All Encompassing Mortgage and Real Estate Thread

[Wulaw Horn 19,068]

Now we are up 134. Divided government and a decent inflation report is going to do a metric shit ton to make the bond markets feel a lot better. 
I might or might not be using tears of joy as a lubricant right now. 

[Neonmoon 38,129]

44 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

MBS market up 104 points right now. Best morning in 2023. 
great inflation report today looks like we might have turned the corner. 

[Wulaw Horn 19,068]

8 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

Ha. Well, you know. Maybe. That’s a strong morning. 

[UTPhil2006 3,806]

10 year down 0.28 😳😍

[Wulaw Horn 19,068]

35 minutes ago, UTPhil2006 said:

10 year down 0.28 😳😍

Does it feel like the storm clouds parted and the sun is poking out for the first time in 6 months over there right now? 
that’s my feeling. 

[LCHorn 2,615]

Haha, this is what I get for locking a loan at 4:50 pm yesterday.  I figured the market had likely priced in the news already, oops…

[UTPhil2006 3,806]

45 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Does it feel like the storm clouds parted and the sun is poking out for the first time in 6 months over there right now? 
that’s my feeling. 

Just like a no hitter I’m not saying shit. Just keeping an eye on it. 

[smoothlonghorn 83]

Going to pretend like I don't notice...well, other than people sure to blow us up about "float downs"....

[LCHorn 2,615]

1 hour ago, smoothlonghorn said:

Going to pretend like I don't notice...well, other than people sure to blow us up about "float downs"....

UFCU stole one from us two weeks ago when the market improved by 50 bps two days after we had come to terms and locked the loan.  They offered a free float down which is what sealed the deal, grumble, grumble.  

[UTPhil2006 3,806]

52 minutes ago, LCHorn said:

UFCU stole one from us two weeks ago when the market improved by 50 bps two days after we had come to terms and locked the loan.  They offered a free float down which is what sealed the deal, grumble, grumble.  

Dang. Also why I’m happy we broker you several lenders. I would have just flipped it over to another lender and beat UFCU 

[UTPhil2006 3,806]

Thad's flip home just went live this morning.. 3 acres in Leander.

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/145-Lakewood-Trl-Leander-TX-78641/29537346_zpid/

 

 

[52-80 19,147]

On 9/7/2022 at 11:17 AM, 52-80 said:

i hadnt increased the rent on my tenant for 3 years, and it already started below market when I offered to him.

was gonna send a notice of increase when he made unsolicited proposal to buy the place instead.  numbers will come later.  i think i wanna do it...but dont wanna take the tax hit

after very lengthy prefaces guy finally offers up a number and its an utter and complete lowball. 
 

i countered. then because he works in an investment bank with bloomberg terminal access hes sending me all sorts of macro charts trying to convince me where the interest rates ~= housing market is headed next. 
 

my brother in christ, im only concerned about the my property’s price relative to the market as it exists today. 

[Mother mopar 3,318]

after very lengthy prefaces guy finally offers up a number and its an utter and complete lowball. 
 
i countered. then because he works in an investment bank with bloomberg terminal access hes sending me all sorts of macro charts trying to convince me where the interest rates ~= housing market is headed next. 
 
my brother in christ, im only concerned about the my property’s price relative to the market as it exists today. 

So you're raising the rent, lol

[smoothlonghorn 83]

Anybody else finding it much more difficult to get AUS approvals for Commissioned employees? That is pretty much our only option (A/E), so if anyone has any thoughts for >700 score, trying to get 5% down, $650,000 purchase price, greatly appreciated. Borrower is grossing around ~$20K/month, but with a couple of large auto payments is at ~46% DTI (we did everything feasible to get to ~ 42% and still couldn't get A/E).

[LCHorn 2,615]

56 minutes ago, smoothlonghorn said:

Anybody else finding it much more difficult to get AUS approvals for Commissioned employees? That is pretty much our only option (A/E), so if anyone has any thoughts for >700 score, trying to get 5% down, $650,000 purchase price, greatly appreciated. Borrower is grossing around ~$20K/month, but with a couple of large auto payments is at ~46% DTI (we did everything feasible to get to ~ 42% and still couldn't get A/E).

I would bullshit the income to get the DTI down to no higher than 45% just to be sure it’s income related (obviously you can’t submit it that way).  If you already this and I’m unclear from your description then report that back.  
 

Have you considered non-QM?

[smoothlonghorn 83]

Yeah, we tried a few different ways/options to get to 40-45%, but mostly with paying off/excluding debts, which I think the AUSs also don't like. I think it is the Commission/ "variable" income, which I have had issues with before.

RE: non-QM--that is actually why I posted it here = we don't really have access, so I was hoping something in one of those programs would jump out to someone on here (trying to help the Buyer out).

[LCHorn 2,615]

3 minutes ago, smoothlonghorn said:

Yeah, we tried a few different ways/options to get to 40-45%, but mostly with paying off/excluding debts, which I think the AUSs also don't like. I think it is the Commission/ "variable" income, which I have had issues with before.

RE: non-QM--that is actually why I posted it here = we don't really have access, so I was hoping something in one of those programs would jump out to someone on here (trying to help the Buyer out).

Go-to moves for AUS approvals:

1.  Play with the income to improve ratios

2.  Play with the debts (exclude, don’t show as paid off).  
 

3.  Play with assets (doesn’t just help on GUS although the latter loves extra assets)

4.  I know we all hate it but try LP

One other idea, presuming you’re not doing this already, is to do an income calc off most recent 24 months rather than most recent plus 2021 and 2020 or however you have it figured (presuming last 10.5 months are superior and help your average).  
 

Fannie will also allow an asset depletion calculation if your borrower has money in savings in sufficient excess it’s helpful.  
 

As far as non-QM, most of them will have a bank statement option and that can be taken to 50%.  There’s also DSCR and no ratio loans (essentially on the collateral) but the borrowers will need to be prepared to put some money down (minimum 25%)

[Neonmoon 38,129]

Your borrower doesn’t want Non-QM rates. 
 

If you think the income is the issue, because it’s commission. Input the income into base and see if it approves.

[Wulaw Horn 19,068]

1 hour ago, Neonmoon said:

Your borrower doesn’t want Non-QM rates. 
 

If you think the income is the issue, because it’s commission. Input the income into base and see if it approves.

That would be my guess as a check to see what the deal might be that’s causing the problem. 
 

I know everyone is bitching about Conventional DU’s but I’ve also had a couple Va’s lately that I’m quite frankly shocked I can’t get a DU thumbs up on, which is very weird to me. Like to the point where I think I’m going to be able to get a manual done. Those are so limited it amazes me whenever the manual is an option that a DU isn’t. 

[StassneyHorn 6,575]

I know this is mostly Texas or California centric, but for the next 5 years, what are thoughts on Memphis or Tulsa?

Tulsa seems more obvious but migration to Tennessee is real to me. Seems like everything is affordable and the eventual drift to secondary cities is gonna happen.

[South Austin 52,459]

8 hours ago, StassneyHorn said:

Tulsa seems more obvious but migration to Tennessee is real to me. Seems like everything is affordable and the eventual drift to secondary cities is gonna happen.

But Josh Huepel is eating all the food supply.

[LCHorn 2,615]

12 hours ago, StassneyHorn said:

I know this is mostly Texas or California centric, but for the next 5 years, what are thoughts on Memphis or Tulsa?

Tulsa seems more obvious but migration to Tennessee is real to me. Seems like everything is affordable and the eventual drift to secondary cities is gonna happen.

I’m not going to profess insider knowledge here but I don’t think either Tulsa or Memphis possesses the kind of cultural cache attractive to the bohemian artist crowd that seems to precede the technologist/urban renewal/white hipster type that pioneer the “boom” an investor is looking for.  
 

I actually think the future is continued accumulation of talent and wealth to super cities.  

[UTPhil2006 3,806]

32 minutes ago, LCHorn said:

I’m not going to profess insider knowledge here but I don’t think either Tulsa or Memphis possesses the kind of cultural cache attractive to the bohemian artist crowd that seems to precede the technologist/urban renewal/white hipster type that pioneer the “boom” an investor is looking for.  
 

I actually think the future is continued accumulation of talent and wealth to super cities.  

This.  I think I'd prefer Memphis to Tulsa but that's just personal preference.

In regards to the above question from Smooth, where have you tried submitting it?  I've found that between all lenders they have different levels of what they like or can provide an exception for depending on their level of current business.  Some are tight and some are bending over backwards.

[UTPhil2006 3,806]

On 11/10/2022 at 9:06 AM, UTPhil2006 said:

10 year down 0.28 😳😍

Down another .17 over since it went down last week. Lowest we've been since first week of October on the 10 year.

[jimmyjazz 45,895]

Tulsa is a weird town.  Downside, it's full of Oklahomans.  Upside, it has some really gorgeous neighborhoods (oil and gas) and does have some culture.

[smoothlonghorn 83]

35 minutes ago, UTPhil2006 said:

In regards to the above question from Smooth, where have you tried submitting it?  I've found that between all lenders they have different levels of what they like or can provide an exception for depending on their level of current business.  Some are tight and some are bending over backwards.

That's the thing--we can only (really) submit it 1 place (I guess if it was a jumbo we might have a couple of options). We were getting a Refer/Caution and Eligible/Caution, but we need an Approve/Eligible or Eligible/Accept for submission. Borrower has already reached out to his Credit Union to see if they could help, but if not, it sounds like it might be worth at least trying a Broker?

[Neonmoon 38,129]

1 hour ago, smoothlonghorn said:

That's the thing--we can only (really) submit it 1 place (I guess if it was a jumbo we might have a couple of options). We were getting a Refer/Caution and Eligible/Caution, but we need an Approve/Eligible or Eligible/Accept for submission. Borrower has already reached out to his Credit Union to see if they could help, but if not, it sounds like it might be worth at least trying a Broker?

The AUS should tell you why it's not being accepted in the findings. 

Just because credit is 700, doesn't mean there aren't other negative aspects of the credit report that make the borrower unable to be accepted. I recently had a borrower with 689 credit that I couldn't get approved conventional unless I dropped the price down 100K because they had too many recent derogatory accounts. Went FHA instead. 

Edited November 16, 2022 by Neonmoon

[CooterBrown 18,004]

On 11/16/2022 at 10:46 AM, jimmyjazz said:

Tulsa is a weird town.  Downside, it's full of Oklahomans.  Upside, it has some really gorgeous neighborhoods (oil and gas) and does have some culture.

Austin and Tulsa have a similar problem.  Tulsa is surrounded by Oklahoma and Austin is surrounded by Texas.

[jimmyjazz 45,895]

Freddie Mac is reported to have seen mortgage rates experience their largest week over week drop in 41 years (7.08% --> 6.61%).  Are you guys in the business seeing it that way?

[LCHorn 2,615]

Well, we’re down 42 bps as of noon today (that’s market deterioration) so congrats Jimmy, you jinxed it 😉

[UTPhil2006 3,806]

39 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Freddie Mac is reported to have seen mortgage rates experience their largest week over week drop in 41 years (7.08% --> 6.61%).  Are you guys in the business seeing it that way?

We skimmed about 50 basis points off the 10 year but have given back about 7 today so compared to Thursday of last week (with Friday’s huge drop and then Tuesday and Wednesday this week) we had a very good week and got us back to where we were about 6 weeks ago. Still a good ways to go but definitely headed in the right direction (for now) 

[Wulaw Horn 19,068]

Shit slammed into a wall and got worse today. Although technically I guess that’s correct (down over the past week) in reality that entire move came on Thursday, Friday was a holiday, then this week has seen negative reaction to most of the news/comments. So, one day anomaly and. It the start of a trend (yet) is the read from here. Still way worse than as recently as August, for example. 

[Neonmoon 38,129]

Bullard took a piss on the rally but yeah, it was a huge drop

[LCHorn 2,615]

Btw, this might be more appropriate on the inflation thread but I’m listening to the Eurodollar podcast from Monday and they were talking about post “high” Fed market reaction (I.e., Powell sees the markets react favorably to the CPI, presuming the Fed pivot is imminent, and immediately finds a microphone so he can threaten a Fed fund rate of 7% and scare the markets back down).  
 

Anyway, it was ironic because that appears exactly what happened today.  
 

One other interesting note from the same podcast was that if the inflation rate reduction going forward matches the past three months then we should be back to low 2’s by summer.  

[Wulaw Horn 19,068]

2 hours ago, LCHorn said:

Btw, this might be more appropriate on the inflation thread but I’m listening to the Eurodollar podcast from Monday and they were talking about post “high” Fed market reaction (I.e., Powell sees the markets react favorably to the CPI, presuming the Fed pivot is imminent, and immediately finds a microphone so he can threaten a Fed fund rate of 7% and scare the markets back down).  
 

Anyway, it was ironic because that appears exactly what happened today.  
 

One other interesting note from the same podcast was that if the inflation rate reduction going forward matches the past three months then we should be back to low 2’s by summer.  

If the interest rate move we got happens every month we should be back to where we want to be in interest rates in 6-8 months. 

[tx 3 putt 76,880]

On 11/15/2022 at 9:08 PM, StassneyHorn said:

I know this is mostly Texas or California centric, but for the next 5 years, what are thoughts on Memphis or Tulsa?

Tulsa seems more obvious but migration to Tennessee is real to me. Seems like everything is affordable and the eventual drift to secondary cities is gonna happen.

Tulsa >>> Memphis 

Tulsa has a little vibe. Memphis vibe is ‘try not to be stabbed’ 

[StassneyHorn 6,575]

8 hours ago, CooterBrown said:

Austin and Tulsa have a similar problem.  Tulsa is surrounded by Oklahoma and Austin is surrounded by Texas.

Yea I’m trying to move around and see alot of the US now that I can work remote, and just rent my place to my sister in Austin. Tulsa is paying 10k to remote workers to come to the area. Morgantown WV had a similar program but for 12k and free outdoor rec rentals. Nw Arkansas has a similar program at 10k.

https://tulsaremote.com

https://findingnwa.com/incentive/

https://ascendwv.com

I liked Tulsa cause I know theirs a good bit of O&G workers up there plus I knew a bunch of Ok St people who love Tulsa and can attract college educated people as well so it might have a longer shelf life.

 

1 hour ago, tx 3 putt said:

Tulsa >>> Memphis 

Tulsa has a little vibe. Memphis vibe is ‘try not to be stabbed’ 

I love that vibe tho 

[CooterBrown 18,004]

53 minutes ago, StassneyHorn said:

Yea I’m trying to move around and see alot of the US now that I can work remote, and just rent my place to my sister in Austin. Tulsa is paying 10k to remote workers to come to the area. Morgantown WV had a similar program but for 12k and free outdoor rec rentals. Nw Arkansas has a similar program at 10k.

https://tulsaremote.com

https://findingnwa.com/incentive/

https://ascendwv.com

I liked Tulsa cause I know theirs a good bit of O&G workers up there plus I knew a bunch of Ok St people who love Tulsa and can attract college educated people as well so it might have a longer shelf life.

 

I love that vibe tho 

In Tulsa, if you stay in Midtown and downtown, you will have a great time. It’s easy AF to get around and there’s plenty of restaurants, bars, and music venues.
 

I’ve spent a disturbingly large amount of time there…MON-THU for 6 years and probably 6 weeks a year for the past 5 years. What’s crazy is how much it’s improved in the last decade. When I first started going there in ‘10, downtown was dead, a glorified office park.  Now there’s a ton of stuff down there. 

[Neonmoon 38,129]

Realtors that promote themselves as local and refer out of state lenders are dicks. 
 

[Gil Bang 25,922]

23 hours ago, Neonmoon said:

Realtors that promote themselves as local and refer out of state lenders are dicks. 
 

 

Oh Indeed 

/Omar

 

Edited November 21, 2022 by Gil Bang

[HRSchenker 2,268]

On 11/17/2022 at 9:05 PM, CooterBrown said:

In Tulsa, if you stay in Midtown and downtown, you will have a great time. It’s easy AF to get around and there’s plenty of restaurants, bars, and music venues.
 

I’ve spent a disturbingly large amount of time there…MON-THU for 6 years and probably 6 weeks a year for the past 5 years. What’s crazy is how much it’s improved in the last decade. When I first started going there in ‘10, downtown was dead, a glorified office park.  Now there’s a ton of stuff down there. 

Tulsa is a very underrated city. Lots of neat food places and bars with a growing number of UT alum moving there. I was there in 2013 and you could tell it was on the verge of being a boom town. Got to visit again this year for the Oklahoma State weekend and had a blast.

[Okie State 3,816]

Interesting to see the positive comments on Tulsa. I grew up close by and always thought it would be a nice place to live if you wanted a city, but not the bullshit that comes with big cities. It's much better now than it was when I lived in the area. There are some really cool older neighborhoods with unique homes that are reasonably affordable.

[UTPhil2006 3,806]

Nothing crazy or earth shattering on what’s normally a slow week (especially tomorrow) but down .06 today to 3.76. Approaching 2 month lows. Not a huge deal but figured any good news is worth notating. 

[bluto 4,915]

Where’s the black and neon chart WU?!

[Wulaw Horn 19,068]

45 minutes ago, bluto said:

Where’s the black and neon chart WU?!

I was gone last week and fucking around with kid stuff this week. Will get one up tomorrow. 

[jimmyjazz 45,895]

4 hours ago, UTPhil2006 said:

Nothing crazy or earth shattering on what’s normally a slow week (especially tomorrow) but down .06 today to 3.76. Approaching 2 month lows. Not a huge deal but figured any good news is worth notating. 

So that's down almost a half point from the worst 10-yr yield, maybe 4 weeks ago?  Did I google that correctly?

[UTPhil2006 3,806]

16 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

So that's down almost a half point from the worst 10-yr yield, maybe 4 weeks ago?  Did I google that correctly?

Correct. 58 basis points off the 4.33 high we hit right at 4 weeks ago. 

[UTPhil2006 3,806]

Down another .05 to 3.70 to close after the Fed minutes today. 

[UTPhil2006 3,806]

On 11/23/2022 at 3:07 PM, UTPhil2006 said:

Down another .05 to 3.70 to close after the Fed minutes today. 

And basically flat half day as to be expected today. All in all a good week/10 days 

[ChickenSandwich 9,829]

Anyone have any experience with June Homes?  They reached out to a friend who is renting his home out in Austin. Ive never heard of them. Deal seems too good to be true. Guaranteed rent, full service lease/maintenance at their cost. All reviews online are from the renter, not landlord side, and most deal with apartments in large cities.  Its short term leasing with a minimum of 1 month. 
 

Trying to find out what the catch is.