All Encompassing Mortgage and Real Estate Thread

[Gravy Train 974]

30 minutes ago, Gil Bang said:

Yeah sure.  Realtors built and maintain the MLS, and pay for access ($640/yr in my case) but any swinging dick should be able to obtain all of the MLS information for free!

 

Okay, so when I'm looking online (whilst notifying my agent of properties I find interesting), what should I think of shit like this, other than 🚩 from a seller I likely won't want to deal with?  (old example in the following snip)

 

[Wulaw Horn 19,153]

1 minute ago, jimmyjazz said:

Always love the "impacted by layoffs", "affected by layoffs", "reduction in force" mumbo jumbo.

You fired them.

Eh- I tend to think of firing as personal and because someone fucked up while layoff means caught up in the gears of the machinery.  I don't mind that distinction and on some level it probably is helpful for the person who is dismissed from the job to internalize as "not my fault"

[jimmyjazz 46,206]

I've been laid off twice after (a) budget cuts by the state and (b) a takeover by a bigger company.

I consider myself having been fired both times.  Your mileage may vary.  Ultimately, I landed "up" both times so I certainly don't care, but the fact remains that business BS like "affected by layoffs" is horribly transparent verbiage.  I mean, just say "laid off" at the very least.

[gmr548 16,617]

Wouldn't it be cool if the buyer had access to that information without asking their realtor for it, or even before considering the property for an offer? 
Although I'd imagine any good realtor shares such background with their client before submitting an offer.  I haven't transacted since 2018, when shit seemed sensical and one could FSBO with a good RE atty and local title office.

I mean, in most states sale prices are public record and listing activity is visible from any of the third party listing sites.

[Neonmoon 38,130]

You don't need the MLS for sales price. Go to Zillow and do your own comps. Just make sure they are like and similar, sold within last 12 months, and within a mile 

[royiv 9,373]

Just now, Neonmoon said:

You don't need the MLS for sales price. Go to Zillow and do your own comps. Just make sure they are like and similar, sold within last 12 months, and within a mile 

 

3 minutes ago, gmr548 said:

I mean, in most states sale prices are public record and listing activity is visible from any of the third party listing sites.

Texas is a non-disclosure state.

[Gil Bang 26,045]

34 minutes ago, Gravy Train said:

Okay, so when I'm looking online (whilst notifying my agent of properties I find interesting), what should I think of shit like this, other than 🚩 from a seller I likely won't want to deal with?  (old example in the following snip)

 

You should notify your agent that a property interests you, and let him do the research.

[Catpfish 618]

42 minutes ago, Gravy Train said:

Okay, so when I'm looking online (whilst notifying my agent of properties I find interesting), what should I think of shit like this, other than 🚩 from a seller I likely won't want to deal with?  (old example in the following snip)

 

Short answer, without knowing shit about fuck as to the specific property, it looks like you have sellers that missed the market.  They overpriced thinking they'd make a killing and the reality slowly dawned, resulting in small price decreases.  Probably should have been listed somewhere around the price when it was pulled off the market.  End result is the house got a stank put on it by listing it way too high and people will begin to question what is wrong with the house.

 

 

[Chewbacca 7,787]

51 minutes ago, Gravy Train said:

Okay, so when I'm looking online (whilst notifying my agent of properties I find interesting), what should I think of shit like this, other than 🚩 from a seller I likely won't want to deal with?  (old example in the following snip)

 

I wouldn't even bother with that property unless you're willing to come in at (or very close) to ask.  That says that seller is delusional.

[gmr548 16,617]

Texas is a non-disclosure state.

No shit. Note the qualifier, “in most states…”

[royiv 9,373]

23 minutes ago, gmr548 said:

No shit. Note the qualifier, “in most states…”

Sorry for attempting to be helpful, Mr. Vague Tough Guy.

[Gil Bang 26,045]

49 minutes ago, Catpfish said:

Short answer, without knowing shit about fuck as to the specific property, it looks like you have sellers that missed the market.  They overpriced thinking they'd make a killing and the reality slowly dawned, resulting in small price decreases.  Probably should have been listed somewhere around the price when it was pulled off the market.  End result is the house got a stank put on it by listing it way too high and people will begin to question what is wrong with the house.

 

 

When I listed that oceanfront deal, the owner asked me what it was worth.  I told him 1.1-1.15.  He told me to price it at 1.39.  It was never worth that, but that's what I had to do to get the listing; a listing that I needed BAD.   So, I overpriced it, and a week later, the seller asks "what's the feedback" and I answer "it's overpriced".  

So, we reduced the price and sold the fucker.  

[Upgrayedd 5,821]

7 hours ago, Gravy Train said:

it's worse elsewhere, where 10% of recent buyers are already underwater on their mortgages.

Shocked that people that put down minimal equity/down payment in the past year have seen that disappear.

Not shocked actually.

[Captainant 27,809]

5 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

Always love the "impacted by layoffs", "affected by layoffs", "reduction in force" mumbo jumbo.

You fired them.

Bro do you even corporate weasel speak 

[jimmyjazz 46,206]

13 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Bro do you even corporate weasel speak 

Oh, I speak it well, but whenever I was directed to "reduce" John Doe I would be very blunt:  "John, we're laying you off", followed by

 

[Neonmoon 38,130]

5 hours ago, royiv said:

 

Texas is a non-disclosure state.

I don’t live in Texas, but point taken. 

My county actually provides an amazing comp tool. Click of a button, it pulls up all properties that are comps in a 1 mile radius sold within the last year. You can even modify the search parameters. No MLS needed. And it has sold price 

[hornian 5,224]

On 4/12/2023 at 10:49 PM, Gil Bang said:

FWIW, my last closed deal was a waterfront condo in San Diego County for 1,125,000.  It was all-cash, and will be a 2nd home for a young couple (with a toddler and an infant).

My current deal which will close next week, is a block from the beach in San Diego County, the price is 832,500, my buyers are putting 600K down, and it will be a 2nd home for a couple with 3 teenage kids.

How do I become wealthy enough to become one of your clients? I already have the multiple kids. Now just need the cash. 

[Catpfish 618]

From reading this thread, I think it involves lots and lots of ZJs

[UTPhil2006 3,817]

8 minutes ago, Catpfish said:

From reading this thread, I think it involves lots and lots of ZJs

[Wulaw Horn 19,153]

So, this is pretty cool (I think- maybe it ends up sucking), I just got brought on to AIME (association of independent mortgage experts- basically read brokers as opposed to retail lenders) as the Advocacy State Captain for Texas.  

Job descriptions include blah blah blah blah blah. But, should be able to get meetings with state reps and US Congress reps to talk about concerns in the Mortgage industry in general and broker in particular as well as lobbying efforts on bills, advocating for brokers- and informing brokers of what's going on legislatively, taking their temperature and letting national board know what the feedback is and letting legislatures know how our broker community feels.  

Seems like it could be pretty cool.  If you have anything you want me to let state or federal reps know and you are in the business hit me up- or drop me a PM.  

I will probably occasionally post some stuff that we distribute or calls for feedback or the like on here for the mortgage professionals.

Also- if you are an agent involved with TREPAC or title involved with TLTA let me know if you have anything you'd like our help on. Our interests aren't exactly the same but they are often aligned and I'd be happy to help yall push anything that is aligned with what our membership wants.

The best part is the pay- I think its only going to cost me a couple grand a year to do this job! No budget for travel or anything like that. But, I do get a "free" T-Shirt.

[Gil Bang 26,045]

52 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

So, this is pretty cool (I think- maybe it ends up sucking), I just got brought on to AIME (association of independent mortgage experts- basically read brokers as opposed to retail lenders) as the Advocacy State Captain for Texas.  

Job descriptions include blah blah blah blah blah. But, should be able to get meetings with state reps and US Congress reps to talk about concerns in the Mortgage industry in general and broker in particular as well as lobbying efforts on bills, advocating for brokers- and informing brokers of what's going on legislatively, taking their temperature and letting national board know what the feedback is and letting legislatures know how our broker community feels.  

Seems like it could be pretty cool.  If you have anything you want me to let state or federal reps know and you are in the business hit me up- or drop me a PM.  

I will probably occasionally post some stuff that we distribute or calls for feedback or the like on here for the mortgage professionals.

Also- if you are an agent involved with TREPAC or title involved with TLTA let me know if you have anything you'd like our help on. Our interests aren't exactly the same but they are often aligned and I'd be happy to help yall push anything that is aligned with what our membership wants.

The best part is the pay- I think its only going to cost me a couple grand a year to do this job! No budget for travel or anything like that. But, I do get a "free" T-Shirt.

At least the T shirt won't be XXXL

[UTPhil2006 3,817]

57 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

So, this is pretty cool (I think- maybe it ends up sucking), I just got brought on to AIME (association of independent mortgage experts- basically read brokers as opposed to retail lenders) as the Advocacy State Captain for Texas.  

Job descriptions include blah blah blah blah blah. But, should be able to get meetings with state reps and US Congress reps to talk about concerns in the Mortgage industry in general and broker in particular as well as lobbying efforts on bills, advocating for brokers- and informing brokers of what's going on legislatively, taking their temperature and letting national board know what the feedback is and letting legislatures know how our broker community feels.  

Seems like it could be pretty cool.  If you have anything you want me to let state or federal reps know and you are in the business hit me up- or drop me a PM.  

I will probably occasionally post some stuff that we distribute or calls for feedback or the like on here for the mortgage professionals.

Also- if you are an agent involved with TREPAC or title involved with TLTA let me know if you have anything you'd like our help on. Our interests aren't exactly the same but they are often aligned and I'd be happy to help yall push anything that is aligned with what our membership wants.

The best part is the pay- I think it’s only going to cost me a couple grand a year to do this job! No budget for travel or anything like that. But, I do get a "free" T-Shirt.

They prob don’t wanna know my list of demands. It’s quite long. 

[Wulaw Horn 19,153]

7 minutes ago, UTPhil2006 said:

They prob don’t wanna know my list of demands. It’s quite long. 

Long and distinguished?  Like my Johnson?  Lay it on me man.  

[Gil Bang 26,045]

My deal has hit a snag. 

The buyer can't find any insurance that will cover a 2nd home.   My insurance guy struck out too.  If it's tenant-occupied, there's no problem, but the 2nd home sitting empty most of the time is a no-go. 

[Neonmoon 38,130]

I’ve done loans for many second homes, including condos, and they all we’re required to get HOI. They all got it. No problem. What am I missing? Is there going to be goat sacrifices? Porn shoots?

[CooterBrown 18,032]

My deal has hit a snag. 

The buyer can't find any insurance that will cover a 2nd home.   My insurance guy struck out too.  If it's tenant-occupied, there's no problem, but the 2nd home sitting empty most of the time is a no-go. 

Can they set it up as a VRBO so it’s “occupied” but just have all the dates blackout?

[Upgrayedd 5,821]

52 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

I’ve done loans for many second homes, including condos, and they all we’re required to get HOI. They all got it. No problem. What am I missing? Is there going to be goat sacrifices? Porn shoots?

It’s in Bakhmut Ukraine 

[KYHorn 17,200]

[Gil Bang 26,045]

4 hours ago, Neonmoon said:

I’ve done loans for many second homes, including condos, and they all we’re required to get HOI. They all got it. No problem. What am I missing? Is there going to be goat sacrifices? Porn shoots?

Here's what the email said (from insurance broker)

 

Foremost restricted condo policies to only accepting as a condo rented out to others.
Travelers, Mercury and Stillwater will only write the second if they insure the primary.
Aegis is not writing Condos.  Kemper is not taking on new business. Nationwide is only taking paper applications (which mean they are not writing new business) and they typically require writing the primary.
Unfortunately I have exhausted the carriers I have access to.  If Gerry wants us to take a look at the primary I am happy to see if I  can get coverage on both.

With it being a secondary location it wil be vacant for part of the time and having the primary and second with the same carrier helps with the Personal Liability portion.  This is one of the reasons why carriers require to hold both properties.
Sorry I  could not have found a carrier still open to writing a stand-alone secondary condo policy.
 

 

[PhillyD 1,257]

I obviously don't know the specifics but I've always heard that obtaining am HO-6 condo policy is easy because so much falls to the master carrier.  I'm interested to hear how this turns out.  

[Kwix 2,199]

Another question...

 

Thinking about a property that would need renovating before moving in, and wondering if there is a type of loan for this sort of scenario.  I know there can be restrictions or penalties for selling shortly after taking out a heloc or cash out refinancing, but it's difficult to find a good answer online.

 

Details:

This is in Texas.

Currently own house A.  700k value, 100k left on mortgage.

No other debt.  Assume highest tier credit and enough income to cover mortgage / taxes / insurance / utilities / etc on both properties for the time it takes to go from step 1 to step 4.

 

Here is what I would like to do.

1) Buy house B for 550k.  Have enough in savings for 20% down.

2) Put about 200k in renovations into house B. 

3) Move into house B. 

4) Sell house A.

5) Use proceeds from house A to pay off loan for renovations.

6) Put most of the remaining proceeds from house A towards house B mortgage.

 

 

[Kwix 2,199]

Just realized that I could have been more clear. 

 

I do not currently have the cash for renovations. Would need to either take out a loan against existing house, or if possible roll that into house B mortgage. 

[Neonmoon 38,130]

1 hour ago, Kwix said:

Another question...

 

Thinking about a property that would need renovating before moving in, and wondering if there is a type of loan for this sort of scenario.  I know there can be restrictions or penalties for selling shortly after taking out a heloc or cash out refinancing, but it's difficult to find a good answer online.

 

Details:

This is in Texas.

Currently own house A.  700k value, 100k left on mortgage.

No other debt.  Assume highest tier credit and enough income to cover mortgage / taxes / insurance / utilities / etc on both properties for the time it takes to go from step 1 to step 4.

 

Here is what I would like to do.

1) Buy house B for 550k.  Have enough in savings for 20% down.

2) Put about 200k in renovations into house B. 

3) Move into house B. 

4) Sell house A.

5) Use proceeds from house A to pay off loan for renovations.

6) Put most of the remaining proceeds from house A towards house B mortgage.

 

 

You can use a Renovation Loan. https://singlefamily.fanniemae.com/originating-underwriting/mortgage-products/homestyle-renovation

If you can provide a lease for House A, you can even do this with primary rates. 
you can’t do any renovations yourself, and a licensed contractor must submit renovations plans before approval. 

Edited April 16, 2023 by Neonmoon

[Wulaw Horn 19,153]

2 hours ago, Kwix said:

Just realized that I could have been more clear. 

 

I do not currently have the cash for renovations. Would need to either take out a loan against existing house, or if possible roll that into house B mortgage. 

Neon nailed one possible loan for sure. Also- check your PM I had a couple questions for another possibility but didn’t want to get into personal details on public area. 

[Gatorubet 30,321]

On 4/15/2023 at 1:40 PM, Neonmoon said:

I’ve done loans for many second homes, including condos, and they all we’re required to get HOI. They all got it. No problem. What am I missing? Is there going to be goat sacrifices? Porn shoots?

Goat porn?

[Gil Bang 26,045]

11 minutes ago, Gatorubet said:

Goat porn?

It's a thing, but you can't access it without an "Ag Tag" issued by Luicci himself. 

[LCHorn 2,632]

3 hours ago, Neonmoon said:

You can use a Renovation Loan. https://singlefamily.fanniemae.com/originating-underwriting/mortgage-products/homestyle-renovation

If you can provide a lease for House A, you can even do this with primary rates. 
you can’t do any renovations yourself, and a licensed contractor must submit renovations plans before approval. 

Echoing Neon, this is a really great product fit for what you describe.  I used to love doing them two banks and six years ago because there’s a lot of process involved so an LO gets to really know the borrower and their project.  Plus, before Covid and GC costs went nuts you could possibly get some cheap equity out of it.  
 

Additionally, the bank will hammer the contractor if they aren’t accountable or miss deadlines on the draw schedule—12 months into a personal remodel and I’d love to have some additional personal leverage on our GC.  

[Neonmoon 38,130]

Renovation Loans are great, but some people don't have the organizational skills to line up a licensed contractor to submit a bid before they can offer on a house. It's also important the contractor is cool with the draw process. In my experience, if you don't get that straight ahead of time, they can be pissed if they don't know they're only getting 50% material draw at close or whatever the loan program allows. 

PSA, always reach out to @Wulaw Horn, @UTPhil2006 or @LCHorn for your Texas lending needs. I'm not licensed in Texas. Just NC, SC, TN, FL, VA

[Wulaw Horn 19,153]

5 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

Renovation Loans are great, but some people don't have the organizational skills to line up a licensed contractor to submit a bid before they can offer on a house. It's also important the contractor is cool with the draw process. In my experience, if you don't get that straight ahead of time, they can be pissed if they don't know they're only getting 50% material draw at close or whatever the loan program allows. 

PSA, always reach out to @Wulaw Horn, @UTPhil2006 or @LCHorn for your Texas lending needs. I'm not licensed in Texas. Just NC, SC, TN, FL, VA

Fuck man- I sent a Tenn loan and a SC loan elsewhere in the past year or so. 
I had you at just NC. 
email me that so I can make a note of it at work in my data base. I’m at hospital with my wife (see bariatric thread- not a big deal) and will forget by the time I get home later this week I’m sure. 
gabekmg@gmail.com 

 

[Gil Bang 26,045]

2 hours ago, Neonmoon said:

Renovation Loans are great, but some people don't have the organizational skills to line up a licensed contractor to submit a bid before they can offer on a house. It's also important the contractor is cool with the draw process. In my experience, if you don't get that straight ahead of time, they can be pissed if they don't know they're only getting 50% material draw at close or whatever the loan program allows. 

PSA, always reach out to @Wulaw Horn, @UTPhil2006 or @LCHorn for your Texas lending needs. I'm not licensed in Texas. Just NC, SC, TN, FL, VA

I spent many years in full-time construction lending, most of it in management. The first thing I did when I went to a new lender was to institute a policy that the GC come in for a pre-construction meeting prior to the loan being closed.  A "this-is-how-this-is-gonna-go" meeting.  I've had a GC bail on the project when he figured out we weren't going to allow him to rob the client in his usual fashion.  I've had countless numbers of them bitch and moan because we were going to interfere with their "Rob Peter to Pay  Paul" business model.  

 

 

[jimmyjazz 46,206]

4 minutes ago, Gil Bang said:

I've had countless numbers of them bitch and moan because we were going to interfere with their "Rob Peter to Pay  Paul" business model.  

I had a GC on a big home expansion hire a subcontractor who worked that angle.  I was naive and bought a few materials from that sub, mostly floor tile.  Then we discovered some of the things we had supplied for the job were missing.

Long story short, that subcontractor spent a couple of years in the pokey.

[Gil Bang 26,045]

I got the manager of a branch of 84 lumber fired.  

Builder had 2 projects going.  I financed one of them.  Both were tracts of 20 homes or so.

My deal was in good shape.  The other deal was in bad shape. He couldn't pay the lumber bill; the lumber company was leaning on him hard, and 84 corporate was  leaning on the branch manager hard.  So, they concocted a brilliant plan.  They would buy loads of lumber, invoice it to my project, and process it as a return from the other project to make the old invoices there go poof. 

I get the invoices, drive out to the site, and don't see the amount of lumber that's supposed to be there, I smell a rat, and I start digging into the other project.  I see a Lien from 84, and see it get released.  I bypass the local yard and contact 84 corporate, tell them that we are getting invoiced for material that isn't delivered, tell them I suspect that the other project is involved, and we figured out the scheme together. 

[Wulaw Horn 19,153]

18 minutes ago, Gil Bang said:

I got the manager of a branch of 84 lumber fired.  

Builder had 2 projects going.  I financed one of them.  Both were tracts of 20 homes or so.

My deal was in good shape.  The other deal was in bad shape. He couldn't pay the lumber bill; the lumber company was leaning on him hard, and 84 corporate was  leaning on the branch manager hard.  So, they concocted a brilliant plan.  They would buy loads of lumber, invoice it to my project, and process it as a return from the other project to make the old invoices there go poof. 

I get the invoices, drive out to the site, and don't see the amount of lumber that's supposed to be there, I smell a rat, and I start digging into the other project.  I see a Lien from 84, and see it get released.  I bypass the local yard and contact 84 corporate, tell them that we are getting invoiced for material that isn't delivered, tell them I suspect that the other project is involved, and we figured out the scheme together. 

I would have gotten away with it if it wasn’t for you meddling kids. 

[HamsterHookah 112]

Man, a friend was telling me that a 810+ credit score, with $200k down on an average home ($500k) on a 30 year was, at best, in the high 5's interest rate.

Brutal out there for those of us wanting to get back in the low 2's.

Are those days gone forever?

[Incredulity 11,683]

17 minutes ago, HamsterHookah said:

the low 2's.

[Surly Bevo 25,167]

[UTPhil2006 3,817]

Barring some unforeseen global disaster I don’t think we see 2’s. Long term we may get back into the 3’s. And yeah right now we’re in the 5’s

[Wulaw Horn 19,153]

17 minutes ago, UTPhil2006 said:

Barring some unforeseen global disaster I don’t think we see 2’s. Long term we may get back into the 3’s. And yeah right now we’re in the 5’s

You check the market yet today?  5's seems like something from last Wednesday or so.  National Average today is 6.61 as of right now. 

Yeah- I think high 3's is what the low will be absent black swan event.  

[UT_OB1 2,225]

1 hour ago, UTPhil2006 said:

Barring some unforeseen global disaster I don’t think we see 2’s. Long term we may get back into the 3’s. And yeah right now we’re in the 5’s

 

1 hour ago, Wulaw Horn said:

You check the market yet today?  5's seems like something from last Wednesday or so.  National Average today is 6.61 as of right now. 

Yeah- I think high 3's is what the low will be absent black swan event.  

Expecting 2s on a 30 year seems unrealistic based on 50 years of historical data, no?  Even 3% seems very much an outlier 

Edited April 17, 2023 by UT_OB1

[Wulaw Horn 19,153]

12 minutes ago, UT_OB1 said:

 

Expecting 2s on a 30 year seems unrealistic based on 50 years of historical data, no?  Even 3% seems very much an outlier 

Yes- this is all true. But, I still expect to see a borrower or two at least in a 30 year mortgage at 3.9 or something like that at a minimum during my career. I don’t even expect to see 2.X again on a 30 fixed.