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Posted
9 hours ago, 52-80 said:

Wondering what you guys would do in this situation:

A few years ago I enlisted an agent to rent out my house. He found my current tenant. The first time I raised the rent, the tenant proactively offered to buy my house (at a low-ball price). We declined and just extended the lease. Last year, I told him I am extending lease for the final time and would sell the house afterwards; he made no indication of interest to buy. 

Recently I talked to the agent to ask about selling the house. We shook hands on him putting it on the market this summer when the lease ends. He said he would also ask the tenant if hes interested (or if he needs help looking for a property).  

….well now the tenant just got back to me directly, saying he wants to buy the house directly (at a very fair price). and suggested the agent doesnt need to be involved to save cost. 

The standard procedure in this market is 3.6% agents fee payable by the buyer. Its completely true that agent is not doing anything here - no listing, hosting, etc. But I feel obligated to him out of a sense of ethics.

I’m thinking if we skip him out of the process, I buy the guy an Omega watch or something as a ‘serious’ business gift? Is that fair? 

 

You shook on the deal.  What's your word worth to you?   Any reasonable agent knows that you can 100% not pay him a dime and get away with it, but, what's your word worth to you?

3 hours ago, royiv said:

The fact that this is unusual enough that you came here to post about it is exactly why realtors get a bad name. Every time I’ve sold a house, I’ve never let the listing agent put it on lockbox and I require that they are present at every showing. If I’m paying you $50k to sell my home, you need to do your job. Marketing a home shouldn’t be putting pictures up on MLS, hanging a lockbox and putting a sign in the yard.

Now, do the math when the commission is $6,000 instead of $50,000.  Do you expect the same level of service?  

Who gives the better blowjob...the hooker that you meet at the bar at The Bellagio that charges $500, or the one that you pick up on the corner in the ghetto that charges $20? 

Posted
27 minutes ago, Gil Bang said:

You shook on the deal.  What's your word worth to you?   Any reasonable agent knows that you can 100% not pay him a dime and get away with it, but, what's your word worth to you?

Now, do the math when the commission is $6,000 instead of $50,000.  Do you expect the same level of service?  

Who gives the better blowjob...the hooker that you meet at the bar at The Bellagio that charges $500, or the one that you pick up on the corner in the ghetto that charges $20? 

You should direct that question to Hugh Grant.

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Posted
43 minutes ago, Gil Bang said:

You shook on the deal.  What's your word worth to you?   Any reasonable agent knows that you can 100% not pay him a dime and get away with it, but, what's your word worth to you?

Now, do the math when the commission is $6,000 instead of $50,000.  Do you expect the same level of service?  

Who gives the better blowjob...the hooker that you meet at the bar at The Bellagio that charges $500, or the one that you pick up on the corner in the ghetto that charges $20? 

Well from an experience standpoint... you have to go with the $20 service provider. 

Posted
1 hour ago, Gil Bang said:

You shook on the deal.  What's your word worth to you?   Any reasonable agent knows that you can 100% not pay him a dime and get away with it, but, what's your word worth to you?

Now, do the math when the commission is $6,000 instead of $50,000.  Do you expect the same level of service?  

Who gives the better blowjob...the hooker that you meet at the bar at The Bellagio that charges $500, or the one that you pick up on the corner in the ghetto that charges $20? 

What difference does it make? You should provide the same level of service no matter the price point. If you want to get the $2 million listing, provide the same level of service on my $200k listing.

Posted

I’d be interested to hear long time agents and mortgage people to comment on the following scenario. 

Assume the economy goes into a recession in the next six months, with significant job losses. Not as bad as 2002 but close. Also assume Fed rates drop from 4.3 percent to 3 percent in six months, leading to significantly lower mortgage rates. 

What happens to home prices starting at the beginning of the job losses for the next 24 months? Up? Down? A lot? A little?
 

Posted
8 hours ago, Dbeasy said:

I’d be interested to hear long time agents and mortgage people to comment on the following scenario. 

Assume the economy goes into a recession in the next six months, with significant job losses. Not as bad as 2002 but close. Also assume Fed rates drop from 4.3 percent to 3 percent in six months, leading to significantly lower mortgage rates. 

What happens to home prices starting at the beginning of the job losses for the next 24 months? Up? Down? A lot? A little?
 

Down. 
A little. 

Posted
10 hours ago, Dbeasy said:

I’d be interested to hear long time agents and mortgage people to comment on the following scenario. 

Assume the economy goes into a recession in the next six months, with significant job losses. Not as bad as 2002 but close. Also assume Fed rates drop from 4.3 percent to 3 percent in six months, leading to significantly lower mortgage rates. 

What happens to home prices starting at the beginning of the job losses for the next 24 months? Up? Down? A lot? A little?
 

Lower rates would unlock mobility for those who are "trapped" in existing low rates they do not want to part with.  This would bring some additional supply into the existing home market.  Despite overall supply being low.  However if there are a large amount of layoffs that means that consumer confidence will fall or worse on the job losses and dire economic outlook.  Low consumer confidence means a pullback from larger purchases of all types.  

Prices will recede. As lower prices combined with lower interest rates will be necessary to incentivize buyers to take the plunge on a purchase that recently they have seen depreciate rather than appreciate of late.

Posted
On 2/22/2025 at 8:45 AM, 52-80 said:

Thats what i ballpark the watch is for. 

income taxes are really high in this market, and doing cash is kinda icky for me. I figured a fancy watch is worth the seatdown meeting we had and he can flip it for cash if he wants to. 

Somewhere upthread, i detailed my last home sale and how we found an agent whose (at least partial) business model was to list on MLS and other sites, provide yard sign, and write up contracts.  He would set up showings if contacted by a realtor but not do anything to facilitate, would forward non-represented inquiries to us directly. The charge for this service was something like $500 and 0.5% which worked out to around $2500 for our property. 
 

maybe your agent would be willing to do similar (mostly handling the correct contract documentation if you do have a deal with your tenant). Sounds like he is at a level to be able to do such things- and then be able to convert to a standard listing contract if needed. 

Posted
1 hour ago, Pato del Muerto said:

Somewhere upthread, i detailed my last home sale and how we found an agent whose (at least partial) business model was to list on MLS and other sites, provide yard sign, and write up contracts.  He would set up showings if contacted by a realtor but not do anything to facilitate, would forward non-represented inquiries to us directly. The charge for this service was something like $500 and 0.5% which worked out to around $2500 for our property. 
 

maybe your agent would be willing to do similar (mostly handling the correct contract documentation if you do have a deal with your tenant). Sounds like he is at a level to be able to do such things- and then be able to convert to a standard listing contract if needed. 

Financially this is not a bad deal. It’s actually a good deal. What goes thru my mind is the person willing to do this work for that fee level.

They really can’t afford to spend very much time on the house. So you’d have to make sure you figure out the optimum selling price yourself because the analysis they would do is likely to be very limited. 

Plus I would be a little concerned about their ability to recognize major deal risks and address those risks properly. Or, I’d be concerned about them making mistakes. 

If you can get comfortable with all of this, then it’s not a bad option. If I were selling my own house, I think I’d be a little too concerned about competence. However, I’ve sold houses for 1%, which isn’t too much more money, and at that level I can spend the appropriate amount of time on the deal to make sure there are no major financial mistakes or exposures. 
 

Posted
4 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

Financially this is not a bad deal. It’s actually a good deal. What goes thru my mind is the person willing to do this work for that fee level.

They really can’t afford to spend very much time on the house. So you’d have to make sure you figure out the optimum selling price yourself because the analysis they would do is likely to be very limited. 

Plus I would be a little concerned about their ability to recognize major deal risks and address those risks properly. Or, I’d be concerned about them making mistakes. 

If you can get comfortable with all of this, then it’s not a bad option. If I were selling my own house, I think I’d be a little too concerned about competence. However, I’ve sold houses for 1%, which isn’t too much more money, and at that level I can spend the appropriate amount of time on the deal to make sure there are no major financial mistakes or exposures. 
 

None of that is within the scope of work being agreed to for that feel level.  I’m taking the risk. I think he did provide some comparable sales for our use but I’m sure it was just a geofenced list and he didn’t do any work to learn of any quirkiness or uniqueness of our property or neighborhood. 

Posted
28 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

None of that is within the scope of work being agreed to for that feel level.  I’m taking the risk. I think he did provide some comparable sales for our use but I’m sure it was just a geofenced list and he didn’t do any work to learn of any quirkiness or uniqueness of our property or neighborhood. 

Got it. If you are comfortable with the risks that’s a great way to go. 

Posted
22 hours ago, royiv said:

What difference does it make? You should provide the same level of service no matter the price point. If you want to get the $2 million listing, provide the same level of service on my $200k listing.

A few years ago, a top Los Angeles agent got a huge listing.  A multi-million dollar house (I don't remember the particulars).  He hired a Hollywood film crew and a handful of models to make a video ad for the home.  He spend 40,000 or so on the video ad.   

 

Should he have done the same for a $400,000 house in Pacoima? 

Posted
16 minutes ago, Gil Bang said:

A few years ago, a top Los Angeles agent got a huge listing.  A multi-million dollar house (I don't remember the particulars).  He hired a Hollywood film crew and a handful of models to make a video ad for the home.  He spend 40,000 or so on the video ad.   

 

Should he have done the same for a $400,000 house in Pacoima? 

I’m guessing he wouldn’t be taking a 400k listing. Last time I checked, realtors can pick and choose their listings. 

Posted
12 hours ago, royiv said:

I’m guessing he wouldn’t be taking a 400k listing. Last time I checked, realtors can pick and choose their listings. 

Unless the seller had unreasonable demands, of course he would. 
 

$400k seller may be his $5 million dollar buyer in 5 years. 

Posted
49 minutes ago, UTPhil2006 said:

10 year down .07 so far today. Down .25 last 7 days. Getting close to early December lows 

Broke through the 4.3xx barrier. Last time was Dec 10. Heading away from 5.0 not towards it 

Posted

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/housing-contract-activity-sinks-to-all-time-low-in-january-amid-high-rates-cold-weather-150240405.html

We started calling our seller listings this morning. A few of the listings are vacant, or in estates. A lot of these folks want 2020-2021 prices for these homes, so basically the same price as when interest rates were 3%. It ain't gonna happen. They want to cut a fat hog, and get double, or triple what they initially paid for the property. Priced right, the homes will have a contract within a week.

I think we are about to see a market correction on homes that were bought over ten years ago. The greed is finally going to be bled out of people. Forget $300k worth of profit, take your $100k and be content. Housing prices doubled in 2020-2021, and interest rates have now doubled. It isn't sustainable. This is finally going to give first time home buyers, middle income, and the youngs some relief. I can see this adversely effecting new home sales though. Building costs, in my neighborhood have now reached $225/sqft., not including land cost. 2300 sqft. homes are about $500k.

CHIEF

Posted
14 minutes ago, CHIEF said:

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/housing-contract-activity-sinks-to-all-time-low-in-january-amid-high-rates-cold-weather-150240405.html

We started calling our seller listings this morning. A few of the listings are vacant, or in estates. A lot of these folks want 2020-2021 prices for these homes, so basically the same price as when interest rates were 3%. It ain't gonna happen. They want to cut a fat hog, and get double, or triple what they initially paid for the property. Priced right, the homes will have a contract within a week.

I think we are about to see a market correction on homes that were bought over ten years ago. The greed is finally going to be bled out of people. Forget $300k worth of profit, take your $100k and be content. Housing prices doubled in 2020-2021, and interest rates have now doubled. It isn't sustainable. This is finally going to give first time home buyers, middle income, and the youngs some relief. I can see this adversely effecting new home sales though. Building costs, in my neighborhood have now reached $225/sqft., not including land cost. 2300 sqft. homes are about $500k.

CHIEF

My hangup on the market ‘reopening’ is where do the buyers come from? Has the buyer pool (younger generation) expanded in recent yrs? 

Posted
5 minutes ago, bluto said:

My hangup on the market ‘reopening’ is where do the buyers come from? Has the buyer pool (younger generation) expanded in recent yrs? 

From the folks that can't qualify to purchase a home at the current prices (first timers, middle class, young people). When the market corrects, and that $450k house has been on the market for 22 months, and has had a dozen price drops is suddenly back to a realistic value of $295k. The owner only paid $225k, so he is still making a profit. Sellers are going to have to accept a declining market, or they will have that millstone for a lot longer than they want. Some sellers are receptive, some aren't. We have a house at $760k, that is the most valuable property in a mediocre subdivision, he wants $760k, it won't bring more than $650k. Put it on the market two weeks ago, hasn't had a single call or showing. People are going to have to get realistic. That takes time, but it is coming. The people that bought in 2020-2021 are going to get taken to the cleaners, they shouldn't move unless it is absolutely necessary.

CHIEF

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Posted
On 2/28/2025 at 8:44 AM, CHIEF said:

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/housing-contract-activity-sinks-to-all-time-low-in-january-amid-high-rates-cold-weather-150240405.html

We started calling our seller listings this morning. A few of the listings are vacant, or in estates. A lot of these folks want 2020-2021 prices for these homes, so basically the same price as when interest rates were 3%. It ain't gonna happen. They want to cut a fat hog, and get double, or triple what they initially paid for the property. Priced right, the homes will have a contract within a week.

I think we are about to see a market correction on homes that were bought over ten years ago. The greed is finally going to be bled out of people. Forget $300k worth of profit, take your $100k and be content. Housing prices doubled in 2020-2021, and interest rates have now doubled. It isn't sustainable. This is finally going to give first time home buyers, middle income, and the youngs some relief. I can see this adversely effecting new home sales though. Building costs, in my neighborhood have now reached $225/sqft., not including land cost. 2300 sqft. homes are about $500k.

CHIEF

Real estate is local.  In certain parts of California, 2300 sq foot is 2.3 mil

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Posted
On 2/28/2025 at 11:01 AM, bluto said:

My hangup on the market ‘reopening’ is where do the buyers come from? Has the buyer pool (younger generation) expanded in recent yrs? 

Yes. Ton of pent up demand in millennial cohort. Like- historic levels right now. If affordability wasn’t a thing. 

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Posted
On 2/28/2025 at 11:19 AM, CHIEF said:

From the folks that can't qualify to purchase a home at the current prices (first timers, middle class, young people). When the market corrects, and that $450k house has been on the market for 22 months, and has had a dozen price drops is suddenly back to a realistic value of $295k. The owner only paid $225k, so he is still making a profit. Sellers are going to have to accept a declining market, or they will have that millstone for a lot longer than they want. Some sellers are receptive, some aren't. We have a house at $760k, that is the most valuable property in a mediocre subdivision, he wants $760k, it won't bring more than $650k. Put it on the market two weeks ago, hasn't had a single call or showing. People are going to have to get realistic. That takes time, but it is coming. The people that bought in 2020-2021 are going to get taken to the cleaners, they shouldn't move unless it is absolutely necessary.

CHIEF

Do you sometimes simply say, no? That price is unrealistic, and I would be hurting and not helping you by listing at that price.  Wish them the very, very best and tell them you would love to market their home at a price that will bring it off market with a sale.

But in this case they probably do not have to sell.  Thus no need for capitulation.  I don't even consider houses like this legitimate listings. Because if you list a house at a price that will never ever fucking sell at a price remotely close to your asking price. Is it really for sale?  I get that it's impossible to say no to any listing, no matter how stupidly priced.  But the owner is not going to bend on a stupid price, the house is not going to sell, and the agent is going to waste shit ton of time.

They will cut the price eventually. And I wonder if from a sales perspective saying no sometimes in the nicest possible way, might be the better long term strategy.  Some of the most loyal accounts that were the hardest to get, I got by refusing to match a competitors impossible promise.  They told the client what they wanted to hear, and I told them what they needed to hear.   I also asked the for the business at this point, if the other guy doesn't deliver can I get the next shot.  Again if they don't need to sell then this strategy won't work, because they will not capitulare so you can never be proven correct n the dumb ass sales price.

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Posted
1 hour ago, horn4life said:

Do you sometimes simply say, no? That price is unrealistic, and I would be hurting and not helping you by listing at that price.  Wish them the very, very best and tell them you would love to market their home at a price that will bring it off market with a sale.

But in this case they probably do not have to sell.  Thus no need for capitulation.  I don't even consider houses like this legitimate listings. Because if you list a house at a price that will never ever fucking sell at a price remotely close to your asking price. Is it really for sale?  I get that it's impossible to say no to any listing, no matter how stupidly priced.  But the owner is not going to bend on a stupid price, the house is not going to sell, and the agent is going to waste shit ton of time.

They will cut the price eventually. And I wonder if from a sales perspective saying no sometimes in the nicest possible way, might be the better long term strategy.  Some of the most loyal accounts that were the hardest to get, I got by refusing to match a competitors impossible promise.  They told the client what they wanted to hear, and I told them what they needed to hear.   I also asked the for the business at this point, if the other guy doesn't deliver can I get the next shot.  Again if they don't need to sell then this strategy won't work, because they will not capitulare so you can never be proven correct n the dumb ass sales price.

If it were were me? I would say no on some of these listings. But my mom is my broker. There have been very few listings that she is willing to refuse. We have a riverfront listing on a vacant property that has been an absolute thorn in my side. It's kinda the frustration that made me make the above post. This dude started at $650k, it is an older, oddly laid out home with a really small garage (20x20). I don't know if I would take it if he just gave it to me. I hate to say it, but we have listed this home, off and on, since before the freeze of 2021. The guy moved to Monroe, LA, and the house has been vacant ever since. He didn't have the heat on in 2021, and the upstairs toilet tank froze and busted. It was against an outside wall. It flooded the house, how he got the insurance company to pay for it, I have no idea. The bathroom floor collapsed and I had to tiptoe out on the joists to turn the water off, $160k and a year later and we relisted it.

Fast forward to this week, and he gets a "lowball" offer. The dude has property taxes, HOA dues, utilities, and insurance payments every year. It probably totals about $20k. Is the offer still more than he paid for it? Yes. After the sunk cost of $60k in three years, I don't know. But the motherfucker needs to take the offer. I have to go turn the water on and off during freezes. I left the water off for a long time, but then agents would let their clients use the restroom. It would get mentioned in feedback. I would have to drive the 20 minutes there, turn on the water and flush the toilets. 

We are pretty selective when it comes to location, we will list things out to about 15-20 miles from home, but don't really do DFW. Code of Ethics says to stay in your area of expertise. But some of this shit that we, and others list, can really be undesirable to a lot of people, but for those struggling to buy any home at all, would be an absolute Godsend. They ain't picky.

CHIEF 

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Posted
On 2/25/2025 at 9:33 AM, UTPhil2006 said:

Broke through the 4.3xx barrier. Last time was Dec 10. Heading away from 5.0 not towards it 

Down .03ish now into the 4.1xx area 

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Posted

Know this is probably not met with postive view, but truly looking for perspective on approaching my situation and open to all the angles.

Moving due to work relocation (lump sum, self relocation, so no home sales assistance).  Before even acting to get the house on the market, we have several highly interested parties (highly desireable neighborhood, very low to no inventory in neighborhood even in robust market times) looking to make a deal before the house even goes on market

We are outside of TX.  pros and cons to moving forward to FSBO, quick off market deal vs full listing, etc?  Recommendations on steps to reasonably set price in that FSBO approach vs getting agents fully involved and doing that approach?

Posted

FSBO rarely works in the sellers favor, in the long run.  If you have people who like the house and wand to buy it (AND HAVE THE MEANS!). IF you have some live wires you can approach them to make competing offers before you list it.  You could also do a carve out for the potential buyers you have already dealt with, in your listing agreement. But trying to sell it yourself when you have to move?  I assume there is not an open ended, start date? Almost certainly a FSBO home is going to sit a lot longer on the market. And the listing can become stale. You are still going to want a buys agent commission to at least have some traffic of non-lookEloos.

IMHO you are better off with a good agent, and a smart competitive selling price.  

But even if you are determined to go the FSBO route, interview two agents that are recognizable in your market, for a possible listing, market analysis, and suggested repairs and list price.  That way you have an idea about what two professionals think you house is worth.  And you know in advance who to call if the FSBO starts to drag.

Best think you can do is figure out what your house is really worth, and figure out the net price you can live with.  Let it be known in the area you would love to sell the house pre-listing. And you could cut costs, with a sales agreement via an attorney.  Perhaps even an attorney that could also arrange an affordable mortgage... @Wulaw Horn

The fact that you probably have a time factor involved in your relocation alone would make me fearful of the time a FSBO might take.  Sell and move on... IMHO

Posted
1 hour ago, horn4life said:

But even if you are determined to go the FSBO route, interview two agents that are recognizable in your market, for a possible listing, market analysis, and suggested repairs and list price.

I'd probably just call one and offer to pay a flat fee for a comparative market analysis and let them name it (although I'm probably flinching if it's more than $400). 

To @horn4life's point, FSBO isn't for the faint of heart and there's a better than 50-50 chance you confide later that you wished you'd use an agent.  I think everyone gets so tied up in knowing a few useless agents that they don't realize how valuable a good one is. 

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Posted
2 hours ago, horn4life said:

FSBO rarely works in the sellers favor, in the long run.  If you have people who like the house and wand to buy it (AND HAVE THE MEANS!). IF you have some live wires you can approach them to make competing offers before you list it.  You could also do a carve out for the potential buyers you have already dealt with, in your listing agreement. But trying to sell it yourself when you have to move?  I assume there is not an open ended, start date? Almost certainly a FSBO home is going to sit a lot longer on the market. And the listing can become stale. You are still going to want a buys agent commission to at least have some traffic of non-lookEloos.

IMHO you are better off with a good agent, and a smart competitive selling price.  

But even if you are determined to go the FSBO route, interview two agents that are recognizable in your market, for a possible listing, market analysis, and suggested repairs and list price.  That way you have an idea about what two professionals think you house is worth.  And you know in advance who to call if the FSBO starts to drag.

Best think you can do is figure out what your house is really worth, and figure out the net price you can live with.  Let it be known in the area you would love to sell the house pre-listing. And you could cut costs, with a sales agreement via an attorney.  Perhaps even an attorney that could also arrange an affordable mortgage... @Wulaw Horn

The fact that you probably have a time factor involved in your relocation alone would make me fearful of the time a FSBO might take.  Sell and move on... IMHO

Much appreciated.  Time-wise, don't have pressure other than self imposed to get up to new location as close to June 1 as possible to maximize settling in for kids ahead of next school year.  And financially, able to float the between time if needed on mortgages/down payments.  

Tend to agree and understand there is value in the agent setting competitive price in the market and my own true pause to use one is in the situation of a truly pre-sold situation with a buyer ready to go at the price we are happy with.  

again, thank you!

1 hour ago, LCHorn said:

I'd probably just call one and offer to pay a flat fee for a comparative market analysis and let them name it (although I'm probably flinching if it's more than $400). 

To @horn4life's point, FSBO isn't for the faint of heart and there's a better than 50-50 chance you confide later that you wished you'd use an agent.  I think everyone gets so tied up in knowing a few useless agents that they don't realize how valuable a good one is. 

Great idea on the flat fee.  One avenue I'll explore as well

Posted
23 minutes ago, Lynchburg Horn said:

Much appreciated.  Time-wise, don't have pressure other than self imposed to get up to new location as close to June 1 as possible to maximize settling in for kids ahead of next school year.  And financially, able to float the between time if needed on mortgages/down payments.  

Tend to agree and understand there is value in the agent setting competitive price in the market and my own true pause to use one is in the situation of a truly pre-sold situation with a buyer ready to go at the price we are happy with.  

again, thank you!

Great idea on the flat fee.  One avenue I'll explore as well

If you find a buyer, and hammer out an agreed upon price, I am 100% positive you can get a realtor to draw up a contract for a flat fee. We have done that for a few friends, our family members selling to other family members at an agreed upon price.

CHIEF

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