All Encompassing Mortgage and Real Estate Thread

[crash_davis 23468]

Just now, Wulaw Horn said:

I'm not arguing that you are wrong, but holy shit that's bleak. If it does happen like that you are correct that it will just become "a way of life" to be renter, but I think home ownership is such a foundational core of the American culture (we basically all immigrated here b/c someone in our ancestry really wanted to own land/a home) that it doesn't ever go away.  I hope anyway.  Because America isn't America without a robust culture of home ownership.  

this has been one of the basic tenets of American values. work hard, own a home. the boomers forget how on one income, they could afford home, have good life with annual vacations, afford to pay 2 kids through college, and still have money to retire. now 20-30 year olds can hardly afford a home on 2 incomes. forget about retiring.

i think the older generation who had it easy and now have the wealth forget how fucking easy American life and opportunities were for them. most are hell bent on living in luxury for their remaining years at the expense of the younger generation.

[crash_davis 23468]

1 minute ago, jimmyjazz said:

Thanks, but I was referring to the US map by county.  I can't find a dynamic version where I can select an individual county to get its data.

reading is hard. county, country, same thing.

[Wulaw Horn 19579]

6 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Thanks, but I was referring to the US map by county.  I can't find a dynamic version where I can select an individual county to get its data.

County and country look a lot alike when your eyes aren't super amazing.  Done that myself. 

[Wulaw Horn 19579]

7 minutes ago, crash_davis said:

this has been one of the basic tenets of American values. work hard, own a home. the boomers forget how on one income, they could afford home, have good life with annual vacations, afford to pay 2 kids through college, and still have money to retire. now 20-30 year olds can hardly afford a home on 2 incomes. forget about retiring.

i think the older generation who had it easy and now have the wealth forget how fucking easy American life and opportunities were for them. most are hell bent on living in luxury for their remaining years at the expense of the younger generation.

I'm not the worlds biggest fan of that generation.

[Muny_Tex 315]

I'm not arguing that you are wrong, but holy shit that's bleak. If it does happen like that you are correct that it will just become "a way of life" to be renter, but I think home ownership is such a foundational core of the American culture (we basically all immigrated here b/c someone in our ancestry really wanted to own land/a home) that it doesn't ever go away.  I hope anyway.  Because America isn't America without a robust culture of home ownership.  

Agree 1000%, but I do think there’s a way forward if we are willing to set egos/bias aside and capitalize on the resources we have available.

There are many wonderful homes in places the Birmingham and Huntsville suburbs for under $300k, other examples like Little Rock also apply…but people (especially certain urbanites) don’t want to live somewhere “redneck banjo” when there’s actually a lot to love in places like that If you’re family oriented.

The work-from-home revolution is just about the only potential net positive for Covid as a whole…people have to just be willing to make the leap and invest/immerse/support “3rd tier” cities and the long term results will be tremendous.

People need community, they need a stake in their own livelihood, and they need to get the hell out of hyper-crowded urban areas where abject poverty and obscene luxury are becoming the only lifestyles.

People have developed very skewed views of “livability” because they generally only know what they know. Austin is an oasis if you come from a west coast/northeast hellscape, but it’s a terrible beating if you grew up in this town and value things like room to breathe, permanence, and not fucking littering everywhere.

[Chewbacca 7829]

13 minutes ago, crash_davis said:

this has been one of the basic tenets of American values. work hard, own a home. the boomers forget how on one income, they could afford home, have good life with annual vacations, afford to pay 2 kids through college, and still have money to retire. now 20-30 year olds can hardly afford a home on 2 incomes. forget about retiring.

i think the older generation who had it easy and now have the wealth forget how fucking easy American life and opportunities were for them. most are hell bent on living in luxury for their remaining years at the expense of the younger generation.

Boomers are the fucking worst.  Most selfish generation ever.  Everything has always been about them, and will be until enough of them die off that they can't get what they want in elections anymore.

[crash_davis 23468]

5 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:

Boomers are the fucking worst.  Most selfish generation ever.  Everything has always been about them, and will be until enough of them die off that they can't get what they want in elections anymore.

doesn't help when most of our elected US officials are old as dirt. they are easily bought. they are the biggest impediment for change.

[Chewbacca 7829]

4 minutes ago, crash_davis said:

doesn't help when most of our elected US officials are old as dirt. they are easily bought. they are the biggest impediment for change.

Yeah, the geriatrics running the country need to die off, too.  

[crash_davis 23468]

4 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:

Yeah, the geriatrics running the country need to die off, too.  

Them: We'd like to have a few words with you.

 

Chewbacca: 

Edited May 11, 2022 by crash_davis

[Wulaw Horn 19579]

22 minutes ago, Muny_Tex said:

Agree 1000%, but I do think there’s a way forward if we are willing to set egos/bias aside and capitalize on the resources we have available.

There are many wonderful homes in places the Birmingham and Huntsville suburbs for under $300k, other examples like Little Rock also apply…but people (especially certain urbanites) don’t want to live somewhere “redneck banjo” when there’s actually a lot to love in places like that If you’re family oriented.

The work-from-home revolution is just about the only potential net positive for Covid as a whole…people have to just be willing to make the leap and invest/immerse/support “3rd tier” cities and the long term results will be tremendous.

People need community, they need a stake in their own livelihood, and they need to get the hell out of hyper-crowded urban areas where abject poverty and obscene luxury are becoming the only lifestyles.

People have developed very skewed views of “livability” because they generally only know what they know. Austin is an oasis if you come from a west coast/northeast hellscape, but it’s a terrible beating if you grew up in this town and value things like room to breathe, permanence, and not fucking littering everywhere.

And what you said is right about moving to areas with opportunity and I think that will be how it plays out.  My anscestors moved from England and Norway. My parents moved from California to Texas because they were never going to be able to afford to buy a house there.  It's possible my kids have to move someday from Houston to Arkansas or Tennessee or Wyoming or something like that. But I would absolutely tell them to do that if it meant the difference between being a home owner and a renter.  Renting is how you get kept down and never acquire anything in your life (I'm talking generalities here of course).  They typical Surly 1% could actually prefer renting and invest all his excess money in the market and grow wealthy at a rate greater than ownership/rental appreciation, but that's not at all the story of the typical renter, who looks at homeownership as the only way to build some generational wealthy.  
Watching my grandparents, who were always poor, die and leave 500k to their 4 kids (125 each) was a powerful lesson in that.  Watching that 500k be completely and totally gonzo within a year without improving any of the 4 kids life in any measurable way was just such an indictment on the Boomers that it was mind boggling.  One of them put it all up their nose. One of them drank and smoked it all (and funded his divorce) and two of them used it as a basis to start an undercapitalized restaurant and saddle themselves with more debt that eventually ended up in BK and multiple foreclosures. Instead of just, you know, using it to pay off some debt and put in savings for a rainy day or something.  Or pay off your own home!  It was sad to see but completely and totally predictable.  Fucking Boomers and this is my aunts & uncles and parents that I love.  I had conversations with 3 of the 4 saying- why don't you do this with it instead and they all looked at me like I was crazy.  

[Chewbacca 7829]

55 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Fucking Boomers and this is my aunts & uncles and parents that I love.  I had conversations with 3 of the 4 saying- why don't you do this with it instead and they all looked at me like I was crazy.  

I have learned through dealing with my own Boomer parents that when they ask for advice, they're not really looking for advice.  They're looking for someone to validate their opinion.  They have stopped asking me for advice because I would actually give it to them.  And I'm far more successful than either of them ever were, so you'd think they might listen?  Nah...

[Wulaw Horn 19579]

2 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:

I have learned through dealing with my own Boomer parents that when they ask for advice, they're not really looking for advice.  They're looking for someone to validate their opinion.  They have stopped asking me for advice because I would actually give it to them.  And I'm far more successful than either of them ever were, so you'd think they might listen?  Nah...

I remember after they went BK and got foreclosed on and got bailed out with an incredible job in Europe teaching for Dept of Defense talking to them and telling them- ok- here's what you have to do since you started over from zero at 55 years old if you want to make it.  They just looked at me like I was crazy and said "you worry too much" and I was like no- I just understand basic math.  My wife said, afterwards, like it was like watching a couple of dipshit teenagers talking about how everything was going to be ok b/c all they needed was love.  
It all worked out exactly how I said it would have to (with them having to get extra jobs and work after they got back) b/c the math is inescapable.  They are in a good place, living on my land in a 1500 square foot MIL cottage and it's working super well for everyone, especially after my dad got his tramatic brain injury.  But it was really tough for me to look at them being a circus and think- how did these ridiculous (financially) people raise me and why am I the way I am.

[We’reTexas 1477]

1 hour ago, crash_davis said:

i think the older generation who had it easy and now have the wealth forget how fucking easy American life and opportunities were for them. most are hell bent on living in luxury for their remaining years at the expense of the younger generation.

If I hear another person above the age of 60 tell me that rates are still at historic lows…

[Pato del Muerto 53451]

Just now, We’reTexas said:

If I hear another person above the age of 60 tell me that rates are still at historic lows…

Wages are at all time highs…

[Neonmoon 38130]

Want to see an increase in housing supply? 

Island of Oahu banns vacation rentals less than 90 days. 

https://vrmintel.com/honolulu-city-council-bans-stays-under-90-days-across-oahu/#:~:text=On Wednesday%2C April 13%2C Honolulu,across the island of Oahu.

Investors bought 33% of available housing in January  
https://www.businessinsider.com/investors-bought-third-us-homes-january-john-burns-real-estate-2022-4#:~:text=Investors bought 33% of US homes on the market in,housing research and consulting firm.

If supply remains an issue, counties have a lever to pull. I was thinking of buying a rental, but not anymore. 

 

[UT_OB1 2266]

21 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

Want to see an increase in housing supply? 

Island of Oahu banns vacation rentals less than 90 days. 

https://vrmintel.com/honolulu-city-council-bans-stays-under-90-days-across-oahu/#:~:text=On Wednesday%2C April 13%2C Honolulu,across the island of Oahu.

Investors bought 33% of available housing in January  
https://www.businessinsider.com/investors-bought-third-us-homes-january-john-burns-real-estate-2022-4#:~:text=Investors bought 33% of US homes on the market in,housing research and consulting firm.

If supply remains an issue, counties have a lever to pull. I was thinking of buying a rental, but not anymore. 

 

Sure they have a lever to pull, but at what cost?  How much spending do those STRs generate from tourist?  How much in taxes?  The 2 STRs that we bought - rehabbed from vacant falling down eyesores - are now triple+ the value we purchased them at, and we are paying a shit ton in property taxes. We also pay 10% to the county and 5% to the state on the gross from every stay.  There are multiple ways to approach problems, and if a places main revenue is from tourism, the local government has incentive to work with the people bringing in the money. 

[UTPhil2006 3930]

10 year ended down another .07

[TKthunder2 5059]

4 hours ago, Muny_Tex said:

I agree with the sentiment but disagree with the outcome. I think we underestimate how quickly (especially gen y/zoomers) become accustomed to misery and/or hopelessness…if it’s just implied from birth that everyone in your family/social circle rents their dwelling, then it doesn’t really seem that bad that you don’t own one.

Under this framework, “nice” homes gradually move into the opulence category alongside yachts, fine jewelry, exotic cars etc….there’s no vicious anger in not possessing something that you never reasonably expected to obtain.

You don’t generally hear working class people in super stratified places like Mexico City lamenting their lack of home ownership opportunities…that concept is so far out of the question it doesn’t even register as a gripe; whereas rent/food/fuel increase is a near frequent cause of strain and periodic uprisings.

A lot of the viciousness/resentment in the US js gonna be isolated to the older millennials who generally considered home ownership a rite of passage into adulthood, along with family aspirations etc. up until very recently…when 25+ years worth of $$ appreciation got pulled forward into ~30 months with a bonus nut punch of having to fight off institutional investors.

Tons of upper/middle class ppl in mid-late 30s are suddenly experiencing *way worse* lifestyles and outlooks than they grew up with…and with a bitch-slapping velocity that makes them want to rage since they generally “played by the rules” all these years only for the payoff to be ripped away at the very last moment.

Contrast that with the age 10-15 cohort who for pretty much all their formative years will know nothing besides hysteria, scarcity, and near constant turmoil. Their “normal” is just fundamentally different than those who grew up with seminal moments of American prosperity and national pride.

The bottom line is, the short-term psychological transition is going to be very painful for many, but once the middle class is officially (and permanently) destroyed it won’t “feel” all that badly for those who grow up in the new paradigm.

When Chekhov saw the long winter, he saw a winter bleak and dark and bereft of hope. Yet we know that winter is just another step in the cycle of life. But standing here among the people of Punxsutawney and basking in the warmth of their hearths and hearts, I couldn't imagine a better fate than a long and lustrous winter.

[Hmbre97 6337]

4 hours ago, Muny_Tex said:

I agree with the sentiment but disagree with the outcome. I think we underestimate how quickly (especially gen y/zoomers) become accustomed to misery and/or hopelessness…if it’s just implied from birth that everyone in your family/social circle rents their dwelling, then it doesn’t really seem that bad that you don’t own one.

Under this framework, “nice” homes gradually move into the opulence category alongside yachts, fine jewelry, exotic cars etc….there’s no vicious anger in not possessing something that you never reasonably expected to obtain.

You don’t generally hear working class people in super stratified places like Mexico City lamenting their lack of home ownership opportunities…that concept is so far out of the question it doesn’t even register as a gripe; whereas rent/food/fuel increase is a near frequent cause of strain and periodic uprisings.

A lot of the viciousness/resentment in the US js gonna be isolated to the older millennials who generally considered home ownership a rite of passage into adulthood, along with family aspirations etc. up until very recently…when 25+ years worth of $$ appreciation got pulled forward into ~30 months with a bonus nut punch of having to fight off institutional investors.

Tons of upper/middle class ppl in mid-late 30s are suddenly experiencing *way worse* lifestyles and outlooks than they grew up with…and with a bitch-slapping velocity that makes them want to rage since they generally “played by the rules” all these years only for the payoff to be ripped away at the very last moment.

Contrast that with the age 10-15 cohort who for pretty much all their formative years will know nothing besides hysteria, scarcity, and near constant turmoil. Their “normal” is just fundamentally different than those who grew up with seminal moments of American prosperity and national pride.

The bottom line is, the short-term psychological transition is going to be very painful for many, but once the middle class is officially (and permanently) destroyed it won’t “feel” all that badly for those who grow up in the new paradigm.

[Neonmoon 38130]

1 hour ago, UT_OB1 said:

Sure they have a lever to pull, but at what cost?  How much spending do those STRs generate from tourist?  How much in taxes?  The 2 STRs that we bought - rehabbed from vacant falling down eyesores - are now triple+ the value we purchased them at, and we are paying a shit ton in property taxes. We also pay 10% to the county and 5% to the state on the gross from every stay.  There are multiple ways to approach problems, and if a places main revenue is from tourism, the local government has incentive to work with the people bringing in the money. 

I’m not trying to be a dick, but how do STRs bring in tourism to a tourist destination? I’m sure they add an option for lodging. But wouldn’t someone visit O’ahu with or without the option of a STR? I mean was O’ahu struggling for tourist revenue before VRBO?

[Hmbre97 6337]

29 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

I’m not trying to be a dick, but how do STRs bring in tourism to a tourist destination? I’m sure they add an option for lodging. But wouldn’t someone visit O’ahu with or without the option of a STR? I mean was O’ahu struggling for tourist revenue before VRBO?

STR is totally not a problem bro. It for sure has no impact on our current housing inventory shortage...

 

[Gil Bang 26230]

On 5/8/2022 at 12:54 PM, milkman said:

I'm getting ready to list my house in the next few weeks. In talking with two realtors their opinion on asking price is wildly different. They are around 50-75K different on pricing.
I'm thinking with the current market when a buyer walks in the house that I want them to think that my asking price is reasonable and not overpriced. Pricing the house 25-30K high just seems like a way for a potential buyer to keep looking?

Here's how you do it.  List at the lower price.  Showings begin day 0.  Have your agent put in the MLS "offers will be reviewed on day 7".  

On 5/8/2022 at 1:35 PM, CooterBrown said:

List for over what a realtor tells you. They don’t want to maximize your profit, they want to minimize their effort.

In this market you don’t have to give a shit about what buyers want. You’ll
Get plenty of offers even if you ask the buyer to throw in some hookers and blow as part of their offer.

Bullshit.  Total bullshit. 

By maximizing your profit, a realtor is increasing his chances of getting more listings.  We all want to do what's best for our clients.  I'd be interested in hearing how a listing agent's "effort" is going to be different based on listing price.  

 

On 5/9/2022 at 7:39 AM, closetohumping said:

Good and bad in all industries but yes a lot of realtors just want to close quick and move on to the next one.  An extra 1 or 2k of commission is pretty meaningless to them.

 

One pricing strategy though is to price low and let the bidding begin.  SoCal is still hot but if a property is priced too high it will sit, even here.

No it's not.  

Yeah, we all want to close quick, because that's good for the seller and good for the buyer.  But this business DEPENDS on referrals.  If the seller's think that they left money on the table, the listing agent is fucked. 

 

Here's the bottom line:  It's the job of the listing agent to get your property in front of the most eyes possible in advertisement, to generate the highest number of showings.  That's job #1.  If the property is being shown, the listing agent is doing their job. Sometimes, pricing a home on the lower side is the most effective way of generating showings, which, in turn, maximizes the number of offers generated. 

Edited May 12, 2022 by Gil Bang

[milkman 428]

No it's not.  
Yeah, we all want to close quick, because that's good for the seller and good for the buyer.  But this business DEPENDS on referrals.  If the seller's think that they left money on the table, the listing agent is fucked. 
 
Here's the bottom line:  It's the job of the listing agent to get your property in front of the most eyes possible in advertisement, to generate the highest number of showings.  That's job #1.  If the property is being shown, the listing agent is doing their job. Sometimes, pricing a home on the lower side is the most effective way of generating showings, which, in turn, maximizes the number of offers generated. 

I settled on a number to list that is a little higher than where other houses have started in my neighborhood. They all go under contract within days with multiple offers. Currently there are 6 homes within +/- $150k in the school district we live. That is not a typo.....6 homes.

[closetohumping 17803]

1 hour ago, Gil Bang said:

Here's how you do it.  List at the lower price.  Showings begin day 0.  Have your agent put in the MLS "offers will be reviewed on day 7".  

Bullshit.  Total bullshit. 

By maximizing your profit, a realtor is increasing his chances of getting more listings.  We all want to do what's best for our clients.  I'd be interested in hearing how a listing agent's "effort" is going to be different based on listing price.  

 

No it's not.  

Yeah, we all want to close quick, because that's good for the seller and good for the buyer.  But this business DEPENDS on referrals.  If the seller's think that they left money on the table, the listing agent is fucked. 

 

Here's the bottom line:  It's the job of the listing agent to get your property in front of the most eyes possible in advertisement, to generate the highest number of showings.  That's job #1.  If the property is being shown, the listing agent is doing their job. Sometimes, pricing a home on the lower side is the most effective way of generating showings, which, in turn, maximizes the number of offers generated. 

I don’t doubt you.  But I know people who have been dicked over by realtors.  There are some great realtors who rightfully earn 7 or 8 figures.  But it’s a low barrier of entry and some absolute lazy sleezeballs have entered.   Like any profession

[closetohumping 17803]

58 minutes ago, milkman said:

I settled on a number to list that is a little higher than where other houses have started in my neighborhood. They all go under contract within days with multiple offers. Currently there are 6 homes within +/- $150k in the school district we live. That is not a typo.....6 homes.

Most of the homes in my area are going over ask and closing quickly.  There’s one that hasn’t and most of my neighbors think it’s overpriced 

[We’reTexas 1477]

2 hours ago, RatJuul said:

Also, places like this exist already for the last umpteen years in America. NYC is all renters. There is no other expectation. I lived adjacent to Gramercy Park and pretended like I had a key and would stand around looking cool, but nobody I know ever lived there. The people I know who could afford to live in Tribeca have moved to 5 bedroom homes in Connecticut or Long Island anyways.

There was a thread about a year ago asking the "next big city or the next austin" and it's those cities who will grow because upper middle class will be able to afford homes there. Most other cities will become like NY and implement some sort of rent control to keep people from revolting and the system imploding.

Rent control in Texas is an interesting issue I’ve wondered about. It’s a legacy from ‘70’s progressive movements in blue coastal cities and I think most recognize the disastrous effects it has had on housing markets, but nonetheless live with it because there’s no painless way to transition out. Progressives, of course, still advocate rent control along with many other strict tenant protections. 

Austin may be a liberal city, but I have tough time seeing voters stomach rent control or measures to severely curtail evictions. Also, I’m seeing census data from 2019 indicating 45% of Austinites are homeowners (which seems surprisingly low) and recent articles citing studies that the figure is 75% - anyone have and idea what the actual number is?

[Wulaw Horn 19579]

6 hours ago, We’reTexas said:

Rent control in Texas is an interesting issue I’ve wondered about. It’s a legacy from ‘70’s progressive movements in blue coastal cities and I think most recognize the disastrous effects it has had on housing markets, but nonetheless live with it because there’s no painless way to transition out. Progressives, of course, still advocate rent control along with many other strict tenant protections. 

Austin may be a liberal city, but I have tough time seeing voters stomach rent control or measures to severely curtail evictions. Also, I’m seeing census data from 2019 indicating 45% of Austinites are homeowners (which seems surprisingly low) and recent articles citing studies that the figure is 75% - anyone have and idea what the actual number is?

Probably depends on if you count transient student population as an Austinite. 

[gmr548 16688]

8 hours ago, We’reTexas said:

Rent control in Texas is an interesting issue I’ve wondered about. It’s a legacy from ‘70’s progressive movements in blue coastal cities and I think most recognize the disastrous effects it has had on housing markets, but nonetheless live with it because there’s no painless way to transition out. Progressives, of course, still advocate rent control along with many other strict tenant protections. 

Austin may be a liberal city, but I have tough time seeing voters stomach rent control or measures to severely curtail evictions. Also, I’m seeing census data from 2019 indicating 45% of Austinites are homeowners (which seems surprisingly low) and recent articles citing studies that the figure is 75% - anyone have and idea what the actual number is?

Austin has a huge student population, a large, young, and transient tech workforce, an influx of transplants, has been among the national leaders in apartment construction, and home prices that have escalated rapidly over the past decade, pricing everyone except the wealthy out of the homeownership market...

And you're surprised it's a majority renter city?

And no CR, I am not making a value judgement, but it's a simple fact that as long as the state government is under complete Republican control (AKA the foreseeable future) there is no chance of rent control in Austin or anywhere else in TX. I don't know that it would get approved locally, but even if it did, the state would simply pass a law outlawing it.

Edited May 12, 2022 by gmr548

[BabaYaga 15623]

1 hour ago, gmr548 said:

there is no chance of rent control in Austin or anywhere else in TX.

All true, but let's not ignore the issues with rent control as well.  

[closetohumping 17803]

20 hours ago, Wulaw Horn said:

And what you said is right about moving to areas with opportunity and I think that will be how it plays out.  My anscestors moved from England and Norway. My parents moved from California to Texas because they were never going to be able to afford to buy a house there.  It's possible my kids have to move someday from Houston to Arkansas or Tennessee or Wyoming or something like that. But I would absolutely tell them to do that if it meant the difference between being a home owner and a renter.  Renting is how you get kept down and never acquire anything in your life (I'm talking generalities here of course).  They typical Surly 1% could actually prefer renting and invest all his excess money in the market and grow wealthy at a rate greater than ownership/rental appreciation, but that's not at all the story of the typical renter, who looks at homeownership as the only way to build some generational wealthy.  
Watching my grandparents, who were always poor, die and leave 500k to their 4 kids (125 each) was a powerful lesson in that.  Watching that 500k be completely and totally gonzo within a year without improving any of the 4 kids life in any measurable way was just such an indictment on the Boomers that it was mind boggling.  One of them put it all up their nose. One of them drank and smoked it all (and funded his divorce) and two of them used it as a basis to start an undercapitalized restaurant and saddle themselves with more debt that eventually ended up in BK and multiple foreclosures. Instead of just, you know, using it to pay off some debt and put in savings for a rainy day or something.  Or pay off your own home!  It was sad to see but completely and totally predictable.  Fucking Boomers and this is my aunts & uncles and parents that I love.  I had conversations with 3 of the 4 saying- why don't you do this with it instead and they all looked at me like I was crazy.  

You know my parents have done reasonably well in life but there was a period where they squandered a lot of their money.  Odd as they came from nothing, like two outfits for each of us kids nothing.  Free lunch nothing.  Anyways, there was a time where they hit financial trouble and I recommended they drive a Honda instead of a Mercedes and it was like I had insulted them personally. 

[UTPhil2006 3930]

18 hours ago, UTPhil2006 said:

10 year ended down another .07

Down another .05 so far today.  About 0.25 down since hitting the high of 3.12 last Friday

[We’reTexas 1477]

2 hours ago, gmr548 said:

Austin has a huge student population, a large, young, and transient tech workforce, an influx of transplants, has been among the national leaders in apartment construction, and home prices that have escalated rapidly over the past decade, pricing everyone except the wealthy out of the homeownership market...

And you're surprised it's a majority renter city?

And no CR, I am not making a value judgement, but it's a simple fact that as long as the state government is under complete Republican control (AKA the foreseeable future) there is no chance of rent control in Austin or anywhere else in TX. I don't know that it would get approved locally, but even if it did, the state would simply pass a law outlawing it.

Yes, I’d nonetheless be surprised that Austin’s homeownership rate is only 7% above San Francisco’s, which has had affordability problems for much, much longer. Settle down there chief, just seeing conflicting numbers and wondering what is correct. 

[Chewbacca 7829]

20 hours ago, UT_OB1 said:

Sure they have a lever to pull, but at what cost?  How much spending do those STRs generate from tourist?  How much in taxes?  The 2 STRs that we bought - rehabbed from vacant falling down eyesores - are now triple+ the value we purchased them at, and we are paying a shit ton in property taxes. We also pay 10% to the county and 5% to the state on the gross from every stay.  There are multiple ways to approach problems, and if a places main revenue is from tourism, the local government has incentive to work with the people bringing in the money. 

Tourists don't matter much if you have no employees to work in your store or restaurant or resort because they can't find a place to live.  Many places (mountain communities are what I'm more familiar with) are having a housing crisis because so many houses that used to be available for LTR have now been switched to STR, effectively taking them out of the housing stock.  That is what is causing communities to react like Oahu did.  I would expect you'll see more and more restrictions going forward.

 

I think you're way overstating STR's impact to a county's bottom line.  I bet it's almost irrelevant because if you're not paying the STR tax, then a hotel is.  And the shops/resorts/restaurants don't see a penny of that money.

[UT_OB1 2266]

22 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:

Tourists don't matter much if you have no employees to work in your store or restaurant or resort because they can't find a place to live.  Many places (mountain communities are what I'm more familiar with) are having a housing crisis because so many houses that used to be available for LTR have now been switched to STR, effectively taking them out of the housing stock.  That is what is causing communities to react like Oahu did.  I would expect you'll see more and more restrictions going forward.

 

I think you're way overstating STR's impact to a county's bottom line.  I bet it's almost irrelevant because if you're not paying the STR tax, then a hotel is.  And the shops/resorts/restaurants don't see a penny of that money.

In a place with limited space like an island or mountain resort area, you’re going to have to strike a balance. You can’t convert everything to STR but you also don’t want to force out all the mom and pop, because you can’t just throw up a new hotel over night. 
 

Most vacation destinations charge STR owners HOT. Not registering it will get you kicked off Airbnb and VRBO. 

Oahu shop owners disagree with your statement they don’t see a penny. There was a large coalition against the reg

Quote

Outside of city hall, Bill 41 faced more significant opposition, not only from short-term rental operators but also from adjacent community businesses. In a video series published by the Oahu Short-Term Rental Alliance (OSTRA), local residents in fields like housekeeping and real estate shared how Bill 41 would have a domino effect on them. 

“A ban on short-term rentals would impact my business mainly through the loss of the traveler who hopes to stay for longer than a few days,” said Sam Monaghan, a Waikiki restaurant owner. “I understand the need for regulations for short-term rental business, but I really wish the people making the rules think through who it benefits, and it’s not just massive corporations; it helps the little companies that actually hire local people like my business here.”

Oh, and shocked someone in the department that drafted the bill resigned over corruption issues (big hotel/condo groups trying to push through an order that limits completion for them)

Quote

The vote also came one week after Dean Uchida, director of the Department of Planning and Permitting (DPP), voluntarily recused himself following an ethics complaint regarding a conflict of interest. Uchida’s wife is an executive with Aqua-Aston Hospitality, which owns several condo-hotel properties in Waikiki. The DPP is primarily responsible for drafting the language of the bill, an early version of which would have required condo-hotel unit owners to use the hotel facility management.

Tupola alluded to this issue in her vote explanation. “I cannot vote yes on a bill that’s cherry-picking areas instead of taking a countywide approach. I cannot vote yes on a bill that affects my district, and I still have not been consulted on these zoning changes. I cannot vote yes on a bill that’s showing up with preference, and I cannot vote yes on a bill that has not brought the stakeholders together,” she said. ”

 

[Chewbacca 7829]

1 minute ago, UT_OB1 said:

In a place with limited space like an island or mountain resort area, you’re going to have to strike a balance. You can’t convert everything to STR but you also don’t want to force out all the mom and pop, because you can’t just throw up a new hotel over night. 
 

Most vacation destinations charge STR owners HOT. Not registering it will get you kicked off Airbnb and VRBO. 

Oahu shop owners disagree with your statement they don’t see a penny. There was a large coalition against the reg

Oh, and shocked someone in the department that drafted the bill resigned over corruption issues (big hotel/condo groups trying to push through an order that limits completion for them)

 

You're not getting what I'm saying.  If someone can't stay in an airbnb or VRBO, they stay in a hotel.  The occupancy taxes get paid either way.  But the shop owners don't see a penny of those taxes.

 

I'm not advocating getting rid of STRs, but they need much more oversight in places where they are fucking up the housing stock.  Go to any mountain resort right now and tell me if you see a single business without a HELP WANTED sign in the window.  Lots of places have closed or reduced hours over the past year because they can't get employees.  They can't get employees because employees can't find housing, or are being forced out of their rental because the owner is making it a STR.  Gonna have lots of pissed off Texans in the mountains if there's nobody to serve them food and sell them stuff.

[Neonmoon 38130]

Investors buying 30% of houses is a problem. I don’t know what the solution is, but the local community isn’t happy about the housing situation. 

[closetohumping 17803]

8 hours ago, We’reTexas said:

Yes, I’d nonetheless be surprised that Austin’s homeownership rate is only 7% above San Francisco’s, which has had affordability problems for much, much longer. Settle down there chief, just seeing conflicting numbers and wondering what is correct. 

San Fran has this affordable housing initiative I think.  You can buy a condo for 400k.

[closetohumping 17803]

5 hours ago, Chewbacca said:

You're not getting what I'm saying.  If someone can't stay in an airbnb or VRBO, they stay in a hotel.  The occupancy taxes get paid either way.  But the shop owners don't see a penny of those taxes.

 

I'm not advocating getting rid of STRs, but they need much more oversight in places where they are fucking up the housing stock.  Go to any mountain resort right now and tell me if you see a single business without a HELP WANTED sign in the window.  Lots of places have closed or reduced hours over the past year because they can't get employees.  They can't get employees because employees can't find housing, or are being forced out of their rental because the owner is making it a STR.  Gonna have lots of pissed off Texans in the mountains if there's nobody to serve them food and sell them stuff.

What's crazy is I've seen some Starbucks closed early because they can't staff their stores.

[fattyflattie 4640]

6 hours ago, Chewbacca said:

Tourists don't matter much if you have no employees to work in your store or restaurant or resort because they can't find a place to live.  Many places (mountain communities are what I'm more familiar with) are having a housing crisis because so many houses that used to be available for LTR have now been switched to STR, effectively taking them out of the housing stock.  That is what is causing communities to react like Oahu did.  I would expect you'll see more and more restrictions going forward.

I heard on radio not long ago that Aspen cut off all new building permits within a decent radius of town, and was starting to see the issues with low waged personnel. I would think they couldn’t afford to live there anyhow, but it was making a case that it’s gotten really bad. 

[Gladeite 376]

In our mountain community of Pagosa Springs, there is an all out war to limit STR.  Same in Breckenridge, Aspen, Crested Butte.  They are a plague to mountain towns in Colorado.  There is a radical difference between owning a home for income vs pride of ownership/living there and it being a reflection of your life.  As we enter 10 to 15 years into the program, no doubt prices have risen due to demand exceeding supply, but the overall condition of the homes/neighborhoods are in a state of decline.  There is no incentive to repaint/stain the exterior, upgrade landscape, make the house look better when that does not increase rent.  Rent is increased by putting bunk beds in the recreation room, increasing parking and having as many occupants as allowed by law.  

Our subdivision does not allow STR and many are moving in that direction.  A law just passed in PS that every registered STR has to pay $150 per bedroom tax each month.  My neighbor is on a board in Breck and their POA just passed a restriction eliminating any rentals less than 30 days.  

Investors had purchased most of the inexpensive housing in PS and there is an extreme shortage of homes to rent/buy for the working class.  It is a real problem here.  There are limited grocery store hours, restaurants closed because can't hire workers.  

 

[Pato del Muerto 53451]

39 minutes ago, closetohumping said:

What's crazy is I've seen some Starbucks closed early because they can't staff their stores.

We’ve had the Taco Bell near us close mid afternoon because of staffing issues. 
 

as for STRs, my neighborhood in Wyoming had an HOA bylaw that there would be no leases less than 30 days. 

Edited May 13, 2022 by Pato del Muerto

[Wulaw Horn 19579]

3 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

We’ve had the Taco Bell near us close mid afternoon because of staffing issues. 
 

as for STRs, my neighborhood in Wyoming had an HOA bylaw that there would be no leases less than 30 days. 

Mexican pizza is coming back next week- that better open the place back up. 

[Pato del Muerto 53451]

1 minute ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Mexican pizza is coming back next week- that better open the place back up. 

5.5 (Apr 5.6xx)for a conventional 30 w/ no points still a fair number?

Edited May 13, 2022 by Pato del Muerto

[Wulaw Horn 19579]

1 minute ago, Pato del Muerto said:

5.5 (Apr 5.6xx)for a conventional 30 w/ no points still a fair number?

Probably not 

[Chewbacca 7829]

16 minutes ago, Gladeite said:

In our mountain community of Pagosa Springs, there is an all out war to limit STR.  Same in Breckenridge, Aspen, Crested Butte.  They are a plague to mountain towns in Colorado.  There is a radical difference between owning a home for income vs pride of ownership/living there and it being a reflection of your life.  As we enter 10 to 15 years into the program, no doubt prices have risen due to demand exceeding supply, but the overall condition of the homes/neighborhoods are in a state of decline.  There is no incentive to repaint/stain the exterior, upgrade landscape, make the house look better when that does not increase rent.  Rent is increased by putting bunk beds in the recreation room, increasing parking and having as many occupants as allowed by law.  

Our subdivision does not allow STR and many are moving in that direction.  A law just passed in PS that every registered STR has to pay $150 per bedroom tax each month.  My neighbor is on a board in Breck and their POA just passed a restriction eliminating any rentals less than 30 days.  

Investors had purchased most of the inexpensive housing in PS and there is an extreme shortage of homes to rent/buy for the working class.  It is a real problem here.  There are limited grocery store hours, restaurants closed because can't hire workers.  

 

Yeah, I don't think most people realize how bad it has gotten in the mountains, or they just don't care.  They'll start to care when it impacts their vacations (or when their STR is no longer profitable), though.

Grand County only has 15,000 full time residents.  There are hundreds of houses and condos in the county on STR sites, and many of them would otherwise be LTRs.  It's really fucking up the housing supply.  I think there are a lot more restrictions on the way for STRs.  

[Wulaw Horn 19579]

1 minute ago, Chewbacca said:

Yeah, I don't think most people realize how bad it has gotten in the mountains, or they just don't care.  They'll start to care when it impacts their vacations (or when their STR is no longer profitable), though.

Grand County only has 15,000 full time residents.  There are hundreds of houses and condos in the county on STR sites, and many of them would otherwise be LTRs.  It's really fucking up the housing supply.  I think there are a lot more restrictions on the way for STRs.  

Will they be able to ban houses that are currently STR or will those be grandfathered in? 

[Chewbacca 7829]

28 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

I heard on radio not long ago that Aspen cut off all new building permits within a decent radius of town, and was starting to see the issues with low waged personnel. I would think they couldn’t afford to live there anyhow, but it was making a case that it’s gotten really bad. 

Workers in Aspen haven't been able to afford Aspen proper for decades.  But now places like Carbondale are out of reach for ordinary folks, too.  

Aspen is a lot like Boulder.  They won't admit it, but I think they like that none of the workers can afford to live close.

[We’reTexas 1477]

54 minutes ago, closetohumping said:

San Fran has this affordable housing initiative I think.  You can buy a condo for 400k.

Yes, but for those who qualify it’s like winning the lottery.

[Chewbacca 7829]

1 minute ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Will they be able to ban houses that are currently STR or will those be grandfathered in? 

Technically they can do whatever they want.  Not sure what will happen, though.  I respect that the STR owners are still property owners, but many (most?) don't seem to care about the community.  They just care about themselves.

[Wulaw Horn 19579]

Just now, Chewbacca said:

Technically they can do whatever they want.  Not sure what will happen, though.  I respect that the STR owners are still property owners, but many (most?) don't seem to care about the community.  They just care about themselves.

I mean, Everyone pretty much just cares about themselves. It’s just that if you live there you are more likely to feel like the community welfare  lines up with your own welfare.