All Encompassing Mortgage and Real Estate Thread

[fattyflattie 4,633]

This last page has been eye opening.  I don’t like sharing my stuff (renting out) but had some math worked up where 1 place could pretty well pay for 2 in some of the areas we enjoy staying.   I had no clue the STR was causing this much fuss.  Pretty, pretty interesting.  

[ChickenSandwich 9,770]

1 hour ago, closetohumping said:

San Fran has this affordable housing initiative I think.  You can buy a condo for 400k.

You qualify for rental assistance if you make less than $102,450/yr (1person)

$146k for 4

just pure insanity. 

https://sf.gov/renthelp

 

[Chewbacca 7,630]

I mean, Everyone pretty much just cares about themselves. It’s just that if you live there you are more likely to feel like the community welfare  lines up with your own welfare. 

If you own property, you should care about the community, but that often doesn't seem to be the case.

[StruggleBus 3,922]

Short term rentals are a herpes sore on the tip of mankind’s dick 

[closetohumping 17,302]

56 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:

Workers in Aspen haven't been able to afford Aspen proper for decades.  But now places like Carbondale are out of reach for ordinary folks, too.  

Aspen is a lot like Boulder.  They won't admit it, but I think they like that none of the workers can afford to live close.

Lived in Denver.  Wouldn’t doubt that for a second. Some cities like that prestige. 

[Hefeweizen 5,236]

10 minutes ago, closetohumping said:

Lived in Denver.  Wouldn’t doubt that for a second. Some cities like that prestige. 

This is Austin in a nutshell.  And in Bee Cave, I'm seeing the natives gear up to fight an affordable housing initiative that's coming.  It is needed, badly, due to the Galleria and other service businesses on the 620 corridor.  Basically these people have to live in trailers out by Spicewood or down in Hays County (Travis County makes it really hard to do trailer parks, who wants poor people!!).  The minute you start talking about having a Jose or Selena in Bee Cave Elementary, it's fucking on, motherfucker.  Brayden and Jayden and Aiden ain't competing with them.

[Pato del Muerto 52,120]

So this here is priced essentially as a business opportunity, as an income earning property.  Obviously there’s no way it can appraise for that amount, so cash buy. 
 

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/903-S-Elm-St-Georgetown-TX-78626/2063329798_zpid/?z7&utm_source=email&utm_medium=email&utm_term=urn:msg:2022051208340848a3b770de2d5c68&utm_campaign=emo-homerecs-email&utm_content=forsaleimage-HomeRec_AI-PERS-EMAIL-AA-NoHRS-NoHRS_rid-z-hri-fs-v0-1652334008-d6d706e84b67468aa5387e465eac05e9__gid-zillow_batch_volume_governor_hri_for_sale_email_model_a-hri_fs_email-1652332992-30d394de-bbe7-4e00-b0ba-7fbbb295d408_homerecs-email_&rtoken=a4de30c2-caaf-40d3-9b91-ebd52c0ead1f~X1-ZUvc1l8mykfuo9_6a5jq
 

sorry for the ridiculous link- not sure where to cut to get all the tracking/tagging shit off of it

Edited May 13, 2022 by Pato del Muerto

[closetohumping 17,302]

4 minutes ago, Hefeweizen said:

This is Austin in a nutshell.  And in Bee Cave, I'm seeing the natives gear up to fight an affordable housing initiative that's coming.  It is needed, badly, due to the Galleria and other service businesses on the 620 corridor.  Basically these people have to live in trailers out by Spicewood or down in Hays County (Travis County makes it really hard to do trailer parks, who wants poor people!!).  The minute you start talking about having a Jose or Selena in Bee Cave Elementary, it's fucking on, motherfucker.  Brayden and Jayden and Aiden ain't competing with them.

I live in Orange County there are some affordable income apartments right next to multimillion dollar homes.  Pretty sure the builders were compensated and forced to do so.  2br for about 1100?   Very affordable for here 

 

 

i would guess jaidens parents would want lower income people in.  The challenge is when the Asians move in.  See coppell and sugar land

Edited May 13, 2022 by closetohumping

[ChickenSandwich 9,770]

43 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

So this here is priced essentially as a business opportunity, as an income earning property.  Obviously there’s no way it can appraise for that amount, so cash buy. 
 

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/903-S-Elm-St-Georgetown-TX-78626/2063329798_zpid/?z7&utm_source=email&utm_medium=email&utm_term=urn:msg:2022051208340848a3b770de2d5c68&utm_campaign=emo-homerecs-email&utm_content=forsaleimage-HomeRec_AI-PERS-EMAIL-AA-NoHRS-NoHRS_rid-z-hri-fs-v0-1652334008-d6d706e84b67468aa5387e465eac05e9__gid-zillow_batch_volume_governor_hri_for_sale_email_model_a-hri_fs_email-1652332992-30d394de-bbe7-4e00-b0ba-7fbbb295d408_homerecs-email_&rtoken=a4de30c2-caaf-40d3-9b91-ebd52c0ead1f~X1-ZUvc1l8mykfuo9_6a5jq
 

sorry for the ridiculous link- not sure where to cut to get all the tracking/tagging shit off of it

905 next door just had a 30k price reduction. Jump on it!

[StruggleBus 3,922]

1 hour ago, Pato del Muerto said:

So this here is priced essentially as a business opportunity, as an income earning property.  Obviously there’s no way it can appraise for that amount, so cash buy. 
 

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/903-S-Elm-St-Georgetown-TX-78626/2063329798_zpid/?z7&utm_source=email&utm_medium=email&utm_term=urn:msg:2022051208340848a3b770de2d5c68&utm_campaign=emo-homerecs-email&utm_content=forsaleimage-HomeRec_AI-PERS-EMAIL-AA-NoHRS-NoHRS_rid-z-hri-fs-v0-1652334008-d6d706e84b67468aa5387e465eac05e9__gid-zillow_batch_volume_governor_hri_for_sale_email_model_a-hri_fs_email-1652332992-30d394de-bbe7-4e00-b0ba-7fbbb295d408_homerecs-email_&rtoken=a4de30c2-caaf-40d3-9b91-ebd52c0ead1f~X1-ZUvc1l8mykfuo9_6a5jq
 

sorry for the ridiculous link- not sure where to cut to get all the tracking/tagging shit off of it

I take shits bigger than that

[Pato del Muerto 52,120]

8 minutes ago, StruggleBus said:

I take shits bigger than that

But do you price them at 450k?

[UTPhil2006 3,775]

10 year up 0.11 so far today.  Pared off about 1/3 of the winnings of the week so far.

[UTPhil2006 3,775]

On 5/13/2022 at 9:37 AM, UTPhil2006 said:

10 year up 0.11 so far today.  Pared off about 1/3 of the winnings of the week so far.

Got about half back of this so far this morning so over the last 10 days or so trending the right way.  

[HRSchenker 2,224]

I can't understand why municipalities don't just go all in on either fully allowing them or outright banning them. Aren't zoning codes supposed to be about building rights rather than restrictions? Why are Texas cities allowing STRs to operate in residential neighborhoods? That's what is happening in Dallas right now. Years ago our city attorney basically said that STRs are not residential or hotels and can't be regulated. They still ask the operators to pay HOT but most are calling the city's bluff. The council just needs to say "zoning for SFH doesn't allow short term rentals so cease and desist that behavior immediately" but they're dragging their heels. One council member even says that restricting STRs is racist (no CR plz).

Also I don't buy the BS that most STR operators are mom and pop. That's definitely not the case in Dallas

[Esque 135]

@HRSchenker

I get the frustration and friction, but this is largely out of municipalities' hands.  This is a matter of administrative law and has to do with the laws and rules of Texas occupation code.  The power bequeathed to municipalities largely revolves around land use and which improvements can be constructed upon said land.  The operational use of said improvements comes down to occupations code.

What needs to be regulated is too difficult to regulate and that's the rub.  Technology has enabled a unique occupation model in which the same improvement can reasonably be used for long term occupation and short term occupation interchangeably.  Whereas historically there was more of a distinction between the two.  I don't know what code or regulation is reasonably going to manage this without creating some administratively nightmare, which is not what we need.  For example, you could use the fire department to limit all residential  dwellings to a capacity of one person per bedroom to mitigate STR impact.  However, you'd also be fucking over a lot of student housing, family housing, and so forth.  It just doesn't make sense.

Municipalities have tried, but they're grossly overstepping their authority.  And have been called out on it a few times.

[UTPhil2006 3,775]

23 hours ago, UTPhil2006 said:

Got about half back of this so far this morning so over the last 10 days or so trending the right way.  

Back on the rollercoaster the other way.  Up .09 first 30 min today.

[closetohumping 17,302]

Any chance we see the good ole days when the rates were below 3?

[Sbbruin 21,588]

3 minutes ago, closetohumping said:

Any chance we see the good ole days when the rates were below 3?

[StruggleBus 3,922]

17 minutes ago, closetohumping said:

Any chance we see the good ole days when the rates were below 3?

Who knows, but rates will never actually be high again. Simply not feasible. 

[UTPhil2006 3,775]

30 minutes ago, closetohumping said:

Any chance we see the good ole days when the rates were below 3?

Let's just try and get back to around 4 first.  Might be a while.

[closetohumping 17,302]

1 minute ago, UTPhil2006 said:

Let's just try and get back to around 4 first.  Might be a while.

Yep.  Trying times.  

[Neonmoon 38,126]

56 minutes ago, closetohumping said:

Any chance we see the good ole days when the rates were below 3?

What does the graph say?

[Wulaw Horn 18,919]

1 minute ago, Neonmoon said:

What does the graph say?

Graph says yes!  I still see mostly a trendline down.  

[closetohumping 17,302]

4 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

What does the graph say?

[Turtle 52]

I have a question. So I'm under contract and should be moving in around September.  I'll be putting about 34% down and credit score is about 830. I have zero debts except for my car. 

I've been using Mortgage News Daily to follow the changing rates just to get an idea of what payments would be like. So just for example, if it shows 5.37% for a 30 yr fixed conventional, would that mean that is at least a baseline of what I could expect without buying any points?  Or is that the rate a lender starts at then they tack on a little bit for their profit. 

Just curious. Thanks alot y'all. I really enjoy reading and following this thread. 

[Wulaw Horn 18,919]

1 minute ago, Turtle said:

I have a question. So I'm under contract and should be moving in around September.  I'll be putting about 34% down and credit score is about 830. I have zero debts except for my car. 

I've been using Mortgage News Daily to follow the changing rates just to get an idea of what payments would be like. So just for example, if it shows 5.37% for a 30 yr fixed conventional, would that mean that is at least a baseline of what I could expect without buying any points?  Or is that the rate a lender starts at then they tack on a little bit for their profit. 

Just curious. Thanks alot y'all. I really enjoy reading and following this thread. 

That is the national average.  If you are the borrower you say you are you are an above average borrower (well above average) and should be looking at a rate that's much better than the national average.  I assume you are buying a new build?  I'd look at trying to lock at 90 days out, to set the best floor you can, in case things continue to deteriorate, but I'd check in at pricing intervals at 60 days and again at 45 to see if the market moved in your direction.  

Good Luck!

[Orale 1,080]

I can't understand why municipalities don't just go all in on either fully allowing them or outright banning them. Aren't zoning codes supposed to be about building rights rather than restrictions? Why are Texas cities allowing STRs to operate in residential neighborhoods? That's what is happening in Dallas right now. Years ago our city attorney basically said that STRs are not residential or hotels and can't be regulated. They still ask the operators to pay HOT but most are calling the city's bluff. The council just needs to say "zoning for SFH doesn't allow short term rentals so cease and desist that behavior immediately" but they're dragging their heels. One council member even says that restricting STRs is racist (no CR plz).
Also I don't buy the BS that most STR operators are mom and pop. That's definitely not the case in Dallas

They passed a law here in Oahu three years ago cutting the STRs from 12,000 on the island to about 1,800 with the bulk of those near Waikiki and resort areas. The idea was to increase housing stock for LTRs. Not sure if it's achieved that. They just passed a new law increasing the minimum rental period from 30 days to 90 days.

If you can swing it, Hawaii is a sweet spot to invest in real estate as appreciation is pretty much guaranteed, there's always renters, and property taxes are less than half a percent.

Sent from my moto g(7) power using Tapatalk

[Neonmoon 38,126]

48 minutes ago, Turtle said:

I have a question. So I'm under contract and should be moving in around September.  I'll be putting about 34% down and credit score is about 830. I have zero debts except for my car. 

I've been using Mortgage News Daily to follow the changing rates just to get an idea of what payments would be like. So just for example, if it shows 5.37% for a 30 yr fixed conventional, would that mean that is at least a baseline of what I could expect without buying any points?  Or is that the rate a lender starts at then they tack on a little bit for their profit. 

Just curious. Thanks alot y'all. I really enjoy reading and following this thread. 

You should get way better than the national average if those are your scores, down payment, and debt…unless your lender is an asshole 

[Turtle 52]

55 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

That is the national average.  If you are the borrower you say you are you are an above average borrower (well above average) and should be looking at a rate that's much better than the national average.  I assume you are buying a new build?  I'd look at trying to lock at 90 days out, to set the best floor you can, in case things continue to deteriorate, but I'd check in at pricing intervals at 60 days and again at 45 to see if the market moved in your direction.  

Good Luck!

ah ok.  That's what I was thinking and hoping.  Yes it's for a new build.  So with the builder's lender I was offered 5% but that was with buying 4 points!!  I knew that wasn't a good deal.  I was hoping to be closer to 5% before buying any points.  Yes I am looking to lock in now just in case.

Thank you for your help. 🤘🏼

[Neonmoon 38,126]

2 hours ago, Turtle said:

So with the builder's lender I was offered 5% but that was with buying 4 points!!

Was the guy wearing a ski mask?

[Turtle 52]

1 hour ago, Neonmoon said:

Was the guy wearing a ski mask?

Yep, and no lube.  Sonofabiscuit!

[closetohumping 17,302]

is this going to be the future?  I get it.  Nothing worse than doing free work but In this case Jenny is saying I won’t show a house that doesn’t meet my commission threshold unless buyer makes up the commission difference. Not saying I disagree but just interesting nonetheless.  
 

realtor friends tell me in the future the buyer will pay their agent and the seller will pay theirs.  
 

[Fudge Nuggets 19,001]

On 5/11/2022 at 11:46 AM, crash_davis said:

this shit is unsustainable. income did not increase 340%. we are at a tipping point. either the market is going to completely tank or there will be a mass revolt by a majority of americans who cannot afford rent or a home. i don't believe the astronomic price increases are isolated to the US.

i'm watching the world self implode.

I went back to figure out how much my income has increased since 2000 (just a couple of years out of school at that point).  344%, eerie.

Yes, I realize that's not the norm but that's some weird psychic type shit right there.

[Neonmoon 38,126]

19 minutes ago, closetohumping said:

is this going to be the future?  I get it.  Nothing worse than doing free work but In this case Jenny is saying I won’t show a house that doesn’t meet my commission threshold unless buyer makes up the commission difference. Not saying I disagree but just interesting nonetheless.  
 

realtor friends tell me in the future the buyer will pay their agent and the seller will pay theirs.  
 

The realtor commission topic is interesting to watch. I’m not arguing for or against the fee. Just that 3% seems like this unbreakable threshold. Meaning people always talk of it changing, but it never actually does. Redfin has their 1% fee option, but it’s not like they are cornering the market so far with it. 
 

 

[Pato del Muerto 52,120]

33 minutes ago, closetohumping said:

is this going to be the future?  I get it.  Nothing worse than doing free work but In this case Jenny is saying I won’t show a house that doesn’t meet my commission threshold unless buyer makes up the commission difference. Not saying I disagree but just interesting nonetheless.  
 

realtor friends tell me in the future the buyer will pay their agent and the seller will pay theirs.  
 

I saw a realtor buyers agreement this week that says the commission will be 3% and if the seller won’t pay it the buyer is responsible for the difference. 

[closetohumping 17,302]

Just now, Pato del Muerto said:

I saw a realtor buyers agreement this week that says the commission will be 3% and if the seller won’t pay it the buyer is responsible for the difference. 

 

11 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

The realtor commission topic is interesting to watch. I’m not arguing for or against the fee. Just that 3% seems like this unbreakable threshold. Meaning people always talk of it changing, but it never actually does. Redfin has their 1% fee option, but it’s not like they are cornering the market so far with it. 
 

 

I respect it.  Many buyers are already wr the top of their budget for better or worse so interested to see how this all plays out.  I expect some pushback but it’s not like 1% realtors have cornered the market.  Out here I’ve had realtors offer to take my listing at 4.5

[Neonmoon 38,126]

2 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

I saw a realtor buyers agreement this week that says the commission will be 3% and if the seller won’t pay it the buyer is responsible for the difference. 

I think that is standard language now. 

[UTPhil2006 3,775]

1 hour ago, Neonmoon said:

The realtor commission topic is interesting to watch. I’m not arguing for or against the fee. Just that 3% seems like this unbreakable threshold. Meaning people always talk of it changing, but it never actually does. Redfin has their 1% fee option, but it’s not like they are cornering the market so far with it. 
 

 

Redfin, OpenDoor, etc have got to be failing.  We initially saw them a good bit at first, but rarely do now.  On the mortgage side of things RedFin was absolutely atrocious to deal with.  They had 2 different coordinators on it and neither spoke to each other or knew shit.

1 hour ago, Pato del Muerto said:

I saw a realtor buyers agreement this week that says the commission will be 3% and if the seller won’t pay it the buyer is responsible for the difference. 

That's pretty shitty.

Also, I'm not gonna not show a home because of the commission.  I might make some snide remarks here and there to the sellers agent and be a pain in the ass, but it is what it is if the client wants the home.

We've sold for less than 3% all the time.  If the seller wants to save money IMO it should be with the seller's agent but that's a different discussion.

[Pato del Muerto 52,120]

8 minutes ago, UTPhil2006 said:

Redfin, OpenDoor, etc have got to be failing.  We initially saw them a good bit at first, but rarely do now.  On the mortgage side of things RedFin was absolutely atrocious to deal with.  They had 2 different coordinators on it and neither spoke to each other or knew shit.

That's pretty shitty.

Also, I'm not gonna not show a home because of the commission.  I might make some snide remarks here and there to the sellers agent and be a pain in the ass, but it is what it is if the client wants the home.

We've sold for less than 3% all the time.  If the seller wants to save money IMO it should be with the seller's agent but that's a different discussion.

Some quick surface level thinking has me feeling like the current market in lots of places has made it easier for listing agents and tougher on buyer agents, so discounted fees would be best removed from a listing agent’s share. One thing I don’t know is if getting listings is tougher than getting buyers, feels like most people ask for recs from friends and family, or use friends and family, when possible. 
 

there’s also the idea that value is related to sales price. Market forces make home values double, commission doubles.  Does effort double, or work product?  It’s definitely a business/industry model being stressed by a couple of factors. 

[Catpfish 618]

55 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

there’s also the idea that value is related to sales price. Market forces make home values double, commission doubles.  Does effort double, or work product?  It’s definitely a business/industry model being stressed by a couple of factors. 

We do listings for less than 3% all of the time.  It always cracks me up when the discount brokers offer to sell your house for 1% never mentioning what they are going to charge to cover the selling agent.

The above argument plays out all over the economy.  Does a McDonald's employee moving from $7.50 an hour to $15+ work harder or produce a better product? 

Actually as the market has changed, the listing side actually has the potential for a fair bit more of work to it when you start to consider that instead of working with one or two offers, you can now see 20 or 30 with varying features that have to be considered individually.  And by definition, listings are harder to get as you have fewer houses that are coming up for sale.

[Wulaw Horn 18,919]

5 minutes ago, Catpfish said:

We do listings for less than 3% all of the time.  It always cracks me up when the discount brokers offer to sell your house for 1% never mentioning what they are going to charge to cover the selling agent.

The above argument plays out all over the economy.  Does a McDonald's employee moving from $7.50 an hour to $15+ work harder or produce a better product? 

Actually as the market has changed, the listing side actually has the potential for a fair bit more of work to it when you start to consider that instead of working with one or two offers, you can now see 20 or 30 with varying features that have to be considered individually.  And by definition, listings are harder to get as you have fewer houses that are coming up for sale.

That’s true, but your schedule gets compressed to like a week that the house is on the market, so if I was an agent I’d sure as hell want to be a listing agent over a sales agent in this market, or deal with 20 offers over ask instead of 2 under ask from dubious borrowers. 
true about the inventory. 

[Blotto 23,293]

On 5/12/2022 at 7:41 PM, Chewbacca said:

I respect that the STR owners are still property owners, but many (most?) don't seem to care about the community.  They just care about themselves.

Its the new american ethos. 

[Muny_Tex 285]

By how much has the median housing sales price increased since the “magic 3%” became a thing?

[Neonmoon 38,126]

It became a thing in the 1940s. 

Quote

In 1913, the same year Ford began production of the Model T car, and pitcher Walter Johnson cruised to the American League MVP award, beating out “Shoeless” Joe Jackson, today’s structure for home sales commissions was established. 

Back then, the National Association Real Estate Exchanges – forerunner to the NAR – declared that member agents representing a home seller, “Always be ready and willing to divide the regular commission equally with any member of the Association who can produce a buyer for any client.”

During the lively 1920s, a commission averaged around 2.5 % of a home’s sale price, according to a study from Cornell University economist Panle Jia Barwick and University of Pennsylvania real estate professor Maisy Wong.

So, the agent selling ace pitcher Walter Johnson’s home makes the decision to set the rate at 2.5%, and has to split that commission with the buyer’s agent. If the home sold for $10,000, the agent charged Johnson $250, pocketed $125 and gave the rest to the agent representing the buyer.

By 1940, total commission rates in some areas were climbing to 5%, Barwick and Wong found. That rate solidified as the NAR and other interests promoted homeownership, or at least white homeownership, as part of the American dream.

“Those rates started off with good reason,” argued Jack Ryan, CEO of REX, a brokerage that has filed multiple legal actions against the NAR. Back then, Ryan noted, “Agents drove you around,” and exclusively knew what properties were for sale.

 

https://www.housingwire.com/articles/the-100-years-war-over-real-estate-commissions/

Median House Price since 1960

 

[Murfdogg21 4,398]

2.5% in 2022 pricing > 3% pre-2020 pricing. Get over yourself, Jenny Hart!

[Wulaw Horn 18,919]

2 minutes ago, Murfdogg21 said:

2.5% in 2022 pricing > 3% pre-2020 pricing. Get over yourself, Jenny Hart!

As a mortgage guy I can tell you that most of us are getting super compressed right now and making less money on every deal that we do.  It will be interesting to see if that happens with realtors.  

[closetohumping 17,302]

6 hours ago, UTPhil2006 said:

Redfin, OpenDoor, etc have got to be failing.  We initially saw them a good bit at first, but rarely do now.  On the mortgage side of things RedFin was absolutely atrocious to deal with.  They had 2 different coordinators on it and neither spoke to each other or knew shit.

That's pretty shitty.

Also, I'm not gonna not show a home because of the commission.  I might make some snide remarks here and there to the sellers agent and be a pain in the ass, but it is what it is if the client wants the home.

We've sold for less than 3% all the time.  If the seller wants to save money IMO it should be with the seller's agent but that's a different discussion.

So I'm not a realtor and I've asked quite a few of my realtor buddies and it's pretty split between "I have no problem expressing my worth" to "not my style, but I get it."  Personally, I probably show the 2.5% house as I assume there's not a cap the other way right?  It's not a flat fee.  You generally get paid more on a `.5M house than a 600K house?  Is it truly more work?  IDK.  A lot of people who buy homes are at their upper limits financially. A .5% charge on a 500K home could be 2,500.00.  Probably not fun to contemplate.

 

I'll also say this, I do believe in tipping based on percentage of bill at restaurants.  I know a lot of people don't tip a percentage on the wine, so Idk.

Edited May 18, 2022 by closetohumping

[Wulaw Horn 18,919]

5 minutes ago, closetohumping said:

So I'm not a realtor and I've asked quite a few of my realtor buddies and it's pretty split between "I have no problem expressing my worth" to "not my style, but I get it."  Personally, I probably show the 2.5% house as I assume there's not a cap the other way right?  It's not a flat fee.  You generally get paid more on a `.5M house than a 600K house?  Is it truly more work?  IDK.  A lot of people who buy homes are at their upper limits financially. A .5% charge on a 500K home could be 2,500.00.  Probably not fun to contemplate.

 

I'll also say this, I do believe in tipping based on percentage of bill at restaurants.  I know a lot of people don't tip a percentage on the wine, so Idk.

I think if buyers had to pay for their own agents the market for agents for buyers would just disappear in almost all of the median to lower price points.  Jacking on another $9,000- $15,000 in fees to most buyers is a non starter, and it doesn't matter if the house would sell for $15,000 less. That's not an offset for that buyer.  That buyer gets to borrow $14,250 of that $15,000 when it's baked into the sales price.  When it's not baked into the sales price they have to come up with that entire $15k themselves. Not gonna happen, nope nope nope.  

[closetohumping 17,302]

2 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

I think if buyers had to pay for their own agents the market for agents for buyers would just disappear in almost all of the median to lower price points.  Jacking on another $9,000- $15,000 in fees to most buyers is a non starter, and it doesn't matter if the house would sell for $15,000 less. That's not an offset for that buyer.  That buyer gets to borrow $14,250 of that $15,000 when it's baked into the sales price.  When it's not baked into the sales price they have to come up with that entire $15k themselves. Not gonna happen, nope nope nope.  

Yep.  My position is I'll eat that half a percent because if I'm all about money, would it be in my best interest to negotiate a lower price for my buyer?  .5% is a nominal amount.  I understand it could be a lot of work but my last RE agent gave me a rebate because she didn't do anything.  I selected the home, price was non negotiable, so she was like "here's some cash handsome."  

 

If I'm buyin a million dollar home the last thing I want to do is to hand my realtor 5k, especially in this market where everything is going over ask anyway.  And again, just my experience but "legwork" these days consists of sending out automted lists under parameters delivered to you by the customer.

[Wulaw Horn 18,919]

2 minutes ago, closetohumping said:

Yep.  My position is I'll eat that half a percent because if I'm all about money, would it be in my best interest to negotiate a lower price for my buyer?  .5% is a nominal amount.  I understand it could be a lot of work but my last RE agent gave me a rebate because she didn't do anything.  I selected the home, price was non negotiable, so she was like "here's some cash handsome."  

 

If I'm buyin a million dollar home the last thing I want to do is to hand my realtor 5k, especially in this market where everything is going over ask anyway.  And again, just my experience but "legwork" these days consists of sending out automted lists under parameters delivered to you by the customer.

Yep.  As the agent I'm probably taking it on the chin and in no way asking the buyer for the extra money. Unless, you know, I drive him all around town 3 weekends in a row and write 32 offers and and and.  Lot of buyers agents work their asses off to get a client into a home.  My point on the median and below isn't that those agents aren't earning their money, necessarily, it's that the borrowers literally won't be able to make it work Lots of times if you went to a set up where buyers paid their own agents and seller paid their own agents.