All Encompassing Mortgage and Real Estate Thread

[LCHorn 2564]

I’m convinced @jimmyjazz visits this thread because he delights in mortgage lender misery porn. 

[jimmyjazz 45211]

2 minutes ago, LCHorn said:

I’m convinced @jimmyjazz visits this thread because he delights in mortgage lender misery porn. 

That's your takeaway from my question (which was specifically asked because I wondered if my current note would be jumbo or not)?

[LCHorn 2564]

2 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

That's your takeaway from my question (which was specifically asked because I wondered if my current note would be jumbo or not)?

No, and I’m just picking on you so mea culpa if I’ve offended with my teasing.  It’s mainly because those of us in mortgage lending have been asphyxiating slowly for nine months and your questions always seem to come off (to me) as somewhat indifferent to it. 
 

I’m exaggerating, but there’s a little of “I don’t know if my kids are going to have heat this winter” coming from @Wulaw Hornand @UTPhil2006 and your inquiries/responses are “that’s terrible,” but I need to know if my house appreciated 19% and not 18%.”

Bear in mind we lost 140 bps or something today so the only group that had worse days work in British finance.  

 

[Wulaw Horn 18919]

12 minutes ago, LCHorn said:

No, and I’m just picking on you so mea culpa if I’ve offended with my teasing.  It’s mainly because those of us in mortgage lending have been asphyxiating slowly for nine months and your questions always seem to come off (to me) as somewhat indifferent to it. 
 

I’m exaggerating, but there’s a little of “I don’t know if my kids are going to have heat this winter” coming from @Wulaw Hornand @UTPhil2006 and your inquiries/responses are “that’s terrible,” but I need to know if my house appreciated 19% and not 18%.”

Bear in mind we lost 140 bps or something today so the only group that had worse days work in British finance.  

 

I’m fine.  But it sucks. I think we’ve lost 300 or something like that in 10 days? Maybe 400?  Rates at 7 for everyone. Just absolute buttfucking. 

[jimmyjazz 45211]

18 minutes ago, LCHorn said:

No, and I’m just picking on you so mea culpa if I’ve offended with my teasing.  It’s mainly because those of us in mortgage lending have been asphyxiating slowly for nine months and your questions always seem to come off (to me) as somewhat indifferent to it. 
 

I’m exaggerating, but there’s a little of “I don’t know if my kids are going to have heat this winter” coming from @Wulaw Hornand @UTPhil2006 and your inquiries/responses are “that’s terrible,” but I need to know if my house appreciated 19% and not 18%.”

Wow.  Maybe I should lay off the thread.  I'm a homeowner -- I have conflicting interests.  I like appreciation but I don't like property taxes.

If you can find a single post where I asked what my appreciation has been, I'll retract this, but I am keenly aware of valuations, and I'm not asking about them here.  Sorry if I am aware of my own self interests.  You sure as hell are aware of yours.  Long story short -- you picked the career, that ain't my fault.  Yeesh.

[StruggleBus 3922]

Jimmyjazz could fuck up a wet dream about south Austin’s mom. Ignore him. 

[jimmyjazz 45211]

14 minutes ago, StruggleBus said:

Jimmyjazz could fuck up a wet dream about south Austin’s mom. Ignore him. 

Yeah, I'm the problem because I post real estate stats for Austin proper and ask what size of a mortgage currently becomes "jumbo" on a thread titled "All Encompassing Mortage and Real Estate Thread".

You could just take your own advice and put me on "ignore", but that would require too much thought.

[Wulaw Horn 18919]

35 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Wow.  Maybe I should lay off the thread.  I'm a homeowner -- I have conflicting interests.  I like appreciation but I don't like property taxes.

If you can find a single post where I asked what my appreciation has been, I'll retract this, but I am keenly aware of valuations, and I'm not asking about them here.  Sorry if I am aware of my own self interests.  You sure as hell are aware of yours.  Long story short -- you picked the career, that ain't my fault.  Yeesh.

This is a pretty dick post man. Yeah- we all picked our careers. Generally the thought is that they won’t sort of disappear in 9 months time, or overnight or the like. But that’s what’s happening for a lot of people here. Rates were at 2.75% the beginning of the year. Now, less than 9 months later they are at 7.25%. I’m not positive, but I think that almost trebling interest rates in a year is pretty unprecedented in the industry. I’m not really sure how I’m supposed to advise or guide people in a time like this.

Nothing makes sense. I had like 15 or 16 people that I prequalified from the time school started until a couple weeks ago. Typically when I prequal someone they stick around and get a loan from us. I think there are 2 people still looking. Everyone else was like- Yikes- no way I’m doing that. These people prequalified at 5% more or less.  Now they are looking at 7%. In less than a month. Up from 3% in less than a year. 
we have had, year to date- 2 different 2 point run ups. That’s a huge move for a normal year- we’ve now done it twice. 

3 stories about why I love my job:

1) I am closing Wednesday for a guy that lives the last 22 years of his adult life in an apartment. Now, he’s going to have a place of his own to make a music studio and about 1/2 and acre to turn into an archery place. He has a bottle of scotch and a cigar with my name on it he says, that we will drink while sitting on his back porch- the first time he will ever have a back porch. That’s pretty cool. If he would have waited 1 month to pull the trigger he would not have been able to afford to do this. 
 

2) closing a 100% disabled veteran on Monday. He will have a place of his own for the first time in his life. He doesn’t have to pay real estate taxes so he can afford a pretty nice place. He has issues that this house will help resolve. He’s a sweetheart of a guy. Really glad we helped him. 
 

3) is a deal I didn’t close. Buying from a builders lender. They were giving him a shit deal. He talked to me and they magically were able to sharpen their pencil and save him $200 a month on his house payment. He emailed me yesterday telling me thank you. They basically coerced him into doing the loan with their lending company and then fucked everything up. He thanked me and then told me he regretted not just working with us but he felt threatened by his builder and was afraid to do so. It’s not always a threat, sometimes it’s rank incompetence from a big outfit.  Not getting a deal closed.  Not Closing it on time. I’m not saying we never fuck a deal up but it’s rare, usually someone else in the process, and we have to eat shit and sweat blood sweat and tears over it because that’s our rep in the community. 
 

I’m proud to work in the real estate industry. I have my law degree and could have done a lot of things in my life, but have worked 20 out of the 22 years of my life in real estate (I taught school the other 2 years). Homeownership is the American dream, it creates wealth and allows people to live life on their terms and leave a legacy for their kids in a way few other things do. It makes this country better than anywhere else in the world- so much of the population literally having ownership on their neighborhoods and communities. It’s awesome responsibility and privilege that I don’t take lightly. 
@UTPhil2006is a good guy. He gave me a nice rec on a title company that helped e out. @LCHornis a good guy. I want to be him when I grow up I think. Everyone here on this thread, I suspect, is happy to answer questions or help anyone on this board even if they don’t make a dime. I know, from personal experience, I have had dozens of phone calls and exchanges with people on this board and throughout the longhorn community where I looked at a deal, gabe them advice, told them what their deal points should look like or recommended someone else that I know that works in that area. I never made a dime out of that. I’ve referred plenty of people to local banks, credit unions or other people in my Rolodex that I will never make a dime from, because this business, if you are going to stay in it and succeed is about helping people, not looking for your next commission. 
 

I’m not unique in that amongst the people around here. There are good professionals that are going through a tough time. And yeah- I’m a professional. I’ve been through schooling. I’ve passed tests. I’m certified. I’ve spent 10’s of thousands of dollars on training and coaching so that I can be better at what I do, up on the latest in the industry, and better serve people and serve more of them. None of this is me saying I’m unique. 
I thought LC was wrong, and kidding, or fucking around with you and laughed about it. But that last sentence man, that really sucked and if that’s how you feel you should probably not use this time where people are getting whacked left and right and deals are falling apart to say that. Especially as I know you’ve had plenty of people give you good advice to the many questions you asked, that had zero belief that they’d ever see anything other than maybe a little good kharma in return for that. 
 

[jimmyjazz 45211]

1 minute ago, Wulaw Horn said:

This is a pretty dick post man.

The post I responded to wasn't a "dick post"?

I'm not rooting for anyone to lose business.  That's not my thing at all.  I haven't commented on that aspect of the sector one way or the other except in relation to how activity is reflected in the consumer's perspective.

I'd think you'd know a whole lot more about my posting style here than you apparently do.  I'll stop bothering you with questions and comments.  

 

[Wulaw Horn 18919]

Just now, jimmyjazz said:

The post I responded to wasn't a "dick post"?

I'm not rooting for anyone to lose business.  That's not my thing at all.  I haven't commented on that aspect of the sector one way or the other except in relation to how activity is reflected in the consumer's perspective.

I'd think you'd know a whole lot more about my posting style here than you apparently do.  I'll stop bothering you with questions and comments.  

 

I didn’t say you were bothering me. I like talking about real estate and I like helping people. I’m saying that if someone points out what LC did and your response is “long story short- you picked your career Thats not my fault- yeesh”  when essentially all he was telling you was tread lightly people are hurting, yeah, that’s a dick move. 

I’m not overly sensitive or I wouldn’t like this community. I am pretty open and honest about everything in my life, good, bad or indifferent. I’m fine with sharing stupid shit I’ve done, being the butt of a joke if it will give other people a laugh (or that RV thread would have never existed), or just in general being authentic. Perhaps, instead of doubling down on cuntiness you could take a gentle suggestion from multiple people that what you are doing gives the appearance of dancing on peoples graves and introspect your way to an apology (even one that’s sort of like- hey - I’m sorry if it came off that way that’s not what I meant) or just not continuing to double and triple down on it. Or don’t. You get to be whatever you that you want to be, and if that’s what you really mean- the sentence that I quoted it’s certainly your choice to make.
Either way I will continue to happily answer questions on here, asked by anyone, when I can be helpful because, yes, I did pick this profession and yes, I enjoy talking about it. 

[jimmyjazz 45211]

7 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

I didn’t say you were bothering me. I like talking about real estate and I like helping people. I’m saying that if someone points out what LC did and your response is “long story short- you picked your career Thats not my fault- yeesh”  when essentially all he was telling you was tread lightly people are hurting, 

How did I not "tread lightly"?  How is ANYTHING I've said "dancing on people's graves"?  Please, go back and find a post that is a good example of such behavior, and I'll reconsider. 

Seriously, this was the first shot across the bow (below), and it wasn't mine.  You also laughed at it.  Prior to that you and I had discussed (gasp) substitute teacher pay, and I asked about the break point between conventional and jumbo mortgages.  Not a fucking word about pain in the mortage lender business.  I should also note that I provide good (Austin) info in this thread, some of which you recently pos-repped (about seasonality in prices).

Whatever.  I'm sorry y'all are seeing pain.

 

Edited September 27, 2022 by jimmyjazz

[Wulaw Horn 18919]

12 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

How did I not "tread lightly"?  How is ANYTHING I've said "dancing on people's graves"?  Please, go back and find a post that is a good example of such behavior, and I'll reconsider. 

Seriously, this was the first shot across the bow (below), and it wasn't mine.  You also laughed at it.  Prior to that you and I had discussed (gasp) substitute teacher pay, and I asked about the break point between conventional and jumbo mortgages.  Not a fucking word about pain in the mortage lender business.  I should also note that I provide good (Austin) info in this thread, some of which you recently pos-repped (about seasonality in prices).

Whatever.  I'm sorry y'all are seeing pain.

 

As I said- I took issue with the last sentence in your post and said it came off as incredibly dickish. “You picked the career, that’s not my fault”. It reads like you think there’s something wrong with the career. I never said anything at all up until that point in time and literally thought it was all in good fun. 

[jimmyjazz 45211]

1 minute ago, Wulaw Horn said:

As I said- I took issue with the last sentence in your post and said it came off as incredibly dickish. “You picked the career, that’s not my fault”. It reads like you think there’s something wrong with the career. I never said anything at all up until that point in time and literally thought it was all in good fun. 

Well yeah, THAT was a dick comment, in retaliation.  I shouldn't have said it.  My bad.  I was just surprised at the earlier characterization of my posts, and out of the blue at that (and you supported it).

It's really nowhere near worthy of the bandwidth already wasted.  I appreciate the view you lender guys provide, and I hope you know that.

[Wulaw Horn 18919]

10 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Well yeah, THAT was a dick comment, in retaliation.  I shouldn't have said it.  My bad.  I was just surprised at the earlier characterization of my posts, and out of the blue at that (and you supported it).

It's really nowhere near worthy of the bandwidth already wasted.  I appreciate the view you lender guys provide, and I hope you know that.

I laughed because doom porn for mortgage pros was a funny line. Gallows humor right now. 

[Neonmoon 38126]

[StruggleBus 3922]

Jimmyjazz’d

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4962]

We should start a thread where he and Derka can talk about stuff like House of the Dragon.

[Incredulity 11197]

1 hour ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

We should start a thread where he and Derka can talk about stuff like House of the Dragon.

[Neonmoon 38126]

The 10 year just keeps going up. It's unreal. 

Seems like the final push to kill any housing demand. 

[Wulaw Horn 18919]

8 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

The 10 year just keeps going up. It's unreal. 

Seems like the final push to kill any housing demand. 

Yeah buddy. If you want to go ahead and boil the frog that will keep demand present as its incremental.  Toss him in a boiling pot instead and you have no frog.  Here is The chart from yesterday.  Keep in mind it's actually a lot worse than this b/c yesterday we started down 49 points at market open but ended down ~150.  So that means that this average of deals locked had many deals that were locked when the market was somewhere between 50 and 100 points better than where it ended. I'd suggest that this probably means that rates at the end of the day were 2/10's to 25/100's higher than what's captured here, and a flat day today will yield something with an average rate of a 7 on it being locked today/this morning.

 

30-YR. CONFORMING

6.725% +0.214

30-YR. JUMBO

6.350% +0.146

30-YR. FHA

6.420% +0.194

30-YR. VA

6.311% +0.121

30-YR. USDA

6.314% +0.110

15-YR. CONFORMING

5.950% +0.365

[Incredulity 11197]

Yeah, simple google search is producing mid 7’s as fixed 30.  That’s staggering.

[Wulaw Horn 18919]

15 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

Yeah, simple google search is producing mid 7’s as fixed 30.  That’s staggering.

My best choice is the rage emoji but what I'm really looking for is the crying emoji.  We don't have one.  I think I will likely be ok. I'm not sure, but I think I will. But man, it's tough out there for buyers. I have a couple I'm afraid will be homeless based upon the last 2 weeks.  Feel so much for them.  Thing is- rates at 7 are fine. It's not great, but people before bought houses there. Pricing equalibrium will happen.  It will work out.  Uncertainty, dread, immediate substantial spikes- that stuff is just a killer from a pysche standpoint. I keep hearing it's going to get better and the can keeps getting kicked down the road. 

[UTPhil2006 3773]

Awful lot of talky talk and not a lot of signing up for my mowing service 

[Neonmoon 38126]

3 minutes ago, UTPhil2006 said:

Awful lot of talky talk and not a lot of signing up for my mowing service 

Do you edge? 

[UTPhil2006 3773]

2 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

Do you edge? 

With mortgage rates creeping up on 8 I’m offering HJ’s as well 

[StruggleBus 3922]

20 minutes ago, UTPhil2006 said:

With mortgage rates creeping up on 8 I’m offering HJ’s as well 

[UTPhil2006 3773]

User name is accurate 

[Gil Bang 25689]

[Gil Bang 25689]

On a serious note, I like and respect the regulars on this thread, and would enjoy doing business with any of them.  

Personally, I hate environments where rates are falling nonstop and the same people are refinancing every 6 months.  And, when that happens, complete idiots can invade the industry and make a shitload of money while doing shoddy work. 

Stability.  That's what I like.  In a nice, stable market, good people can succeed by doing good work. 

I've been in the toilet for a couple of years now.  I'm so far below where I want to be that it makes me want to cry.   Fucking miserable out here for guys like me.  Fortunately, I've got plenty of assets and a very low nut, so I'm fine...my attitude is "I don't have anything to do, so it's time for another vacation", in fact, the GF and I were looking at cruises last night.   When stability arrives, I'll get back in the game with some vigor.  Right now, it's just depressing. 

[Mother mopar 3275]

Me and Mrs. MM are meeting home builders in November, the hope is to start building this time next year in East Texas. The desire is that rates will go down and we can sell the Florida house. Hoping we can time it all but lot of variables it seems.

I really enjoy this thread and appreciate the info by the experts...keep it coming.

[UTPhil2006 3773]

1 minute ago, Mother mopar said:

Me and Mrs. MM are meeting home builders in November, the hope is to start building late 23' in East Texas. The desire is that rates will go down and we can sell the Florida house. Hoping we can time it all but lot of variables it seems.

I really enjoy this thread and appreciate the info by the experts...keep it coming.

Thank you. 

[Wulaw Horn 18919]

17 minutes ago, Mother mopar said:

Me and Mrs. MM are meeting home builders in November, the hope is to start building this time next year in East Texas. The desire is that rates will go down and we can sell the Florida house. Hoping we can time it all but lot of variables it seems.

I really enjoy this thread and appreciate the info by the experts...keep it coming.
 

So, 

Are you building yourself with a construction loan in your name or are you commissioning a house to be built to your specs that you will then buy from the builder upon completion? 
The answer to that question should inform the strategy that you employ in an attempt to maximize your best deal. Time is such a factor in that equation that it’s important to make sure you set a reasonable floor for yourself while giving yourself optionality to chase a better ceiling. 
 

[Mother mopar 3275]

So, 
Are you building yourself with a construction loan in your name or are you commissioning a house to be built to your specs that you will then buy from the builder upon completion? 
The answer to that question should inform the strategy that you employ in an attempt to maximize your best deal. Time is such a factor in that equation that it’s important to make sure you set a reasonable floor for yourself while giving yourself optionality to chase a better ceiling. 
 

We own the land (21 acres) and the desire is to use a VA construction loan, a niche of a niche market...I know. The goal would be to commission a house to be built with the specs that we want and then buy from the said builder. However, I'm open to options but I know the builder will want us to use "their fiance people.)

Worst case scenario, we go conventional loan on the build then flip to VA loan thereafter.

[Wulaw Horn 18919]

3 minutes ago, Mother mopar said:

We own the land (21 acres) and the desire is to use a VA construction loan, a niche of a niche market...I know. The goal would be to commission a house to be built with the specs that we want and then buy from the said builder. However, I'm open to options but I know the builder will want us to use "their fiance people.)

Worst case scenario, we go conventional loan on the build then flip to VA loan thereafter.

If you are buying from the builder that’s fine- you don’t have to use the VA finance for construction which is wonky. I’d suggest getting with a broker at 90 days to lock and then monitoring from there until 30 days to check market reaction. 

[Wulaw Horn 18919]

3 minutes ago, Mother mopar said:

We own the land (21 acres) and the desire is to use a VA construction loan, a niche of a niche market...I know. The goal would be to commission a house to be built with the specs that we want and then buy from the said builder. However, I'm open to options but I know the builder will want us to use "their fiance people.)

Worst case scenario, we go conventional loan on the build then flip to VA loan thereafter.

If you are buying from the builder that’s fine- you don’t have to use the VA finance for construction which is wonky. I’d suggest getting with a broker at 90 days to lock and then monitoring from there until 30 days to check market reaction. 

[Gil Bang 25689]

2 hours ago, Mother mopar said:

We own the land (21 acres) and the desire is to use a VA construction loan, a niche of a niche market...I know. The goal would be to commission a house to be built with the specs that we want and then buy from the said builder. However, I'm open to options but I know the builder will want us to use "their fiance people.)

Worst case scenario, we go conventional loan on the build then flip to VA loan thereafter.

 

2 hours ago, Wulaw Horn said:

If you are buying from the builder that’s fine- you don’t have to use the VA finance for construction which is wonky. I’d suggest getting with a broker at 90 days to lock and then monitoring from there until 30 days to check market reaction. 

 

33 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

If you are buying from the builder that’s fine- you don’t have to use the VA finance for construction which is wonky. I’d suggest getting with a broker at 90 days to lock and then monitoring from there until 30 days to check market reaction. 

Take it from a guy did a metric shitton of construction loans; make sure that (you and your builder) understand the construction lender's disbursement policies before you go with them.   Some banks are too rigid, and some are so loose that your builder can steal from you easily.   

Pretty good rule of thumb: if your builder doesn't spend a minute bitching about the bank every time you speak to him, he's probably figured out a way to rob you.

 

[hornian 5166]

9 hours ago, UTPhil2006 said:

With mortgage rates creeping up on 8 I’m offering HJ’s as well 

How much for a ZJ?

[TKthunder2 4959]

9 minutes ago, hornian said:

How much for a ZJ?

If you have to ask big guy you can’t afford it.

[Neonmoon 38126]

In times like these, it's good to have nightmare clients putting 0 money down on a 330K house, which might not appraise, and making my life a living hell by injecting drama into every single communication. 

#blessed. 

 

 

[Sam Lin 3535]

Look at the bright side, it could be a nightmare mowing client complaining about how your HJ wasn't edging well.

[Gil Bang 25689]

12 hours ago, Neonmoon said:

In times like these, it's good to have nightmare clients putting 0 money down on a 330K house, which might not appraise, and making my life a living hell by injecting drama into every single communication. 

#blessed. 

 

 

In better times, I'd invite such a client to fuck right off.  Nowadays, I'd probably put up with the bullshit.

[Assman 1830]

My wife is a Realtor and because of her success in the last 2 years I’ve been taking a lot of time off.  Now I’m having to work more because her business has slowed to a trickle, but we’re fortunate to have the option to do so.  I have a buddy who works for a small local lender and he’s already started selling off his toys, including his dream car which he just bought 6 months ago.    My heart really goes out to you guys that are in the Real Estate industry and rely on it to feed your family.

[KYHorn 16728]

Finally got an offer (asking price) on my brother's house. Their rate is "not to exceed 7%" 😳

Any recs for counter offer approaches? They're asking us to pay closing costs. Ask to fold half the closing costs into the loan?

[Gil Bang 25689]

6 minutes ago, KYHorn said:

Finally got an offer (asking price) on my brother's house. Their rate is "not to exceed 7%" 😳

Any recs for counter offer approaches? They're asking us to pay closing costs. Ask to fold half the closing costs into the loan?

other terms?  Does it say 30 year fixed, etc? 

[Neonmoon 38126]

9 minutes ago, KYHorn said:

Finally got an offer (asking price) on my brother's house. Their rate is "not to exceed 7%" 😳

Any recs for counter offer approaches? They're asking us to pay closing costs. Ask to fold half the closing costs into the loan?

Depends. Do you like the offer? Did they say how much closing costs were?

Edited September 30, 2022 by Neonmoon

[Pato del Muerto 52117]

Need to cap the closing costs, otherwise a desperate lender might throw 3 points up there and the buyer won’t give a shit. 

[KYHorn 16728]

1 hour ago, Gil Bang said:

other terms?  Does it say 30 year fixed, etc? 

Yeah, conventional 30 year. Just asking for closing and a survey of the property.

1 hour ago, Neonmoon said:

Depends. Do you like the offer? Did they say how much closing costs were?

Don't mind the offer. We put quite a bit of his money into it to fix it up back in the spring before the market turned on us. So, it's not as much as we hoped. Just wanting to get as much for him as possible, as this becomes a trust for him to survive on the rest of his life (he's disabled). We're waiting to hear back from title company on the net proceeds estimate. 

[Gil Bang 25689]

1 hour ago, KYHorn said:

Yeah, conventional 30 year. Just asking for closing and a survey of the property.

Don't mind the offer. We put quite a bit of his money into it to fix it up back in the spring before the market turned on us. So, it's not as much as we hoped. Just wanting to get as much for him as possible, as this becomes a trust for him to survive on the rest of his life (he's disabled). We're waiting to hear back from title company on the net proceeds estimate. 

Fucking realtors suck.  A seller's estimated net sheet should have been attached to the offer by your agent. 

[UTPhil2006 3773]

4 hours ago, KYHorn said:

Finally got an offer (asking price) on my brother's house. Their rate is "not to exceed 7%" 😳

Any recs for counter offer approaches? They're asking us to pay closing costs. Ask to fold half the closing costs into the loan?

Not a bad idea to say we will meet you halfway on the closing costs, increase your offer by x. 

[BearSchlong 8015]

Closed on Monday for 4.5%, 10% down and 1 point, 15 year conventional at my CU, and they kicked me $500 back in a promo.

Almost ran out of the 90 lock in period due to some shoddy estate lawyering but finally got it done.

I wasn’t really happy with the rate in the beginning, but now I’m happy.