All Encompassing Mortgage and Real Estate Thread

[jimmyjazz 45192]

Seems kinda shitty to re-date options on existing loans.  I'm not in the business, though, maybe this is common.

[Beantown Express 2.0 6513]

9 hours ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Closing a guy next week that was going to be doing that in 6 months. Guess it’s a year now. 

Can you explain this to me like I’m a second grader?  I literally just got news that my offer was accepted on a new house.  I was planning on putting a bunch down but still had a sizeable loan since I wasn’t taking the equity out of my current house as my offer was not contingent on me selling my current home.  I was told I could re finance or do something else a month or two later once my current home sells and dump the equity into this new home as to have a very small mortgage going forward versus a jumbo type loan.  Am I now not able to do this?  I will hang up and listen.

[Wulaw Horn 18918]

3 hours ago, Beantown Express 2.0 said:

Can you explain this to me like I’m a second grader?  I literally just got news that my offer was accepted on a new house.  I was planning on putting a bunch down but still had a sizeable loan since I wasn’t taking the equity out of my current house as my offer was not contingent on me selling my current home.  I was told I could re finance or do something else a month or two later once my current home sells and dump the equity into this new home as to have a very small mortgage going forward versus a jumbo type loan.  Am I now not able to do this?  I will hang up and listen.

No, you can still do that/ no problem, the day after you sell your house. What you can’t do is buy a house and do a cash out refinance without waiting a full year to be in title. 
my guy got the house in a divorce and he wasn’t on title (was wife’s separate property but he lived there for 20 years). She moved on and he got the house so we did a deed of trust to give her half the equity in the house and pay her off. Totally kosher. But, what he really wanted to do was borrow 80% of the value so he could also pay off the debts he racked up during their marriage. Because he wasn’t on title he couldn’t do that home equity. The plan was to clean it up in 6 months but now it looks like it will be a year before we can do that. That’s a pretty atypical situation. 
for a normal person like yourself this is unlikely to be a big deal. When it would happen is someone depletes all their savings perhaps to pay coach and then Decides- oh- I wish I had a mortgage bc my reserves were draw down or I want to do a renovation or I have another opportunity with my business- I will just got put a loan on my house. You now don’t have that option for a year. You can always refinance to pay down the debt with seasoning for time in title. So you are fine. 
 

[UTPhil2006 3768]

8 hours ago, Beantown Express 2.0 said:

Can you explain this to me like I’m a second grader?  I literally just got news that my offer was accepted on a new house.  I was planning on putting a bunch down but still had a sizeable loan since I wasn’t taking the equity out of my current house as my offer was not contingent on me selling my current home.  I was told I could re finance or do something else a month or two later once my current home sells and dump the equity into this new home as to have a very small mortgage going forward versus a jumbo type loan.  Am I now not able to do this?  I will hang up and listen.

You’re fine. In your instance you’re going to do a one time principal reduction. Depending on the lender it should be a small fee (couple hundred) and then you write a check (min 10k) towards principal. Super easy peasy. 

[Beantown Express 2.0 6513]

5 minutes ago, UTPhil2006 said:

You’re fine. In your instance you’re going to do a one time principal reduction. Depending on the lender it should be a small fee (couple hundred) and then you write a check (min 10k) towards principal. Super easy peasy. 

Thanks.  It seems like I have to do a jumbo loan to start with though for a month or two until my house sells but I don't want that long term so hopefully there is a way around that.

[Incredulity 11188]

Are Jumbo rates still cheaper?  This may work well.

[Beantown Express 2.0 6513]

They told me I want to avoid a jumbo loan as the rates are much higher.

[UTPhil2006 3768]

18 minutes ago, Beantown Express 2.0 said:

They told me I want to avoid a jumbo loan as the rates are much higher.

Shouldn’t be. I sent you a PM so I can check your scenario through a lender just to see what it says so I can better advise 

[Incredulity 11188]

Also, if you go this route be sure your loan allows a principal reduction and reamortization.

[Neonmoon 38126]

1 hour ago, Beantown Express 2.0 said:

They told me I want to avoid a jumbo loan as the rates are much higher.

Some lenders say all kinds of shit to avoid the hassle. (i.e, jumbo underwriting is more stringent compared to easy streamlined conventional. YMMV) 

[Catpfish 618]

Another option is to find someone that will hold the loan for a bit before selling it and then having them recast the loan. This is probably what was mentioned before but I've always heard the lenders calling it recasting

[Neonmoon 38126]

On 2/4/2023 at 8:40 AM, UTPhil2006 said:

You’re fine. In your instance you’re going to do a one time principal reduction. Depending on the lender it should be a small fee (couple hundred) and then you write a check (min 10k) towards principal. Super easy peasy. 

 

1 hour ago, Catpfish said:

Another option is to find someone that will hold the loan for a bit before selling it and then having them recast the loan. This is probably what was mentioned before but I've always heard the lenders calling it recasting

UTPhil already covered that option. It is called recasting. Depending on the servicer of the loan, you typically pay a fee (200-500) and there are minimum amounts (typically at least 10K). 

[Neonmoon 38126]

Um...is there a reason MBS are down 61 basis points already? 

[Catpfish 618]

22 hours ago, Neonmoon said:

 

UTPhil already covered that option. It is called recasting. Depending on the servicer of the loan, you typically pay a fee (200-500) and there are minimum amounts (typically at least 10K). 

I completely forgot to mention it in my post (posting from phone due to no power and think much faster than I can type), but my understanding is that recasting the loan will also cause a re-amortization of the loan resulting in a lower payment due to lower principal.  Is that not the case?  I only ask because it wasn't mentioned.

[Neonmoon 38126]

2 minutes ago, Catpfish said:

I completely forgot to mention it in my post (posting from phone due to no power and think much faster than I can type), but my understanding is that recasting the loan will also cause a re-amortization of the loan resulting in a lower payment due to lower principal.  Is that not the case?  I only ask because it wasn't mentioned.

[UTPhil2006 3768]

^^what he beautifully said 

Edited February 6, 2023 by UTPhil2006

[KYHorn 16710]

Random question. I work in higher ed and generally have summers and a month in winter off, along with a fairly flexible semester schedule. I'm considering options for different skills or jobs that I could do in these downtimes. Real estate appraisal has been on my list of possibilities. I'd be interested in work that I could choose to do or not to do and that gets me out of the house or away from the computer a bit (I already do that enough). I looked up the training and ed requirements for my state, and I suspect the 1k hrs of experience in at least 6 months (I assume alongside an appraisal supervisor) would be the biggest hurdle. Bad idea/good idea, general thoughts?

[Incredulity 11188]

12 minutes ago, KYHorn said:

Random question. I work in higher ed and generally have summers and a month in winter off, along with a fairly flexible semester schedule. I'm considering options for different skills or jobs that I could do in these downtimes. Real estate appraisal has been on my list of possibilities. I'd be interested in work that I could choose to do or not to do and that gets me out of the house or away from the computer a bit (I already do that enough). I looked up the training and ed requirements for my state, and I suspect the 1k hrs of experience in at least 6 months (I assume alongside an appraisal supervisor) would be the biggest hurdle. Bad idea/good idea, general thoughts?

Unless you have some sort of in with a couple realtors you are going to struggle to get appraisals part time, unless your talking about working for an appraisal company that wants part time help.

[UTPhil2006 3768]

Also appraisals are pretty computer intensive 

[Wulaw Horn 18918]

6 hours ago, KYHorn said:

Random question. I work in higher ed and generally have summers and a month in winter off, along with a fairly flexible semester schedule. I'm considering options for different skills or jobs that I could do in these downtimes. Real estate appraisal has been on my list of possibilities. I'd be interested in work that I could choose to do or not to do and that gets me out of the house or away from the computer a bit (I already do that enough). I looked up the training and ed requirements for my state, and I suspect the 1k hrs of experience in at least 6 months (I assume alongside an appraisal supervisor) would be the biggest hurdle. Bad idea/good idea, general thoughts?

Great idea. Sign up with an AMC and they will spam out requests for an appraisal and you can bid/pick and choose. 
go out, take pictures etc and that’s out of house time. You do write it up and I’m sure that’s 2-4 hours on computer depending upon how easy the comp and how proficient with software you are. Appraises are Old as fuck as a general rule. As a side hustle seems like a great deal. 

[Wulaw Horn 18918]

10 hours ago, Neonmoon said:

Um...is there a reason MBS are down 61 basis points already? 

Anyone figure this one out?  European central banks jawboning about inflation- this seems excessive for just that. 

[Neonmoon 38126]

12 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Anyone figure this one out?  European central banks jawboning about inflation- this seems excessive for just that. 

Seems like ECB inflation talk plus massive jobs report on Friday plus new round of treasury auctions 

Quote

Most of today's market movement was in the books within the first half hour of domestic trading.  As such, the end of day thoughts don't add much to the AM commentary.  Long story short, global markets are suddenly scared of what Powell may have to say at Tuesday's Q&A at a previously scheduled appearance.  Anxiety was/is amplified by the presence of a new round of 3/10/30yr Treasury auctions and a slew of corporate bond issuance adding to the supply side of the bond market equation for the week

 

[Wulaw Horn 18918]

1 minute ago, Neonmoon said:

Seems like ECB inflation talk plus massive jobs report on Friday plus new round of treasury auctions 

 

If you read the deep dive on the jobs report from Friday it was basically smoke and mirrors and seasonally adjusted bullshit per my guys at MBS highway. But yeah/ I think you nailed what the market thinks is going on. Back to 6.5 or something like that as the 30 year average as of tomorrow morning I suppose. Fun fun fun. 

[LCHorn 2559]

1 hour ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Appraises are Old as fuck as a general rule. As a side hustle seems like a great deal.

This-I read that the average age of someone on the mortgage side is 48 and that’s with the Loan Depot’s and Quicken’s of the world churning through a thousand 22 year old midwestern community college grads annually.  Appraiser average age has got to be in the 50’s, maybe late 50’s.  Plus you don’t age out of it like those of us in sales.

[Dbeasy 14783]

For what it’s worth, a seasoned bond trader I know has been consistently and forcefully saying that rates will rise higher and stayed elevated longer than anyone on the street is currently predicting.  

[Neonmoon 38126]

8 minutes ago, LCHorn said:

This-I read that the average age of someone on the mortgage side is 48 and that’s with the Loan Depot’s and Quicken’s of the world churning through a thousand 22 year old midwestern community college grads annually.  Appraiser average age has got to be in the 50’s, maybe late 50’s.  Plus you don’t age out of it like those of us in sales.

I’ve seen some of the houses appraisers have to go. No thank you 

[BabaYaga 15171]

On 2/6/2023 at 10:57 AM, KYHorn said:

Random question. I work in higher ed and generally have summers and a month in winter off, along with a fairly flexible semester schedule. I'm considering options for different skills or jobs that I could do in these downtimes. Real estate appraisal has been on my list of possibilities. I'd be interested in work that I could choose to do or not to do and that gets me out of the house or away from the computer a bit (I already do that enough). I looked up the training and ed requirements for my state, and I suspect the 1k hrs of experience in at least 6 months (I assume alongside an appraisal supervisor) would be the biggest hurdle. Bad idea/good idea, general thoughts?

RE appraisers require 2,000 hours of unpaid "apprenticeship/training".  That in itself is not necessarily difficult.  What's harder is finding someone to sponsor you in a tight market, knowing they're training another person that will take orders away from them.

There are newer AMCs like Aloft that are building out panel appraisers predicated on the plan of them both completing orders and training the next generation of appraisers.  Many of the new valuation products don't require a licensed appraiser to complete.  Technology options like Cubi Casa for example

[Wulaw Horn 18918]

4 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

RE appraisers require 2,000 hours of unpaid "apprenticeship/training".  That in itself is not necessarily difficult.  What's harder is finding someone to sponsor you in a tight market, knowing they're training another person that will take orders away from them.

There are newer AMCs like Aloft that are building out panel appraisers predicated on the plan of them both completing orders and training the next generation of appraisers.  Many of the new valuation products don't require a licensed appraiser to complete.  Technology options like Cubi Casa for example

You are talking about texas- not sure if Ky horn means Kentucky or not so it might be different on the requirements. 
there were a couple places that were hiring people during training process and paying them. Not market wage necessary, but not terrible either. 

[BabaYaga 15171]

It's not a bad option, especially for a younger person to get into early.  The money in a strong market can be substantial.  Keep in mind many of the AMCs that tout tens of thousands of appraisers on their panel, they only really use a fraction of them.  Their allocations from the lenders are predicated on their TT's and scorecards, so they almost always default to the top guys, making it harder for the newer guys to get orders

[KYHorn 16710]

17 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

RE appraisers require 2,000 hours of unpaid "apprenticeship/training".  That in itself is not necessarily difficult.  What's harder is finding someone to sponsor you in a tight market, knowing they're training another person that will take orders away from them.

There are newer AMCs like Aloft that are building out panel appraisers predicated on the plan of them both completing orders and training the next generation of appraisers.  Many of the new valuation products don't require a licensed appraiser to complete.  Technology options like Cubi Casa for example

 

11 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

You are talking about texas- not sure if Ky horn means Kentucky or not so it might be different on the requirements. 
there were a couple places that were hiring people during training process and paying them. Not market wage necessary, but not terrible either. 

 

8 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

It's not a bad option, especially for a younger person to get into early.  The money in a strong market can be substantial.  Keep in mind many of the AMCs that tout tens of thousands of appraisers on their panel, they only really use a fraction of them.  Their allocations from the lenders are predicated on their TT's and scorecards, so they almost always default to the top guys, making it harder for the newer guys to get orders

Thanks for the insight. Yes, in Kentucky it's 1k hrs to get the "licensed" residential credential. 1.5k for "certified residential" and 2k for "certified general".

We're friends with a top realtor in our area, so if I decide to move forward, I'll reach out to him to get contacts with appraisers. Hopefully that'll be enough. I'm 34. Sometimes older guys don't mind a little mentoring dynamic and maybe aren't so concerned about competition. I also don't know how competitive it is in my area. All good considerations for me to look into.

Edited February 8, 2023 by KYHorn

[Incredulity 11188]

5 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

The money in a strong market can be substantial. 

Saw this in the early 2000's boom.  Good friends brother was raking it in, started his own shop staffed up and was really making serious money.  The music stopped and he ended up BK.  My buddy was very close to quitting his banking job to sign on with his brother when the shit hit the fan.

[BabaYaga 15171]

5 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

Saw this in the early 2000's boom.  Good friends brother was raking it in, started his own shop staffed up and was really making serious money.  The music stopped and he ended up BK.  My buddy was very close to quitting his banking job to sign on with his brother when the shit hit the fan.

I have a friend that is president of the AMC LRES.  He said during the covid insanity and orders flooding the market he offered an appraiser a salary to help cover Houston of $400K and the guy turned him down.  Atypical, sure - but still wild to think about.  

[Wulaw Horn 18918]

3 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

I have a friend that is president of the AMC LRES.  He said during the covid insanity and orders flooding the market he offered an appraiser a salary to help cover Houston of $400K and the guy turned him down.  Atypical, sure - but still wild to think about.  

Oh yeah/ you literally could make as much money as you wanted to work during covid. 
As I side hustle I don’t see how a person could ever lose money let alone go bankrupt. Seems like a great side job to me. 

[BabaYaga 15171]

2 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Oh yeah/ you literally could make as much money as you wanted to work during covid. 
As I side hustle I don’t see how a person could ever lose money let alone go bankrupt. Seems like a great side job to me. 

There are also places like Mueller/Aloft that have a staff appraiser model, ie., you are on salary and not 1099

I have a good friend that is the Director @ Quicktrak Inc.  PM me and I can put you in touch with him (old appraiser himself)

[Incredulity 11188]

My friend's brother was pretty much central casting from the housing boom.  I only met him a few times, but he was really ramping up his lifestyle 04-05.  I vividly remember him describing how simple(and profitable) the "drive by appraisal" was.  Easy money as they say.

[Wulaw Horn 18918]

3 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

There are also places like Mueller/Aloft that have a staff appraiser model, ie., you are on salary and not 1099

I have a good friend that is the Director @ Quicktrak Inc.  PM me and I can put you in touch with him (old appraiser himself)

Out of curiosity- those salaried guys- do they allow you to work part time while you are getting to your 1000 hours as a sponsor?  I don’t know if it would be worth it for an old guy trying to moonlight to do that/ but if I had a 22 year old I was trying to get in the business that would be my first recommendation. 

1 minute ago, Incredulity said:

My friend's brother was pretty much central casting from the housing boom.  I only met him a few times, but he was really ramping up his lifestyle 04-05.  I vividly remember him describing how simple(and profitable) the "drive by appraisal" was.  Easy money as they say.

Oh it was. Sounds like he just built an unsustainable model/life. 

[BabaYaga 15171]

Just now, Wulaw Horn said:

Out of curiosity- those salaried guys- do they allow you to work part time while you are getting to your 1000 hours as a sponsor?  I don’t know if it would be worth it for an old guy trying to moonlight to do that/ but if I had a 22 year old I was trying to get in the business that would be my first recommendation. 

I'd guess they would

*and that's why my 16yr old is being pushed in that direction.  He can get his hours while in college and have options when he graduates

[Incredulity 11188]

1 minute ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Oh it was. Sounds like he just built an unsustainable model/life. 

absolutely.  "housing prices never go down", amirite.

[Neonmoon 38126]

Yeah, I know some appraisers who even say they're getting out of the business now due to low demand right now. 

[BabaYaga 15171]

3 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

My friend's brother was pretty much central casting from the housing boom.  I only met him a few times, but he was really ramping up his lifestyle 04-05.  I vividly remember him describing how simple(and profitable) the "drive by appraisal" was.  Easy money as they say.

If the agencies tighten back up on their PIW requirements (which they quietly relaxed during covid), the order volume will increase despite market conditions.  

[BabaYaga 15171]

3 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

absolutely.  "housing prices never go down", amirite.

[LCHorn 2559]

2 hours ago, BabaYaga said:

If the agencies tighten back up on their PIW requirements (which they quietly relaxed during covid), the order volume will increase despite market conditions.  

I think they are going to do it if their internals show market value deterioration (the fact they haven’t with all their data might support an argument that they don’t believe real property values have fallen).    

[BabaYaga 15171]

9 minutes ago, LCHorn said:

I think they are going to do it if their internals show market value deterioration (the fact they haven’t with all their data might support an argument that they don’t believe real property values have fallen).    

They have aggregated so much data over the last few years I agree, things are going to have to change.  Overlay that with a significant housing shortage and values are going to be strong for quite a while.  

I have a friend who's a high level exec @ BAC, he's hearing word that the buyers (for the builders) for construction material are quietly ramping up and hoarding more and more material.  Permits don't tell the whole story as the transaction has to be implemented.  Looking at the buyers and their attitudes gives a better forecast on what we think we'll see 

[Gil Bang 25651]

On 2/6/2023 at 5:17 PM, Neonmoon said:

I’ve seen some of the houses appraisers have to go. No thank you 

9 hours ago, Wulaw Horn said:

You are talking about texas- not sure if Ky horn means Kentucky or not so it might be different on the requirements. 
there were a couple places that were hiring people during training process and paying them. Not market wage necessary, but not terrible either. 

 

 

I just assumed he likes to use KY Jelly 

 

[Wulaw Horn 18918]

13 minutes ago, Gil Bang said:

 

 

I just assumed he likes to use KY Jelly 

 

That’s because you are a perv and I am a man at ease in a house of learned doctors. It is Kentucky. 

[Neonmoon 38126]

9 hours ago, Neonmoon said:

Yeah, I know some appraisers who even say they're getting out of the business now due to low demand right now. 

It’s been a rough year for everyone 

[KYHorn 16710]

13 hours ago, Wulaw Horn said:

That’s because you are a perv and I am a man at ease in a house of learned doctors. It is Kentucky. 

I wish I could say I considered the KY jelly connection when I created the account, but maybe I'm a learned doctor as well.

[KYHorn 16710]

12 hours ago, Neonmoon said:

It’s been a rough year for everyone 

Hey, at least we seem to be on the upswing!

[Neonmoon 38126]

MBS down 47 basis points. 

Thanks Bond Auction

[Wulaw Horn 18918]

17 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

MBS down 47 basis points. 

Thanks Bond Auction

Very glad I locked my dude last night. Would have been carnage if I tried to float