All Encompassing Mortgage and Real Estate Thread

[Neonmoon 38129]

The smart money says low 5s by end of year. The smart money can predict the future as well as my left nut, so anywhere between 3 and 9 

[UTPhil2006 3806]

33 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

The smart money says low 5s by end of year. The smart money can predict the future as well as my left nut, so anywhere between 3 and 9 

So the rate market is employing my craps strategy. Bold move. 

[Gil Bang 25922]

So, I found an insurance policy for my client.  $960 for the year.  Not bad IMO

[Chewbacca 7767]

On 4/15/2023 at 12:32 PM, Gil Bang said:

My deal has hit a snag. 

The buyer can't find any insurance that will cover a 2nd home.   My insurance guy struck out too.  If it's tenant-occupied, there's no problem, but the 2nd home sitting empty most of the time is a no-go. 

Try Safeco.  They insure my (non-rented) second home.

[Wulaw Horn 19068]

1 hour ago, Gil Bang said:

So, I found an insurance policy for my client.  $960 for the year.  Not bad IMO

Not a surprise. That sounded like nonsense. 

[HamsterHookah 112]

Wait, is this real? You pay more with good credit?

https://nypost.com/2023/04/16/how-the-us-is-subsidizing-high-risk-homebuyers-at-the-cost-of-those-with-good-credit/

A little-noticed revamp of federal rules on mortgage fees will offer discounted rates for home buyers with riskier credit backgrounds — and force higher-credit homebuyers to foot the bill, The Post has learned.

Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac will enact changes to fees known as loan-level price adjustments (LLPAs) on May 1 that will affect mortgages originating at private banks nationwide, from Wells Fargo to JPMorgan Chase, effectively tweaking interest rates paid by the vast majority of homebuyers.

The result, according to industry pros: pricier monthly mortgage payments for most homebuyers — an ugly surprise for those who worked for years to build their credit, only to face higher costs than they expected as part of a housing affordability push by the US Federal Housing Finance Agency.

“It’s going to be a challenge trying to explain to somebody that says, ‘I worked my whole life for high credit and I’ve put a lot of money down and you’re telling me that’s a negative now?’ That’s a hard conversation to have,” one worried Arizona-based mortgage loan originator told The Post.

“It’s unprecedented,” added David Stevens, who served as Federal Housing Administration commissioner during the Obama administration. “My email is full from mortgage companies and CEOs [telling] me how unbelievably shocked they are by this move.” 

[DalTxHornFan 3097]

5 minutes ago, HamsterHookah said:

Wait, is this real? You pay more with good credit?

https://nypost.com/2023/04/16/how-the-us-is-subsidizing-high-risk-homebuyers-at-the-cost-of-those-with-good-credit/

A little-noticed revamp of federal rules on mortgage fees will offer discounted rates for home buyers with riskier credit backgrounds — and force higher-credit homebuyers to foot the bill, The Post has learned.

Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac will enact changes to fees known as loan-level price adjustments (LLPAs) on May 1 that will affect mortgages originating at private banks nationwide, from Wells Fargo to JPMorgan Chase, effectively tweaking interest rates paid by the vast majority of homebuyers.

The result, according to industry pros: pricier monthly mortgage payments for most homebuyers — an ugly surprise for those who worked for years to build their credit, only to face higher costs than they expected as part of a housing affordability push by the US Federal Housing Finance Agency.

“It’s going to be a challenge trying to explain to somebody that says, ‘I worked my whole life for high credit and I’ve put a lot of money down and you’re telling me that’s a negative now?’ That’s a hard conversation to have,” one worried Arizona-based mortgage loan originator told The Post.

“It’s unprecedented,” added David Stevens, who served as Federal Housing Administration commissioner during the Obama administration. “My email is full from mortgage companies and CEOs [telling] me how unbelievably shocked they are by this move.” 

Get with the program, Comrade. That is just how "Equity" works.  Some are more equal than others.

[HamsterHookah 112]

7 minutes ago, DalTxHornFan said:

Get with the program, Comrade. That is just how "Equity" works.  Some are more equal than others.

I've only seen it on twitter so what I'm asking is, is it parody/fake or real.

Surely we would have discussed it on this thread and I've had heard of the pushback by now if it were real, is my thinking...the only websites I've seen it on were a screengrab of fox news and this new york post.

Edited April 21, 2023 by HamsterHookah

[LCHorn 2615]

No, it’s real but the additional cost for someone with good credit is small.  We’re not really complaining about it because a) we’re more concerned about fighting the pricing adjustment they want to institute for DTI’s above 45% and b) these adjustments are all small stuff compared to 6% interest rates.  
 

Who is really getting fucked, relative to previous LLPA’s, are those looking to refinance.  That’s not an issue right now but it’s going to mean buyers today have to wait even longer in an improving rate environment before a refinance makes sense.  

[UTPhil2006 3806]

3 minutes ago, LCHorn said:

No, it’s real but the additional cost for someone with good credit is small.  We’re not really complaining about it because a) we’re more concerned about fighting the pricing adjustment they want to institute for DTI’s above 45% and b) these adjustments are all small stuff compared to 6% interest rates.  
 

Who is really getting fucked, relative to previous LLPA’s, are those looking to refinance.  That’s not an issue right now but it’s going to mean buyers today have to wait even longer in an improving rate environment before a refinance makes sense.  

This. Except it’s 40% DTI. Most loans don’t qualify period above 45

[DalTxHornFan 3097]

7 minutes ago, UTPhil2006 said:

This. Except it’s 40% DTI. Most loans don’t qualify period above 45

As they shouldn't!  I seem to recall 28% being the magic number in the early 1980s.

[LCHorn 2615]

44 minutes ago, UTPhil2006 said:

This. Except it’s 40% DTI. Most loans don’t qualify period above 45

Yes, thanks for catching that. 

[gurt 748]

1 hour ago, DalTxHornFan said:

As they shouldn't!  I seem to recall 28% being the magic number in the early 1980s.

No longer feasible for the majority of Americans.  A house in 1983 was 3x annual income, now its 5+

[Neonmoon 38129]

This was announced in March. Why the freak out today? Did I miss a tweet from a Kardashian? 

[UTPhil2006 3806]

16 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

This was announced in March. Why the freak out today? Did I miss a tweet from a Kardashian? 

It’s coming up, and to be fair new shit his the tan weekly in the interim. 

[UTPhil2006 3806]

From todays Mortgage News Daily.. answers all your questions 

https://www.mortgagenewsdaily.com/markets/mortgage-rates-04212023

[Wulaw Horn 19068]

2 hours ago, Neonmoon said:

This was announced in March. Why the freak out today? Did I miss a tweet from a Kardashian? 

Washington examiner ran an article on Sunday. Then everyone got on it and it got traction. Not sure why they ran an article on Sunday but that’s the timeline near as I can tell. 

[Gil Bang 25922]

55 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Washington examiner ran an article on Sunday. Then everyone got on it and it got traction. Not sure why they ran an article on Sunday but that’s the timeline near as I can tell. 

GF just came in.  She listened to AM talk radio on her drive home, and guess what the host was raging about?   And of course, the callers were all outraged too. 

I'm sure y'all can imagine it just like it actually sounded. 

 

[Wulaw Horn 19068]

1 hour ago, Gil Bang said:

GF just came in.  She listened to AM talk radio on her drive home, and guess what the host was raging about?   And of course, the callers were all outraged too. 

I'm sure y'all can imagine it just like it actually sounded. 

 

I mean- it was stupid and pointless and dumb. 620 people should be on an FHA loan and they lowered the Mi for that and it’s an easier qualify. No reason to put them in a conventional bucket and absolutely no reason to punish the best buyers during this time where the industry is dying and further absolutely no reason to make loan level adjustments based upon DTI. 
but yeah- I doubt most people out there have a sufficient knowledge base to actually understand what’s going on. 
but, make no mistake I don’t think anyone in the industry is happy about it or thinks it’s a good idea. 

[jimmyjazz 45893]

2 hours ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Washington examiner

Giant clue #1.

[Wulaw Horn 19068]

2 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Giant clue #1.

What they reported wasn’t wrong in any way. Why it was reported now versus when it came out versus when it was going into effect I have zero knowledge or understanding of. 
it would be a bad program and a dumb idea if it was reported by MSNBC or by Pravda. 

[Neonmoon 38129]

Not saying I disagree with the conclusions, but I knew it was outrage day when my mother called me about it. 

[Gravy Train 974]

LLPAs on Investment AND second home purchases are looking pretty ugly too, where they both follow the same schedule at +4.125% for LTVs of 80.01 - >95%, and never fall below 1.125%.

[Neonmoon 38129]

5 minutes ago, Gravy Train said:

LLPAs on Investment AND second home purchases are looking pretty ugly too, where they both follow the same schedule at +4.125% for LTVs of 80.01 - >95%, and never fall below 1.125%.

Second Home/Investment got kneecapped back in Feb 2022

[Gravy Train 974]

1 hour ago, Wulaw Horn said:

I mean- it was stupid and pointless and dumb. 620 people should be on an FHA loan and they lowered the Mi for that and it’s an easier qualify. No reason to put them in a conventional bucket and absolutely no reason to punish the best buyers during this time where the industry is dying and further absolutely no reason to make loan level adjustments based upon DTI. 
but yeah- I doubt most people out there have a sufficient knowledge base to actually understand what’s going on. 
but, make no mistake I don’t think anyone in the industry is happy about it or thinks it’s a good idea. 

Looking at the announcement again, it looks like borrowers with credit scores above 780 aren't impacted all the way up to 75% LTV, and scores between 760-779 aren't touched up to 70% LTV.  Still, this seems shortsighted as if it were drafted in 2021 and Fannie pushed it through anyhow without realizing the market is dead... or there's really no buyer for MBS.

[Wulaw Horn 19068]

11 hours ago, Gravy Train said:

Looking at the announcement again, it looks like borrowers with credit scores above 780 aren't impacted all the way up to 75% LTV, and scores between 760-779 aren't touched up to 70% LTV.  Still, this seems shortsighted as if it were drafted in 2021 and Fannie pushed it through anyhow without realizing the market is dead... or there's really no buyer for MBS.

Yeah I consider anyone above 740 “best buyer” but I guess now we need to consider 780 a super class of borrower. Which is stupid because the typical 740-779 has never had a late payment and has pretty responsible debt usage all the way down the line. Lots of times the difference is the dude that makes plenty and has a 20k card that he pays off e wry month but runs up 6k a month for his airline points even though he balance pays. 

11 hours ago, Neonmoon said:

Not saying I disagree with the conclusions, but I knew it was outrage day when my mother called me about it. 

Same. I had 7 texts from different people asking if this was true. All within 24 hours. 

[Wulaw Horn 19068]

11 hours ago, Neonmoon said:

Second Home/Investment got kneecapped back in Feb 2022

I didn’t super agree with that but I get it. It’s a choice I wouldn’t have made in these economic times but it’s justifiable to essentially say the gov’t isn’t going to subsidize in any way second or investment homes, but those guys weren’t ever defaulting so whatever. 

Edited April 22, 2023 by Wulaw Horn

[UTPhil2006 3806]

2 hours ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Yeah I consider anyone above 740 “best buyer” but I guess now we need to consider 780 a super class of borrower. Which is stupid because the typical 740-779 has never had a late payment and has pretty responsible debt usage all the way down the line. Lots of times the difference is the dude that makes plenty and has a 20k card that he pays off e wry month but runs up 6k a month for his airline points even though he balance pays. 

Same. I had 7 texts from different people asking if this was true. All within 24 hours. 

Yep the realtor and group texts were blowing up yesterday. Finally just copy pasted my answers 

[Nonbryan 173]

I found a house and the current owner said he was willing to FSBO.  Not sure where to start here. He said give him a number.  Is there a best form I should use or should we just talk it out. The win win here is we both save 3%, right?  What am I missing? 

[jimmyjazz 45893]

13 minutes ago, Nonbryan said:

I found a house and the current owner said he was willing to FSBO.  Not sure where to start here. He said give him a number.  Is there a best form I should use or should we just talk it out. The win win here is we both save 3%, right?  What am I missing? 

No, the seller saves 6% (theoreticall).

The question becomes "6% of what?"

[Neonmoon 38129]

9 hours ago, Nonbryan said:

I found a house and the current owner said he was willing to FSBO.  Not sure where to start here. He said give him a number.  Is there a best form I should use or should we just talk it out. The win win here is we both save 3%, right?  What am I missing? 

Get a realtor. If you can’t afford the 3%, you can find one that will do it for less, 2%, 1%, flat fee. If you have realtor friends, they can do you a solid. 

if you are broke and have no realtor friends, then Surly can probably bootstrap you through the process. 

[KYHorn 17017]

37 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

Get a realtor. If you can’t afford the 3%, you can find one that will do it for less, 2%, 1%, flat fee. If you have realtor friends, they can do you a solid. 

if you are broke and have no realtor friends, then Surly can probably bootstrap you through the process. 

You can probably help your case by telling them you've already found a house, but just need help formalizing a deal

[UTPhil2006 3806]

13 hours ago, Nonbryan said:

I found a house and the current owner said he was willing to FSBO.  Not sure where to start here. He said give him a number.  Is there a best form I should use or should we just talk it out. The win win here is we both save 3%, right?  What am I missing? 

The seller will save 6% but what you can do is run comps and then take 6% off. Something along those lines. As far as the contract and making sure everything is on the up and up we can help you with that for a small flat fee. If you wanna email me we can take a look at everything phil@reihomerealty.com

[Gil Bang 25922]

you guys want a chuckle?

SHOT

Here's a wife, speaking to the city council: 

"When we first bought property here in Winnetka in the summer of 2020, we thought that we would be able to send our son to kindergarten here. Unfortunately, as time passes by, we are unable to build our home," Ishbia said. "Our children are missing out on being able to attend school here, play in our yard, and make friends in the neighborhood. They are missing out on being able to live our dream of a quiet authentic suburban life."

 

CHASER

They're building a 68,000 square foot mansion on 4 acres fronting Lake Michigan

 

https://patch.com/illinois/winnetka/billionaires-winnetka-home-be-most-expensive-illinois-history?utm_source=fark&utm_medium=website&utm_content=link&ICID=ref_fark

 

 

 

 

[UTPhil2006 3806]

Soon as I saw Ishbia I was like yep I know where this is going. His brother runs UWM. Tell him to tell his wife to stfu 

[UT_OB1 2217]

There has to be an extra zero there, right?  Tf do you do with 68k sqft? I can’t even imagine 10k. 

Edited April 23, 2023 by UT_OB1

[Wulaw Horn 19068]

9 minutes ago, UT_OB1 said:

There has to be an extra zero there, right?  Tf do you do with 68k sqft? I can’t even imagine 10k. 

Do you even entertain bro?  
Ever heard of servant quarters?  
I imagine there is a movie theater room and an indoor bowling alley or basketball court or swimming pool or all of the above. 

[LCHorn 2615]

What kind of Philistine has the money to build that much house and chooses to live in Michigan?!?!??

[Nonbryan 173]

Thanks for the insight on the FSBO purchase all.  The seller wants a price of a lifetime and I don't think it's a smart play for us.  We are going to move on.

[Gil Bang 25922]

25 minutes ago, Nonbryan said:

Thanks for the insight on the FSBO purchase all.  The seller wants a price of a lifetime and I don't think it's a smart play for us.  We are going to move on.

Do you really like the house?  

 

Get a good realtor (we actually exist) to contact the seller, and show him the ACTUAL value of his house, and present an offer that is in that ballpark.

[Wulaw Horn 19068]

43 minutes ago, LCHorn said:

What kind of Philistine has the money to build that much house and chooses to live in Michigan?!?!??

To be fair if you read the blurb it is Illinois. Still, same same, but different, but same same. 

[Gil Bang 25922]

Winnekta is a fucking crazy fancy area. 

[jimmyjazz 45893]

Lakefront property on the north side of Chicago is generally gorgeous.  Good luck in the winter, but other than that, it's a beautiful place to be.

What exactly is preventing Billionaire Barbie from building her dream home so she can run kiddos back and forth in the Honda Odyssey?

[LCHorn 2615]

1 hour ago, Wulaw Horn said:

To be fair if you read the blurb it is Illinois. Still, same same, but different, but same same. 

Haha, I spent about five seconds after I posted that wondering if it was another Great Lakes state and then decided they are all varying levels of crappy.  The only reason to build big there is to make your childhood friends who didn't leave the area jealous. 

There's just no reason to not live in Southern California if you have that kind of money.  Or Paris, Mexico City, NYC, etc...

[UTPhil2006 3806]

11 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

Lakefront property on the north side of Chicago is generally gorgeous.  Good luck in the winter, but other than that, it's a beautiful place to be.

What exactly is preventing Billionaire Barbie from building her dream home so she can run kiddos back and forth in the Honda Odyssey?

Then she can’t feign sadness for attention whoring 

[Incredulity 11657]

 

Wait, thats a puffy jacket under a sports coat.  WTF?

[jimmyjazz 45893]

16 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

Wait, thats a puffy jacket under a sports coat.  WTF?

Pretty spotty on the beard front as well.

[Gil Bang 25922]

I don't know what the fuck is going on with my deal.

The buyers cannot get loan docs because they have some type of fraud locks on their credit reports that can only be removed by mail?  WTF?

 

[Wulaw Horn 19068]

14 minutes ago, Gil Bang said:

I don't know what the fuck is going on with my deal.

The buyers cannot get loan docs because they have some type of fraud locks on their credit reports that can only be removed by mail?  WTF?

 

That's weird. I've never had that happen with a fraud deal- they've always been able to just call or do it online.  

[Wulaw Horn 19068]

Late Dates: 3/23-120, 2/23-F, 1/23-F, 12/22-F, 11/22-F, 10/22-F, 9/22-F, 8/22-F, 7/22-F, 6/22-F, 5/22-F, 4/22-F, 3/22-F, 2/22-F, 1/22-F,
12/21-F, 11/21-F, 10/21-F, 9/21-F, 8/21-F, 7/21-F, 6/21-F, 5/21-F, 4/21-F, 3/21-F, 4/19-120, 3/19-120
FORECLOSURE; REAL ESTATE MORTGAGE; FIXED RATE

 

OK- Surly mortgage guys- you ever see something like this on a credit report?  My guy got foreclosed (he says- I'm doing reasearch) in 2019.  House was done after Harvey and took 2 years to catch up to him I guess.  It looks to me like they are still report this as a rolling 120 day late and a foreclosure.  only 2 of the 3 bureaus. Are they allowed to do this?  Shouldn't it have to stay in time where it was in 2019 and now he's 4 years out and healing?  21st Mortgage is the outfit. I've never heard of them.  Am I reading this wrong?

What say you?