All Encompassing Mortgage and Real Estate Thread

[Wulaw Horn 19052]

1 minute ago, Neonmoon said:

Congrats on the big month!

Send him an invoice for the credit report and credit repair 😂 

Thanks. 
If ever there was a time to get fired twice in the span of 2 days it was this time for sure. 
It’s just startling to me that someone would go ingrate over $10 a month in a 9 month relationship and that the other person would throw away certainty to close. 

[WBT 20534]

On 5/4/2024 at 11:09 PM, Etexhorn13 said:

How difficult would it be to remove the escrow payments from my mortgage and instead put that money in say a Merrill Lynch account that I use to pay off my taxes once a year so I can at least get some interest that money. 

I paid 20% down so never had to do it but the whole concept of escrow to pay your bills early is weird to me.  

[Surly Bevo 24889]

2 hours ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Thanks. 
If ever there was a time to get fired twice in the span of 2 days it was this time for sure. 
It’s just startling to me that someone would go ingrate over $10 a month in a 9 month relationship and that the other person would throw away certainty to close. 

People are dumb....you know this.  

[Mother mopar 3311]

Just got fired twice in the last 2 business days. 
one a guy I’d worked with on a new build (so I was expecting fuckery) for about 9 months- got the credit up- for him qualified when they couldn’t blah blah blah, and he left over $10 a month. 
the other guy that just fired me was turned down a couple different places until I got him approved (had a lender make 2 exceptions about some difficult stuff while we were shopping and that got his debt ratio down to 49.8) because he got offered 1/4 of a point better. Now- his wife was on the job self employed 18 months and they are a super slam dunk easy loan once they file taxes in 25 and I told him I’d pay all his fees and refinance him for free at my cheapest lender at that time. 
$924.00 on his timeline is what it will cost him. 
I never get fired. I was on my way to the biggest month I’d had since early 2022 so it’s not that big a deal (the other 10 people I’ve got locked for May haven’t fired me yet!) I’m sitting here with a bemused smile on my face. 
Question for the board (if this guy who’s been turned down multiple times comes back should I close him?  

Some people will trip over a dime to pick up a penny.

[ClubWhatever 12105]

6 hours ago, Wulaw Horn said:

It’s just startling to me that someone would go ingrate over $10 a month in a 9 month relationship

I don't think most clients view their interaction with you as a relationship, all conversation notwithstanding.   It's all bullshit.  You are a dispensary.  Like a coke machine.  One that requires emails and phone calls.

[Wulaw Horn 19052]

5 hours ago, ClubWhatever said:

I don't think most clients view their interaction with you as a relationship, all conversation notwithstanding.   It's all bullshit.  You are a dispensary.  Like a coke machine.  One that requires emails and phone calls.

I guess. I don’t mean that we are friends or anything in that sense of the word, but yeah, you are completely right for some. 
it’s a great gig and I’ve actually formed real relationships with some of my borrowers and a bunch of advisor client relationships. 

[UTPhil2006 3797]

11 hours ago, WBT said:

I paid 20% down so never had to do it but the whole concept of escrow to pay your bills early is weird to me.  

Escrow is different than MI. Escrow is basically an account that pays your taxes and insurance for you with your monthly note. 

[Neonmoon 38129]

Yeah...paying your bills monthly instead of in a lump sum seems pretty normal. 

 

[Neonmoon 38129]

11 hours ago, ClubWhatever said:

I don't think most clients view their interaction with you as a relationship, all conversation notwithstanding.   It's all bullshit.  You are a dispensary.  Like a coke machine.  One that requires emails and phone calls.

To be fair, as a lender, this is one reason I think about leaving the business. The money is not great in this market, but the way I'm treated by some, especially some realtors, makes me think about finding a different career path. To be clear, I don't mind clients shopping or realtors sending their business to whomever they want, but being berated for not making [things out of my control] happen. The juice is not worth the squeeze. People treat anyone in a service role like shit these days. 

Edited May 7 by Neonmoon

[LTtxfan 49084]

57 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

The juice is not worth the squeeze. People treat anyone in a service role like shit these days. 

Yeah just as bad in the financial advisor world.  CFP managing a family members investments who just brought him another $500k account, doesn't like any questions regarding how he invests the money.  

And he and his administrative staff keep tripping over their dicks on the paperwork for these accounts held at Schwab.  Doesn't like the extra paperwork for TOD that avoids probate for their heirs.

Asshole...

 

Edited May 7 by LTtxfan
Damn autocorrect

[Eastwood 4394]

1 hour ago, Neonmoon said:

To be fair, as a lender, this is one reason I think about leaving the business. The money is not great in this market, but the way I'm treated by some, especially some realtors, makes me think about finding a different career path. To be clear, I don't mind clients shopping or realtors sending their business to whomever they want, but being berated for not making [things out of my control] happen. The juice is not worth the squeeze. People treat anyone in a service role like shit these days. 

This is exactly why I got out. The work is interesting and challenging enough, the pay can be decent if you’re busy, but good lord do bad realtors and clients take all the joy out of it. A good realtor is an absolute blessing and there are some great ones out there, but God have mercy the bad ones are so bad that they cause good people to change careers. And the ironic thing about that is the bad realtors are pushed out during hard times, so they stick around just long enough to run good people on the service side off. Then the market recovers and the good realtors have to deal with understaffed title and mortgage. 

Edited May 7 by Eastwood

[UTGrad98 2269]

3 hours ago, Neonmoon said:

 The juice is not worth the squeeze. People treat anyone in a service role like shit these days. 

Don't go into healthcare. Patients can be... less than pleasant. 

[Wulaw Horn 19052]

3 hours ago, Neonmoon said:

To be fair, as a lender, this is one reason I think about leaving the business. The money is not great in this market, but the way I'm treated by some, especially some realtors, makes me think about finding a different career path. To be clear, I don't mind clients shopping or realtors sending their business to whomever they want, but being berated for not making [things out of my control] happen. The juice is not worth the squeeze. People treat anyone in a service role like shit these days. 

I hate to hear that as your experience.  I love my job.  I love almost all my clients.  I like helping them.  My referral partners are pretty good people for the most part.  This stuff was not how things usually go down and really not that big a deal in the grand scheme of things but it wasn't the greatest 1/2 punch ever.  It was 1.2M in volume all told. Win some/lose some but yeah- what your describing sucks- have you thought about why that's happening?  Are you working with referral partners that are assholes?  Desperate people can suck for sure.  Lots of people have left the business- you seem like a guy that should not leave the business with the success you've had during some pretty hard times. 

[Neonmoon 38129]

Yeah, I’m doing fine in this market, especially compared to some others. As to the experience, I do work with a lot of newer realtors as one would expect, being newer myself. So maybe it’s a little baked in. I like the job. I like helping people. Most clients are fine, but there is some entitlement out there, as if they are shopping at Walmart, and everyone is an expert these days. 

[LCHorn 2590]

On 5/6/2024 at 6:36 PM, Wulaw Horn said:

Question for the board (if this guy who’s been turned down multiple times comes back should I close him?

Sure, it’s money.  It’s all in the game.  
 

I will say that this is the reason my wife thinks our line of work sucks.  “You do all this work for them and then they can leave you whenever they want?!?!”

I said this upthread but I’ve experimented with all kinds of different scripting on the front end and none of it dissuades someone hell bent on getting the cheapest deal and willing to be ruthless to obtain it.  

5 hours ago, Neonmoon said:

To be clear, I don't mind clients shopping or realtors sending their business to whomever they want, but being berated for not making [things out of my control] happen.

I used to absorb a lot of this but had some mentoring that led to a far more effective approach.  First, if you are clearly to blame and there’s not a scapegoat, own it.  If it’s something small and you think it you can win accountability points, maybe own it.

Everything else there needs to be a patsy or another party to blame.  Some of that needs to be sincere, because you have your shit together and don’t make mistakes, but there’s a lot of gray in this business and you need to pass off blame if there’s multiple parties at fault or if it’s due to your inability to foresee 100,000 different outcomes.  Borrower dragged their feet for two weeks upfront and that made the last three days before closing an adventure?  First, you need to get the realtor on their ass in week one.  Then you need to be telling the agent what you can’t guarantee anything because of the client.  
 

You’ll lose some referral partners because it got messy but that was happening anyway.  What this will help with is salvaging those that want to like you and are willing to give you the benefit of the doubt. 

[Neonmoon 38129]

I definitely absorb too much. Guilty. My mentors have unsuccessfully tried to beat it out of me. I’d rather solve the problem/improve the process than talk my way out of it, or blame another party (even if it’s mostly or totally another parties fault). That’s probably why I won’t make it long. Ha. 

[UTPhil2006 3797]

3 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

I definitely absorb too much. Guilty. My mentors have unsuccessfully tried to beat it out of me. I’d rather solve the problem/improve the process than talk my way out of it, or blame another party (even if it’s mostly or totally another parties fault). That’s probably why I won’t make it long. Ha. 

I’m the exact same way, and I’m in year 17 of this. Sometimes the job is a beating, but at a lot of other times it can be very rewarding. And some clients/surly guys become good friends. Gotta take the good with the bad. 

[LCHorn 2590]

1 hour ago, Neonmoon said:

I definitely absorb too much.

I get it; you’ve had an entire lifetime of men and media telling you (or implying) that you should be in control, that “real men” take control of problems, and if there’s failure a man of honor takes the blame.

I remember a coach once telling me (after we did some role play), “Stop apologizing for everything.”  And he was right; I would apologize for the market deterioration, that my processor sent too many emails, that we missed a deadline.  Too much of that and a referral partner loses confidence.  

My old boss that does $60m a month (even now, in 2021 it was twice that) was very good about explaining “the why” and it worked (and I’ve copied that to lesser success).  He was also very confident about his model and the value it offered to referral partners-if an agent didn’t have a good experience he’d want to know more (and he never got defensive), but he’d also do a great job of explaining the problem on his end and pivot towards a solution rather than have a pity party about the problem itself.  
 

He’d also never hesitate to make the borrower the scapegoat-unhappy agents will blame anyone but themselves and lenders are easy targets.  it’s not hard to redirect that ire to the client that’s also made them sweat this paycheck.  

[Neonmoon 38129]

I get it. I really do. It’s just not me. 

[Incredulity 11570]

it's an interesting point.

Not being a dick, but I really can't think of many careers/jobs/businesses that aren't beholden to the capriciousness of a counter-party.  Work hard to develop great relationships with the companies/people who appreciate the value you create.  Expect to take shrapnel in the heat of combat.  Have a long memory, and try to know when to cut bait.

 

edit**  I guess a person can get a position where they don't have to deal directly with the capriciousness, but none of those positions have much agency to grow a business.

Edited May 8 by Incredulity

[UTPhil2006 3797]

10 year flat as flat can be this week. I feel like tomorrow will be much of the same, a couple days of slightly low days to finish off buttering us up Monday and Tuesday and then a jump again with the CPI Wednesday. Rinse repeat since December it seems. I pray that I’m wrong but I surmise that I’m right. 

[Gil Bang 25905]

what's the scam here?  random text from an (857) number.  "I'm looking to buy a home in Carlsbad, can you help me"?   Says budget is 3 million, needs 4 bedrooms, etc.  Gives VERY Chinese name.  

After a few texts says "do you have WhatsApp.  We can communicate there".  

Seems scammy, but I cannot figure out the endgame. 

[Wulaw Horn 19052]

Just now, Gil Bang said:

what's the scam here?  random text from an (857) number.  "I'm looking to buy a home in Carlsbad, can you help me"?   Says budget is 3 million, needs 4 bedrooms, etc.  Gives VERY Chinese name.  

After a few texts says "do you have WhatsApp.  We can communicate there".  

Seems scammy, but I cannot figure out the endgame. 

I got the same thing the other day.  They sent me their bank statement with $4.5M in it. I told them to fuck off.  Literally.  Scumbags.  

[Gil Bang 25905]

Spoiler

QUESTION: I’ve been contacted by a buyer prospect who only communicates with me through WhatsApp. I know that WhatsApp is a common messaging app in other countries and so I’ve been responding to the prospect’s messages. If this prospect is legitimate, I really want to help him. However, I am also worried about being scammed. Do you have any guidance?

ANSWER: We have received several reports involving fake buyers on WhatsApp over the last couple of months. The scam typically begins the same way each time. The scammer/fake buyer will reach out either by message or voice call through WhatsApp and make contact with an agent. The scammer establishes a relationship with the agent that often appears to be legitimate, at which point the scammer either: (1) informs the agent that they intend to purchase the property with cash made in crypto currency trading; or (2) requests that the agent provide the scammer with a verification code the agent has received.

The goal of the crypto story is usually to entice the agent to make crypto trades with the scammer’s website, and as soon as the agent has inputted their own, personal banking account information, the scammer disappears with the agent’s money. As for the verification code scam, the scammer already has the agent’s login and password for some account, such as a banking or email account, and once the verification code is given by the agent, the scammer hacks that account and maybe even holds it for ransom.

It is true that WhatsApp, in and of itself, is not a scam. It is the most popular messaging app in the world due to its low cost and ease of use. You may well encounter legitimate prospect buyers through WhatsApp. However, legitimate buyers, much like legitimate sellers, will almost always take simple steps to show that they are real, such as:

1.     Make initial contact through more traditional communication methods, like a phone call or email.
2.     Provide verifiable proof of their identity.
3.     Participate in video calls outside of WhatsApp, including video calls to verify their identity.
4.     Sign an agency agreement with wet ink after you have mailed it to a verifiable address rather than using electronic signatures; and
5.     Give proof of funds that can be verified with the banking institution.

The following could be clues that the potential buyer client is not who they say they are: names or addresses misspelled; a sudden change in the tone of communication, especially claims of urgency; regular changing of next steps or instructions; unusual attachments or links; and making statements that seem inflated or exaggerated, especially relating to money or property value.

We’ve written about fake seller scams here, and much of that material also applies to this scenario. The additional advice in this Q&A can also be used to avoid fake sellers. Be wary if a prospect buyer approaches you through WhatsApp, and be sure to comply with your firm’s policies regarding out-of-state prospects.

Release Date: 12/14/2023

© Copyright 2023. North Carolina Association of REALTORS®, Inc.

This article is intended solely for the benefit of NC REALTORS® members, who may reproduce and distribute it to other NC REALTORS® members and their clients, provided it is reproduced in its entirety without any change to its format or content, including disclaimer and copyright notice, and provided that any such reproduction is not intended for monetary gain. Any unauthorized reproduction, use or distribution is prohibited.

Here's the answer, maybe.

[Gil Bang 25905]

reddit says it's a crypto scam.  Mofo is barking up the wrong tree.   I wouldn't touch crypto if Jessica Alba told me that there was crypto in her pussy.

[ChickenSandwich 9814]

1 hour ago, Gil Bang said:

reddit says it's a crypto scam.  Mofo is barking up the wrong tree.   I wouldn't touch crypto if Jessica Alba told me that there was crypto in her pussy.

 

[Blotto 23472]

2 hours ago, Gil Bang said:

reddit says it's a crypto scam.  Mofo is barking up the wrong tree.   I wouldn't touch crypto if Jessica Alba told me that there was crypto in her pussy.

I'd be up for conducting some due diligence on your behalf. 

Edited May 9 by Blotto

[Dbeasy 15013]

3 hours ago, Gil Bang said:

what's the scam here?  random text from an (857) number.  "I'm looking to buy a home in Carlsbad, can you help me"?   Says budget is 3 million, needs 4 bedrooms, etc.  Gives VERY Chinese name.  

After a few texts says "do you have WhatsApp.  We can communicate there".  

Seems scammy, but I cannot figure out the endgame. 

Definitely a scam

[UTPhil2006 3797]

Jobless claims up, 10 year snuck down another .04 to 4.44 roughly month lows 

[Gil Bang 25905]

yeah, but MOST of those jobless claims are laid-off loan guys.

[Surly Bevo 24889]

7 hours ago, Gil Bang said:

  Reveal hidden contents

QUESTION: I’ve been contacted by a buyer prospect who only communicates with me through WhatsApp. I know that WhatsApp is a common messaging app in other countries and so I’ve been responding to the prospect’s messages. If this prospect is legitimate, I really want to help him. However, I am also worried about being scammed. Do you have any guidance?

ANSWER: We have received several reports involving fake buyers on WhatsApp over the last couple of months. The scam typically begins the same way each time. The scammer/fake buyer will reach out either by message or voice call through WhatsApp and make contact with an agent. The scammer establishes a relationship with the agent that often appears to be legitimate, at which point the scammer either: (1) informs the agent that they intend to purchase the property with cash made in crypto currency trading; or (2) requests that the agent provide the scammer with a verification code the agent has received.

The goal of the crypto story is usually to entice the agent to make crypto trades with the scammer’s website, and as soon as the agent has inputted their own, personal banking account information, the scammer disappears with the agent’s money. As for the verification code scam, the scammer already has the agent’s login and password for some account, such as a banking or email account, and once the verification code is given by the agent, the scammer hacks that account and maybe even holds it for ransom.

It is true that WhatsApp, in and of itself, is not a scam. It is the most popular messaging app in the world due to its low cost and ease of use. You may well encounter legitimate prospect buyers through WhatsApp. However, legitimate buyers, much like legitimate sellers, will almost always take simple steps to show that they are real, such as:

1.     Make initial contact through more traditional communication methods, like a phone call or email.
2.     Provide verifiable proof of their identity.
3.     Participate in video calls outside of WhatsApp, including video calls to verify their identity.
4.     Sign an agency agreement with wet ink after you have mailed it to a verifiable address rather than using electronic signatures; and
5.     Give proof of funds that can be verified with the banking institution.

The following could be clues that the potential buyer client is not who they say they are: names or addresses misspelled; a sudden change in the tone of communication, especially claims of urgency; regular changing of next steps or instructions; unusual attachments or links; and making statements that seem inflated or exaggerated, especially relating to money or property value.

We’ve written about fake seller scams here, and much of that material also applies to this scenario. The additional advice in this Q&A can also be used to avoid fake sellers. Be wary if a prospect buyer approaches you through WhatsApp, and be sure to comply with your firm’s policies regarding out-of-state prospects.

Release Date: 12/14/2023

© Copyright 2023. North Carolina Association of REALTORS®, Inc.

This article is intended solely for the benefit of NC REALTORS® members, who may reproduce and distribute it to other NC REALTORS® members and their clients, provided it is reproduced in its entirety without any change to its format or content, including disclaimer and copyright notice, and provided that any such reproduction is not intended for monetary gain. Any unauthorized reproduction, use or distribution is prohibited.

Here's the answer, maybe.

Sounds like it's a variant of the Pig Butcher.  Your prospective client is likely a SE Asian man who is currently being caned for not closing the deal on you.

 

[Incredulity 11570]

23 hours ago, Gil Bang said:

I wouldn't touch crypto if Jessica Alba told me that there was crypto in her pussy.

[Gatorubet 30167]

On 5/7/2024 at 6:36 PM, Neonmoon said:

Most clients are fine, but there is some entitlement out there, as if they are shopping at Walmart, and everyone is an expert these days. 

Try law. Nobody tells their surgeon how to do laparoscopic surgery, but everyone on the planet will tell you exactly how the law and trials work in their case. 

[Gatorubet 30167]

On 5/9/2024 at 11:02 AM, Gil Bang said:

what's the scam here?  random text from an (857) number.  "I'm looking to buy a home in Carlsbad, can you help me"?   Says budget is 3 million, needs 4 bedrooms, etc.  Gives VERY Chinese name.  

After a few texts says "do you have WhatsApp.  We can communicate there".  

Seems scammy, but I cannot figure out the endgame. 

The request for dick pics should’ve told you.

[Incredulity 11570]

13 minutes ago, Gatorubet said:

Try law. Nobody tells their surgeon how to do laparoscopic surgery, but everyone on the planet will tell you exactly how the law and trials work in their case. 

In my own defense I am always self aware enough to verbally acknowledge when I am arguing law and legal work with a lawyer.

However, there have been a few times it has been to my benefit.

[Neonmoon 38129]

I need to figure out better strategies to get off the phone with long winded people. Car just hit a water buffalo? That ever work?

[NoRagrets 1125]

On 5/7/2024 at 7:09 AM, Wulaw Horn said:

I guess. I don’t mean that we are friends or anything in that sense of the word, but yeah, you are completely right for some. 
it’s a great gig and I’ve actually formed real relationships with some of my borrowers and a bunch of advisor client relationships. 

You’ve done two of my loans and were awesome to work with. That counts for something. 

[NoRagrets 1125]

11 hours ago, Neonmoon said:

I need to figure out better strategies to get off the phone with long winded people. Car just hit a water buffalo? That ever work?

“I got a hard stop in five minutes.” Cheesy business lingo but it works. 

[UTPhil2006 3797]

Survived the CPI. 10 year down .06 

[Wulaw Horn 19052]

2 minutes ago, UTPhil2006 said:

Survived the CPI. 10 year down .06 

Wouldn't exactly say it came in cool as I've seen some headlines, but came in at expectations- which the market found to be good stuff, more or less. Lot's of "in line with expectations".

The Consumer numbers were brutal. Last months were revised down and this months were missed by like 1%. My guess is that's moving market some.

 

[UTPhil2006 3797]

10 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Wouldn't exactly say it came in cool as I've seen some headlines, but came in at expectations- which the market found to be good stuff, more or less. Lot's of "in line with expectations".

The Consumer numbers were brutal. Last months were revised down and this months were missed by like 1%. My guess is that's moving market some.

 

It didn’t jump 10-20 basis points like the last 5 months so I’m calling it a win 

[Wulaw Horn 19052]

1 minute ago, UTPhil2006 said:

It didn’t jump 10-20 basis points like the last 5 months so I’m calling it a win 

For sure. It actually is a win. Without the numbers being good for the market so I think everyone was just scared would be my take.  

The gauge from yesterday (PPI) got revised down like 0.4%.  That's part of what started us on this idiocy of the past month. If the government could get their damn figures right and stop just absolutley spooking the market every time they release a mohterfucking report on jobs or inflation or the like it would be super helpful. Revisions don't move the markets like the initial headline numbers..

[Neonmoon 38129]

I'm glad I locked in those three loans before today. The ONE time it comes in not hot. 

 

[UTPhil2006 3797]

15 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

I'm glad I locked in those three loans before today. The ONE time it comes in not hot. 

 

Given the last ~5 months that was the correct move. 

[Neonmoon 38129]

20 hours ago, UTPhil2006 said:

Given the last ~5 months that was the correct move. 

One of them backed out due to home inspection revealing 100K of repairs needed on a 320K home. Apparently fixing & flipping is harder than HGTV makes it out to be. 

[UTPhil2006 3797]

1 hour ago, Neonmoon said:

One of them backed out due to home inspection revealing 100K of repairs needed on a 320K home. Apparently fixing & flipping is harder than HGTV makes it out to be. 

Is this the house?

[Wulaw Horn 19052]

Have a 100% option for a free 3% up to 15k for the right kind of borrower. Fill in more as it develops. 

[UTPhil2006 3797]

9 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Have a 100% option for a free 3% up to 15k for the right kind of borrower. Fill in more as it develops. 

I mean it’s a solid program, but surprised that’s what UWM was teasing for a month. 

[UTPhil2006 3797]

The 3% is a second lien that UWM holds with no payment or interest. 

[Wulaw Horn 19052]

1 hour ago, UTPhil2006 said:

The 3% is a second lien that UWM holds with no payment or interest. 

Yeah- I assume you have to pay it back when you refinance or sell but other than that it just sits there and does nothing.