DNA tracking through commercial services

[Mojo Hand 4,580]

Apparently the cops caught the Golden State killer by sending his DNA sample to a commercial service, like 23andme or ancestry.com, where it came up with a potential relative, and then they figured out who in that family tree fit the profile.   Unclear whether they notified the service or just pretended they were submitting a personal sample.

https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5ae25c20e4b04aa23f215823

Am I overreacting in thinking that this is a pretty chilling, though perhaps inevitable, development?   Are we finally getting close to Gattaca territory?  For those those who haven't seen it, there's a scene where investigators vaccum up a room and run the DNA of all the skin cells to find out who was there.

I'm not saying that anything can or even should be done about this.  I don't know.  But it definitely gives me some pause to know that because my dad ran his DNA ancestry, my kids and I and all of our descendents can now be so easily tracked by DNA samples.

Edited April 27, 2018 by Mojo Hand

[Prepuce of Doom 21,074]

My dad bought everyone in the family (including relatives by marriage) 23 and me kits for Christmas back when they first came out, and I pointed out to him that he just paid $100 a pop to send our family's DNA to Google. 

I convinced everyone to throw them all away after we decides it wasn't worth the injury and hassle to send in a tube of the cat's saliva. 

[Michael Knight 12,981]

So you're afraid of being caught after you murder a bunch of people?

[po elvis 2,072]

13 minutes ago, Prepuce of Doom said:

My dad bought everyone in the family (including relatives by marriage) 23 and me kits for Christmas back when they first came out, and I pointed out to him that he just paid $100 a pop to send our family's DNA to Google. 

I convinced everyone to throw them all away after we decides it wasn't worth the injury and hassle to send in a tube of the cat's saliva. 

sorry but it is too late. you have close cousins that have already submitted DNA, which is good enough to find you with a little detective work.

[RollLeft 5,045]

[NorthLoop 14,209]

1 hour ago, Michael Knight said:

So you're afraid of being caught after you murder a bunch of people?

Yeah no shit.  Perhaps you should also make sure your dentist doesn't keep your dental records so nobody can identify you if you die at a Great White concert that you snuck into. 

[Sawbonz 27,565]

8 hours ago, Michael Knight said:

So you're afraid of being caught after you murder a bunch of people?

If you’re not doing anything wrong 

[DigglerontheHoof 21,202]

I'm not sure how this could fuck over an innocent person but I bet it will. 

[Doc Holliday 199]

Good creative police work on a relatively cold case.  I don't think there is any legal matter or issue with this IF they had a warrant and in the T's and C's the DNA company explicitly states they will work with law enforcement on certain matters. 

Welcome to the digital age where none of what makes you special matters as it's all digitized and computers don't have the cognitive ability (yet) to see you as anything different than a 1 or 0. 

Edited April 27, 2018 by Doc Holliday

[FondrenRoad 4,378]

It isn't gattaca until they start rounding up people with genetic defects or arresting people for predisposition to commit crimes. This was just good police work used to catch a guy who was actually a murderer. 

The big genetic scare is going to come from you and your sexual partner, not from the police. It will start with editing out genes that increase the risk of cancer and other diseases. That will make its way to editing out genes for homosexuality. And then the door is wide open and you'll be choosing a designer baby and picking hair color, skin color, height, gender, dick size, athletic ability, etc even though you're a balding short guy and your wife is fat and ugly. 

[gyroprotagonist 2,594]

Gattica was all about the 'quality' of one's genes determining their life path, their tier of jobs, tier of mates etc...  The scary part is not LE agencies having access to DNA to solve crimes, but insurance companies downgrading you and your spawn because of a real or perceived flaw from a DNA marker.  Oh you have that marker?  well you and yours pay double for coverage.

Say they test rapy priests and child predators and develop a marker for predisposed child molestation.  Now school districts/child care facilities etc.. limit innocent people from pursuing jobs in those fields because of a DNA marker.  Same thing could be done for all sorts of jobs.

Then there is also the 23andme merge with Tinder.  Gattica also had potential couples see their genetic 'rating'.  So swipe left for predisposition for heart disease or cancer or a detrimental dormant gene.

[d2o 1,602]

yeah, I've wanted to do the DNA testing but I definitely fear that the info will eventually be used improperly.

[Macanudo 12,979]

21 minutes ago, d2o said:

yeah, I've wanted to do the DNA testing but I definitely fear that the info will eventually be used improperly.

I think, in my lifetime and I'm 47, that we'll see national DNA databases where DNA is collected at birth.     Won't take long after that for everyone born to have their DNA recorded. 

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4,976]

1 hour ago, FondrenRoad said:

It isn't gattaca until they start rounding up people with genetic defects or arresting people for predisposition to commit crimes. This was just good police work used to catch a guy who was actually a murderer. 

The big genetic scare is going to come from you and your sexual partner, not from the police. It will start with editing out genes that increase the risk of cancer and other diseases. That will make its way to editing out genes for homosexuality. And then the door is wide open and you'll be choosing a designer baby and picking hair color, skin color, height, gender, dick size, athletic ability, etc even though you're a balding short guy and your wife is fat and ugly. 

Or folks on reddit trying to do police work and harassing innocent people.

[Mojo Hand 4,580]

That seems like a reasonable concern —pizzagate types running DNA.  And let's not forget that there isn't necessarily a direct match.  If some remote cousin of yours is the perp, and your dad's ancestry test gets a hit, you'll be on the cops' radar.  My dad was recently matched up on ancestry.com with his grandmother's brother's grandson, which is pretty distant.  He didn't even know the guy existed.   Cops don't always get things right. 

Edited April 27, 2018 by Mojo Hand

[po elvis 2,072]

5 minutes ago, Mojo Hand said:

That seems like a reasonable concern —pizzagate types running DNA.  And let's not forget that there isn't necessarily a direct match.  If some remote cousin of yours is the perp, and your dad's ancestry test gets a hit, you'll be on the cops' radar.  My dad was recently matched up on ancestry.com with his grandmother's brother's grandson, which is pretty distant.  He didn't even know the guy existed.   Cops don't always get things right. 

well then you give them your DNA sample and clear yourself.

[drt 638]

Burden of proof of guilt in the US has always been on the justice system, not burden of proof of innocence by the accused.  There is a big difference.

[XYZ 2,154]

3 minutes ago, drt said:

Burden of proof of guilt in the US has always been on the justice system, not burden of proof of innocence by the accused.  There is a big difference.

Unless you are dealing with the tax man, in which case you are fucked unless you can prove you did nothing wrong.

[po elvis 2,072]

7 minutes ago, drt said:

Burden of proof of guilt in the US has always been on the justice system, not burden of proof of innocence by the accused.  There is a big difference.

when a person is a suspect in a crime, it is always in their best interest to give proof of their innocence if available. i like DNA, cell phone records, etc. they give me a fighting chance if I am an innocent person.

[drt 638]

I did say justice system, not revenue.  But yes, civil forfeiture laws as well as the IRS work in the opposite manner.  And it's bullshit.

[AUS-97HORN 11,770]

48 minutes ago, Mojo Hand said:

 My dad was recently matched up on ancestry.com with his grandmother's brother's grandson, which is pretty distant.  He didn't even know the guy existed. 

If I read that correctly, your father matched up with a 2nd cousin (shares a great-grandparent). Thats not that distant. 

I have met probably ~15 of my 2nd cousins, I almost never interact with them anymore, but I wouldnt consider that very distant.

[MaybeACoordinator 8,349]

I took one of those years ago and it revealed that my first American ancestor on my dad's line came to America under an alias in about 1745, and then named his son after himself (using his real last name as his son's middle name). So every American paternal ancestor of mine has been using the wrong last name since the year Benjamin Franklin's dad died.

It might be funny if 23 and Me did commercials like this. "I found out my great-great-grandfather was some kind of fugitive!"

"My DNA cracked a serial murderer case! Because the killer was my brother!" 

And the obvious: "He only thought he was my daddy!"

[El Diablo 4,232]

I'll be selling my DNA to the highest bidder.

[texasjacket 289]

I gave your mom a DNA sample last night

[Judge Roybeanbag 11,819]

19 minutes ago, texasjacket said:

I gave your mom a DNA sample last night

Don’t worry, she’ll wipe it off her strap-on before she pegs the next fella.  

[hornian 5,219]

DNA isn’t infallible - read this Wired article about how an EMT accidentally transferred DNA from a homeless drunk he had taken to the hospital to a murder scene later that day, and how they almost convicted the homeless guy before it was figured out:

 

https://www.wired.com/story/dna-transfer-framed-murder/amp

 

Also, there is an anecdote in that article about how there was a suspected “serial killer” in Europe, who wound up just being an employee at the DNA sample collection factory whose DNA had wound up on the cotton swabs from the manufacturing process and they kept getting hits on it at crime scenes all over Europe.

[JohnnyRage 1,617]

It was not a private commercial DNA database. It was open-source available to the public. Kind of messed up though that the killer did not submit his own DNA. But it is way more fucked up to be a perennial murderer and rapist.

[Reagan1k 3,024]

Yep ----Johnny has it - As I understand it, they did not troll the 23andMe or similar sites - they went to an open data base where people take their 23andMe results and dump them into a pot looking for matches and searching for distant relatives.  Thus, they did not have to get a warrant from the original DNA testing companies, but instead searched through profiles intentionally made "public".

Granted, I'm simplifying the process but they did not go into a private data base - they looked though a public source for similar profiles.....kind of like looking through FSBO ads in a paper wanting to sell a bike that would match one reported stolen....being sold by an unwitting seller given the bike by a crook and worked backwards....- that's probably not a direct analogy but the best I can come up with.

[Parliament 14,260]

I need to tell my busybody sisters not to get any bright ideas.

[KYHorn 17,073]

1 hour ago, Reagan1k said:

Yep ----Johnny has it - As I understand it, they did not troll the 23andMe or similar sites - they went to an open data base where people take their 23andMe results and dump them into a pot looking for matches and searching for distant relatives.  Thus, they did not have to get a warrant from the original DNA testing companies, but instead searched through profiles intentionally made "public".

Granted, I'm simplifying the process but they did not go into a private data base - they looked though a public source for similar profiles.....kind of like looking through FSBO ads in a paper wanting to sell a bike that would match one reported stolen....being sold by an unwitting seller given the bike by a crook and worked backwards....- that's probably not a direct analogy but the best I can come up with.

This is correct. They did not contact GEDMatch. GEDMatch users upload their raw DNA to find relatives and can upload their ancestry trees as well to be able to figure out exactly how they are related. You can also see exactly where on particular chromosomes you and any 1 individual share DNA. It's a pretty powerful tool. You also have control over what info you share, so if his distant cousins didn't have their trees available, the investigators would've had to find other ways of tracking down who he was. My guess is that for the vast majority of people in the US who have family that have been here for at least four or five generations, they would be able to find DNA relatives online. 

[Mojo Hand 4,580]

2 hours ago, JohnnyRage said:

It was not a private commercial DNA database. It was open-source available to the public. Kind of messed up though that the killer did not submit his own DNA. But it is way more fucked up to be a perennial murderer and rapist.

I certainly don't feel bad for the rapist/killer, and I'm glad the cops caught him using whatever resources were legally available to them. Still, I'm surprised at all the "if you haven't done anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about" perspectives here.  Cops make mistakes.  Self-deputized online conspiracy theories make mistakes. And people may want to track you for shit that isn't even illegal.   The move towards all of our DNA being on the grid — even if not by our own choice, but though a distant family member - warrants some reflection, IMO. 

[Dolemite 143]

The original Blockchain.

[XYZ 2,154]

On 4/26/2018 at 10:34 PM, Prepuce of Doom said:

My dad bought everyone in the family (including relatives by marriage) 23 and me kits for Christmas back when they first came out, and I pointed out to him that he just paid $100 a pop to send our family's DNA to Google. 

I convinced everyone to throw them all away after we decides it wasn't worth the injury and hassle to send in a tube of the cat's saliva. 

So your dad spent a bunch of money buying DNA tests and you convinced everyone to throw them away? That’s funny. Username checks out, I guess.

[Slacks 6,821]

So... My wife got my mother a kit for Mother's day...  I was unaware and hadn't read the tiny words... or been involved in any way, other than being husband to wife and son to mother...

But mom's 'results' come back... 27% Great Britain followed by various African countries (Nigeria, Ghana, something something...)

We're pretty surprised by it.  We *know* there is German and Native American... I suppose the Native American could be in the "migrated from..." Africa to Carolinas or whatever...

Personally, I think (well, now know) this is a bit of a sham... and half my DNA is now captured in the innerwebs...

Bugger off. I still wear grey trousers, mate.

[Mojo Hand 4,580]

7 minutes ago, Snacks said:

So... My wife got my mother a kit for Mother's day...  I was unaware and hadn't read the tiny words... or been involved in any way, other than being husband to wife and son to mother...

But mom's 'results' come back... 27% Great Britain followed by various African countries (Nigeria, Ghana, something something...)

We're pretty surprised by it.  We *know* there is German and Native American... I suppose the Native American could be in the "migrated from..." Africa to Carolinas or whatever...

Personally, I think (well, now know) this is a bit of a sham... and half my DNA is now captured in the innerwebs...

Bugger off. I still wear grey trousers, mate.

Could it be that the German ancestors descended from all British immigrants to Germany?   And there's always the possibility of an affair (or other DNA source) somewhere in the line. 

Edited September 5, 2018 by Mojo Hand

[El Diablo 4,232]

2 hours ago, Mojo Hand said:

Could it be that the German ancestors descended from all British immigrants to Germany?   And there's always the possibility of an affair (or other DNA source) somewhere in the line. 

One of my cousins had hers done a few years back. They're German on both sides supposedly but nope, half was Scottish. Must have moved to Germany way back when.

[G650 14,263]

We did a party on our block where all the neighbors did one of these, then we revealed at party (couldn't peek before hand). We had to all cook a dish from where we thought we were from. For me, that was a double edge sword. I know absolutely where I'm from, so i would get it right, but it's English food, so it sucks. Made a Beef and Guinness pie that was actually pretty tasty though.

The one racist guy thought he would be funny and brought fried chicken and watermelon. Turns out he had .1% Nigerian lololol.

I was officially the whitest motherfucker out. 100% Indo-European/Anglo. I'm practically clear.

[Guest]

19 minutes ago, G650 said:

We did a party on our block where all the neighbors did one of these, then we revealed at party (couldn't peek before hand). We had to all cook a dish from where we thought we were from. For me, that was a double edge sword. I know absolutely where I'm from, so i would get it right, but it's English food, so it sucks. Made a Beef and Guinness pie that was actually pretty tasty though.

The one racist guy thought he would be funny and brought fried chicken and watermelon. Turns out he had .1% Nigerian lololol.

I was officially the whitest motherfucker out. 100% Indo-European/Anglo. I'm practically clear.

Alt-right parties are weird.

[MissingInAction 25,089]

I leave DNA samples all over the place.its my thing.

[woohorn 1,131]

I don't have anything to hide (nttiawwt), but I always figured you should buy swab as a "gift" and use fake name/snail mail address when mailing it in and set up a gmail before doing the dna test. Aren't results just emailed to you?

[Digdogger 1,344]

15 hours ago, MissingInAction said:

I leave DNA samples all over the place.its my thing.

Just because homeless men tend to be all over the place

[cabowabo 4,487]

So... My wife got my mother a kit for Mother's day...  I was unaware and hadn't read the tiny words... or been involved in any way, other than being husband to wife and son to mother...
But mom's 'results' come back... 27% Great Britain followed by various African countries (Nigeria, Ghana, something something...)
We're pretty surprised by it.  We *know* there is German and Native American... I suppose the Native American could be in the "migrated from..." Africa to Carolinas or whatever...
Personally, I think (well, now know) this is a bit of a sham... and half my DNA is now captured in the innerwebs...
Bugger off. I still wear grey trousers, mate.

T

[Nice Guy Eddie 13,515]

17 hours ago, G650 said:

We did a party on our block where all the neighbors did one of these, then we revealed at party (couldn't peek before hand). We had to all cook a dish from where we thought we were from. For me, that was a double edge sword. I know absolutely where I'm from, so i would get it right, but it's English food, so it sucks. Made a Beef and Guinness pie that was actually pretty tasty though.

The one racist guy thought he would be funny and brought fried chicken and watermelon. Turns out he had .1% Nigerian lololol.

I was officially the whitest motherfucker out. 100% Indo-European/Anglo. I'm practically clear.

get-togethers like this are just one reason I don't live in the burbs.    

[G650 14,263]

2 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

get-togethers like this are just one reason I don't live in the burbs.    

Wise.

 

This was actually the first neighbor party I went to. I've lived in my current house since 2006.

[Onboard 2.0 9,083]

On 4/26/2018 at 11:37 PM, Michael Knight said:

So you're afraid of being caught after you murder a bunch of people?

Yeah..... what's your point ?

[MissingInAction 25,089]

2 hours ago, Digdogger said:

Just because homeless men tend to be all over the place

You haven't lived until you've paid for a $5 handie behind a Bucees.

[KaiserSoze 998]

So Bastrop is finally participating in the Gig Economy... good for them.

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4,976]

18 hours ago, woohorn said:

I don't have anything to hide (nttiawwt), but I always figured you should buy swab as a "gift" and use fake name/snail mail address when mailing it in and set up a gmail before doing the dna test. Aren't results just emailed to you?

They already have enough of your relatives in their database to catch you.

[NorthLoop 14,209]

Buccees handjobs are way nicer than other gas station handjobs

[Buffsoldier 1,895]

On ‎9‎/‎6‎/‎2018 at 7:27 AM, MissingInAction said:

You haven't lived until you've paid for a $5 handie behind a Bucees.

Well look at Mr. Moneybags here.