Simms v Applewhite: Offseason Thread of Dominance

[mr.goodkat 469]

i was behind the simms choice then due to higher upside . that clip makes me happy about it 

[cmontexas 3,332]

My aunt went to Lee (Im sorry, Wisdom) the same time as Gardere and my dad was a former Lee QB. From when I was 6 and started paying attention to football until I was 9 Peter Gardere beat OU 4 times in a row. Gardere was god to me as a kid

[Nivek 17,369]

13 hours ago, bullet said:

And Applewhite never threw 4 interceptions in a half in a conference championship game against a team they beat 41-7 earlier in the season.

Simms never lost to Nebraska in B12 Play.  I believe that honor goes to Applewhite.

Simms never lost to K-state.   

Simms never started and lost to Stanford.  

 

26-6 > 22-8  

 

[Johnny Sack 8,397]

1 hour ago, Nivek said:

Simms never lost to Nebraska in B12 Play.  I believe that honor goes to Applewhite.

Simms never lost to K-state.   

Simms never started and lost to Stanford.  

 

26-6 > 22-8  

 

 

He also never choked away a national title game shot and conference title by having 4 turnovers in one half against a team we had beaten 41-7 a few weeks earlier.

The Nebraska team Major beat twice was actually really good.  Especially the 1999 team whose only loss was to Texas and stopped them from probably winning a national title.

The 2002 Nebraska team Simms beat was unranked and 3-5 in Big 12 competition and 7-7 overall.

Simms' 4 worst games were the 3 losses to OU and the Big 12 title debacle. Those were also the 4 most important games he played at Texas.

The highlights I guess would be beating 2002 K State on the road and a pretty mediocre 8-5 LSU in the Cotton Bowl?  He did own A&M.  But late RC Slocum tenure A&M wasn't any good.

Applewhite wasn't really any better, so I largely did not care who started.  Neither were really great college QBs.  Both were just above average.

Edited January 21, 2021 by Johnny Sack

[satyanash 15,434]

1 hour ago, Nivek said:

Simms never lost to Nebraska in B12 Play.  I believe that honor goes to Applewhite.

Beating #7 Nebraska (7-1) in 1998 in Lincoln and #3 Nebraska (6-0) the following year were both way bigger accomplishments than Simms' win over an unranked 6-3 squad in 2002.

[NoRagrets 1,137]

Simms was good and very capable 90% of the time, but had a knack for choking on the big stage.

Applewhite had less athletic ability than most of guys in Gregory playing pickup games, but he was a smart qb that maximized his capabilities in the clutch.

Honestly, the year that they split time, Simms was better in every game that I can remember. He was just a head case, and I’ve always wondered if Applewhite being on the bench waiting for him to fuck up created that (not applewhite’s fault obviously). 

Edited January 21, 2021 by NoRagrets

[6th Street 6,656]

Thankfully VY and Colt were miles ahead of these dudes and led us to new heights. 

[Your Mom 4,959]

If I'm picking one QB for the season it's Simms by a longshot.  If I'm picking one QB for a single series with the game on the line it's Applewhite. 

From everything I heard back then Simms was better liked and respected by his teammates.  The views of the fans and the lockerroom seemed to be at polar opposites of each other.  Part of what made Major a fan favorite was that he was skinny and awkward and was only recruited because Mack wanted Greg Brown and Travis Minor from the same high school.  Expectations were low from the start.  If he was a highly recruited guy at 6'5" with a cannon of an arm and put up his same numbers he'd just be another name in a list of pretty good UT QBs.  He was a gamer for sure in the times we needed him the most but he was never the guy the fans built him up to be.   You just expect that a guy that goofy who makes some clutch plays is going to be a good guy.  The people I know who were friends with him in and after college said he was a generally a douchebag.  

Edited January 21, 2021 by Your Mom

[Nivek 17,369]

14 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

 

He also never choked away a national title game shot and conference title by having 4 turnovers in one half against a team we had beaten 41-7 a few weeks earlier.

The Nebraska team Major beat twice was actually really good.  Especially the 1999 team whose only loss was to Texas and stopped them from probably winning a national title.

The 2002 Nebraska team Simms beat was unranked and 3-5 in Big 12 competition and 7-7 overall.

Simms' 4 worst games were the 3 losses to OU and the Big 12 title debacle. Those were also the 4 most important games he played at Texas.

The highlights I guess would be beating 2002 K State on the road and a pretty mediocre 8-5 LSU in the Cotton Bowl?  He did own A&M.  But late RC Slocum tenure A&M wasn't any good.

Applewhite wasn't really any better, so I largely did not care who started.  Neither were really great college QBs.  Both were just above average.

The point was that one can cherry pick games, a particularly bad throw, or define one game as more important than another and attribute the loss to a QB when the team fails him.  How many dropped TD passes was that to end the Oregon game?  Which player downed the ball at the 2 yard line and who missed the block allowing Evil Roy to hurdle the line and hit the QB?  Why was Cedric allowed to play post OU?  Did Simms not beat Tech or was it the DBs who got themselves suspended that cost us the game?   Simms' turnovers and getting rattled in the Colorado game was bad, his coach keeping him out there was worse.   His coach going after the punt to seal the win for Colorado was worse (even if you hate the Halo rule, it was the rule).  Applewhite had poor games, was hurt a lot, and also fucked up (appleturnover).   

Aggy had 1 outlier year in 1998 while Applewhite was a player, where they were 11-3.  Otherwise they were 8-4, 7-5, 8-4, 6-6 (Simms final year) and they were 25-15 the previous 3 years, not exactly some juggernaut.    That was a Nick Saban LSU team that won it all the next year.    OU, Unranked for 1998, 1999, and then wins it all in 2000, and ends up #6 2001, #5 2002 and #3 for 2003/4.   OU was a much better squad when Simms was playing for Texas than Applewhite.    

Cherry picking is fun right?   26-6 > 22-8

 

[irishtexan 11,692]

Is there a collection of threads that are the opposite of "classics"? Because rehashing a 20 year old argument that was among the dumbest in UT history has to qualify, right?

[4th&Five 41,916]

Just now, Your Mom said:

If I'm picking one QB for the season it's Simms by a longshot.  If I'm picking one QB for a single series with the game on the line it's Applewhite. 

From everything I heard back then Simms was better liked and respected by his teammates.  The views of the fans and the lockerroom seemed to be at polar opposites of each other.  Part of what made Major a fan favorite was that he was skinny and awkward and was only recruited because Mack wanted Greg Brown and Travis Minor from the same high school.  Expectations were low from the start.  If he was a highly recruited guy at 6'5" with a cannon of an arm and put up his same numbers he'd just be another name in a list of pretty good UT QBs.  He was a gamer for sure in the times we needed him the most but he was never the guy the fans built him up to be.   You just expect that a guy that goofy who makes some clutch plays is going to be a good guy.  The people I know who were friends with him in and after college said he was a generally a douchebag.  

Major was on campus before Mack.

[Nivek 17,369]

24 minutes ago, satyanash said:

Beating #7 Nebraska (7-1) in 1998 in Lincoln and #3 Nebraska (6-0) the following year were both way bigger accomplishments than Simms' win over an unranked 6-3 squad in 2002.

Cherry picking polls is fun.   Nebraska finished 19 in the AP in 1998.    Yes, he lead Texas to a win vs Nebraska in 1999, and a loss to Nebraska in 1999.   Lets just ignore the last part though, because Applewhites bad games don't count, his -35 rushing yards, or 3 interceptions.   I guess that wasn't a big game though, since Applewhite stunk it up.  

Texas is back baby, Swoopes leads Texas over top 10 Notre Dame!  (I assume you see the absurdity of this statement.)

[Nivek 17,369]

16 minutes ago, irishtexan said:

Is there a collection of threads that are the opposite of "classics"? Because rehashing a 20 year old argument that was among the dumbest in UT history has to qualify, right?

It is not really an argument.  The cult of Applewhite is claiming that 1+1 = potato, those who recognize that Simms was the better QB know the answer is somewhere between 1 and 3.  

[markstanco 12,774]

I can recall Simms dropping back and me holding my breath every time.  Especially throws on quick outs and to the flats.  Pick six was never out of the question.  He did throw a pretty ball however. 

[usmc0331horn 987]

The answer is Ricky Williams.

[Johnny Sack 8,397]

35 minutes ago, Nivek said:

It is not really an argument.  The cult of Applewhite is claiming that 1+1 = potato, those who recognize that Simms was the better QB know the answer is somewhere between 1 and 3.  

What would you say Chris Simms' signature moment as a Longhorn?  And against OU, our biggest rival?

[Doc Reeves 6,434]

40 minutes ago, Nivek said:

Cherry picking polls is fun.   Nebraska finished 19 in the AP in 1998.    Yes, he lead Texas to a win vs Nebraska in 1999, and a loss to Nebraska in 1999.   Lets just ignore the last part though, because Applewhites bad games don't count, his -35 rushing yards, or 3 interceptions.   I guess that wasn't a big game though, since Applewhite stunk it up.  

Texas is back baby, Swoopes leads Texas over top 10 Notre Dame!  (I assume you see the absurdity of this statement.)

The entire team stunk it up from top to bottom. 
the only one who had a good game was be o when he shit in Neb end zone 

[bullet 1,629]

1 hour ago, Nivek said:

It is not really an argument.  The cult of Applewhite is claiming that 1+1 = potato, those who recognize that Simms was the better QB know the answer is somewhere between 1 and 3.  

Simms was more talented.  Major was a winner.  Mack cost us a chance to play in the BCS title game and get creamed by Miami by not understanding the difference.

[Nivek 17,369]

2 hours ago, Johnny Sack said:

What would you say Chris Simms' signature moment as a Longhorn?  And against OU, our biggest rival?

The idea of a signature moment is stupid.  I remember VY's debut against NMSU as clearly as I remember 4th and 5.   That guy had a losing record vs OUsux as well, 2003, 2004, I guess he sucked too.  

Nice attempt of trying to change goal posts, lawyer.  Can't argue the facts, go with emotion!   26-6 > 22-8

[Nivek 17,369]

2 hours ago, Doc Reeves said:

The entire team stunk it up from top to bottom. 
the only one who had a good game was be o when he shit in Neb end zone 

I see, its the team that is at fault when Major lost, but it was Simms' fault for Texas Defense giving up 250 to Q. Griffin.  

[Johnny Sack 8,397]

7 minutes ago, Nivek said:

The idea of a signature moment is stupid.  I remember VY's debut against NMSU as clearly as I remember 4th and 5.   That guy had a losing record vs OUsux as well, 2003, 2004, I guess he sucked too.  

Nice attempt of trying to change goal posts, lawyer.  Can't argue the facts, go with emotion!   26-6 > 22-8

Chance Mock started against OU in 2003, so no, Vince did not have a losing record against them.

I am not arguing Major was better than Simms.  I am arguing neither were great.  The Major cultists and the "F the Haters Simms is Awesome" Katy Agnor types are equally dumb to me.

The four biggest games of his career at Texas, Simms choked hard.  And I have as many passing TDs as Simms against OU and 8 less interceptions.

[Johnny Sack 8,397]

5 minutes ago, Nivek said:

I see, its the team that is at fault when Major lost, but it was Simms' fault for Texas Defense giving up 250 to Q. Griffin.  

Here are Simms' stats against OU:

11 for 23 passing for 63 yards (2.7 yards per attempt) with 1 INT and 4 carries for -23 yards

24 for 42 passing for 198 yards  (4.7 per attempt) with 4 INT and 8 carries for -16 yards

12 for 26 passing for 156 yards (6 yards per attempt with 3 INT and 9 carries for -18 yards

Grand total of 47 of 91 for 417 yards (4.5 per attempt) and 8 interceptions with 21 carries for -57 yards

[Skipper 6,407]

6 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

 

The four biggest games of his career at Texas, Simms choked hard.  And I have as many passing TDs as Simms against OU and 8 less interceptions.

Pretty sure Major started 2000 OU.  Neither (and nobody on the team) played well that massacre.   Honestly we were so outcoached 2000-2004 in that game you can't put that on any player.  Our offensive game plan each of those was absolute garbage.  Still can't believe Mack and Greg Davis let Stoops completely own them.  Not to mention if our D could stop the Quentin Griffin draw 1 fucking time in the 4th quarter of 2002 maybe we win that game.  Bringing back bad memories with this debate.

[Doc Reeves 6,434]

1 hour ago, Nivek said:

I see, its the team that is at fault when Major lost, but it was Simms' fault for Texas Defense giving up 250 to Q. Griffin.  

Yeah man, major lost some games. And sometimes our receivers made it impossible for Simms.
I would just point to their holiday bowl games as a fairly accurate account of who they were as players to our team. 

[Hunt Stevenson 41]

1 hour ago, Nivek said:

I see, its the team that is at fault when Major lost, but it was Simms' fault for Texas Defense giving up 250 to Q. Griffin.  

It’s his fault for throwing three interceptions that game and no touchdowns.  Ever.  

[Nivek 17,369]

1 hour ago, Johnny Sack said:

Chance Mock started against OU in 2003, so no, Vince did not have a losing record against them.

I am not arguing Major was better than Simms.  I am arguing neither were great.  The Major cultists and the "F the Haters Simms is Awesome" Katy Agnor types are equally dumb to me.

The four biggest games of his career at Texas, Simms choked hard.  And I have as many passing TDs as Simms against OU and 8 less interceptions.

VY was on the team and not a redshirt.  

For a guy who keeps arguing that they are both the equivalent, you seem to take up for Applewhite and downplay Simms.  It is almost like you are being disingenuous in your statement.  No one said Simms was the God's gift to football, that is an argument you are only having with yourself.   Simms had some poor showings at OU.  But that was only him.   Cedric Benson really showcased his talent against OU that year.   

[General Specific 3,498]

Chance Mock started against OU in 2003, so no, Vince did not have a losing record against them.
I am not arguing Major was better than Simms.  I am arguing neither were great.  The Major cultists and the "F the Haters Simms is Awesome" Katy Agnor types are equally dumb to me.
The four biggest games of his career at Texas, Simms choked hard.  And I have as many passing TDs as Simms against OU and 8 less interceptions.

Roy Williams says hi!

[Murfdogg21 4,554]

19 hours ago, Valmy77 said:

Here is the thing: Chris Simms was 0-3 against OU and sucked complete shit all three times. If you want to come here and be QB you don't suck against OU. And if you do suck against OU you better be Vince Young.

Here is the thing: Chris Simms was 0-2 against OU in Greg Davis specials with scores 14-3 and 35-24. In 2000, the score was 28-0 or 35-0 before Simms saw the field. Major did beat OU in 98 (with Ricky and Wane) and in the 99 shootout in Stoops’s first year, but have there been more pointless OU games since then that didn’t involve Mack or Charlie being near fired? 
 

Simms sucked plenty of times. Major sucked just as often but usually to lesser opponents. Major had more balls to audible to aggressive plays that could gain more than 7 yards. 

[Ignatius 4,131]

6 hours ago, Nivek said:

The point was that one can cherry pick games, a particularly bad throw, or define one game as more important than another and attribute the loss to a QB when the team fails him.  How many dropped TD passes was that to end the Oregon game?  Which player downed the ball at the 2 yard line and who missed the block allowing Evil Roy to hurdle the line and hit the QB?  Why was Cedric allowed to play post OU?  Did Simms not beat Tech or was it the DBs who got themselves suspended that cost us the game?   Simms' turnovers and getting rattled in the Colorado game was bad, his coach keeping him out there was worse.   His coach going after the punt to seal the win for Colorado was worse (even if you hate the Halo rule, it was the rule).  Applewhite had poor games, was hurt a lot, and also fucked up (appleturnover).   

Aggy had 1 outlier year in 1998 while Applewhite was a player, where they were 11-3.  Otherwise they were 8-4, 7-5, 8-4, 6-6 (Simms final year) and they were 25-15 the previous 3 years, not exactly some juggernaut.    That was a Nick Saban LSU team that won it all the next year.    OU, Unranked for 1998, 1999, and then wins it all in 2000, and ends up #6 2001, #5 2002 and #3 for 2003/4.   OU was a much better squad when Simms was playing for Texas than Applewhite.    

Cherry picking is fun right?   26-6 > 22-8

 

Fuck cherry-picking then - name the 5 biggest games (within the context of that particular season, at that point in the season) that each of them started, and compare performance.

[Johnny Sack 8,397]

1 hour ago, Nivek said:

VY was on the team and not a redshirt.  

For a guy who keeps arguing that they are both the equivalent, you seem to take up for Applewhite and downplay Simms.  It is almost like you are being disingenuous in your statement.  No one said Simms was the God's gift to football, that is an argument you are only having with yourself.   Simms had some poor showings at OU.  But that was only him.   Cedric Benson really showcased his talent against OU that year.   

My whole point is neither were all that good.  There were Applewhite cultists who thought he was a clutch winner.  He was not. He overachieved as RS Freshman when we had Wane and Adams and Ricky plus a good OL.  And then due to the cultists we got the oversteer response from the "F the Haters Simms is awesome" online contingent that were just as dumb.  Applewhite wouldn't have won anymore games than Simms did against OU.  He does probably beat CU in 2001 and then go on to get his ass kicked by Miami in the title game. Both were limited and turnover prone. 

A sizeable group of our fans still think Simms was 6'5" with a rocket arm.  Because that was the narrative.  I am 6'2" and he maybe has half an inch on me at best and his arm was nothing special.  How he ever got a 5 star rating befuddled me.  He never was that good.  

[Johnny Sack 8,397]

And don't talk about beating that 8-5 LSU team.  They sucked.  The SEC west was garbage in 2002.  Fucking Dennis Franchione won 10 games that year at Alabama and beat no teams that finished in the top 25.

[Ignatius 4,131]

8 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

My whole point is neither were all that good.  There were Applewhite cultists who thought he was a clutch winner.  He was not. He overachieved as RS Freshman when we had Wane and Adams and Ricky plus a good OL.  And then due to the cultists we got the oversteer response from the "F the Haters Simms is awesome" online contingent that were just as dumb.  Applewhite wouldn't have won anymore games than Simms did against OU.  He does probably beat CU in 2001 and then go on to get his ass kicked by Miami in the title game. Both were limited and turnover prone. 

A sizeable group of our fans still think Simms was 6'5" with a rocket arm.  Because that was the narrative.  I am 6'2" and he maybe has half an inch on me at best and his arm was nothing special.  How he ever got a 5 star rating befuddled me.  He never was that good.  

Lulz @ “F the haters”. Insane that was almost 20 fucking years ago....

[UncleSonny 6,791]

11 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

My whole point is neither were all that good.  There were Applewhite cultists who thought he was a clutch winner.  He was not. He overachieved as RS Freshman when we had Wane and Adams and Ricky plus a good OL.  And then due to the cultists we got the oversteer response from the "F the Haters Simms is awesome" online contingent that were just as dumb.  Applewhite wouldn't have won anymore games than Simms did against OU.  He does probably beat CU in 2001 and then go on to get his ass kicked by Miami in the title game. Both were limited and turnover prone. 

This is where you lose me. We certainly had the Major cultists but I don't think the "F the Haters" people really had any illusions of Simms being the superstar everyone hoped by 2001. They just argued he was the right choice to start over the incredibly limited Major and called out the fallacy of that cult.

Edited January 21, 2021 by UncleSonny

[Fletch 5,817]

Putting those OU games on Simms is insane. It’s like Greg Davis intentionally set him and Roy up to fail in the cotton bowl. Just astonishing how fucking bad Mack’s attitude towards the ou game was. Switch staffs and I guarantee Simms would’ve had a 400 yard 4td day with Roy having like 10 receptions for 220 and 2 tds on our way to a 63-14 beat down of ou. Fucking Mack 

[Nivek 17,369]

55 minutes ago, UncleSonny said:

This is where you lose me. We certainly had the Major cultists but I don't think the "F the Haters" people really had any illusions of Simms being the superstar everyone hoped by 2001. They just argued he was the right choice to start over the incredibly limited Major and called out the fallacy of that cult.

I have already stated this multiple times.  They just ignore it.  There was never a Cult of Simms.  They created this false dichotomy to try to appear reasonable.   Chris Simms received hate mail, phone calls, and harassment as a Texas QB.   Major did not.  They are the same mold of LSU fans who called and harassed Texas coaches and players, only those knuckleheads are better because they called and opposing school.   

[naija 2,961]

2 hours ago, Johnny Sack said:

A sizeable group of our fans still think Simms was 6'5" with a rocket arm.  Because that was the narrative.  I am 6'2" and he maybe has half an inch on me at best and his arm was nothing special. 

There is this thing called the NFL combine where they measure QBs.

Chris Simms' Combine Measurements.

Height: 76.4 inches

 

[Ignatius 4,131]

1 hour ago, Fletch said:

Putting those OU games on Simms is insane. It’s like Greg Davis intentionally set him and Roy up to fail in the cotton bowl. Just astonishing how fucking bad Mack’s attitude towards the ou game was. Switch staffs and I guarantee Simms would’ve had a 400 yard 4td day with Roy having like 10 receptions for 220 and 2 tds on our way to a 63-14 beat down of ou. Fucking Mack 

What’s your excuse for the Colorado game and 4 turnovers in a 17-play span? And how a different QB came in under the same OC, without the benefit of Cedric Benson, and almost dug out of that hole?

[Ignatius 4,131]

Nivek - seriously. Name he biggest 5 games either of them started.

[gsoda3 3,359]

 
A sizeable group of our fans still think Simms was 6'5" with a rocket arm.  Because that was the narrative.  I am 6'2" and he maybe has half an inch on me at best and his arm was nothing special.  How he ever got a 5 star rating befuddled me.  He never was that good.  

I dunno why you thought he was 6'2", but he was/is just shy of 6'5". And he had a cannon for an arm. Odd take.

[Valmy77 13,570]

1 hour ago, Nivek said:

I have already stated this multiple times.  They just ignore it.  There was never a Cult of Simms.  They created this false dichotomy to try to appear reasonable.   Chris Simms received hate mail, phone calls, and harassment as a Texas QB.   Major did not.  They are the same mold of LSU fans who called and harassed Texas coaches and players, only those knuckleheads are better because they called and opposing school.   

Simms did not deserve any of that. That was insane.

3 hours ago, Murfdogg21 said:

Here is the thing: Chris Simms was 0-2 against OU in Greg Davis specials with scores 14-3 and 35-24. In 2000, the score was 28-0 or 35-0 before Simms saw the field. Major did beat OU in 98 (with Ricky and Wane) and in the 99 shootout in Stoops’s first year, but have there been more pointless OU games since then that didn’t involve Mack or Charlie being near fired?

Yeah and he was awesome once he did see the field. He played badly in those games, regardless of what everybody around him did.

The 98 and 99 OU games were pointless? What ridiculous bullshit, they set us up to have great seasons before blowing it against Tech and A&M later on. And Chuck didn't beat OU in 2016, if he had he would probably have survived that season. 2013 was an important win as it nearly got Texas the Big 12 title. I was there, you cannot just make up random claims based on nothing. Meaningless? Why? Because we won without Simms?

Edited January 22, 2021 by Valmy77

[Valmy77 13,570]

44 minutes ago, Ignatius said:

What’s your excuse for the Colorado game and 4 turnovers in a 17-play span? And how a different QB came in under the same OC, without the benefit of Cedric Benson, and almost dug out of that hole?

There is no excuse just as there wasn't any for his performances against OU.

He was just not that great. No shade towards Simms I am sure he did the best he could.

[Armybrat 41,342]

23 hours ago, Valmy77 said:

Here is the thing: Chris Simms was 0-3 against OU and sucked complete shit all three times. If you want to come here and be QB you don't suck against OU. And if you do suck against OU you better be Vince Young.

Pete “4-0” Gardere ftw 

[Fletch 5,817]

1 hour ago, Ignatius said:

What’s your excuse for the Colorado game and 4 turnovers in a 17-play span? And how a different QB came in under the same OC, without the benefit of Cedric Benson, and almost dug out of that hole?

Look, I don’t give much of a shit about this 20 year old topic. My post was more about frustration with Mack and his approach to the ou game. You can put Majors name instead of Simms in my post. The ou debacles were 100% on Mack and GDGD until we let our nuts hang in 05

[Armybrat 41,342]

3 minutes ago, Fletch said:

Look, I don’t give much of a shit about this 20 year old topic. My post was more about frustration with Mack and his approach to the ou game. You can put Majors name instead of Simms in my post. The ou debacles were 100% on Mack and GDGD until we let VY’s nuts hang in 05

Fify

[PassiveAggressiveCoach 118]

Simms' massive shitting of the bed vs ou has me always on team Applewhite. 

[Had Enough 2,110]

What’s your excuse for the Colorado game and 4 turnovers in a 17-play span? And how a different QB came in under the same OC, without the benefit of Cedric Benson, and almost dug out of that hole?

Hey jackwagon what's Major's excuse for throwing 3 picks in the 2nd quarter versus a Pac-10 team in the very next game? Why was he allowed to finish the game after that and having only scored 20 points thru 3 quarters?

There was significantly more pressure on Simms than Major. And the above reference is one point showing that. The aforementioned negative garbage people pulled on Simms is another. The assumption that many have that Simms only played because of his dad.

Major never beat an OU team worth a damn. And as others have referenced some are attributing an OU loss to Simms when Applewhite started.

Unfortunately Mack didn't know how to win the big rival games. Just like UNC vs FSU. The 2005 and 2009 OU teams were not very good relatively speaking. Worse than the 2020 version even.

[Ignatius 4,131]

1 hour ago, Had Enough said:

Hey jackwagon what's Major's excuse for throwing 3 picks in the 2nd quarter versus a Pac-10 team in the very next game? Why was he allowed to finish the game after that and having only scored 20 points thru 3 quarters?

There was significantly more pressure on Simms than Major. And the above reference is one point showing that. The aforementioned negative garbage people pulled on Simms is another. The assumption that many have that Simms only played because of his dad.

Major never beat an OU team worth a damn. And as others have referenced some are attributing an OU loss to Simms when Applewhite started.

Unfortunately Mack didn't know how to win the big rival games. Just like UNC vs FSU. The 2005 and 2009 OU teams were not very good relatively speaking. Worse than the 2020 version even.

Let's compare performance vs teams ranked in the top 10 in at least one of the polls.

Applewhite was 3-3 (L to KState '98, W vs Nebraska '98, W vs aggy '98, W vs Nebraska '99, L vs Nebraska '99, L vs OU '00). 50.5% completion pct, 7 TDs, 8 INTs. Mediocre stats at best, but a .500 record.

Simms was 0-4 (L to Oregon '00, L to OU '01, L to CU '01, L to OU '02). 53% completion pct, 0 TDs, 14 INTs (plus a lost fumble against CU). 

 

Jesus Fucking Christ. Zero TDs passing vs 14 picks. And that's because of Mack/GDGD?

 

Come the fuck on...

 

 

Edited January 22, 2021 by Ignatius

[Had Enough 2,110]

Let's compare performance vs teams ranked in the top 10 in at least one of the polls.
Applewhite was 3-3 (L to KState '98, W vs Nebraska '98, W vs aggy '98, W vs Nebraska '99, L vs Nebraska '99, L vs OU '00). 50.5% completion pct, 7 TDs, 8 INTs. Mediocre stats at best, but a .500 record.
Simms was 0-4 (L to Oregon '00, L to OU '01, L to CU '01, L to OU '02). 53% completion pct, 0 TDs, 14 INTs (plus a lost fumble against CU). 
 
Jesus Fucking Christ. Zero TDs passing vs 14 picks. And that's because of Mack/GDGD?
 
Come the fuck on...
 
 

There's a lot of what ifs here.

Mack fared incredibly well vs Nebraska and the Aggies, no? And he was no good versus good OU teams, right? Two of those wins for Major came with a Heisman RB. His other win was followed up in that same year to that same team with a loss. And I think the offense put up a 0 in that loss. Yet that CU loss is the only game showing vs CU that year even though we beat them 41-7. And against Oregon how many potential TDs did we drop?

So for damn near any QB under Mack, save Colt, yeah throw out those OU games with Stoops at the helm. Should Simms have done better? Absolutely. And that TD/INT ratio is horrid no doubt. But hell Mack and Greg got shut out with a QB who some consider the greatest college football player ever vs OU only two years later.

And in spite of the records you referenced, Simms still had the better overall record so what does that tell you. Major was involved in some great moments for which we should all be grateful. But for many, they have forgotten the forgettable moments whereas the opposite is true for Simms. And since you never referenced my comment about the Washington Holiday Bowl, my guess is you forgot all about how that played out.

But thinking about it all is deflating. And the OU losses are hard to forget. Roy Williams diving over Robin perfectly depicts that era of TX-OU. That's one of your picks for Simms but not real sure how that's on him.

[Nivek 17,369]

10 hours ago, Ignatius said:

Let's compare performance vs teams ranked in the top 10 in at least one of the polls.

Applewhite was 3-3 (L to KState '98, W vs Nebraska '98, W vs aggy '98, W vs Nebraska '99, L vs Nebraska '99, L vs OU '00). 50.5% completion pct, 7 TDs, 8 INTs. Mediocre stats at best, but a .500 record.

Simms was 0-4 (L to Oregon '00, L to OU '01, L to CU '01, L to OU '02). 53% completion pct, 0 TDs, 14 INTs (plus a lost fumble against CU). 

 

Jesus Fucking Christ. Zero TDs passing vs 14 picks. And that's because of Mack/GDGD?

 

Come the fuck on...

 

 

So, Applewhites wins vs aggy count, but Simms wins vs Aggy do not.  Simms win vs Colorado doesn't count, but the loss to Colorado does count.  You don't have to act like Mr. Ignatius Reilly, but you choose to for some reason.     Is this one of those situational top 10 rankings like that top 10 team that Charlie Strong's ND team defeated?  Laughable, oh my valve! 

[UThomas 33]

Its interesting catching up on some of the videos of Simms over the last 20 years, some good ones out there.  He answers some of these questions on several clips on youtube - including reviewing his draft grading (where he talks about playing OU specifically), a good interview he does with Shanahan as the 49's coach now, and a few salty ones where he talks about major.

I still loved the game where he lit up A&M for 380 yards and one of the ATM DB's talked trash after the game and Simms said something around "you weren't even on the screen on the replay" LULZ