Simms v Applewhite: Offseason Thread of Dominance

[Nivek 17369]

13 hours ago, Ignatius said:

Nivek - seriously. Name he biggest 5 games either of them started.

biggest game is subjective, I have already stated my opinion of that above.  Wins vs New Mexico State were expected and losses to Top 5 OU squads counted.  Losing to New Mexico State would have been worse from a post-season perspective.  Losing to Kansas was what made the decision easy on Strong's tenure.  So from that perspective, losing the games you shouldn't matters more than winning the games you shouldn't.   

[Ignatius 4131]

8 hours ago, Nivek said:

So, Applewhites wins vs aggy count, but Simms wins vs Aggy do not.  Simms win vs Colorado doesn't count, but the loss to Colorado does count.  You don't have to act like Mr. Ignatius Reilly, but you choose to for some reason.     Is this one of those situational top 10 rankings like that top 10 team that Charlie Strong's ND team defeated?  Laughable, oh my valve! 

They are situational, but look at any of the teams above and tell me they weren’t ultimately top 10 teams that season (too lazy to do it myself).

Props for the reference to the inspiration behind my username, I’ve been IJR or Ignatius since I was on Prodigy bulletin boards in the late 80s...

[Nivek 17369]

12 minutes ago, Ignatius said:

They are situational, but look at any of the teams above and tell me they weren’t ultimately top 10 teams that season (too lazy to do it myself).

Props for the reference to the inspiration behind my username, I’ve been IJR or Ignatius since I was on Prodigy bulletin boards in the late 80s...

Sorry for my cuntyness (or is it cuntiness?).  What I took issue was how you included Colorado for the B12 game, but not the same Colorado that Simms beat earlier in the season, but you did include the Nebraska that Applewhite beat and the same team he lost to later in the season.  Ultimately, I think this is silly to pick and choose like this and arbitrarily assign what we think is important and then to use that as a metric.   I understand the rivalry element, but that is emotion.  And from a guy that used to race cars, butt dyno's lie.  Track times tell the real benefit of modifications. 

[4th&Five 41916]

 

[OneOfTheOutOfFocusGuys 2153]

On 1/18/2021 at 4:06 PM, utee94 said:

I remember laughing at this post 20 years ago.  What I didn't remember is that is was posted on September 10, 2001.  

i noticed that too

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11669]

1 hour ago, 4th&Five said:

 

My god Shannon Sharpe is obnoxious.  I was enjoying listening to Ricky and had to turn it off because Sharpe was wearing me out. 

[Machinator 32102]

 

[maninblack 7975]

Eli chose violence

[closetojumping 65333]

On 1/18/2021 at 10:53 PM, smokebomb said:

Chris providing his take on the situation from a few years ago:

The Applewhite discussion begins at 30:25. 

Wow. I'm glad to hear that the dude still loves Texas. Everything he said in that segment was dead nuts on, too.

On 1/18/2021 at 11:05 PM, longhornmatt said:

Not a great look bashing Major as much as he did.  Honestly, both Simms and Major seem like jerks from observing them in their post-college years.  Between them and some of the other top players we had in those years known for their “eccentricity”, I imagine those locker rooms must have been a mess.

I knew Ricky Williams' girlfriend that Applewhite was fucking. Applewhite was a grubby, shifty turd of a dude. I've talked to him far more recently and he still has a far higher opinion of himself than the results merit. 

One of my good friends was dating Simms on and off during his time at Texas. She's French and didn't know a fucking thing about football and didn't care, either. I assume that was a nice respite for Simms. She said the shit he had to deal with, especially after the CU Big 12 Title Game was some of the meanest shit she's ever seen in her life, to this day. Dude was pretty fucking tough. 

Anyway, I know it's a late recall from when these posts were put up, but this thread was just now high on the board and I'd never read it. I've always been Team Simms and always will be, especially after that interview. Also, Simms got the better end of the deal on women based on the ones I knew with both of them, plus the fat trainer chick that MA fucked while his wife was 9 months pregnant. 

 

[TexasBeta 1274]

Simms. I blame Mack for f’ing that whole thing up and Greg Davis. F the both of them. I give zero credit to “F you pay me” other than staying out of Vince’s way.

He f’d up the QB situation so many times beyond Vince and Colt and even then I’m sure he tried...

[markstanco 12774]

biggest game is subjective, I have already stated my opinion of that above.  Wins vs New Mexico State were expected and losses to Top 5 OU squads counted.  Losing to New Mexico State would have been worse from a post-season perspective.  Losing to Kansas was what made the decision easy on Strong's tenure.  So from that perspective, losing the games you shouldn't matters more than winning the games you shouldn't.   

What is amazing is that the qb who lost to kansas is still eligible to play college football in 2021.

[Fletch 5817]

7 hours ago, closetojumping said:

Wow. I'm glad to hear that the dude still loves Texas. Everything he said in that segment was dead nuts on, too.

I knew Ricky Williams' girlfriend that Applewhite was fucking. Applewhite was a grubby, shifty turd of a dude. I've talked to him far more recently and he still has a far higher opinion of himself than the results merit. 

One of my good friends was dating Simms on and off during his time at Texas. She's French and didn't know a fucking thing about football and didn't care, either. I assume that was a nice respite for Simms. She said the shit he had to deal with, especially after the CU Big 12 Title Game was some of the meanest shit she's ever seen in her life, to this day. Dude was pretty fucking tough. 

Anyway, I know it's a late recall from when these posts were put up, but this thread was just now high on the board and I'd never read it. I've always been Team Simms and always will be, especially after that interview. Also, Simms got the better end of the deal on women based on the ones I knew with both of them, plus the fat trainer chick that MA fucked while his wife was 9 months pregnant. 

 

To this day I hear friends saying “but Major had that ‘it’ factor!!!!” If by “it” they mean over the top asshole who’s ego is bigger than the trainer he plowed here, then I agree. It’s always fun how Majors bad games seemingly don’t count but Chris throwing a 2 yard down and out to Roy that ended up a yard and a half gain is all on Simms. 

[Longboard Horn 41332]

On 1/18/2021 at 3:34 PM, BornOrange said:

Wow, what a trip down memory lane.

Hornfans is still around?

 

On 1/18/2021 at 4:08 PM, Spider2YBanana said:

Hornsfans still exist. You learn something new every day 

Yup Hornfans is still around, but there's maybe 50-100 posters over there. 

[DigglerontheHoof 21532]

Amazing this discussion continues with such conviction and passion and full generation after the fact.  

[Johnny Sack 8397]

7 hours ago, Fletch said:

To this day I hear friends saying “but Major had that ‘it’ factor!!!!” If by “it” they mean over the top asshole who’s ego is bigger than the trainer he plowed here, then I agree. It’s always fun how Majors bad games seemingly don’t count but Chris throwing a 2 yard down and out to Roy that ended up a yard and a half gain is all on Simms. 

Neither were championship caliber QBs, but Chris was slightly better (and Major had a bum knee and would not have lasted the season his senior year behind that line).

As for Simms, you can't throw 8 picks against 0 TDs against OU or choke away a Big 12 title and trip to the national title game and be remembered all that fondly.

[RollLeft 5090]

Who has had a better career(define it as you like) post college?  

[Fletch 5817]

2 hours ago, Johnny Sack said:

Neither were championship caliber QBs, but Chris was slightly better (and Major had a bum knee and would not have lasted the season his senior year behind that line).

As for Simms, you can't throw 8 picks against 0 TDs against OU or choke away a Big 12 title and trip to the national title game and be remembered all that fondly.

Aren’t you the guy that thinks David Ash was better than both? 

[Johnny Sack 8397]

6 minutes ago, Fletch said:

Aren’t you the guy that thinks David Ash was better than both? 

He was on trajectory to be before concussions.

[Fletch 5817]

Ehhhh idk about that. Solid college qb? Sure. Simms level? Definitely not 

[Johnny Sack 8397]

24 minutes ago, Fletch said:

Ehhhh idk about that. Solid college qb? Sure. Simms level? Definitely not 

He had a 154 pass rating as a true sophomore and he certainly did not have as good of a supporting cast as Chris Simms.  Roy, BJ, Sloan, Benson, Scaife >>>>>>>> Jaxson Shipley, Mike Davis, DJ Grant, Jonathan Gray. 

[Funk Doctor Spock 13135]

8 hours ago, Longboard Horn said:

 

Yup Hornfans is still around, but there's maybe 50-100 posters over there. 

I was looking on the site that the day I found out it was still in existence, but yeah, it's mostly barron over there. 

[Nivek 17369]

Neither were championship caliber QBs, but Chris was slightly better (and Major had a bum knee and would not have lasted the season his senior year behind that line).
As for Simms, you can't throw 8 picks against 0 TDs against OU or choke away a Big 12 title and trip to the national title game and be remembered all that fondly.

Actually I remember Chris quite fondly. Apparently his teammates remember him fondly and preferred him to Applewhite. Simms was a better QB, and not mr. glass.

[Johnny Sack 8397]

1 hour ago, Nivek said:

Actually I remember Chris quite fondly. Apparently his teammates remember him fondly and preferred him to Applewhite. Simms was a better QB, and not mr. glass.

I’m sure his teammates liked him better.  That’s great.  He was tough and well liked. And not a championship quarterback.  The games he played where a championship was on the line, OU and CU, he was God awful.  

[UncleSonny 6791]

4 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

And not a championship quarterback.  The games he played where a championship was on the line, OU and CU, he was God awful.  

This is true and it kind of is what it is but it’s also pretty clear he wasn’t playing for a championship coach. 

Mack had 7 total seasons with Vince Young and Colt McCoy, objectively two of the best qbs in cfb history. Two big 12 championships in those 7 years. Those two titles also represent the entirety of his conference championships in a 30 year HC career. 

Pretty insane really for as many games as he’s won and as much talent has he has had. Simms played terrible with titles on the line and he doesn’t get a pass for that but it’s a large enough sample size to say that unless you are literally an all-time great qb you aren’t winning a title on a Mack team.

[Fletch 5817]

1 hour ago, UncleSonny said:

This is true and it kind of is what it is but it’s also pretty clear he wasn’t playing for a championship coach. 

Mack had 7 total seasons with Vince Young and Colt McCoy, objectively two of the best qbs in cfb history. Two big 12 championships in those 7 years. Those two titles also represent the entirety of his conference championships in a 30 year HC career. 

Pretty insane really for as many games as he’s won and as much talent has he has had. Simms played terrible with titles on the line and he doesn’t get a pass for that but it’s a large enough sample size to say that unless you are literally an all-time great qb you aren’t winning a title on a Mack team.

Yeah. Can you imagine what Urban or Saban or Pete Carroll would’ve done with Chris? Oh well. Chris flames out while Major almost died on the field in the NFL. Oh wait.....

[Mitch Cumsteen 18934]

I'm team Simms but that Colorado game was one of the worst performances by a QB in a big game ever. Just a brutal, painful game, the outcome of which still baffles me to this day. I remember like it was yesterday, sitting in the Texas Stadium parking lot post game picking up the ashes of our tailgate, trying to kill the pain with whatever mish mosh of leftover booze was still there and watching the Colorado fans celebrating like they had just witnessed the rapture. Everything broke right that day and then Simms pissed right down his own leg. Nobody deserves the shit he took that day and our "fans" embarrassed themselves 1,000,000x more than Simms ever did, but it was a full implosion exacerbated by Major coming in and almost saving the day. The OU games, I put completely on Mack but that one was an almost inexplicable performance. The entire debate took on a different slant after CU. What a horrible game. 

 

[Royal With Cheese 3]

7 hours ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

I'm team Simms but that Colorado game was one of the worst performances by a QB in a big game ever. Just a brutal, painful game, the outcome of which still baffles me to this day. I remember like it was yesterday, sitting in the Texas Stadium parking lot post game picking up the ashes of our tailgate, trying to kill the pain with whatever mish mosh of leftover booze was still there and watching the Colorado fans celebrating like they had just witnessed the rapture. Everything broke right that day and then Simms pissed right down his own leg. Nobody deserves the shit he took that day and our "fans" embarrassed themselves 1,000,000x more than Simms ever did, but it was a full implosion exacerbated by Major coming in and almost saving the day. The OU games, I put completely on Mack but that one was an almost inexplicable performance. The entire debate took on a different slant after CU. What a horrible game. 

 

I put completely on Mack but that one was an almost inexplicable performance."

 

Almost?

[Murfdogg21 4554]

9 hours ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

I'm team Simms but that Colorado game was one of the worst performances by a QB in a big game ever. Just a brutal, painful game, the outcome of which still baffles me to this day. 

Also kind of the underlying theme of the period. When Simms was in the game, GD ran his conservative version of Mike Shanahan offense; and when Applewhite was in we ran a more classic college scheme with downfield throws (and it could have been Major calling the plays). Against Colorado, every drive was a repeat of Benson zone-blocked runs and passes with inside WRs running slants and shallow crosses and outside WRs running 3 yard outs. Gary Barnett was probably in as much disbelief as Texas fans that we kept running those routes and Simms kept throwing them. Major came in and we started chucking it downfield immediately and mixing up the play calling. 
Also important to recall the 2000 aggy game when Simms called the chair/out-n-up route to BJ Johnson for a long TD, then Simms got his ass chewed for it. “That’s not what we do here, son!”

[RollLeft 5090]

On 3/2/2021 at 3:06 PM, 4th&Five said:

 

So apparently Major's now wife was Ricky's old girlfriend and she was the one that triggered Ricky's path to weed.   Ok.

[RollLeft 5090]

10 hours ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

I'm team Simms but that Colorado game was one of the worst performances by a QB in a big game ever. Just a brutal, painful game, the outcome of which still baffles me to this day. I remember like it was yesterday, sitting in the Texas Stadium parking lot post game picking up the ashes of our tailgate, trying to kill the pain with whatever mish mosh of leftover booze was still there and watching the Colorado fans celebrating like they had just witnessed the rapture. Everything broke right that day and then Simms pissed right down his own leg. Nobody deserves the shit he took that day and our "fans" embarrassed themselves 1,000,000x more than Simms ever did, but it was a full implosion exacerbated by Major coming in and almost saving the day. The OU games, I put completely on Mack but that one was an almost inexplicable performance. The entire debate took on a different slant after CU. What a horrible game. 

 

If I remember correctly there even was talk about the "crown" of the field at Texas Stadium being a hard place to throw in.  That day sucked balls.    

[Nivek 17369]

I’m sure his teammates liked him better.  That’s great.  He was tough and well liked. And not a championship quarterback.  The games he played where a championship was on the line, OU and CU, he was God awful.  

Ah the wookie defense.

[Hank Chinaski 6346]

13 hours ago, UncleSonny said:

Mack had 7 total seasons with Vince Young and Colt McCoy, objectively two of the best qbs in cfb history. Two big 12 championships in those 7 years. Those two titles also represent the entirety of his conference championships in a 30 year HC career. 

Well...yes, but Texas absolutely deserved the B12 title and a championship game appearance in 2008. The team had the best resume in the country and got completely screwed. Not getting fucked that year would change this 7-year scenario pretty dramatically. And it's not like RS Fr VY ('03) or Colt ('06) were two of the best QBs in history. And Colt was worse as a So. 

(Mainly I'm just still fucking bitter about 2008.)

As for the topic - Simms and Applewhite were nearly identical statistically; they were basically equals. Simms was the perceived underachiever and Major the perceived overachiever so it became a "talent vs grit" argument, which was more perception than reality. 

Edited March 20, 2021 by Hank Chinaski

[RollLeft 5090]

haha

Edited March 20, 2021 by RollLeft

[Restinmybones 111]

44 minutes ago, RollLeft said:

So apparently Major's now wife was Ricky's old girlfriend and she was the one that triggered Ricky's path to weed.   Ok.

Well, at least something good came out of the relationship. 

[Nivek 17369]

Well...yes, but Texas absolutely deserved the B12 title and a championship game appearance in 2008. The team had the best resume in the country and got completely screwed. Not getting fucked that year would change this 7-year scenario pretty dramatically. And it's not like RS Fr VY ('03) or Colt ('06) were two of the best QBs in history. And Colt was worse as a So. 
(Mainly I'm just still fucking bitter about 2008.)
As for the topic - Simms and Applewhite were nearly identical statistically; they were basically equals. Simms was the perceived underachiever and Major the perceived overachiever so it became a "talent vs grit" argument, which was more perception than reality. 

I don’t think Colt was worse as much as his line was worse. So many d-lineman were unengaged and getting their hands up to spike passes while the O-line stood around.

[UncleSonny 6791]

2 hours ago, Hank Chinaski said:

(Mainly I'm just still fucking bitter about 2008.)

Shit, aren’t we all. The 2008 team was clearly better than the 2009 team and we got jobbed.  

Even giving us that conf title gives Mack 3 conferences championships and 1 NC which basically puts him on par with Larry Coker.

Of course he’s a better coach than Coker, he built multiple programs up from mediocrity, way more wins and a better win percentage. It’s just kind of bizarre he has so few actual titles to show for it and I don’t think that’s all random/bad luck. 
 

 

[Hank Chinaski 6346]

20 minutes ago, UncleSonny said:

Shit, aren’t we all. The 2008 team was clearly better than the 2009 team and we got jobbed.  

Even giving us that conf title gives Mack 3 conferences championships and 1 NC which basically puts him on par with Larry Coker.

Of course he’s a better coach than Coker, he built multiple programs up from mediocrity, way more wins and a better win percentage. It’s just kind of bizarre he has so few actual titles to show for it and I don’t think that’s all random/bad luck. 
 

 

Agreed, it isn't all bad luck - Mack had his faults for sure - but I think you can make a reasonable case that some of it was. Simms imploding in the CU game; Colt getting knocked out of the K-St game in '06 and then was clearly still not himself in the A&M game (that team had already beaten OU and was rolling, plus that horrendous OPI call on Sweed cost us the ag game and a probable conference title); the screw job in '08 (and you could say the Gideon drop); Colt's injury in the Bama game. 

A few of those moments go differently and we could be having a very different conversation about this. I know - coulda/woulda/shoulda and all that - but luck is just part of it. Hey he had some good breaks too along the way, maybe they all evened out. But hell, in that era, Meyer won 2 titles at Florida and never went undefeated, Miles won a title with 2 losses, Stoops went to a title game with a loss, etc, while it seemed like Texas always had to be absolutely perfect to get there (no better example than 08, where 1 play that didn't go our way cost a conference title and a possible national title). Them's the breaks.