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The 2021 Tampa Bay Rays thread

shadow_operative

By shadow_operative
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henrygandorf
henrygandorf

we back?   also yes, h2h for sure. and @DaysOff the only reason we hide it in here is because they kept trying to move it to the gambling forum, and nobody ever contributed to the

NorthLoop
NorthLoop
henrygandorf
henrygandorf

as a multi-winner as well, i agree that derka should pay for it. 

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shadow_operative

shadow_operative 15932

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1 hour ago, BigOrange1 said:

holy shit, baseball season starts a week from today??  that certainly snuck up on me.

i can't speak for you, but this fantasy hoops season has been a pretty intense one, with the projected playoff teams/bye teams all beating each other up all year, which has taken all of focus on how close we are to baseball season and lent it to hoops. 

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henrygandorf

henrygandorf 29201

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not for this year, but some potential rule tweaks for coming years:

-if qs/w become obsolete, i've heard of leagues using ip.  it's actually kinda interesting because of the way it can counteract your non-counting pitching stats.

-i would consider going to an auction format.

-we've discussed keepers, and i think i would be down for some sort of keeper format (starting with next year's draft).  keepers can also work in tandem with auction, as you can set/keep the pricing, and turn it into a mini-dynasty mode.

-i don't want to go full dynasty.  i like the idea of being able to keep a small number of players for 1 year.  i don't like the idea that somebody can draft juan soto and have them for a decade.  fuck that noise.

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Fawesome

Fawesome 111

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7 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

not for this year, but some potential rule tweaks for coming years:

-if qs/w become obsolete, i've heard of leagues using ip.  it's actually kinda interesting because of the way it can counteract your non-counting pitching stats.

-i would consider going to an auction format.

-we've discussed keepers, and i think i would be down for some sort of keeper format (starting with next year's draft).  keepers can also work in tandem with auction, as you can set/keep the pricing, and turn it into a mini-dynasty mode.

-i don't want to go full dynasty.  i like the idea of being able to keep a small number of players for 1 year.  i don't like the idea that somebody can draft juan soto and have them for a decade.  fuck that noise.

Solid ideas and im surprised we haven't incorporated some keeper rules since most of us have been around for 5+ years. 

 

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henrygandorf

henrygandorf 29201

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generally, keepers can work in a variety of ways, and i agree, since it's ~ the same group every year, we should do it.  things to consider:

-whether it should be mandatory (every team has to keep a certain amount of players)

-how it affects someone who abandons their team and needs to be replaced (we don't want to penalize a new owner)

-if it's not mandatory, then what do you give up to keep someone (and what do you get for not keeping someone)

-what are the rules for keeping?  are there draft pick restrictions (meaning you can only keep guys drafted 10th round or later).  does that guy have to be on your team the whole season?  personally i think if you trade someone, that team then gets to keep him or he is unkeepable.  but if you drop someone (injuries?) then you can still keep him.

-how do you handle pickups?  can you keep a pickup?  that creates a frenzy at the end of the year with young guys and could be dangerous.

-if we go to auction league setup, then keepers become clearer.  you can keep for the price you bought + a certain % for a certain amount of years (if more than one, his salary should keep going up, but that's more dynasty shit, i prefer 1 year keepers).

-if we keep it snake draft, then you should give up a draft pick to keep a certain player (this is how my main football leagues have operated for over a decade).

 

i think now is the exact time to have these discussions (for 2022 and beyond) because now is when everyone is engaged.  if you wait til november, nobody gives a shit.

thoughts?

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APMP

APMP 688

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Keepers can get complicated fast.

But, if we do kerpers, I like the idea of keepers with "progressive draft round" prices and a max number of consecutive years kept.

At the risk of inviting a bunch of TLDRs, here's a proposal to get discussions started. A fantasy basketball league and a fantasy football league I was in have each used it successfully.

1. Each year before the draft, you can keep zero, one, or two players from your previous season's roster. The vast majority of your roster must thus be drafted each year, which keeps things interesting even if you don't have anybody worth keeping.

2. You cannot keep a guy if he was drafted (not kept, see below) the first 3 rounds in the previous season. This makes a bunch of superstars unkeepable each season. And you cannot keep a guy if he has been kept each of the past 3 seasons.

3. If you keep a player, you forfeit the draft pick corresponding to N rounds before the round in which the player was drafted or kept the previous season. N=2 is a good balance imo. So, if N=2 and I drafted Otani in the 5th round in 2021, I can keep him instead of my 3rd round pick in 2022. I could also keep him for my 1st round pick in 2023, and if I did, my 1st round pick in 2024. In 2025 I could not keep him because of rule #2.

4. A player carries his keeper price tag all season long, even if dropped to waivers/free agency. So if I drop Ohtani after drafting him in the 5th, and HG then picks him up, it would cost HG a 3rd rounder to keep Ohtani next season.

5. Any player not drafted or kept carries a Xth round keeper price for the following season. X can be set depending on how valuable a keeper you want a waiver wire gem to be the next 1-3 seasons (and directly controls if there is a potential young guy pickup frenzy at the end of the season). For example, lets say X=12, i.e., undrafted free agents can be kept in round 12 next year. Combining rules #3 and #5, if you keep two undrafted free agents next year, you would keep them in rounds 12 and 11.

---

If we do keepers, we should probably agree not to mess around with roster settings or scoring settings from here on out because doing so usually impacts keeper value.

If we allow draft pick trades, there would be one more rule involved, but I'll assume I don't want draft pick trades.

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shadow_operative

shadow_operative 15932

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caveat emptor re: keepers-

it makes doing mocks impossible. 

we switched to a keeper league in the shaggy hoops league a couple years ago, and while my keepers have been awesome and my teams have also been awesome, i definitely liked the league a lot better before we switched. my latest reason why:

my team has been way out ahead of the pack for at least a few weeks now, so i have zero reason to make moves. meanwhile everyone who is out of contention for this year is having a fire sale, and everyone who wants to beat me in the playoffs is taking advantage. losing teams are trading guys who are out for the rest of the year for top 10-15 overall players. i'm sure that's awesome for teams 2-4 in our league, but it's been pretty aggravating for me. i vote 'no' on moving to a keeper league. i doubt that anyone else agrees, but i really don't like it. 

Edited by shadow_operative
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APMP

APMP 688

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If I am reading it correctly, the issue is that teams out of the playoffs trade for injured guys they will keep (because their Tommy John recovery will be complete by next year), and in doing so freely send studs in exchange to the playoff teams.

Limiting the number of players each team can keep will usually fix that. And in my proposal two things address the problem: players drafted in rounds 1-3 can't be kept, and players carry their keeper cost all season long.


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shadow_operative

shadow_operative 15932

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9 hours ago, henrygandorf said:

i understand about mocking. the rest of your post i do not understand. 

i think keepers should be limited and only guys you drafted should be eligible. 

late season trades and fa pickups should not affect keepers. 

see that makes more sense. that way Lamelo Ball (out for the year) doesn't get traded for Andre Drummond and Serge Ibaka, two very legit players. a contending team lost one of its best players and instead of it hurting him, he essentially just went and added a top 10 overall player from a super secret FA pool. meanwhile the team that sucked this year just added a keeper for a favor. that seems less than above board to me. 

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APMP

APMP 688

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a couple of years ago when DJL joined NYY i drafted him with my final pick, but then dropped him week one. someone else added him, and he was an all star/mvp candidate. let's say that i had been able to add him back from the FA pool- would he still be a keeper for me?
I actually like having the option to keep a FA or trade addition. Otherwise every trade is for a rental, which seems weird for a keeper league.
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henrygandorf

henrygandorf 29201

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4 minutes ago, APMP said:
13 minutes ago, shadow_operative said:
a couple of years ago when DJL joined NYY i drafted him with my final pick, but then dropped him week one. someone else added him, and he was an all star/mvp candidate. let's say that i had been able to add him back from the FA pool- would he still be a keeper for me?

I actually like having the option to keep a FA or trade addition. Otherwise every trade is for a rental, which seems weird for a keeper league.

well it's a keeper league.  not a dynasty league.  i don't really want to play in a dynasty league.  i assume that would include draft pick trading (including future draft picks) and i don't think any of us have the will or brainpower to oversee that nonsense.

to trade or not to trade someone you'd like to keep is part of the strategy (if we decide to do it that way).

hopefully a few more people will chime in on what they're feeling.  if everybody hates this, it's probably not worth the quibbling.

same with the auction question.

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APMP

APMP 688

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well it's a keeper league.  not a dynasty league.  i don't really want to play in a dynasty league.  i assume that would include draft pick trading (including future draft picks) and i don't think any of us have the will or brainpower to oversee that nonsense.
to trade or not to trade someone you'd like to keep is part of the strategy (if we decide to do it that way).
hopefully a few more people will chime in on what they're feeling.  if everybody hates this, it's probably not worth the quibbling.
same with the auction question.
Agreed on not wanting a dynasty league. That's why I prefer two keepers per team max and a draft pick being replaced for each guy you keep. Whether the guy was drafted by you or not doesn't matter as much to me.
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NOMAAA

NOMAAA 1696

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14 hours ago, henrygandorf said:

so who's the treasurer, and how do we feel about coughing up the entry fee now and putting it all in bitcoin in hopes that the pot will be bigger upon payout?

or we can buy some topshots.

but yes, i vote to put it in crypto.

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Planet Houston

Planet Houston 4943

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38 minutes ago, Fawesome said:

Solid draft. I give myself an A++

Riding trout all the way to back to back championships.

I was sweating the prospects of passing on Trout at 3 all day. Then I fucking missed my pick because of a work obligation I could not get out of.

I guess it’s meant to be. Still not sure which way I would have gone. Good luck!

Edited by Planet Houston
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Fawesome

Fawesome 111

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Just now, shadow_operative said:

but hey, at least you jabronis left me the 2021 MVP all the way at pick 6. i had Jose Ramirez locked and loaded and then BAM- Soto just drops into my lap. preciate y'all. 

Trout at 4 wasnt a sure thing. I had Soto queued up for about 5 seconds. 

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