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Trump's finances (NO POLITICS!)

bolverk

By bolverk
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TexasEd

TexasEd 8142

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6 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

The other thing that has become quite apparent is that Trump does not hesitate to involve his lawyers in criminal and quasi-criminal endeavors.

The cynical among us knew that to be true forever, but now it is clearly apparent to all sentient beings.

A lawyer or two in a white shoe firm may have been able to be complicit in the past, but now everyone in any given firm has a prick up their arse (pricked up ears) about doing business with or for Trump, apart from collection issues and appearances.

He'll end up with the accountant equivalent of Rudy Giuliani and Kraken lady.  They'll operate out of Four Seasons Florist and set him up as a sovereign citizen and not pay any taxes.  Can't fail.

 

Edited by TexasEd
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Armybrat

Armybrat 40988

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I have no doubt that Trump is buried up to his raccoon eyes in multiple felonies dating back decades. I wouldn’t shed a tear if he was convicted of any of Such crimes.

But actually jailing him would spark some violent unrest among the most rabid of his supporters. 

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BradInATX

BradInATX 9208

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I have no doubt that Trump is buried up to his raccoon eyes in multiple felonies dating back decades. I wouldn’t shed a tear if he was convicted of any of Such crimes.
But actually jailing him would spark some violent unrest among the most rabid of his supporters. 

Then they can go to jail with him. Fuck around and find out. You don't ignore the rule of law because it's going to upset people.

(Trump is never going to see the inside of a cell, but still)
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Armybrat

Armybrat 40988

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I assume you felt the same way concerning the anarchist behavior in Portland, San Francisco, et al?
(not referencing BLM either)

edited to add, whomever killed that Capitol Police officer should be executed in Leavenworth.

Edited by Armybrat
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BradInATX

BradInATX 9208

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I assume you felt the same way concerning the anarchist behavior in Portland, San Francisco, et al?
(not referencing BLM either)
edited to add, whomever killed that Capitol Police officer should be executed in Leavenworth.


Sure. Of Course.

Are you saying that there were criminals at those events that weren't prosecuted for political reasons? As far as I know they prosecuted everyone they could catch and prove crimes on.

I don't recall an instance of a DA saying "well this person committed crimes but sentencing them would piss people off so we're not going to bother". But I'm open to evidence showing otherwise.
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BradInATX

BradInATX 9208

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1 minute ago, Armybrat said:

I was referencing this:
 

https://www.koin.com/news/protests/heres-how-many-people-had-protest-charges-dropped-in-september/

 

 

Is it possible that those 200 people were arrested and didn't actually commit any crimes? People are arrested and released all the time, especially when the police are making broad sweeping arrests and sorting it out later.

Here's another time where a bunch of people were arrested and released: https://www.npr.org/2019/04/03/709432311/texas-prosecutor-drops-all-charges-in-2015-biker-shootout-that-killed-9

This is for another thread probably, so I'll leave it at that. But my original point stands. If Trump, or any politician, committed crimes, you don't let the inmates run the asylum. You don't set precedent that elected officials can commit crimes as long as their supporters commit enough violence to scare people. What a horrible slippery slope that would be.

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Armybrat

Armybrat 40988

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I didn’t say any of those who committed crimes should skate, just be treated equally. Some of those who had lesser offenses were certainly let off in Portland. 
Some of those dumbbutts who breached the Capitol shouldn’t be guilty of anything more than trespass & disobeying lawful orders to gtfo. The vandals, assaulters, & death-threateners are clearly seditionist traitors and should pay for it.

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Guest Lobo

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serious question---does Trump have a registered family office?  I don't know of a single billionaire that doesn't have their own SFO to handle outside investments.  I've never heard anything about one and there's no mention of one in any of the directories.  There's nobody out there who purports to work for a Trump SFO.  I'm sure they "handle" everything internally, but every single billionaire (or really anybody worth over $100mm) usually deploys an MFO/SFO beyond private wealth management/private banking even if they made their fortune in the investing space to begin with. 

I know many of these types keep it close to the vest and don't advertise their family office structure, but this is not a family that shies away from talking about their money/investments/success.  Plus, we've read plenty about his business dealings, charitable foundation, taxes, trusts, net worth, etc.  It's strange that a family office proper, has never come up.  I mean "The Trump Organization" acts like it is, but it's not licensed or chartered to do what family offices do.  Just because it handles their real estate investments doesn't make it an SFO.  A fortune of that size would have a small team running global equities, fixed income, private, alts/hedge, cash equivalents, etc.  And they would do outside the family business for a dozen legal, ethical, and strategic reasons.  Plus the SFO team usually advises the charitable arm of a fortune that size, and handles treasury management as lump sums come in from say TV show royalties or property sales.  anyway, never heard of a billionaire that runs their family office through their main business for a hundred reasons of bad idea jeans. 

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52-80

52-80 19277

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10 minutes ago, Lobo said:

  Plus the SFO team usually advises the charitable arm of a fortune that size, and handles treasury management as lump sums come in from say TV show royalties or property sales.  anyway, never heard of a billionaire that runs their family office through their main business for a hundred reasons of bad idea jeans. 

No need.  He can just take the ACH in his Marcus by GS account and funnel it to LendingClub to make some gainz

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Armybrat

Armybrat 40988

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1 hour ago, Lobo said:

serious question---does Trump have a registered family office?  I don't know of a single billionaire that doesn't have their own SFO to handle outside investments.  I've never heard anything about one and there's no mention of one in any of the directories.  There's nobody out there who purports to work for a Trump SFO.  I'm sure they "handle" everything internally, but every single billionaire (or really anybody worth over $100mm) usually deploys an MFO/SFO beyond private wealth management/private banking even if they made their fortune in the investing space to begin with. 

I know many of these types keep it close to the vest and don't advertise their family office structure, but this is not a family that shies away from talking about their money/investments/success.  Plus, we've read plenty about his business dealings, charitable foundation, taxes, trusts, net worth, etc.  It's strange that a family office proper, has never come up.  I mean "The Trump Organization" acts like it is, but it's not licensed or chartered to do what family offices do.  Just because it handles their real estate investments doesn't make it an SFO.  A fortune of that size would have a small team running global equities, fixed income, private, alts/hedge, cash equivalents, etc.  And they would do outside the family business for a dozen legal, ethical, and strategic reasons.  Plus the SFO team usually advises the charitable arm of a fortune that size, and handles treasury management as lump sums come in from say TV show royalties or property sales.  anyway, never heard of a billionaire that runs their family office through their main business for a hundred reasons of bad idea jeans. 

Cayman Islands?

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Guest Lobo

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that's just it, many billionaires of course have off-shore accounts.  But 95% of them maintain a U.S. domiciled and registered family office for dozens of reasons-tax, legal, charitable, and just growing the corpus of their assets.  There's a reason that almost all of them do it the exact same way.  Trump is literally the only exception I've seen thusfar.  I know he's a real game-changer, a real Maverick, doesn't play by the rules.  But this is very curious, to say the least. 

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CooterBrown

CooterBrown 18089

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that's just it, many billionaires of course have off-shore accounts.  But 95% of them maintain a U.S. domiciled and registered family office for dozens of reasons-tax, legal, charitable, and just growing the corpus of their assets.  There's a reason that almost all of them do it the exact same way.  Trump is literally the only exception I've seen thusfar.  I know he's a real game-changer, a real Maverick, doesn't play by the rules.  But this is very curious, to say the least. 


It’s almost as if it’s a complete facade and there’s no real wealth behind it. Just appearances generated from skimming off the top of loans taken to pay off other loans.

It’s not almost. That’s what it is.
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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31679

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2 hours ago, Lobo said:

serious question---does Trump have a registered family office?  I don't know of a single billionaire that doesn't have their own SFO to handle outside investments.  I've never heard anything about one and there's no mention of one in any of the directories.  There's nobody out there who purports to work for a Trump SFO.  I'm sure they "handle" everything internally, but every single billionaire (or really anybody worth over $100mm) usually deploys an MFO/SFO beyond private wealth management/private banking even if they made their fortune in the investing space to begin with. 

I know many of these types keep it close to the vest and don't advertise their family office structure, but this is not a family that shies away from talking about their money/investments/success.  Plus, we've read plenty about his business dealings, charitable foundation, taxes, trusts, net worth, etc.  It's strange that a family office proper, has never come up.  I mean "The Trump Organization" acts like it is, but it's not licensed or chartered to do what family offices do.  Just because it handles their real estate investments doesn't make it an SFO.  A fortune of that size would have a small team running global equities, fixed income, private, alts/hedge, cash equivalents, etc.  And they would do outside the family business for a dozen legal, ethical, and strategic reasons.  Plus the SFO team usually advises the charitable arm of a fortune that size, and handles treasury management as lump sums come in from say TV show royalties or property sales.  anyway, never heard of a billionaire that runs their family office through their main business for a hundred reasons of bad idea jeans. 

People with family offices are actually wealthy.

Trump just runs a mega check kiting scheme.  There's no accumulation and no need for a family office.

I bet if you looked at an income statement, his entire income is based on fees that come off the top:  management, consulting, licensing, etc.  None of which require any of his properties or investments to actually generate a profit, just enough income to pay his fucking fees.

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Armybrat

Armybrat 40988

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1 hour ago, Lobo said:

that's just it, many billionaires of course have off-shore accounts.  But 95% of them maintain a U.S. domiciled and registered family office for dozens of reasons-tax, legal, charitable, and just growing the corpus of their assets.  There's a reason that almost all of them do it the exact same way.  Trump is literally the only exception I've seen thusfar.  I know he's a real game-changer, a real Maverick, doesn't play by the rules.  But this is very curious, to say the least. 

Delaware has more big national corporations registered than all the other states, or so I’ve read.

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Armybrat

Armybrat 40988

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58 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

People with family offices are actually wealthy.

Trump just runs a mega check kiting scheme.  There's no accumulation and no need for a family office.

I bet if you looked at an income statement, his entire income is based on fees that come off the top:  management, consulting, licensing, etc.  None of which require any of his properties or investments to actually generate a profit, just enough income to pay his fucking fees.

I think you may be correct. House of cards.

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bolverk

bolverk 29813

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4 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

People with family offices are actually wealthy.

Trump just runs a mega check kiting scheme.  There's no accumulation and no need for a family office.

I bet if you looked at an income statement, his entire income is based on fees that come off the top:  management, consulting, licensing, etc.  None of which require any of his properties or investments to actually generate a profit, just enough income to pay his fucking fees.

I don't know jack about high finance, but what y'all are describing reminds me of a guy in Lubbock who was going to law school I knew back in the 1990s that would max out his credit limit on one card and then get another card to pack the debt on the previous one. I believe he did that multiple times. This was before I moved down to Austin and before Facebook, so I fell out of contact with him. I'm sure it finally caught up with him but don't know how that finally turned out. Maybe he was able to survive it long enough until he made the big bucks once he went into practice. Again, no idea. 

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Blotto

Blotto 23681

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22 hours ago, NoRagrets said:

That’s a naked relative; How different are his revenue% versus other hotel and resort operators?

He's doing better than Hyatt. 2019 revenue was 2.4 billion. TTM revenue is 1.1 billion and that likely includes Q4 of 2019

 

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Pato del Muerto

Pato del Muerto 52863

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 1/22/2021 at 5:47 AM, CooterBrown said:

 


It’s almost as if it’s a complete facade and there’s no real wealth behind it. Just appearances generated from skimming off the top of loans taken to pay off other loans.

It’s not almost. That’s what it is.

 

He’s ponzi-ing himself?  But may have hit the point where no new debt is possible, so it’s about to collapse?

Edited by Pato del Muerto
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Guest Lobo

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His ego prevents him from making that otherwise decently solid play.  He still wanted to show people he could sponsor, underwrite, fund, complete, and deliver carry on a real estate or similar project from soup-to-nuts and with all levels of the capital stack locked in with a little taste for him.  So he still tried to do it, and will try again now that he's out of office.  He'll try again to go from dealflow to exit on a ground-up office or a resort and he'll fuck it up.  That's what he does.  He'll obviously strip some management fees and a placement fee for JV and/or debt facility.  

But I'm telling you, he's the fucking Phillip Green (Kevin Pollack in "Casino") of his world.  He can hustle his way into some shit but he'll fuck it up.  He's barely more competent and honorable than Don Lapre.  But give him credit, he was a fucking mastermind of maximizing his branding ability from bottled water to TV shows to Insurrections against a sovereign government.  Never saw so many smart people fall for so much stupid fucking bullshit and be all the prouder for it.  His business legacy will be poured over in decades, not years.  

FWIW---we're just weeks away for the first shoe to drop on how grossly incompetent he was in business prior to taking office.  So those of you who still adore his business prowess...begin steeling yourselves.  You're going to have to marry some seriously contradictory bullshit in your heads so find a place in your mind to carve out for what is beyond illogical.  The sublimely stupid is about to reveal itself and you'll need to justify it for business purposes.  I wish you well.  

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Guest Lobo

Guest Lobo

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1 minute ago, Pato del Muerto said:

Hyatt wasn’t hosting the president and his team every weekend for golf or shopping or whatever else. 

And I doubt the Pritzker family would allow one Trumper one night in one of their properties so long as they have breath in their bodies.  

You gotta look at how REVPAR has shifted once he builds/acquires a property... to get a better picture of how incompetent a hotelier Trump is.  

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Serak The Preparer

Serak The Preparer 3436

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17 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Isn’t a mar a lago membership cost 200k? So 10 net memberships were sold?

That also assumes that there was no change in revenue for food / lodging / gold / etc. for the rest of the revenue stream. Given travel restrictions I would be surprised if most resorts equivalent did not experience significant decline in these areas. In essence, if Mar a Lago was a "normal" resort, would need to have netted well more than 10 memberships to increase revenue by $2 million.

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Guest Lobo

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A handful of his properties, mainly the ones he visited with great regularity---primarily Mar-a-Lago---experienced an actual increase in REVPAR.  Which is unusual for any hotel that saw increased revenue in 2020.  Most had to offer insane discounts, block bookings, and alluringly decreased rack rates.  But his somehow were able to command increases in REVPAR, a finitely small number of properties, likely due to his national security requirements being able to conveniently command large blocs of rooms at Mar-a-Lago for 4 years and paying well above rack rate/wildest REVPAR dreams...particularly during Covid-19.  It's good work if you can get it.  

But again, I am just in awe of his business prowess.  Not a clever hotelier like Jonathan Rose, but rather someone who grifts the absolute shit out of the hard-working American taxpayer to get enrich their own private businesses despite the violation of a dozen federal laws and constitutional clauses.  

I think the funniest thing about all this is how stupid most of his 74mm voters are and that they'll never be fiscally able to get within 100 yards of one of his properties and I can stay at one any time I want out of pure irony.  

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Guest Lobo

Guest Lobo

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I know on a few deals, not ALL BUT SOME you fucking apologists, in lieu of GP co-invest...he got higher than standard carry in exchange for the name/branding and partial-recourse guarantee on the debt.  So yeah, he's fucked on a lot of this shit.  Nobody's gonna call in a note on a sitting President.  Mostly because it's never been done before.  But it's open season on Commander Dipshit here in a few months.  

Asking the Secretary of State of Georgia to find one more vote than he lost by was suspicious.  But Extending your recourse lines of credit a few months into what you thought would be your second term so you could punt the payments for another 4 years is just sublimely insane.  

It is literally impossible he's this stupid at business.  

"Oh yeah Lobo, then how'd he get so rich while people like you are just commentating on it?"  you might ask. 

NoCR/  if you thought he was a self-made billionaire...you're really not gonna enjoy what happens to him in the next 18 months as far as business goes.  I don't think he ran for President to escape his business empire crumbling around him.  That's a little too meta-fiction.  But when he saw he was either gonna win or at least build a substantial wing of the GOP under his own bosom...he parlayed more subordinated debt/restructuring than anyone thought possible.  As they say in "Snatch"...he's Proper Fucked. 

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Guest Lobo

Guest Lobo

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Just look at the acquisitions/sales ledger of the Trump Organization in 2017, 2018, 2019, and 2020.  That tells you all you need to know.  But of course, most of us are just too blind to see the genius chess movements behind the scenes.  

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Guest Lobo

Guest Lobo

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I think he’ll get plenty of speaking offers but I think he will decline most of them because it’s usually well publicized how   Much a former president gets for those events.  And he won’t want people to know he’ll jump at $250k.  

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Wally Fairway

Wally Fairway 5600

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On 1/24/2021 at 7:49 PM, Lobo said:

Mar-a-Lago revenues up $2.0mm over the last fiscal year.  Impressive considering the massive hit to hospitality and tourism during Covid.  

 

On 1/24/2021 at 9:00 PM, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Isn’t a mar a lago membership cost 200k? So 10 net memberships were sold?

I doubt it is memberships being sold, more likely it is all the rental income, and food and beverage service, directly related to the First Family going there for weekends. And all of the secret service, and administration staff that go along with them and they have to rent rooms at the resort and dine at the resort. Those fees are not discounted at all, so millions is the number that I've seen, but don't know how accurate any of it is.

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Guest Lobo

Guest Lobo

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That is precisely what happened, exactly.  They charged full rack rate/full freight costs for every single last bottle of water and late checkout.  With that big an entourage for that many nights per year, you can easily turn a down year in hospitality during Covid-19 into a profitable one.  Several other Trump hotels that he did not frequent lost money in 2020 like so many of their contemporaries.  Gee, I wonder why that was?  It's like there's an email record out there of the First Family that proves they didn't even bother to negotiate discounts based on the en masse bookings they make at properties.  I guess in a demented way, they are really good negotiators---for themselves (and even then the family's net worth is probably going to be underwater in about 24 months).    

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