Abolish the filibuster!

[406W30th 1111]

Some interesting ideas about how we could keep the filibuster but have it not actually be a total piece of shit:

Fine, Keep the Filibuster. Kill the 60-Vote Requirement Instead.

 

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If so many senators are committed to preserving “the filibuster,” I say we let them leave it in place officially, while getting rid of the rule in practice.

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Casey School of Public Policy’s Michael Ettlinger proposes that we “allow any group of at least 41 senators who represent more people than the other 59 senators to block legislation—but if they don’t represent more people they can’t block.”

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But there are more modest tweaks that would serve similar purposes. Norm Ornstein has proposed simply placing the onus on the minority to make a filibuster rather than on the majority to break one. “Instead of 60 votes required to end debate,” he suggested last year, “the procedure should require 40 votes to continue it. If at any time the minority cannot muster 40 votes, debate ends, cloture is invoked, and the bill can be passed by the votes of a simple majority.”

 

[Biff Tannen 45497]

4 minutes ago, 406W30th said:

Casey School of Public Policy’s Michael Ettlinger proposes that we “allow any group of at least 41 senators who represent more people than the other 59 senators to block legislation—but if they don’t represent more people they can’t block.”

This isn't a terrible idea, IMO. It's damn sure more democratic.

[Js1 85110]

I'm for that.  As fun as "abolish the filibuster!" sounds, we need to reform it to make it more democratic.

• You have to speak, it can't just be a "we are going to filibuster" threat - get your ass on the floor and read War and Peace until you piss and shit yourself.  If Wendy Davis can do it in pink sneakers, a US Senator can do it.  
• 40 to continue a filibuster, not 60 to end a filibuster is a GREAT idea

[softlynow 1783]

Anything but simple majority rules in the Senate is silly. The filibuster wasn't in the Senate's original rules, and only came about because Aaron Burr was a moron.

The Senate already protects minority interests by constitutional design. Either make the Senate more democratic in makeup, or in function. The former requires amendment, the latter apparently requires heaping largesse on West Virginia and Arizona. WV definitely needs federal help, Arizona not so much, but Dems need to figure out the cost of getting rid of this stupid rule.

[David Dennison 18659]

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

 

[Biff Tannen 45497]

9 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

 

I feel like we are going to continue to see this language through 2022.  And then the Rs will win back the House and it will all be for naught.

[David Dennison 18659]

Anyone have any ideas on how to kill or reform the filibuster without 50 votes?

[Js1 85110]

18 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Anyone have any ideas on how to kill or reform the filibuster without 50 votes?

*crickets*

Now, if (and more likely, when) the GOP filibusters the infrastructure bill (because Hawley or Cruz or Tuberville or someone will make sure of it) and Joe Manchin isn't going to get his billions of dollars for WV roads, tunnels, rail, rural broadband, etc., this discussion will come up again and he'll likely be more open to it. 

Edited March 1, 2021 by Js1

[wildcat09 29257]

32 minutes ago, Js1 said:

*crickets*

Now, if (and more likely, when) the GOP filibusters the infrastructure bill (because Hawley or Cruz or Tuberville or someone will make sure of it) and Joe Manchin isn't going to get his billions of dollars for WV roads, tunnels, rail, rural broadband, etc., this discussion will come up again and he'll likely be more open to it. 

The whole charade with Manchin is really starting to annoy me because the script of how he'll come around is so transparent. Just fucking skip to the end Joe and say you'll support filibuster reform because it's necessary to get that pork you want, so we can all freak out about why Sinema is fucking things up and pressure her to cave.

 

 

[Js1 85110]

9 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

The whole charade with Manchin is really starting to annoy me because the script of how he'll come around is so transparent. Just fucking skip to the end Joe and say you'll support filibuster reform because it's necessary to get that pork you want, so we can all freak out about why Sinema is fucking things up and pressure her to cave.

 

 

Political theater for him.  He can't say it until he can adequately go home to WV and tell them "I fought for money this state badly needed and the GOP obstructed it.  I had to do it"

The WV governor endorsing the COVID-relief bill was his saving grace to vote for it, as is.  The WV governor will also probably whole heartedly endorse the stimulus bill to get those funds into state coffers to pour back into WV.  That will be his ace in the hole - "Governor Justice and I want the money for WV, so we have to abolish/reform the filibuster"

[wildcat09 29257]

1 minute ago, Js1 said:

Political theater for him.  He can't say it until he can adequately go home to WV and tell them "I fought for money this state badly needed and the GOP obstructed it.  I had to do it"

The WV governor endorsing the COVID-relief bill was his saving grace to vote for it, as is.  The WV governor will also probably whole heartedly endorse the stimulus bill to get those funds into state coffers to pour back into WV.  That will be his ace in the hole - "Governor Justice and I want the money for WV, so we have to abolish/reform the filibuster"

Yeah I know, I'm just sick to death of the theater of everything and I want to move on to why the fuck is Sinema self-immolating? It's not like she's going to switch parties and she's not remotely irreplaceable like Manchin is, so I really can't figure out any explanation other than she's being stupid.

[Js1 85110]

7 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Yeah I know, I'm just sick to death of the theater of everything and I want to move on to why the fuck is Sinema self-immolating? It's not like she's going to switch parties and she's not remotely irreplaceable like Manchin is, so I really can't figure out any explanation other than she's being stupid.

Sinema's transition from Green Party insurgent to conservaDem Senator is....something to behold.

[Bama Chick 28596]

Yeah I know, I'm just sick to death of the theater of everything and I want to move on to why the fuck is Sinema self-immolating? It's not like she's going to switch parties and she's not remotely irreplaceable like Manchin is, so I really can't figure out any explanation other than she's being stupid.

After her repeated stunts with hair color and wigs and her dumb “Dangerous Creature” t-shirt, I’ve decided she’s addicted to attention and “breaking the internet”.

[Bama Chick 28596]

Tapatalk and Kyrsten Sinema suck

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

 

[David Dennison 18659]

1 hour ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

 

WV and AZ about to get paid.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

 

[bad_teammate 13132]

Don't end the filibuster. Just make it a talking filibuster with a normal vote after the grandstander collapses.

[Satchel 6908]

End the filibuster.

[Pescado_Rojo 19331]

Independent redistricting would be so huge. Imagine if every district was drawn to be within 2-3% of 50/50 and congress critters actually had to appeal to the middle and not the nutbars. That and ending the Hastert rule would help so much. 

[Neonmoon 38127]

20 minutes ago, Pescado_Rojo said:

Independent redistricting would be so huge. Imagine if every district was drawn to be within 2-3% of 50/50 and congress critters actually had to appeal to the middle and not the nutbars. That and ending the Hastert rule would help so much. 

Independent redistricting would be a game changer. They should end the filibuster just to pass that 

[David Dennison 18659]

5 hours ago, Satchel said:

End the filibuster.

They can't.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

Candidate Kamala Harris sounded dope af back in 2019

 

[Satchel 6908]

50 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

They can't.

It may take more Republican intransigence, but it will happen. Still trying to figure out what happened to the once proud Net Roots Nation progressive, Senator Sinema.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

 

[Ghost of LL 15492]

It is this simple for Democrats: end the filibuster or die.

If they don't end the filibuster and pass HR1, then it is clear that the Republicans are going to enact enough voter suppression and put in place enough gerrymanders that it'll be impossible for the Democrats ever to gain a majority in either house.

This is no longer a fucking question.  It has to go.

[TheStoicPaisano 9904]

These Republican Kochsuckers are gonna make the clerks read HR1 into the record, aren’t they?

They’re in-progress on the COVID Bill reading and it’s gonna go 12-15 hours.

Fuuuuuuuuuck Ron Johnson and the 12 R seconds who supported this move.

[Sbbruin 21737]

14 minutes ago, TheStoicPaisano said:

These Republican Kochsuckers are gonna make the clerks read HR1 into the record, aren’t they?

They’re in-progress on the COVID Bill reading and it’s gonna go 12-15 hours.

Fuuuuuuuuuck Ron Johnson and the 12 R seconds who supported this move.

Unreal.  Doooooshes.

[David Dennison 18659]

4 hours ago, Ghost of LL said:

It is this simple for Democrats: end the filibuster or die.

If they don't end the filibuster and pass HR1, then it is clear that the Republicans are going to enact enough voter suppression and put in place enough gerrymanders that it'll be impossible for the Democrats ever to gain a majority in either house.

This is no longer a fucking question.  It has to go.

This is true.

Now Democrats have to decide what to give the no votes. There are probably more than two at the moment.

[Satchel 6908]

Dems have to win more senate seats in ‘22 because putting more pressure on Manchin could prove costly. It would take little prodding for him to switch parties and make Mumbles majority leader again. It’s happened before with disastrous consequences for the GOP:

 

On the morning of May 15, Jeffords met in his private Capitol office with Daschle and Reid. The serious negotiations about switching had begun.

A week later, the decision was all but made. Jeffords met with the president and the vice president on May 22, but the most critical meeting that day was with Jeffords’ son, Leonard, who opposed the switch but agreed to back his father.

Jeffords worked into the night on his statement, and met twice the next day with his moderate Republican colleagues in what he terms the most emotional meetings of his life. He flew to Vermont that night.

On May 24, at 9:30 a.m., he walked into a crowded press conference. “In order to best represent my state of Vermont, my own conscience and principles that I have stood for my whole life, I will leave the Republican Party and become an independent,” he said.

On Tuesday, June 5, the switch became official.

The next day the Democrats took control of the Senate, and at 12:10 p.m. Jeffords entered the Senate chamber to cast his first vote as an independent. A minute later he sat at his desk, which had been moved from the Republican side of the chamber to the Democratic side.

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2001-jun-24-mn-14081-story.html

 

 

[elfenix 34171]

5 hours ago, Ghost of LL said:

It is this simple for Democrats: end the filibuster or die.

If they don't end the filibuster and pass HR1, then it is clear that the Republicans are going to enact enough voter suppression and put in place enough gerrymanders that it'll be impossible for the Democrats ever to gain a majority in either house.

This is no longer a fucking question.  It has to go.

i pointed out at least once before that the filibuster only really blocks democrat's priorities, not republicans'.  tax cuts?  gutting social spending?  those can both be done by reconciliation, which are exempt from the filibuster.  packing the courts with fedsoc dark money funded kochsuckers so that they can rule on cases brought by fedsoc dark money funded plaintiffs and read briefs by fedsoc dark money funded amicii [sen. whitehouse has me really negative on the judiciary]?  filibuster doesn't apply to the judiciary.  gutting regulations to help the extraction industry and poison average americans?  can be done on presidential authority alone.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

 

[Biff Tannen 45497]

On 3/4/2021 at 6:01 PM, Ghost of LL said:

It is this simple for Democrats: end the filibuster or die.

If they don't end the filibuster and pass HR1, then it is clear that the Republicans are going to enact enough voter suppression and put in place enough gerrymanders that it'll be impossible for the Democrats ever to gain a majority in either house.

This is no longer a fucking question.  It has to go.

This.  If they don't, we are all fucked for decades at least.

[David Dennison 18659]

26 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

 

There will be thorough debate. That's great for Democrats.

[Biff Tannen 45497]

"We must change our tactics or lose the game." - Abraham Lincoln, 1862

[DanRydell 799]

i pointed out at least once before that the filibuster only really blocks democrat's priorities, not republicans'.  tax cuts?  gutting social spending?  those can both be done by reconciliation, which are exempt from the filibuster.  packing the courts with fedsoc dark money funded kochsuckers so that they can rule on cases brought by fedsoc dark money funded plaintiffs and read briefs by fedsoc dark money funded amicii [sen. whitehouse has me really negative on the judiciary]?  filibuster doesn't apply to the judiciary.  gutting regulations to help the extraction industry and poison average americans?  can be done on presidential authority alone.

And the second Republicans have power again in the future and can’t get 60 votes for cloture on something else they want to pass, you can be damn sure there will be an exception to the filibuster created for that as well.

[Js1 85110]

 

[Biff Tannen 45497]

1 minute ago, Js1 said:

 

Yay.  Manchin needs to quit being such a pussy and realize that he's losing the fucking game.

[David Dennison 18659]

They have to make it to where a Senator cannot yield their time or take a break. Once they tap out, that's it. Debate cannot go on forever.

[Neonmoon 38127]

Democrats

We want the power!

(power given)

Lets see how we can fuck this up and not do shit 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

Sounds like Manchin might be flexible to merely persevering the rhetorical filibuster. I’m cool with that. They can pull Strom Thurmonds if they want.  Ted Cruz can read Cat in the Hat. 

[Longhorn_Fan68 33843]

55 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Sounds like Manchin might be flexible to merely persevering the rhetorical filibuster. I’m cool with that. They can pull Strom Thurmonds if they want.  Ted Cruz can read If I Ran the Zoo. 

FIFY

[Js1 85110]

1 hour ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Sounds like Manchin might be flexible to merely persevering the rhetorical filibuster. I’m cool with that. They can pull Strom Thurmonds if they want.  Ted Cruz can read Cat in the Hat. 

It’s a start for Manchin. Nudge him along slowly 

[Longhorn_Fan68 33843]

imho I think the Dems need to steal a page from the GOP playbook and start fear mongering. For far too long the R's have been successful drumming up fear for things that *could* happen. The messaging needs to clear and concise. I'm a little too Sunday high to write the tagline myself, but the gist needs to be that if the filibuster is not abolished (or at the very least neutered) then the GOP will forever rule from the minority and this country will fail in short order (assuming that's not already inevitable). Someone else can write the message, but it needs to be scary.

[Bruh Man 3160]

The Godfather has spoken. 
 

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

This motherfucker. 

 

[Biff Tannen 45497]

2 hours ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

imho I think the Dems need to steal a page from the GOP playbook and start fear mongering. For far too long the R's have been successful drumming up fear for things that *could* happen. The messaging needs to clear and concise. I'm a little too Sunday high to write the tagline myself, but the gist needs to be that if the filibuster is not abolished (or at the very least neutered) then the GOP will forever rule from the minority and this country will fail in short order (assuming that's not already inevitable). Someone else can write the message, but it needs to be scary.

It’s not a “could” happen scenario though. It’s guaranteed. 

[Longhorn_Fan68 33843]

4 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

It’s not a “could” happen scenario though. It’s guaranteed. 

right, which is why I'm not writing the ad campaign

[Ghost of LL 15492]

23 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

This motherfucker. 

 

I think we're talking semantics here.  Requiring the speaking filibuster arguably wouldn't "gut" it.

Plus, the Dems need a basis to end the filibuster.  It has to be in the context of something.  They're setting up the "we didn't want to do it, but the Republicans were being unreasonable and left us no other choice" argument.

I tend to think that this is all theater, and that there's going to be filibuster reform in conjunction with passing HR1.