Abolish the filibuster!

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19279]

On 3/12/2021 at 3:59 PM, DonkeyCigars said:

I guess not, because I feel like more than aligning to a team of politics, I find myself appreciating individual posters. Some rad awesome posters on here: Bad_teammate, Mole, ndawg, and longhornmatt, RDCanecutter, Wildcat, EuroHorn, etc. from who, if we could collectively stop half-listening, misreading posts, and spouting off like we are SME's, we might actually learn something. These guys are all over the map on political ideology. I wonder what they have in common? Is it just they write well, maybe?

Guys like Briskettexan and Sydney and JS1 and Bamagirl and myself, we are just noise. Hens clucking and getting in the way of the rational minds discussing the larger problems of the day. We should aim to grow beyond that, I think. 

The fact that you think bad_teammate is a "rad awesome poster" tells me a lot about you.  

[washparkhorn 9967]

3 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

The fact that you think bad_teammate is a "rad awesome poster" tells me a lot about you.  

Avatar checks out. 

[DonkeyCigars 143]

3 hours ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

The fact that you think bad_teammate is a "rad awesome poster" tells me a lot about you.  

There are posters from all walks of life, many different schools of thought and who embody many different value systems and world-views who are mostly respectful, thoughtful, intelligent, and interesting. They lead with EQ because they have a high IQ. They are the catalysts in conversations and discussions because they are dynamic communicators and I enjoy their participation and think we as a community are better for hearing them discuss issues; even the ones that vehemently disagree with my thoughts, words and who I choose to be.

Boring and mediocre minds with a limited capability to write well or with a very narrow expertise (or both), and with inflated opinions of their stature and self, like well, I won't name anymore names, you get the point-- these people who latch on to a few crutch words and turns-of-phrase (mostly dated online insults which were novel and rich once upon a time but are now worn thin)-- I feel good about being on the receiving end of those insults because you people are lazy and sloppy.

[Queen Bitch 1692]

 

[Js1 86953]

Quote

“Nobody serving in this chamber can even begin to imagine what a completely scorched earth Senate would look like.”

Something like denying a sitting POTUS a SCOTUS judge 9 months before an election, winning a trifecta and nuking the filibuster to seat SCOTUS justices and then ramming through a judge a couple weeks before midterms? 

I can't even begin to imagine!

[Orale 1176]

17 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Something like denying a sitting POTUS a SCOTUS judge 9 months before an election, winning a trifecta and nuking the filibuster to seat SCOTUS justices and then ramming through a judge a couple weeks before midterms? 

I can't even begin to imagine!

Exactly. The status quo. I don't see how the evil turtle's rhetoric helps him convince the moderate democrats when he's already done all he's threatened while there's been a filibuster.

[The Royal We 3090]

He skeered.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

FUCK YOU MITCH! EAT SHIT!

 

[Horn Dog 10156]

30 minutes ago, Queen Bitch said:

 

IS this supposed to be a threat?   You know what Mitch?   Do it!  Go ahead.  Repeal Obama care and enact the "GOP health care plan".  Give a 3 trillion dollar tax cut to millionaires and absolutely fuck the working class in the ass.   Eliminate all consumer protections and kick poor people on the street and let them die.  Do it Mitch!   Lets stop pretending that the GOP has any intention of doing anything other than obstructing the Dems.  That's the entire platform on "conservative policies"  that they actually want to pass.  If they wanted to do that they would of when they controlled all the presidency, senate and house.  But yea, Mitch go scorched earth and completely fuck over your base!  I absolutely would welcome that type of legislative honesty from the GOP.

[Js1 86953]

*would have

And that's basically what they did for 2 full years of the Trump presidency.  My response to Mitch:

Nuke it or reform it, pass HR1, pass DC statehood, win Wisconsin, PA and NC next year and add 5 new Dem senators and see what happens then. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

Heaven forbid, without the filibuster, the only veto against Senate legislation would be the House, Presidential veto, or the courts.  THE HORROR 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

1 hour ago, Queen Bitch said:

 

 

Mitch’s strategy 

[horn4life 3830]

I honestly hate the idea of abolishing the filibuster.  Simply because Dems overreach to try and get things done, Pubs overreach for ONLY political power, never for the good of the nation.  McConnell refuses to approve judges with corrupt intent.  Dems allow for exception to finally get some of the blocked judges through.  McConnell changes the rules blocks a supreme for Obama and does the opposite to steal a seat for the GOP.

The GOP is a party that demographically is about to become a dinosaur. So honestly.  IF the Dems scrapped the filibuster, it is probably in a position where there is a decent chance the GOP does not regain control of the Senate anytime soon.  That is why you see so many desperation voter suppression bills locally.  I personally would simply change the rules of the filibuster.  As long as you can talk and hold the floor you can filibuster.  EXACTLY AS INITIALLY INTENDED!!!!

But I am beginning to believe if the Dems broke hard with tradition and made voting extremely easy for all?  The GOP is fucking toast.  SO "scorched earth" from a minority is not really a huge threat.   The good news for Mitch is that a block of politicians without a single principle among them, nearly always votes as a unified block. Simply taking orders from the top down.  The Dems are a much more independent bunch, and the fuckers have some principles... which makes them weaker from a political standpoint. 

[Js1 86953]

I still think you aren't getting Manchin to agree to nuke it.  But it will be reformed, likely by August recess.  

By all accounts, infrastructure is going to be FY2022 reconciliation bill.  Collins laughed off tax hikes to pay for it, so it'll have to end up in reconciliation because Democrats are fiscally responsible who insist on PAYGO for their bills, and they aren't going to allow the GOP to "compromise" to get them to cut services instead to find the money.

The "compromise caucus" led by Collins, including 10 Dems and 10 Republicans, which includes Machin and Romney, are deciding how they want to go about immigration and/or minimum wage.   Because we will need 10 votes.

[Biff Tannen 46063]

So having learned a bit more about this recently, I don't see the harm in making these dipshits actually talk, as opposed to eliminating it altogether.  If nothing else, it's an easy solution to get shit done and also assuage fears of Rs being in power and doing whatever they want (not that they don't pretty much do that anyway).  My only question is how long could a talking filibuster reasonably go on?

Full disclosure: I had no idea the talking filibuster was gone.  

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

2 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

My only question is how long could a talking filibuster reasonably go on?

As long as they can physically hold the floor I believe, so in theory, very long time. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

 

[Horn Dog 10156]

For those of use that are ignorant of "talking filibuster" rules.   What is stopping a group of say 24 senators from deciding to get together and conduct a "rolling" talking filibuster?    For instance, one senator filibusters for an hour, then another begins his own filibuster for an hour, and so on so that these 24 senators perform a perpetual filibuster but only talk for 1 hour  per day?   In other words, if a talking filibuster immediately over once the first senator stops talking, what is stopping another senator from immediately initiating his own, new filibuster? 

[406W30th 1111]

19 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

So having learned a bit more about this recently, I don't see the harm in making these dipshits actually talk, as opposed to eliminating it altogether.  If nothing else, it's an easy solution to get shit done and also assuage fears of Rs being in power and doing whatever they want (not that they don't pretty much do that anyway).  My only question is how long could a talking filibuster reasonably go on?

Full disclosure: I had no idea the talking filibuster was gone.  

Strom Thurmond filibustered the Civil Rights Act for 24 hours and 18 minutes, in an impressively racist act and display of stamina.

But there can be consecutive talking filibusters, correct? So if every GQP member pulled a Strom and filibustered for 24 hours, we could be talking about 60+ days (including weekends and recesses)?

 

 

[Js1 86953]

25 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

So having learned a bit more about this recently, I don't see the harm in making these dipshits actually talk, as opposed to eliminating it altogether.  If nothing else, it's an easy solution to get shit done and also assuage fears of Rs being in power and doing whatever they want (not that they don't pretty much do that anyway).  My only question is how long could a talking filibuster reasonably go on?

Full disclosure: I had no idea the talking filibuster was gone.  

It needs to be paired with forcing the minority to keep 41 votes on the floor or the majority will call to end the filibuster.  Basically it takes 41 minority votes to sustain it, rather than 60 to overrule it. 

[Biff Tannen 46063]

1 hour ago, 406W30th said:

Strom Thurmond filibustered the Civil Rights Act for 24 hours and 18 minutes, in an impressively racist act and display of stamina.

But there can be consecutive talking filibusters, correct? So if every GQP member pulled a Strom and filibustered for 24 hours, we could be talking about 60+ days (including weekends and recesses)?

 

 

a) I don't think they could keep that up and b) fine, let them do it on hugely popular legislation that will make them look like the anti-American fuckheads they are

 

1 hour ago, Js1 said:

It needs to be paired with forcing the minority to keep 41 votes on the floor or the majority will call to end the filibuster.  Basically it takes 41 minority votes to sustain it, rather than 60 to overrule it. 

Yes, this too.  I'm not sure how we even let the filibuster get to this shell of itself.  I can see how it is useful in its original form in letting the minority have "a voice", but why did we just let it go by the wayside?

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

Oh my

[Js1 86953]

Durban, Manchin and Biden wouldn’t all say this unless the votes are there. 

[Bama Chick 28596]

Alright, it’s down to the “Dangerous Creature” with her school girl cosplay and colored wigs.

I have a feeling I’m going to despise her before this gets done.

[Satchel 6982]

Mitch has a sense that it’s about to be his time in the barrel.

 

[Neonmoon 38130]

Dear Mitch, 

Do it. Your threat is to take away American freedoms and think that won’t backfire in your stupid fat face? Do it you dumb fuck. Most Americans don’t really follow politics because nothing really changes, corporations rule both parties, but people get TV and don’t give a fuck, but once you start doing open horrible shit like Trump did, people show up and vote. A lot of people. Your stupid party full of racist cucks are in the minority. And your solution is to poke the bear? The only reasons your stupid ass party has so much control is because you used to not say the bad parts out loud. But now you threaten abortion rights, gay rights, voting rights, etc. Take your threat and get fucked. 

[wildcat09 29561]

15 hours ago, horn4life said:

I honestly hate the idea of abolishing the filibuster.  Simply because Dems overreach to try and get things done, Pubs overreach for ONLY political power, never for the good of the nation.  McConnell refuses to approve judges with corrupt intent.  Dems allow for exception to finally get some of the blocked judges through.  McConnell changes the rules blocks a supreme for Obama and does the opposite to steal a seat for the GOP.

The GOP is a party that demographically is about to become a dinosaur. So honestly.  IF the Dems scrapped the filibuster, it is probably in a position where there is a decent chance the GOP does not regain control of the Senate anytime soon.  That is why you see so many desperation voter suppression bills locally.  I personally would simply change the rules of the filibuster.  As long as you can talk and hold the floor you can filibuster.  EXACTLY AS INITIALLY INTENDED!!!!

But I am beginning to believe if the Dems broke hard with tradition and made voting extremely easy for all?  The GOP is fucking toast.  SO "scorched earth" from a minority is not really a huge threat.   The good news for Mitch is that a block of politicians without a single principle among them, nearly always votes as a unified block. Simply taking orders from the top down.  The Dems are a much more independent bunch, and the fuckers have some principles... which makes them weaker from a political standpoint. 

The filibuster wasn’t intended. It was made completely by accident and nobody realized its potential for decades after.

[henrygandorf 29223]

7 hours ago, Satchel said:

Mitch has a sense that it’s about to be his time in the barrel.

 

this seems like sloppy political strategy from a guy who typically knows what he’s doing. what’s he up to?

pretty clear the manchin pivot has them scrambling. 

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19279]

There are posters from all walks of life, many different schools of thought and who embody many different value systems and world-views who are mostly respectful, thoughtful, intelligent, and interesting. They lead with EQ because they have a high IQ. They are the catalysts in conversations and discussions because they are dynamic communicators and I enjoy their participation and think we as a community are better for hearing them discuss issues; even the ones that vehemently disagree with my thoughts, words and who I choose to be.
Boring and mediocre minds with a limited capability to write well or with a very narrow expertise (or both), and with inflated opinions of their stature and self, like well, I won't name anymore names, you get the point-- these people who latch on to a few crutch words and turns-of-phrase (mostly dated online insults which were novel and rich once upon a time but are now worn thin)-- I feel good about being on the receiving end of those insults because you people are lazy and sloppy.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

FOREVER

[henrygandorf 29223]

26 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

i enjoy the new guy doing his research and making his lists. lulz. 

[Biff Tannen 46063]

4 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

FOREVER

I'm kind of astonished the SOCIALIZM!!! scare tactic still works so well.

[tchookem 3966]

I'm kind of astonished the SOCIALIZM!!! scare tactic still works so well.

It works because the people scared by socialism don't actually know what I socialism is.

[Js1 86953]

Holy shit what a good argument. 

 

[Biff Tannen 46063]

1 hour ago, Js1 said:

Holy shit what a good argument. 

 

McConnell retort:

[RPM 26565]

I am 100% for a talking fillibuster. This 60 vote crap they came up with needs to go. 

[Biff Tannen 46063]

1 hour ago, RPM said:

I am 100% for a talking fillibuster. This 60 vote crap they came up with needs to go. 

Seriously.  When did it go away anyway?  If you don't have it and you can just say "I filibuster" then there is no fucking point in having a majority and minority.

[Js1 86953]

13 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

Seriously.  When did it go away anyway?  If you don't have it and you can just say "I filibuster" then there is no fucking point in having a majority and minority.

1975 or so. 

[GopherRock 1773]

Talking filibuster + 40 present and voting to continue said filibuster. Git 'ur done.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

The filibuster is dumb, period. Talking or not talking.  The minority is well protected by the structure of the Senate. It is naturally gerrymandered.
 

The bottom line here isn’t about debate time or hearing the minority’s opinion on the Senate floor, it’s about the supermajority threshold to get legislation advanced through the Senate, which is objectively stupid, not in the constitution, and inherently undemocratic. 
 

Moreover, jettisoning the filibuster does not mean eliminating debate or the speaking opportunities of the minority.  They can make new rules to accommodate.  The talking vs non-talking filibuster is semantics. If McConnell wants to obstruct, he will need to win more elections. Elections have consequences, GFY Mitch  /rant.

Edited March 17, 2021 by Hugo Stiglitz

[Biff Tannen 46063]

3 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

The filibuster is dumb, period. Talking or not talking.  The minority is well protected by the structure of the Senate. It is naturally gerrymandered.
 

The bottom line here isn’t about debate time or hearing the minority’s opinion on the Senate floor, it’s about the supermajority threshold to get legislation advanced through the Senate, which is objectively stupid, not in the constitution, and inherently undemocratic. 
 

Moreover, jettisoning the filibuster does not mean eliminating debate or the speaking opportunities of the minority.  They can make new rules to accommodate.  The talking vs non-talking filibuster is semantics. If McConnell wants to obstruct, he will need to win more elections. Elections have consequences, GFY Mitch  /rant.

[David Dennison 19441]

What is stopping Chuck Schumer from simply disregarding the rules?

[Biff Tannen 46063]

1 hour ago, David Dennison said:

What is stopping Chuck Schumer from simply disregarding the rules?

Good question.  That's what Mitch would do.

[David Dennison 19441]

Bring a bill to the floor. Cut off debate. Vote.

What's the problem?

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

5 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

What's the problem?

Democrats 

[Js1 86953]

I just want to hear Ted start to object and someone go SHUT THE FUCK UP TED

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

[David Dennison 19441]

6 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Democrats 

Tough break.

Maybe the party should start supporting primary challengers.

Just a thought.

[Biff Tannen 46063]

1 hour ago, Js1 said:

I just want to hear Ted start to object and someone go SHUT THE FUCK UP TED

[Fudge Nuggets 19407]

WHY NOT DONE??!!?!!!