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Hey PK -- What would you say you do here?

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RomaVicta

RomaVicta 29905

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3 hours ago, Atticus said:

This is not a great defense. This is a rag tag bunch of spares, but they played very well until the 4th quarter when they were basically on the field the entire time.

I'm not wanting to slam the team or coaches too hard. In fact, I think Sark will be good for us.

You don't have to be a great defense to battle it out until the end. The yards coming to opponents as easily as they do is the tell to me. It's not like OSU is a team of Titans who wore us out due to superior athletes. 

On both sides of the ball we were miserable in the fourth quarter. That's the quarter when you either take the game or have it taken. Do you feel that we appearted to want it as much as OU and OSU in the fourth?

It's aggy to say a team plays with no emotion etc. We have played with emotion to take nice leads this year. Maybe it's the hangover from Herman and maybe even Strong who would get ahead and then just hope to hang on. Maybe that mindset and memory is ingrained in the team.

I don't know. I'm slow to criticize because I'm a football idiot. But something is very wrong.

All gas no brakes is what we need to be about. I wonder if Sark adopted that slogan because he recognized how our coaches largely directed our team to let up and hang on.

I don't think exhaustion does (or should) be an explanation by the collapse of the defense in the fourth quarter.

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dcar00

dcar00 14181

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2 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

I'm not wanting to slam the team or coaches too hard. In fact, I think Sark will be good for us.

You don't have to be a great defense to battle it out until the end. The yards coming to opponents as easily as they do is the tell to me. It's not like OSU is a team of Titans who wore us out due to superior athletes. 

On both sides of the ball we were miserable in the fourth quarter. That's the quarter when you either take the game or have it taken. Do you feel that we appearted to want it as much as OU and OSU in the fourth?

It's aggy to say a team plays with no emotion etc. We have played with emotion to take nice leads this year. Maybe it's the hangover from Herman and maybe even Strong who would get ahead and then just hope to hang on. Maybe that mindset and memory is ingrained in the team.

I don't know. I'm slow to criticize because I'm a football idiot. But something is very wrong.

All gas no brakes is what we need to be about. I wonder if Sark adopted that slogan because he recognized how our coaches largely directed our team to let up and hang on.

I don't think exhaustion does (or should) be an explanation by the collapse of the defense in the fourth quarter.

I think you are overthinking this.  you just run your shit at Bama and if it doesn't click in the first half, it will in the second.

7 win Steve isn't a thing because he's a good head coach.  see ya in 4 years.

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squeegeedegg

squeegeedegg 723

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5 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

I'm not wanting to slam the team or coaches too hard. In fact, I think Sark will be good for us.

You don't have to be a great defense to battle it out until the end. The yards coming to opponents as easily as they do is the tell to me. It's not like OSU is a team of Titans who wore us out due to superior athletes. 

On both sides of the ball we were miserable in the fourth quarter. That's the quarter when you either take the game or have it taken. Do you feel that we appearted to want it as much as OU and OSU in the fourth?

It's aggy to say a team plays with no emotion etc. We have played with emotion to take nice leads this year. Maybe it's the hangover from Herman and maybe even Strong who would get ahead and then just hope to hang on. Maybe that mindset and memory is ingrained in the team.

I don't know. I'm slow to criticize because I'm a football idiot. But something is very wrong.

All gas no brakes is what we need to be about. I wonder if Sark adopted that slogan because he recognized how our coaches largely directed our team to let up and hang on.

I don't think exhaustion does (or should) be an explanation by the collapse of the defense in the fourth quarter.

I believe there are zero guys on the team now that remember Strong or any of his assistants.  The roster, and all that comes with them, with the exception of the summer portal arrivals, are guys Herman recruited and coached.  If you want to get into the weeds of team psychology or something, maybe there's something to be said about PK being up in the booth and to my knowledge, with Sark and Flood having their hands full on offense and generally being offensive minded, there's no strong sideline presence for the defense to feed off of.  This would be less of a problem if we had senior guys who were firm stalwarts and had energy and leadership in spades, but we do not.  I would like to see Sark, Flood, add another guy on offense to help them give proper attention to the distinct roles a head coach, offensive coordinator, and line coach, should have.  Also would like some sideline accountability for the defensive coaching side until we can turn the roster over with recruiting and the portal.

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Knoxtnhorn

Knoxtnhorn 5974

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1 hour ago, alphahorn said:

Defense did play well enough to win today.  Yet, I'm starting to doubt Jeff Choate as the best option for LB coach. To continue to put Brock on the field is absurd.  He's continually the worse player on the field and offenses take advantage of him every game.  Rewatch the game and focus on 47, it's horrific

Yep. There was a play in the first qtr where Brock was in line between the right guard and right tackle.  RB goes up the middle.  Brock runs parallel to line to make the tackle.  The center stuck out one hand and completely knocked Brock out of the play.

I don't get it.  He's sure as hell not out there for speed, SOOOO if he can't beat a one-handed, forearm block, what the hell is his purpose?

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Atticus

Atticus 3973

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12 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

I'm not wanting to slam the team or coaches too hard. In fact, I think Sark will be good for us.

You don't have to be a great defense to battle it out until the end. The yards coming to opponents as easily as they do is the tell to me. It's not like OSU is a team of Titans who wore us out due to superior athletes. 

On both sides of the ball we were miserable in the fourth quarter. That's the quarter when you either take the game or have it taken. Do you feel that we appearted to want it as much as OU and OSU in the fourth?

It's aggy to say a team plays with no emotion etc. We have played with emotion to take nice leads this year. Maybe it's the hangover from Herman and maybe even Strong who would get ahead and then just hope to hang on. Maybe that mindset and memory is ingrained in the team.

I don't know. I'm slow to criticize because I'm a football idiot. But something is very wrong.

All gas no brakes is what we need to be about. I wonder if Sark adopted that slogan because he recognized how our coaches largely directed our team to let up and hang on.

I don't think exhaustion does (or should) be an explanation by the collapse of the defense in the fourth quarter.

Exhaustion and multiple cracks of the bat by the OkSt offense. OkSt is also a very experienced team with coaches who have been there for a long time. They know and have been recruited for their system. 

The ceiling with Sark and PK is very high if it all comes together. We gotta be patient because we have a good staff, we just gotta give them a chance to turn over the roster. 

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LurkingHorn

LurkingHorn 1066

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I said it last week and I’ll say it again: PK is not perfect but I’m still not sure what he’s supposed to do when the offense gets 1 damn yard the entire 4th quarter and he has holes at every level of the defense.
 

The defense played well enough to win today. At this point, that’s all we can grade them on. The offense, specifically the line, is absolutely killing this team. It’s not even that they don’t score, it’s that they leave zero fucking time to adjust to anything because they run their ass back to the sideline after one minute of possession. 

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dcar00

dcar00 14181

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30 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

That's just dumb. There's no way to know how Sark will work out right now. I guess you're just getting a reservation on the I-told-you-so train. What a miserable way to follow college sports.

And nobody cares if your guess is correct. It's just a fucking guess.

Apparently you cared. Yeah not miserable. Just stating what is going to happen. Was hoping he might be the guy. Hes not but he will be here 4 years because CDC hired him

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Atticus

Atticus 3973

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1 hour ago, Spider2YBanana said:

Jeff Choate is a chode. Mike Stoops would have been a better hire and I hate myself for even admitting that. Choate is a moron from the games we've seen. If he thinks Brockermeyer is the best we have to start, then that dipshit needs to be in the unemployment line asap

losing sucks man, but come on. Stoops?

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FunkSoulBrother

FunkSoulBrother 931

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1 hour ago, Knoxtnhorn said:

Yep. There was a play in the first qtr where Brock was in line between the right guard and right tackle.  RB goes up the middle.  Brock runs parallel to line to make the tackle.  The center stuck out one hand and completely knocked Brock out of the play.

I don't get it.  He's sure as hell not out there for speed, SOOOO if he can't beat a one-handed, forearm block, what the hell is his purpose?

To gets his brothers in through the portal!

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Slacks

Slacks 6819

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1 hour ago, LurkingHorn said:

I said it last week and I’ll say it again: PK is not perfect but I’m still not sure what he’s supposed to do when the offense gets 1 damn yard the entire 4th quarter and he has holes at every level of the defense.
 

The defense played well enough to win today. At this point, that’s all we can grade them on. The offense, specifically the line, is absolutely killing this team. It’s not even that they don’t score, it’s that they leave zero fucking time to adjust to anything because they run their ass back to the sideline after one minute of possession. 

Our fans do not understand complimentary football.  I tried to make this exact point several years ago, to no avail...

Having said that...  This defense is really struggling with 3rd and Orlandokowski.

 

 

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Had Enough

Had Enough 2081

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Our fans do not understand complimentary football.  I tried to make this exact point several years ago, to no avail...
Having said that...  This defense is really struggling with 3rd and Orlandokowski.
 
 

I’m going to do my best to avoid the board, we’ll see how that goes. But before I hide. Defense played pretty solidly for much of the game. It is another team loss. Seven 3 and outs or whatever it was is absolutely terrible.

No shit we’re not full of all Americans. It’s also difficult to say the talent level is poor when we build large leads and blow them in large part because we can’t convert for first downs.

As for PK, he basically renders the safeties useless. Safety over the top. One receiving threat to that side. Have your capable corners play off and the safety do nothing. This was harmful today as they hit several throws underneath late. And to cap it off, we had a safety 15 yards deep on the final 3rd down play. If they get a first, game over. You have to make them throw. Actually they weren’t going to throw. Unacceptable PK. Reminiscent of Manny Diaz versus WVU several years ago.

I’m very curious to see how the NFL treats Jamison and Jo Thompson. If they grade out higher than what we’d expect, that is an indictment on the staff because they aren’t being very aggressive.
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Atticus

Atticus 3973

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15 minutes ago, Spider2YBanana said:

I lean, Choate? He's done literally nothing with our LB's other than playing the wrong ones. He's just so bad. Does he even recruit? That's an honest question 

The loss of Juwan Mitchell hurts. Choate can coach, and they'll improve next year

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SarkAfterDark

SarkAfterDark 1688

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1 hour ago, BurntOrange&White said:

One thing that annoys me most about his defense isn’t safety position it’s corners playing 8-10 yards off in 2/3 and 4-6 situations. 

It enrages me, especially when you have 2 senior corners. But neither plays with a ton of confidence and routinely get beat deep, so I guess that is to protect against giving up the big play. 

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kevwun

kevwun 15774

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Good call on the center of the defense being so weak.  Running or passing, it's always wide open in the middle of the field.  OSU ran for first downs right up the middle on a few 3rd and longs.  That's as embarrassing as it gets and shows how little respect Gundy had for our defense.

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Jimbob

Jimbob 420

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On 10/16/2021 at 4:16 PM, Atticus said:

This is not a great defense. This is a rag tag bunch of spares, but they played very well until the 4th quarter when they were basically on the field the entire time.

So lack of skill, lack of depth, possibly poor conditioning, and being outpaced significantly on TOP. 
 

So the defensive motto is All Gassed, No Breaks.    Do we have a giant lit up sign yet?

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ClubWhatever

ClubWhatever 12128

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Posted (edited)
On 10/16/2021 at 5:16 PM, Atticus said:

This is not a great defense. This is a rag tag bunch of spares, but they played very well until the 4th quarter when they were basically on the field the entire time.

Sweat, Cook, Overshown, Thompson, and Collins are not spares.  Every one of those dudes have the physical traits to get a hard look at the next level.  It’s certainly enough talent to build a respectable defense around.   Cooks showed we have been playing the wrong other LB all year too.  We are really shitty at Safety.  Like, really bad.  On top of not covering anybody, they don’t make any plays when the ball gets to the second level.  We need to identify some backup nickels and CBs who can cross train and get more talent on the field at that position.  

Edited by ClubWhatever
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dcar00

dcar00 14181

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22 hours ago, kevwun said:

Good call on the center of the defense being so weak.  Running or passing, it's always wide open in the middle of the field.  OSU ran for first downs right up the middle on a few 3rd and longs.  That's as embarrassing as it gets and shows how little respect Gundy had for our defense.

they targeted brockermeyer big time.

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HtownHorn

HtownHorn 14676

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On 10/16/2021 at 2:49 PM, SarkAfterDark said:

I'm not sure what expectations some of you have for this defense, but they played about as well as I think they are capable of in this game until the offense left them out to dry again.

My expectations are pretty low, but giving up multiple 3rd and long on run plays and screens because you are out matched at the point of attack seems unforgivable to me. And that was before the offense was shitting the bed.

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TheFlyingBoat

TheFlyingBoat 906

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Maybe Kwiatkowski's scheme is a bad fit here and we should go with a true 4 down use DL to create plays type defense instead of using them to open up plays for the LB to clean up given how shitty our LBs are, but all of y'all arguing to fire Choate are fucking loony. Dude is an elite coach. Given the fact he got tossed Overshown and a pile of scraps and put out what he did is impressive. The room was so bad a walk-on was starting. Ford looks much improved and hopefully once Overshown is back, Ford will become the 2nd starting ILB with Overshown. Choate was good enough to take a bunch of JAGs at Montana State that went 4-7 his first year into the 4th best team in FCS after 4 years. Honestly with this defense I think we need to simply take time to let them develop and get people adjusted to the scheme. Only reason to get rid of Kwiat is if you want to change scheme. The DB room needs a reshuffle though. That shit is absolutely putrid no ifs, ands, or buts about it. That isn't a scheme issue. It isn't a talent issue. That's a why the fuck aren't players being coached right issue.

Edited by TheFlyingBoat
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Had Enough

Had Enough 2081

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My expectations are pretty low, but giving up multiple 3rd and long on run plays and screens because you are out matched at the point of attack seems unforgivable to me. And that was before the offense was shitting the bed.

OSU was 6-18 on 3rd downs. There was a screen that converted.

I’m not certain what you mean about “out matched” on a screen, but screens are always about fooling the defense. If you mean they had more bodies, then yeah. If you’re saying it’s talent issue, that’s flat out wrong.

Another conversion was a run. Cook was in the slot and bailed for the deep middle. If we’re playing straight up, it’s likely a stop. Somebody else could have made the play but their call versus our call was the biggest factor.
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LTtxfan

LTtxfan 49167

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5 hours ago, TheFlyingBoat said:

The DB room needs a reshuffle though. That shit is absolutely putrid no ifs, ands, or buts about it. That isn't a scheme issue. It isn't a talent issue. That's a why the fuck aren't players being coached right issue.

It's a we don't have any safeties that can cover or tackle issue...

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Codaxx

Codaxx 5731

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1 minute ago, LTtxfan said:

It's a we don't have any safeties that can cover or tackle issue...

Safety might be the biggest issue on the defense. It just terrible. It is to the point that I would be in favor of seeing the most consistent defender, Cook, moved to Safety. 

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Had Enough

Had Enough 2081

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Maybe Kwiatkowski's scheme is a bad fit here and we should go with a true 4 down use DL to create plays type defense instead of using them to open up plays for the LB to clean up given how shitty our LBs are, but all of y'all arguing to fire Choate are fucking loony. Dude is an elite coach. Given the fact he got tossed Overshown and a pile of scraps and put out what he did is impressive. The room was so bad a walk-on was starting. Ford looks much improved and hopefully once Overshown is back, Ford will become the 2nd starting ILB with Overshown. Choate was good enough to take a bunch of JAGs at Montana State that went 4-7 his first year into the 4th best team in FCS after 4 years. Honestly with this defense I think we need to simply take time to let them develop and get people adjusted to the scheme. Only reason to get rid of Kwiat is if you want to change scheme. The DB room needs a reshuffle though. That shit is absolutely putrid no ifs, ands, or buts about it. That isn't a scheme issue. It isn't a talent issue. That's a why the fuck aren't players being coached right issue.

Ford played pretty well. The LBers have played reasonably well this season, but we can continue the narrative that they’re shitty. A bit inconsistent sure. Lacking some physicality sure. Shitty is not an apt descriptor. Depth has been limited, but it could be coming on. I’m still not sure we have any Dline that require a double team which is a problem for running the light box.

I see nothing out of Choate to say he’s doing a sorry job. I’d agree on the scheme too. It’ll take time.

The issue with this defense is the deep safety play. The scheme asks too little of them at times. Then they’re too aggressive when PK gets them free in the backfield. They’re not aggressive enough otherwise. The top 3 guys had 5 tackles versus OSU. Someone else mentioned it but Cook should drop back to safety. Maybe not full time, but he shouldn’t come off the field at all. No idea why our corners play off when the safeties are deep.
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Had Enough

Had Enough 2081

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Kinda weird, I can't remember the last time a safety made a big play...
Maybe a blitz in the blOU game ?? 

Foster pick versus OU. It was kinda right to him but still. He had a QB pressure this weekend but think it still resulted in a completion. It was neither a great play or a failure on his part. He had a late blitz vs OSU. Unblocked at the point of attack. Just ran by the RB. 3 yard loss turned in to a 30 yard gain. A huge play in every regard.

Jerrin had a QB pressure, but left his feet which likely cost us a sack. That was OU. I think his play versus OU got Schooler on the field more.

I actually believe they have the ability to get it done. No idea why there isn’t more production. Don’t need hero’es. Just do your job. A 20 plus yard run with two high safeties should be very rare. These guys need to clean up runs 8-12 yards downfield. A good example was that game winning OU TD. That can’t and shouldn’t have happened.
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Codaxx

Codaxx 5731

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1 minute ago, Had Enough said:


Foster pick versus OU. It was kinda right to him but still. He had a QB pressure this weekend but think it still resulted in a completion. It was neither a great play or a failure on his part. He had a late blitz vs OSU. Unblocked at the point of attack. Just ran by the RB. 3 yard loss turned in to a 30 yard gain. A huge play in every regard.

Jerrin had a QB pressure, but left his feet which likely cost us a sack. That was OU. I think his play versus OU got Schooler on the field more.

I actually believe they have the ability to get it done. No idea why there isn’t more production. Don’t need hero’es. Just do your job. A 20 plus yard run with two high safeties should be very rare. These guys need to clean up runs 8-12 yards downfield. A good example was that game winning OU TD. That can’t and shouldn’t have happened.

I have lost confidence in that group. They are not involved in the run game, mostly by alignment, and they are giving up big plays. When you are 117th in allowing plays over 20 yards and 115th in yards per rush allowed, you have serious issues. Deep safeties are not preventing big plays and you are giving up easy yards in the run game, so what is the point? Either you have to make personnel changes or strategic changes.

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Atticus

Atticus 3973

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32 minutes ago, Codaxx said:

I have lost confidence in that group. They are not involved in the run game, mostly by alignment, and they are giving up big plays. When you are 117th in allowing plays over 20 yards and 115th in yards per rush allowed, you have serious issues. Deep safeties are not preventing big plays and you are giving up easy yards in the run game, so what is the point? Either you have to make personnel changes or strategic changes.

I think their presence is supposed to deter teams from trying us deep where we will likely get burned anyway. They might also have the most missed tackles as a position group, which is terrifying since they are generally the last line of defense. It's crazy that we've recruited so many safeties, and corners who are actually safeties, over the years, yet still can't get serviceable play at the position.

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