Hey PK -- What would you say you do here?

[Ricky Butler 2733]

1 minute ago, Spider2YBanana said:

A DC who can simplify things for the first year before implementing disguises and other schemes. Much like how Greg Robinson did it. He made it simple and let the athletes play. I don't have a specific guy in mind. This won't go over well with Surly, and it 99% will never happen, but I wouldn't mind Mike Elko. Good recruiter, good DC. 

It doesn't sound like complexity is our problem. Didn't Chris Ash kind of do that last year? He had a lot more talent and the results still weren't great. We just didn't care as much because we wanted the coach to get fired.

[BurntOrange&White 40050]

I keep asking this question in my head, are we sure PK was the guy or was it Lake?

[MonkeyDoughnut 10366]

5 minutes ago, Spider2YBanana said:

A DC who can simplify things for the first year before implementing disguises and other schemes. Much like how Greg Robinson did it. He made it simple and let the athletes play. Also wanted to add a guy that can adjust. I don't have a specific guy in mind. This won't go over well with Surly, and it 99% will never happen, but I wouldn't mind Mike Elko. Good recruiter, good DC. 

I would think most people/teams would love a Mike Elko... frankly IMO he's the one responsible for majority of Fishers success there.

[Funk Doctor Spock 12539]

1 minute ago, Ricky Butler said:

It doesn't sound like complexity is our problem. Didn't Chris Ash kind of do that last year? He had a lot more talent and the results still weren't great. We just didn't care as much because we wanted the coach to get fired.

Yeah, true. I just honestly don't understand how a defense can literally be this bad. His defenses at Washington were never this bad. Shit. I'd take Ash back in a heartbeat right now  

[Funk Doctor Spock 12539]

Just now, MonkeyDoughnut said:

I would think most people/teams would love a Mike Elko... frankly IMO he's the one responsible for majority of Fishers success there.

Absolutely agree 100% he is. Dude is the real deal. 

[BurntOrange&White 40050]

2 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

I keep asking this question in my head, are we sure PK was the guy or was it Lake?

To follow up with this thought I wonder if Lake is the guy who saw what was happening and was the one to let PK know to adjust to this or that? Was the change in coverages that was noted a post prior by @Burt Macklin Because he didn’t have Lake?

[Burt Macklin 19053]

9 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

To follow up with this thought I wonder if Lake is the guy who saw what was happening and was the one to let PK know to adjust to this or that? Was the change in coverages that was noted a post prior by @Burt Macklin Because he didn’t have Lake?

PK had multiple top 10 defenses at Boise under Peterson before Lake even joined the staff and he called plays for the majority of his time at UW while they were posting top 10 D’S. UW actually regressed some on D when Lake started calling plays. 
 

So I don’t see any reason to believe Lake was the mastermind behind it. If anything, Lake has shown he struggles when he moves beyond DB Coach/co-DC as his days at UW are numbered, and I tend to think it was PK hopping off Lake’s sinking ship, not the other way around, but no one knows for sure. 
 

The biggest problem with this D is box players and stopping the run, which Lake didn’t really impact. I’m sure going from Lake to Joseph doesn’t help, and maybe PK and Jospeh are struggling to coalesce. 

Edited November 2, 2021 by Burt Macklin

[Codaxx 5895]

5 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

To follow up with this thought I wonder if Lake is the guy who saw what was happening and was the one to let PK know to adjust to this or that? Was the change in coverages that was noted a post prior by @Burt Macklin Because he didn’t have Lake?

I wonder if it is more the combination. Sark liked Terry Joseph's coverage at ND, which was cover 4. PK has been a cover 3 guy. I wonder if that combination is messing with his head. 

[JBJ 3668]

He doesn't have the personnel up front or at safety to do his 4-2-5 Cover 3 effectively.

I don't think he's a bad coordinator, but he's in a situation -similar to Diaz- where he's being forced to do what he's marginally good at and not what he's really good at.

[Ricky Butler 2733]

2 minutes ago, JBJ said:

He doesn't have the personnel up front or at safety to do his 4-2-5 Cover 3 effectively.

I don't think he's a bad coordinator, but he's in a situation -similar to Diaz- where he's being forced to do what he's marginally good at and not what he's really good at.

So do you make a change at DC? Or do you hope someone like Wilcox gets fired and wants to coach DBs as co-DC? Then hit the portal like madmen?

[Codaxx 5895]

5 minutes ago, JBJ said:

He doesn't have the personnel up front or at safety to do his 4-2-5 Cover 3 effectively.

I don't think he's a bad coordinator, but he's in a situation -similar to Diaz- where he's being forced to do what he's marginally good at and not what he's really good at.

That blew Diaz up. PK is going to do the same thing to himself. I still think he should get as close to that scheme as he can, because what he is doing is not working. You are starting 2 senior corners, might as well roll the dice. If anything getting the safety down will help with the run....in theory. 

[Burt Macklin 19053]

11 minutes ago, JBJ said:

He doesn't have the personnel up front or at safety to do his 4-2-5 Cover 3 effectively.

I don't think he's a bad coordinator, but he's in a situation -similar to Diaz- where he's being forced to do what he's marginally good at and not what he's really good at.

And my concern is he won’t have the personnel next year either (besides a Massive influx of portal Talent that’s probably not possible), and he’s shown no signs of finding anything else that will work. So I can’t justify having him basically run the same D out next year. 

Edited November 2, 2021 by Burt Macklin

[Fondren & Main 6744]

1 hour ago, Ricky Butler said:

So...who do you want?

Buy the DC off of Gundy's staff.

[westexhorn 2020]

Anyone call up Greg Robinson?

[HtownHorn 14793]

2 hours ago, Ricky Butler said:

It doesn't sound like complexity is our problem. Didn't Chris Ash kind of do that last year? He had a lot more talent and the results still weren't great. We just didn't care as much because we wanted the coach to get fired.

Ash had some stinkers, especially TCU. But at least he adjusted. He almost never left the middle open again. I think the defense was improving, and I'm sure the advanced probably bare that out because of the garbage points that KSU and Colorado put up after Texas blew them out.

I also think Ash would have the current personnel playing at higher level than Kwiatkowski does, but I also think that Sarkisian hired this staff with Muschamp specifically in mind, but Will said no. After that he was kinda stuck.

Edited November 2, 2021 by HtownHorn

[Cajun 11754]

3 hours ago, Spider2YBanana said:

But for real, he needs to go. He's beyond awful. Like, I'm really, really hoping Sark grows a spine and says this isn't working out and gets someone else. It's embarrassing. 

But, but, but, he’s highly respected!!!

sometning something

[XYZ 2154]

Why did Muschamp say no?

[HtownHorn 14793]

2 hours ago, MonkeyDoughnut said:

I would think most people/teams would love a Mike Elko... frankly IMO he's the one responsible for majority of Fishers success there.

That and his DT tackle coach that is a really good recruiter. Elko's defense is good because of their DL talent, and he relies on them to cover for their poor secondary, but at least Elko's defense is fundamentally sound for the most part.

[HtownHorn 14793]

2 minutes ago, XYZ said:

Why did Muschamp say no?

Likely burned out, and wanted to spend time with his younger son, who is a sophomore in HS. This oldest son is a QB at Georgia.

[Atticus 3995]

Ash had some stinkers, especially TCU. But at least he adjusted. He almost never left the middle open again. I think the defense was improving, and I'm sure the advanced probably bare that out because of the garbage points that KSU and Colorado put up after Texas blew them out.
I also think Ash would have the current personnel playing at higher level than Kwiatkowski does, but I also think that Sarkisian hired this staff with Muschamp specifically in mind, but Will said no. After that he was kinda stuck.

You know we were gonna lose to Tech last year before Sam saved the day, right?

We gave up 56 pts to those guys in regulation and they fired their OC for being so shitty. Ash wasn’t very good either.

[HtownHorn 14793]

2 minutes ago, Atticus said:

You know we were gonna lose to Tech last year before Sam saved the day, right?

We gave up 56 pts to those guys in regulation and they fired their OC for being so shitty. Ash wasn’t very good either.

That wasn't an endorsement of Ash, just that he likely would have the current personnel playing better than Kwiatkowski, which probably means we have 1 or 2 more wins. Of course, that would mask the poor QB play. At least with a complete shit show all the warts are showing.

[FreeHorn 1307]

Either we fire PK or Fire Joseph. PK allowed Lake to control the back end and Lake taught his Cover 3 well. Joseph is a cover 4 guy and that’s the discount on the backend of the defense and the secondary. 
 

I don’t have an clue why our front 7 is bad beside just pure lack of talent. 

[Funk Doctor Spock 12539]

1 hour ago, FreeHorn said:

Either we fire PK or Fire Joseph. PK allowed Lake to control the back end and Lake taught his Cover 3 well. Joseph is a cover 4 guy and that’s the discount on the backend of the defense and the secondary. 
 

I don’t have an clue why our front 7 is bad beside just pure lack of talent. 

The thing is, we have talent. Coburn, Ojomo, Collins are a great tandem if used correctly. We've seen Coburn wreck some shit, and Ojomo, only being 12, has shown to be a force as well. PK and Sark not playing Collins earlier is their ineptitude. 

[Bobby_Batronic 1994]

13 minutes ago, Spider2YBanana said:

We've seen Coburn wreck some shit,

Coburn hasn’t wrecked much since last year other than the pantry when no one was looking. He’s weaker, and it shows. Ojomo, Sweat, Collins and maybe Murphy make for a solid DL. Beyond that we’re deep into JAGville and hear the outskirts of StillShitty City. We’re one deep on the DL, small and not particularly talented on the edges and our LB’s are athletic, but not terribly good even when our line keeps them clean. That’s why our front 7 sucks.

[Funk Doctor Spock 12539]

11 hours ago, Bobby_Batronic said:

Coburn hasn’t wrecked much since last year other than the pantry when no one was looking. He’s weaker, and it shows. Ojomo, Sweat, Collins and maybe Murphy make for a solid DL. Beyond that we’re deep into JAGville and hear the outskirts of StillShitty City. We’re one deep on the DL, small and not particularly talented on the edges and our LB’s are athletic, but not terribly good even when our line keeps them clean. That’s why our front 7 sucks.

Oh I agree, I'm saying he DID wreck shit, until Becton pussified him and PK did whatever the fuck it is he's thinking he's doing. 

 

I'm ashamed of myself for forgetting Murphy. Dude is a dawg. Man he'll be good if we get someone who knows what tf they're doing. Love that kid's motor and skills. 

Edited November 3, 2021 by Spider2YBanana

[Burt Macklin 19053]

1 minute ago, Spider2YBanana said:

Oh I agree, I'm saying he DID wreck shit, until Becton pussified him and PK did whatever the fuck it is he's thinking he's doing. 

You’re still missing his point. Coburn sucked last year too under the old staff. He was good in 2019 when he was around 330. He’s showed up around 350 the last two years and been completely ineffective. It’s not due to Becton or PK in Coburn’s case. 

[TornACL 7732]

11 hours ago, Spider2YBanana said:

The thing is, we have talent. Coburn, Ojomo, Collins are a great tandem if used correctly. We've seen Coburn wreck some shit, and Ojomo, only being 12, has shown to be a force as well. PK and Sark not playing Collins earlier is their ineptitude. 

I haven't seen anything from this DL to suggest that any of them are worth a shit. We get maybe one or two plays a game where the DL disrupts the play, and half the time they miss the tackle and the play goes for 5+ because our LBs are even worse. 

[Burt Macklin 19053]

4 minutes ago, TornACL said:

I haven't seen anything from this DL to suggest that any of them are worth a shit. We get maybe one or two plays a game where the DL disrupts the play, and half the time they miss the tackle and the play goes for 5+ because our LBs are even worse. 

And where do you factor in coaching/scheme in your conclusions? Simply saying I don’t see production, so there must not be talent seems like pretty poor reasoning. 

[Codaxx 5895]

4 minutes ago, TornACL said:

I haven't seen anything from this DL to suggest that any of them are worth a shit. We get maybe one or two plays a game where the DL disrupts the play, and half the time they miss the tackle and the play goes for 5+ because our LBs are even worse. 

Its all symbiotic. I think Collins and Sweat can be NFL players. Collins is a bit out of position, but still showing signs. Poor LB play means there are a lot of cut back lanes for RBs. 2 gapping on defense doesnt help the DL put up stats

[RaysBoomBoomRoom 5742]

33 minutes ago, TornACL said:

I haven't seen anything from this DL to suggest that any of them are worth a shit. We get maybe one or two plays a game where the DL disrupts the play, and half the time they miss the tackle and the play goes for 5+ because our LBs are even worse. 

Sweat and Murphy are good. Collins can be great. Coburn is not a liability. I do believe that a lot of it is scheme this year, they are being asked to absorb blocks to free the LB's. We are not being dominated up front they do a good job of not letting the OL get to the 2nd level, however our LB's are just not filling the right Gaps vs zone. Our DL's gap control technique is problematic because it makes them get almost no pass rush.  brockermeyer has been awful vs the run but he's a plus player vs the pass. better LB play and an edge rusher worth a crap would change everyones opinion about PK's Defense. I  think thats why you are seeing us load up on edge guys.

[Codaxx 5895]

3 minutes ago, RaysBoomBoomRoom said:

Sweat and Murphy are good. Collins can be great. Coburn is not a liability. I do believe that a lot of it is scheme this year, they are being asked to absorb blocks to free the LB's. We are not being dominated up front they do a good job of not letting the OL get to the 2nd level, however our LB's are just not filling the right Gaps vs zone. Our DL's gap control technique is problematic because it makes them get almost no pass rush.  brockermeyer has been awful vs the run but he's a plus player vs the pass. better LB play and an edge rusher worth a crap would change everyones opinion about PK's Defense. I  think thats why you are seeing us load up on edge guys.

forgot Murphy. He has been a nice surprise in limited action

[Funk Doctor Spock 12539]

1 hour ago, Burt Macklin said:

You’re still missing his point. Coburn sucked last year too under the old staff. He was good in 2019 when he was around 330. He’s showed up around 350 the last two years and been completely ineffective. It’s not due to Becton or PK in Coburn’s case. 

I probably am thinking of the year prior. I keep forgetting about covid and all that crap with Herman. Kind of bleached it from my brain.

[Burt Macklin 19053]

Just now, Spider2YBanana said:

I probably am thinking of the year prior. I keep forgetting about covid and all that crap with Herman. Kind of bleached it from my brain.

Any pointers for how to do that again for this season? 

[Funk Doctor Spock 12539]

1 hour ago, TornACL said:

I haven't seen anything from this DL to suggest that any of them are worth a shit. We get maybe one or two plays a game where the DL disrupts the play, and half the time they miss the tackle and the play goes for 5+ because our LBs are even worse. 

Oh man, don't even get me started on the LB'S. Good God they're the absolute worst. I wish the light would click on for Ford and Gbenda. Seeing Brockermeyer out there hurts in so many ways. 

[Funk Doctor Spock 12539]

Just now, Burt Macklin said:

Any pointers for how to do that again for this season? 

I just cry a lot in the bathroom at work 

[squeegeedegg 723]

Coburn was the weak link in 2019 on a 3 man front of Roach, Coburn, Graham.  LSU 3rd and 17 only works because he's giving up ground and spinning like a top in front of the center.  He's been pretty consistent in that regard throughout his time here

[Ricky Butler 2733]

36 minutes ago, Spider2YBanana said:

I just cry a lot in the bathroom at work 

Cry out in the open and you'll see who your real friends are.

[CurlyDumps 4485]

[bschoolprof 6273]

Did PK miss the flight to Ames?  

[CurlyDumps 4485]

16 minutes ago, bschoolprof said:

Did PK miss the flight to Ames?  

Still a looong 30 minutes left.

[bschoolprof 6273]

Just got up to the booth apparently.  

[taybo20 2878]

I just don’t understand how you can get beat by the same style play every fucking game.

fuck they are so bad and the coaches are stupid as fuck

[CurlyDumps 4485]

Wasted no time catastrophically collapsing in the 2nd half.

[ApocalypseTexas 299]

This is fundamentally the worse defense I have ever watched.  These players play with no passion with no desire to tackle.  Blame it on the coach and the players they both deserve equal shares for the shit they are displaying 

[USNALonghorn 5078]

Yeah, it’s not just the players.

[Slacks 6888]

The tackling is often all arms...

[vtaenz 602]

Defense was bad but this was squarely on the offense. Like "had money on ISU" bad.

[Texas Flood 1356]

 

 

[Codaxx 5895]

11 hours ago, Texas Flood said:

 

 

Roy is dead right. 80% of bad tackling is caused by bad positioning. It’s hard to tackle guys 1 on 1 in space. Texas finds ways to make sure most tackles are a 1 on 1 

[LTtxfan 49378]

13 hours ago, ApocalypseTexas said:

This is fundamentally the worse defense I have ever watched.  These players play with no passion with no desire to tackle.  Blame it on the coach and the players they both deserve equal shares for the shit they are displaying