Hey PK -- What would you say you do here?

[Codaxx 5806]

38 minutes ago, bschoolprof said:

I guess my expectations for this defense are so low that when they don't play terrible, I feel like they played great.  And the total offensive meltdown we had in the 2nd half not only made it tough on the defense but also has taken our attention away from the fact that this is systemically not a good defense.  Yes, injuries. yes, personnel limitations.  Ok.  

I'm not even talking about the objective stats; 41 points allowed, ~400 yards passing, ~150 yards rushing allowed, 32 first downs allowed on 97 plays. 

I'm mainly talking about just watching the way we play, particularly pass defense.  Our guys literally have no fucking idea what they are doing.  When you have one or two guys blow assignments, ok, maybe low football IQ.  But when it happens over and over across the board for most of the season, that's a coaching/communication issue.  Either the schemes are too complicated or are not being communicated in the correct way.  Tackling sucks not just because of poor effort but also because guys are out of position and take poor angles, which again is a coaching issue.  

I've never seen a team play so much of a 2 high safety shell have safeties that are literally invisible and irrelevant in the pass game.  It's amazing actually.  

The back breaker to me was the TD pass in the second half from around the 10 yard line. PK drops 8 with 20 yards to defend. Ford makes a 2 yard drop and ball goes over his head for a TD. People are yelling about prevent defense. The issue wasn’t that the QB had all day to throw, it was he didn’t need all day to throw. The other continuing issue is PK does not game plan well. Sanders is banged up and is comfortable throwing short, especially in-breaking routes. Texas gives up yard after yard on screens and in-breaking routes. CBs still don’t play inside leverage. If there was one change I could make it would be putting GP in charge of CBs or Safeties

[bschoolprof 6271]

7 minutes ago, Codaxx said:

The back breaker to me was the TD pass in the second half from around the 10 yard line. PK drops 8 with 20 yards to defend. Ford makes a 2 yard drop and ball goes over his head for a TD. People are yelling about prevent defense. The issue wasn’t that the QB had all day to throw, it was he didn’t need all day to throw. The other continuing issue is PK does not game plan well. Sanders is banged up and is comfortable throwing short, especially in-breaking routes. Texas gives up yard after yard on screens and in-breaking routes. CBs still don’t play inside leverage. If there was one change I could make it would be putting GP in charge of CBs or Safeties

Yeah, I always chuckle when we play such soft coverage in the red zone.  We've been doing that ever since PK got here.

Whatever success Washington enjoyed with him as the "DC" wasn't him.  We hired Garfunkel.  

[Codaxx 5806]

4 minutes ago, bschoolprof said:

Yeah, I always chuckle when we play such soft coverage in the red zone.  We've been doing that ever since PK got here.

Whatever success Washington enjoyed with him as the "DC" wasn't him.  We hired Garfunkel.  

I think you missed the point. The call wasn’t bad at all. The execution was just god awful. Texas got burned in man plenty in that game and ISU. With Watts, Cook, and Guilbeau out that is probably the right call. It is just amazing to me that on a short field, dropping 8, OSU finds their first read for an easy TD. It not soft zone, it is bad zone 

Edited October 23, 2022 by Codaxx

[bschoolprof 6271]

8 minutes ago, Codaxx said:

I think you missed the point. The call wasn’t bad at all. The execution was just god awful. Texas got burned in man plenty in that game and ISU. With Watts, Cook, and Guilbeau out that is probably the right call. It is just amazing to me that on a short field, dropping 8, OSU finds their first read for an easy TD. It not soft zone, it is bad zone 

yeah - I missed the point.  

[Codaxx 5806]

Sark’s presser was a bit disturbing to me. He said the plan coming into the game was to wall off the WRs from the inside out, because OSU likes to throw in-breaking routes. Didn’t seem the defense got that message . 

[bschoolprof 6271]

1 hour ago, Codaxx said:

Sark’s presser was a bit disturbing to me. He said the plan coming into the game was to wall off the WRs from the inside out, because OSU likes to throw in-breaking routes. Didn’t seem the defense got that message . 

I don't think our back end is getting any message at all.  They've looked lost for 1.5 years now.  The communicators/teachers aren't doing a good job.  It doesn't matter what Sark or PK knows.  It matters what the players know.  

[MonkeyDoughnut 10334]

45 minutes ago, bschoolprof said:

I don't think our back end is getting any message at all.  They've looked lost for 1.5 years now.  The communicators/teachers aren't doing a good job.  It doesn't matter what Sark or PK knows.  It matters what the players know.  

Agreed. This season I feel like Im seeing much more "want to" but not enough "know how to" to do what is being asked of them.

[utexas8 1463]

[Surly Bevo 25090]

Our secondary is average with all its starters in and downright meadoker with a few injuries like we have now, but the lack of any ability to get quick pressure off the edge would handicap a lot of schemes.  The O line knows they don't have any guy (much less two) they have to pay extra close attention to and it becomes easy to block and let the QB sit back there and pick our secondary apart.

 

 

[Had Enough 2083]

Not the gospel but OSU had 14 pressures to our 31.

Their running game averaged 3.6 versus ours at 6.4. Their QB increased their yards per rush. Ours did the opposite and we had a team loss for 7 yards.

So whatever he’s saying there is made up bs.

[Surly Bevo 25090]

We get a lot of hurries because we do get some decent push up the middle of the pocket and thus this definition comes into play, and hurries, sacks, and knockdowns amount to pressure.  The problem is QB is hurried but can easily slide right or left and find the guy our secondary has lost....over the middle.

• Hurried: Times QBs were hurried - defined as a situation when the QB is forced to throw the ball earlier than intended or is chased around/out of the pocket as the result of defensive pressure

[Codaxx 5806]

22 minutes ago, Had Enough said:

Not the gospel but OSU had 14 pressures to our 31.

Their running game averaged 3.6 versus ours at 6.4. Their QB increased their yards per rush. Ours did the opposite and we had a team loss for 7 yards.

So whatever he’s saying there is made up bs.

There is some truth to it. Something I haven’t thought much about. How much deception is the defense using? Running Bluffs (fake blitzes) can confuse OLs and QBs. I am not sure it is rant on twitter worthy, but it should be in the arsenal. (Show 5 on the LOS and drop 2 of them) 

Edited October 23, 2022 by Codaxx

[Had Enough 2083]

There is some truth to it. Something I haven’t thought much about. How much deception is the defense using? Running Bluffs (fake blitzes) can confuse OLs and QBs. I am not sure it is rant on twitter worthy, but it should be in the arsenal. (Show 5 on the LOS and drop 2 of them) 

I haven’t noticed us doing it that much. We get quite a few delayed blitzes as our LBers seem to check the back then attack if there’s no immediate threat for the pass to the RB. But that leaves a hole in our supposed zone.

Apparently we are good at creating a little discomfort but not finishing off the Qb.

[hookem48 4701]

1 hour ago, Surly Bevo said:

Our secondary is average with all its starters in and downright meadoker with a few injuries like we have now, but the lack of any ability to get quick pressure off the edge would handicap a lot of schemes.  The O line knows they don't have any guy (much less two) they have to pay extra close attention to and it becomes easy to block and let the QB sit back there and pick our secondary apart.

 

 

that's the fucking killer, teams don't even give a thought about edge pressure against us

[Codaxx 5806]

1 hour ago, Surly Bevo said:

Our secondary is average with all its starters in and downright meadoker with a few injuries like we have now, but the lack of any ability to get quick pressure off the edge would handicap a lot of schemes.  The O line knows they don't have any guy (much less two) they have to pay extra close attention to and it becomes easy to block and let the QB sit back there and pick our secondary apart.

 

 

In fairness to the rush, they secondary rarely makes the QB hold onto the ball to help the rush. Kind of sad chicken and egg thing 

[satyanash 14570]

 

[Skipper 6162]

Cook is basically done for the year right?  That's a huge loss for us.  

[OB3 3629]

1 minute ago, Skipper said:

Cook is basically done for the year right?  That's a huge loss for us.  

Nahlin said he might be able to play last 3 games, I guess depending on how everything goes

[Levi 2588]

Ovie is killing us. I was absolutely livid watching this play live. 

[FreeHorn 1307]

Somebody please let me know why we keep playing Ovie? What does he do well? At this point let the young guys get those reps. It can’t be any worse. 
 

 

[Deej 76860]

5 minutes ago, FreeHorn said:

It can’t be any worse. 

You say that, but...

[BurntOrange&White 39934]

12 minutes ago, FreeHorn said:

Somebody please let me know why we keep playing Ovie? What does he do well? At this point let the young guys get those reps. It can’t be any worse. 
 

 

This defensive staff and their personnel decisions is baffling

[Injury Prone 86]

There’s absolutely NO reason Ovie should be playing over any of the younger ends/edge rushers. ZERO. 

[FreeHorn 1307]

24 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

This defensive staff and their personnel decisions is baffling

Finkley, Burke, and Tapp need to be getting a major increase in reps. 
 

Crawford is someone I was high in but he has proven to be all athlete and terrible at actually playing football. I would like to see Allen or Coffey get some of those reps. IT mentioned Allen had a set back in August as a reason he hasn’t seen the field but I don’t remember any set backs being reported. 
 

Hoping they use the bye week well and also stop being so predictable on third downs. 

Hell I’d rather put another DT at end over seeing Ovie. It won’t effect the pass rush cause Ovie ain’t getting pressure anyway. 

[Codaxx 5806]

11 minutes ago, FreeHorn said:

Finkley, Burke, and Tapp need to be getting a major increase in reps. 
 

Crawford is someone I was high in but he has proven to be all athlete and terrible at actually playing football. I would like to see Allen or Coffey get some of those reps. IT mentioned Allen had a set back in August as a reason he hasn’t seen the field but I don’t remember any set backs being reported. 
 

Hoping they use the bye week well and also stop being so predictable on third downs. 

Hell I’d rather put another DT at end over seeing Ovie. It won’t effect the pass rush cause Ovie ain’t getting pressure anyway. 

Perhaps the biggest issue one the defense is the lack of developing any depth. 

[Skipper 6162]

1 hour ago, DoneWithit said:

Ovie is killing us. I was absolutely livid watching this play live. 

This is infuriating to watch again.  We play the screen perfectly and Ovie just gifts them a first down with sheer incompetence.  He's flat out awful.

[Skipper 6162]

28 minutes ago, Injury Prone said:

There’s absolutely NO reason Ovie should be playing over any of the younger ends/edge rushers. ZERO. 

What's crazy is Ovie completely forgetting his assignment is something you would expect from a FR without experience.  Not completely fucking up the play call is probably only justification for playing him then he does that.  Agreed, I hope they try to get the FR ready during the bye week and live with the consequences.  

[Levi 2588]

33 minutes ago, Skipper said:

What's crazy is Ovie completely forgetting his assignment is something you would expect from a FR without experience.  Not completely fucking up the play call is probably only justification for playing him then he does that.  Agreed, I hope they try to get the FR ready during the bye week and live with the consequences.  

Yeah, if Ovie isn’t going to give us any pass rush then I’d rather have a freshman miss an assignment then a veteran. Let the younger guys grow and develop because Ovie obviously hasn’t gotten the memo. 

[pacman 7365]

Ignoring his assignment responsibility is the only thing Ovie does well.

[Tex Long 4410]

Maybe hold his position coach accountable? Will he  hold himself accountable? 

[Rockethorn1978 6101]

Not sure why anyone would be surprised. Pk routinely played shitty guys that some said we’re actively sabotaging the season by not giving a shit yet pk kept trotting them out. Maybe this off season cdc will rearrange the titanic deck chairs before his next coaching search.

[Brothahorn 10087]

On 10/24/2022 at 2:26 PM, pacman said:

Ignoring his assignment responsibility is the only thing Ovie does well.

Too bad the players don't have anyone to address their shortcomings and hold them accountable. They obviously just go out there and play how they want. If it works, it works. If not, oh well. The next recruiting class will figure it out, though.

[Codaxx 5806]

Here is an interesting look at back to back plays. OSU runs the same play. 

 

2nd 6

Notice the Nickel is shaded to the inside of the WR. 

Slant is bracketed by the NB and the LB. Sanders is forced to make the long throw outside that is incomplete. 

3rd and 6. OSU runs the exact same concept and hits the slant for a 1st down. Notice the NB is now head up on the slot WR. The MLB is blitzing

Th

The middle of the field is just wide open for an easy completion (I believe Ovie is spying Sanders). This is little perplexing to me. Sark said in his post game presser the plan was to wall of the WRs inside out, because they do a great job of throwing inside routes. On the 2nd down play the nickel has inside help from the MLB and the NB is shaded to the inside. The 3rd down with no inside help, the NB is playing heap up. Seems ass backward to me, especially if you are attempting to take away inside routes. 

 

 

Edited October 26, 2022 by Codaxx

[Thatguy 8761]

1 hour ago, Codaxx said:

Here is an interesting look at back to back plays. OSU runs the same play. 

 

2nd 6

Notice the Nickel is shaded to the inside of the WR. 

Slant is bracketed by the NB and the LB. Sanders is forced to make the long throw outside that is incomplete. 

3rd and 6. OSU runs the exact same concept and hits the slant for a 1st down. Notice the NB is now head up on the slot WR. The MLB is blitzing

Th

The middle of the field is just wide open for an easy completion (I believe Ovie is spying Sanders). This is little perplexing to me. Sark said in his post game presser the plan was to wall of the WRs inside out, because they do a great job of throwing inside routes. On the 2nd down play the nickel has inside help from the MLB and the NB is shaded to the inside. The 3rd down with no inside help, the NB is playing heap up. Seems ass backward to me, especially if you are attempting to take away inside routes. 

 

 

On both occasions the LB let's him inside on the release regardless of what the LB is doing. Head scratcher for sure. 

[Codaxx 5806]

28 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

On both occasions the LB  NB let's him inside on the release regardless of what the LB is doing. Head scratcher for sure. 

You can give inside release, when you have help on the inside. The MLB is in position to make the play on any in-breaking routes (in theory). Ford's presence is why Sanders did not go to the slant on the first play. 

When you dont have help and the game plan is to take away the inside routes, it does not make sense to play head up. Slot has a 2way go, that is tough ask on NB. The easiest throw for the QB is an in-breaking route. You want to force the QB to hold it or make a tougher throw to the outside. The point is the alignment of the NB is ass backwards based on the calls. 

 

Edited October 26, 2022 by Codaxx

[Fico 1790]

The NB is a freshman. For the 3rd down play he is playing "man," but to your point he should have inside leverage... i.e. the NB outside eye should be over the #2 WR's inside eye. The NB's first step should a 45 angle backpedal with his inside foot further solidifying inside leverage, and provide a driving force should it be a quick flare or pop pass to #2. That slight leverage pre-snap and the first step should prevent any initial stem from gaining inside leverage.

It's not complicated, but our guys just lack discipline, intelligence, reps or all three.

 

[horny_gunman 137]

15 minutes ago, Fico said:

The NB is a freshman. For the 3rd down play he is playing "man," but to your point he should have inside leverage... i.e. the NB outside eye should be over the #2 WR's inside eye. The NB's first step should a 45 angle backpedal with his inside foot further solidifying inside leverage, and provide a driving force should it be a quick flare or pop pass to #2. That slight leverage pre-snap and the first step should prevent any initial stem from gaining inside leverage.

It's not complicated, but our guys just lack discipline, intelligence, reps or all three.

 

Pretty much this. It’s a fine point of playing man coverage.  The next thing that DB should do is to beat the WR to the ball on the play because he should have at least some inside leverage and ability to go downhill on the play. That doesn’t happen either. He winds up trailing and catching from behind. My beef here is with coaches Joseph and Gideon - teaching and fine-tuning mechanics is literally their job. 

[Codaxx 5806]

21 minutes ago, Fico said:

The NB is a freshman. For the 3rd down play he is playing "man," but to your point he should have inside leverage... i.e. the NB outside eye should be over the #2 WR's inside eye. The NB's first step should a 45 angle backpedal with his inside foot further solidifying inside leverage, and provide a driving force should it be a quick flare or pop pass to #2. That slight leverage pre-snap and the first step should prevent any initial stem from gaining inside leverage.

It's not complicated, but our guys just lack discipline, intelligence, reps or all three.

 

Exactly, its annoying. By alignment Texas told the QB where to look pre-snap (assume slot is #1, and outside WR is #2 in the progression). Outside WR is running a stop/out (cant really see). You dont need to be 40 year Sanders at QB to look at the 2 pre-snap pictures and figure out when to throw the Slant. This is without even talking about technique or execution

Edited October 26, 2022 by Codaxx

[Fondren & Main 6726]

Guilbeau is a freshman, correct?  Crawford is the bigger mystery.  Guy is a damned junior and can't figure it out.

[Thatguy 8761]

1 hour ago, Codaxx said:

You can give inside release, when you have help on the inside. The MLB is in position to make the play on any in-breaking routes (in theory). Ford's presence is why Sanders did not go to the slant on the first play. 

When you dont have help and the game plan is to take away the inside routes, it does not make sense to play head up. Slot has a 2way go, that is tough ask on NB. The easiest throw for the QB is an in-breaking route. You want to force the QB to hold it or make a tougher throw to the outside. The point is the alignment of the NB is ass backwards based on the calls. 

 

Thank you for correcting my typing. That's what happens when you type at 4am. He actually is slightly shaded to the inside if you look at his outside foot and draw a line to the receiver's inside foot. The problem is he waits til the receiver makes his break to even move instead of reinforcing his leverage by taking an inside and back step with his left foot. He lost at the snap of the ball thereby giving up an easy completion. 

  This is an example for anyone here who keeps banging the "but we have more talent than them" drum. There is potential talent and there is usable talent. For example. There are athletes that aren't overly physically gifted but just busted their ass honing their technique and found a way to get a D1 scholarship. Then there are the kids who graded well above average physically but just out-talented everyone in high school. We get the latter and lesser schools get the former. So a lot of the time their kids can come in and contribute right away, as well as they don't lose as many kids to the league or portal. 

[Codaxx 5806]

53 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

Thank you for correcting my typing. That's what happens when you type at 4am. He actually is slightly shaded to the inside if you look at his outside foot and draw a line to the receiver's inside foot. The problem is he waits til the receiver makes his break to even move instead of reinforcing his leverage by taking an inside and back step with his left foot. He lost at the snap of the ball thereby giving up an easy completion. 

  This is an example for anyone here who keeps banging the "but we have more talent than them" drum. There is potential talent and there is usable talent. For example. There are athletes that aren't overly physically gifted but just busted their ass honing their technique and found a way to get a D1 scholarship. Then there are the kids who graded well above average physically but just out-talented everyone in high school. We get the latter and lesser schools get the former. So a lot of the time their kids can come in and contribute right away, as well as they don't lose as many kids to the league or portal. 

 Looks head up to me, but I can see arguing he is slightly off set. Points on technique are all dead on in this thread. I showed both plays, because they were back to back and the NB had a different alignment (granted different coverages) vs the same concepts. My point was Guilbeau needs to understand the tendencies (game plan) and where help is. Sark told us the game plan (inside leverage). Guilbeau knows he has no help to the inside on the second play. He also knows OSU likes to throw between the hashes. He should know, if anything, he needs to over-play the WR to the inside. Make OSU you beat you by doing something they are not comfortable doing. If Sanders' beats you by throwing outside the numbers, so be it. You can let not him have comfortable throws inside the hashmarks. This is the difference between a well coached secondary and a poor one.  Example being Bijan got his typical 1 TD pass on the rail road concept. After half OSU jumped Bijan on any wheel route (Quinn threw 1 int and luckily had one pick 6 called back on similar concepts in the 2nd half). The Texas secondary is not understanding the bigger picture. They are just running plays and not understanding the big picture. They are losing before the snap. Add poor technique and mediocre athletes and you get ugly 3rd numbers. 

Edited October 26, 2022 by Codaxx

[Thatguy 8761]

1 hour ago, Codaxx said:

 Looks head up to me, but I can see arguing he is slightly off set. Points on technique are all dead on in this thread. I showed both plays, because they were back to back and the NB had a different alignment (granted different coverages) vs the same concepts. My point was Guilbeau needs to understand the tendencies (game plan) and where help is. Sark told us the game plan (inside leverage). Guilbeau knows he has no help to the inside on the second play. He also knows OSU likes to throw between the hashes. He should know, if anything, he needs to over-play the WR to the inside. Make OSU you beat you by doing something they are not comfortable doing. If Sanders' beats you by throwing outside the numbers, so be it. You can let not him have comfortable throws inside the hashmarks. This is the difference between a well coached secondary and a poor one.  Example being Bijan got his typical 1 TD pass on the rail road concept. After half OSU jumped Bijan on any wheel route (Quinn threw 1 int and luckily had one pick 6 called back on similar concepts in the 2nd half). The Texas secondary is not understanding the bigger picture. They are just running plays and not understanding the big picture. They are losing before the snap. Add poor technique and mediocre athletes and you get ugly 3rd numbers. 

 Correct. This is what a freshman who has gotten by on pure athleticism looks like. They have to fail and fail miserably before they will start to listen to reason, because up until now they've always gotten by simply by being able to makeup the bad technique with pure athleticism. I went through that with my daughter at the end of last vball season. You would tell her something and she would go out there and do what she wanted. From the outside it looks like the coaches don't recognize it, but from the inside they keep making the same mistake after being told over and over. A kid like that you would normally sit but we are so thin we can't afford to sit him. sigh

[LTtxfan 49320]

On 10/24/2022 at 11:35 AM, Levi said:

Ovie is killing us. I was absolutely livid watching this play live. 

Fuck Ovie on that play... just a fuckin' ridiculous over-pursuit

 "DO YOUR FUCKIN' JOB"

[LTtxfan 49320]

Scipio Tex on defense vs okie lite...

Thanks to @satyanash

[Newy25 7703]

On 10/24/2022 at 11:35 AM, Levi said:

Ovie is killing us. I was absolutely livid watching this play live. 

Criminal incompetence by the coaching staff to use Ovie as a spy on Sanders. 

[stork642 4498]

On 10/24/2022 at 1:03 PM, Skipper said:

What's crazy is Ovie completely forgetting his assignment is something you would expect from a FR without experience.  Not completely fucking up the play call is probably only justification for playing him then he does that.  Agreed, I hope they try to get the FR ready during the bye week and live with the consequences.  

They practice all year and he can’t handle a simple assignment.  At least if he’s playing the right spot and misses the tackle that’s even infuriating but to not even complete the simple task of eyeing the QB is just WOW.   He needs to be benched.  

[Had Enough 2083]

Y’all are being rough on Ovie for his pass rush skills. He’s always spying. That’s why his sack numbers aren’t higher.

[Skipper 6162]

1 hour ago, Newy25 said:

Criminal incompetence by the coaching staff to use Ovie as a spy on Sanders. 

Look at the alignment.  We're rushing 3 on 3rd and 9.  Not unreasonable that he's got the QB in that set.  He just has to execute.  Even if he misses the tackle if he just slows him down we probably have time to recover to stop him

[Fico 1790]

Yeah I disagree with Scipio on that assessment. We had a perfectly fine defense called and executed it to near perfection. Ovie failed miserably and Broughton just failed normally. 10 guys executed damn well, 1.5 failures on the backside of the play allowed a playmaker to make a play.

Do your job.

[Skipper 6162]

12 hours ago, Fico said:

Yeah I disagree with Scipio on that assessment. We had a perfectly fine defense called and executed it to near perfection. Ovie failed miserably and Broughton just failed normally. 10 guys executed damn well, 1.5 failures on the backside of the play allowed a playmaker to make a play.

Do your job.

I always read Scipio's pieces with a grain of salt.  He constantly criticizes scheme without knowing the actual play call and when players just fucked up.  Just looking at the play without any comment from Sark, it's beyond obvious Ovie was not supposed to follow the fucking RB all the way across the field leaving the middle wide open.  If at the 2 second mark of that clip Ovie turns up field towards the line of scrimmage, Spencer (who at that point is staring at the RB realizing we have the play completely covered) probably throws the ball in the dirt or turns up field (too late) for minimal gain.  Instead, by 3 second mark he sees Ovie leave him a wide open lane and reacts accordingly.