Hey PK -- What would you say you do here?

[Codaxx 5766]

15 minutes ago, Park Gothic said:

I wouldn't say it's BS, but it is certainly subjective. Sacks and hits are easy to measure, but "hurries" seems to vary wildly depending on who is doing the measuring. Is it any time the QB has to leave the pocket? Is it only when there's a near miss? 

PFF does seem to be an outlier in terms of overcounting pressure. For example:

 

BS is probably strong, but how about highly subjective

[Tex Long 4401]

15 minutes ago, Park Gothic said:

... "hurries" seems to vary wildly depending on who is doing the measuring.

The measure seems to be taken as how close you get to the QB. It should be related to that plus the result. Did it cause a bad pass and no completion? Yes, then that's a "hurry" or a "pressure" or whatever you want to call it. If the pass is completed or only broken up, then it shouldn't be looked at as a plus for the defense. 

Then, too, some QBs are highly prone to being affected by the pass rush, while some are imperturbable, stay cool and hit their throws. Cherchez le QB.

[Horn of Gabriel 1617]

On 1/3/2024 at 1:32 PM, TheMailBox357 said:

Penix definitely reminded me of Joe Burrow in the 2019 LSU-Texas game.

Agree w/ Vogel's tweet here.  Texas' Defense certainly wasn't great, but it wasn't lack of scheme or effort.  Murphy had Penix dead to rights after shaking two blockers on a play and Penix casually sidestepped him and dropped a 20 yard dime.  Penix is just damn good, and has 3 NFL wide receivers.  Babers made an interesting point on the OTF podcast: he thought that UW was going to attack the safeties, which are a coverage weakness, but mostly they didn't - they attacked the corners.  Ryan Watts, even Barron.  They all got cooked at one point in 1-on-1 coverage, and most of Penix's big completions were outside the hashes where a safety isn't going to be a big factor.

UW neutralized our biggest strength in Sweat and Murphy by 1) good protection, 2) running away from them, and 3) Penix being elusive in the pocket and getting the ball out quick.

[Codaxx 5766]

2 minutes ago, Horn of Gabriel said:

Agree w/ Vogel's tweet here.  Texas' Defense certainly wasn't great, but it wasn't lack of scheme or effort.  Murphy had Penix dead to rights after shaking two blockers on a play and Penix casually sidestepped him and dropped a 20 yard dime.  Penix is just damn good, and has 3 NFL wide receivers.  Babers made an interesting point on the OTF podcast: he thought that UW was going to attack the safeties, which are a coverage weakness, but mostly they didn't - they attacked the corners.  Ryan Watts, even Barron.  They all got cooked at one point in 1-on-1 coverage, and most of Penix's big completions were outside the hashes where a safety isn't going to be a big factor.

UW neutralized our biggest strength in Sweat and Murphy by 1) good protection, 2) running away from them, and 3) Penix being elusive in the pocket and getting the ball out quick.

I think it is a bit of a mixed bag. Some of it was Penix just being on fire and some of it was the Texas defense. 

You had some ineffective blitz packages. You had 2 conversions that were simply converted due to alignment/scheme (TE catch on like 3rd an 2, where he basically took 2 steps and turned around with nobody accounting for him and Taaffe being asked to cover an out from a NFL WR from depth)

[bschoolprof 6263]

33 minutes ago, Codaxx said:

I think it is a bit of a mixed bag. Some of it was Penix just being on fire and some of it was the Texas defense. 

You had some ineffective blitz packages. You had 2 conversions that were simply converted due to alignment/scheme (TE catch on like 3rd an 2, where he basically took 2 steps and turned around with nobody accounting for him and Taaffe being asked to cover an out from a NFL WR from depth)

Def this. Here's a good discussion of these scheme issues.

I think our defensive struggles came down to, in order of importance:

1) Washington's offense is really good and Penix had the best game of his career; hats off to them.  

2) Many of our DBs are poor in coverage, in terms of both raw talent and development

3) PK has a tendency to dial up defenses against good passing offenses that sometimes seem destined to lose even before the ball is snapped (see the video above).

On 2, some development issues that we have seen throughout the year are:

a) our guys do not play the ball well in the air.  Even when they are in good position and are not burned, they never turn for the ball. 

b) when they play up in man, they rarely if ever get good contact on the WRs to knock them off their routes and disrupt timing

c) our safeties take bad angles and make poor reads

On 3, I have a theory that Sark and PK's vision of the defense may not be completely aligned.  During the season, Sark made comments at PCs that we needed to be more aggressive defensively.  I've noticed we have played a lot more press man at the snap than we used to (during his Sugar Bowl availability, PK indicated some recent changes in pass defense had been made).  We are not very good at it. Related to the video above, I think some of PK's blitz packages may be tied more to his legacy softer zoner coverages on the back end.  This is just a theory though.  If you listen to his PC, PK very much prefers a "make them drive the whole field" approach, but later in the season we played with much more aggressive alignments.  Penix made us pay for this.    

 

Edited January 5 by bschoolprof

[Had Enough 2083]

I am startign to think the pressure stat is BS. I know Texas did get some pressure, but there is no way I believe the 20 pressure number. I thought I watched the game pretty closely and I do not remember Texas pressuring Penix on half his attempts. 

I don’t know exactly, but I don’t think it’s pressure per play in that you can have multiple pressures per play. If Penix were to avoid 3 rushers on one play, all 3 get a pressure, which could be accurate.

The measurement criteria is probably well defined but would still have subjectivity. Just like any stat it needs to be taken into context. You’d hope that the method of measurement is consistent.

[pops 7003]

Man,  penix had the best game of his career on the biggest stage. Sometimes you just have to tip the cap. 

And after all that,  Texas  still had 4 shots from the 15 to win. 

Helluva game. Sucks to be on this side,  but it wasn't a fluke. Future appears bright. 

[Had Enough 2083]

Babers made an interesting point on the OTF podcast: he thought that UW was going to attack the safeties, which are a coverage weakness, but mostly they didn't - they attacked the corners.  Ryan Watts, even Barron.  They all got cooked at one point in 1-on-1 coverage, and most of Penix's big completions were outside the hashes where a safety isn't going to be a big factor.

Damn people. The threat was always against our corners. Set aside Houston and there was not much attacking the safeties. The offense had one isolation versus Bama on a safety. One versus KU (game was essentially over at that point).

Against Houston, I believe one TD was the corner, one was in a 4/5 wide in which the QB escaped the pocket, rolling to the same side, then one S isolation with a damn good throw.

TCU, KSU didn’t attack the safeties. Tech, OSU. Nope. OU only got 1 deep against a guy that wasn’t playing late in the season. BU got 2 deep, one against a guy not playing late, and the other debatable as to whether that was even safety play. Rice, Wyoming, BYU didn’t accomplish much.

The biggest risk to safeties in pass coverage is 4/5 WR sets and isolated 1 v 1 down the field. That’s every team in America, every year. Our personnel sets are 5 DBs. Always. So straight up man from the safeties would be the 4th/5th guy with one of those likely being a TE or an RB. That’s not a major disadvantage for our safeties. It wasn’t all year.

We emphasize taking away the run. With that there will opportunities to isolate a WR on the corners. They have 3 very capable wideouts that they’d happily go to against our corners. Barron is great, but he’s best around the LOS. There’s limited value in working against safeties when you can more easily get those matchups versus corners.

[Rimbo 25976]

So what's the personnel gonna look like on defense next year?

[boilerhorn 1393]

In his career, Penix has had some big games.  

2020 - at IU - OC = Kalen DeBoer (present UW HC)
2020 - at #3 tosu - COVID, so no asshole fans in stadium - 27/51 - 491 yards - 5 TD, 1 INT in 42-35 loss.  TD passes 4, 63, 33, 16, and 56. Other passes of 68 and 51.
2020 -  #23 Michigan at IU - no fans - 30/50 - 342 yds - 3 TD, 0 INT in 38-21 win
2020 - at MSU - no fans - 25/38 - 320 yds - 2 TD, 2 INT in 24-0 win 

2021 at IU - was so-so.  DeBoer was at Fresno and Penix was injured for latter half of season.

2022 - at UW - DeBoer as HC
10 300+ yard games; 3 400+ yard games, 1 500+ yard game.  2nd lowest passing output was against Texas in Alamo bowl.  Lowest was against Colorado, who they beat by 35.

2023 - at UW - DeBoer as HC
10 300+ yard games; 4 400+ yard games.  Seemed to struggle against ASU, OSU, WSU.  

That all said, he did have a near perfect night against Texas.

[LTtxfan 49253]

If you dare, analysis of Penix vs Texas Defense.  Offensive scheme and play design abused PK's defense due to lack of QB pressure.

Michael Penix Jr. Shreds Texas!

2 days ago

[tbone_ 14128]

Earth shattering news there

[LTtxfan 49253]

More for tbone  😋

Washington's Game-Changing Plays That Helped Beat Texas

2 days ago

[ClubWhatever 12147]

Here, look at this video and a guy driving a spike into his knee.

here's another angle

[jw4381 3080]

23 minutes ago, LTtxfan said:

More for tbone  😋

Washington's Game-Changing Plays That Helped Beat Texas

2 days ago

Thompson’s effort on the first play is…sub par. Damn. 

[Rip76 4943]

https://247sports.com/college/texas/Article/texas-longhorns-football-johnny-nansen-arizona-hiring-as-co-defensive-coordinator-linebackers-coach-steve-sarkisian-223167997/?fbclid=IwAR1X3GvyWkQBSA6JQIwNevaUW6QdK5kdiwzq9DVxf8zp4z4VMxMxBognaJM_aem_AZ2SzpObYg57pqlMl5Q8-EBPKxTrWiCr9Eoo70CD5QAN1EYNdL_AsIGKpbug8KcCEGA

Sarkisian hiring former assistant Johnny Nansen as co-defensive coordinator and linebackers coach

[bschoolprof 6263]

Is CDC going to get them a boat club membership?

Too soon?  

[jw4381 3080]

He should bring Manu with him. 

[Thatguy 8751]

The pressure rate stat is bs because it accounts for pressures as an each and not per play. What your eyes see is the truth. We have sucked at edge play for seemingly ever, and it was a big big problem all season. We had a couple plays where we got close, and a LOT of plays where he was standing back there for seemingly ever. Literally the worst guy on the planet to give time to. It was the one thing we COULD NO do. They want time. Time gives them separation. Time clears up the passing picture and lets you throw outside the hashes where balls don't get intercepted. We played right into their hands and literally played defense exactly how they would want a team to if they could draw it up for us. We compounded the problem by not playing the ball well in the air. Guy after guy panicked. No one kept their cool and used any technique to time up ball arrival.

Some of the throws were down right perfect, but we also had a chance to do something a couple times and did the opposite. You can't let a QB like that play 7 on 7.

[LTtxfan 49253]

A 25-year coaching veteran, Nansen coordinated a defense at Arizona that helped a Wildcats’ resurgence to a 10-3 record, No. 14 national ranking, and Valero Alamo Bowl victory this season.

Quote

AUSTIN, Texas — Texas Head Coach Steve Sarkisian has tabbed Johnny Nansen, one of the nation's top defensive coaches, as the Longhorns' co-Defensive Coordinator/Linebackers Coach. A veteran of 25 years in coaching, Nansen spent the past year as Defensive Coordinator at Arizona where his unit helped lead a Wildcats resurgence in a 10-3 Valero Alamo Bowl Championship campaign. He has coached on both sides of the ball, as well as special teams throughout his career, spent seven years previously on Sarkisian's staffs, and been focused on defense the past eight years. Nansen replaces Jeff Choate, who is now the head coach at Nevada and coached for the Longhorns through the College Football Playoff game at the Allstate Sugar Bowl.

"Johnny is a guy I've known for a long time, and I have so much respect for," said Sarkisian. "He has a wealth of knowledge and experience, is highly regarded in our business, and is a tremendous recruiter. He's a high-energy coach who does a great job developing his players and getting the best out of them. Johnny's been focused on the defensive side of the ball the past eight years, and what he did with Arizona's defense that helped lead a dramatic turnaround in that program this year was sensational. He brings an aggressive, physical and disciplined style of football, his players play fast, relentless and tough, and he's had success everywhere he's been. And on top of that, he's a great man who builds awesome relationships with his players and is passionate about the game. He'll pour everything into our team, our players and Texas Football. Longhorn nation is going to love Johnny, and we're fired up to have him joining our staff."

Nansen, who has worked in a variety of roles during his career, spent the past eight years on the defensive side of the ball including the last two seasons as defensive coordinator at Arizona. His defense played a vital role in the Wildcats resurgence in 2023, going from 5-7 in 2022 to a 10-3 record, victory over No. 12 Oklahoma in the Alamo Bowl, and a No. 14 national ranking at the end of the regular season. Nansen's defense forced six Sooner turnovers (three fumbles, three interceptions) which the Wildcats converted into 27 points — including a fumble return for a touchdown — in a 38-24 win.

"When Coach Sark called it was an easy decision. It's a dream come true to work at a place like Texas — with all its rich history and tradition — and reuniting with Sark is a big part of it, too," said Nansen. "He gave me a chance at Washington and USC, and I've been fortunate to grow as a coach through him and look forward to doing that again. You just look at his record, he knows how to build a program, and he does it the right way. Sark knows how to develop coaches, and he's as good as there is at developing players, which is something that is really important to me, too. A lot of my philosophy is based on what Sark believes in, so being able to reunite with him, his vision, passion and drive to succeed every single day was a key factor in coming to Texas."

"The caliber of players and the commitment that The University of Texas has for football is second to none," Nansen added. "Texas is a place where you can compete for National Championships, work with the best of the best, and be a part of a place and a state that loves its football, which is so exciting. I'm thrilled to have the chance to work with the awesome staff Sark's built, as well. That's a great group of coaches and incredible guys I get to be a part of. I can't wait to get started."

The standout performance in the Alamo Bowl secured 10-plus wins for the Wildcats for just the fourth time in school history, while their seven victories in Pac-12 play matched Arizona's most ever. Nansen's defense played a critical role in the team's success, ranking among the nation's top 30 in fumble recoveries (10/16th), red zone defense (76%/17th), rushing defense (118.2 ypg/25th), scoring defense (21.2 ppg/29th), and sacks (34/2.6 pg/25th). The Wildcats held opponents to 357.9 yards per game on the year. During the season, Nansen's defense held three teams that ranked in the top 25 at the time they played to fewer than 18 points in wins (No. 20 UCLA, 27-10; No. 19 Washington State, 48-6; No. 16 Utah, 42-18). His 2023 Arizona defense was led by first-team All-Pac-12 linebacker Jacob Manu, who led the Wildcats with 116 tackles while recording 6.5 sacks and 9.5 tackles for loss this season. Safety Gunner Maldonado earned Alamo Bowl Defensive MVP honors after posting an interception and two fumble recoveries, one of which he returned 87 yards for a touchdown, in the win over Oklahoma.

"He's that guy," Maldonado said after the Alamo Bowl. "We love him … everybody just loves being around him, and this year I think we've really just trusted him, trusted his play call. We just love how he coaches, his energy. He loves us — he talks about trusting each other, loving on each other, and you see it, day in and day out. He's the same guy every day. I'm pretty sure he tackled one of our guys on the sideline after a big play today, that's just him. We love him, he's just a great person, great coach."

"Like Sark, I believe the way the game is played is physical, I want to put our players in a position to play fast, and I think it's really important to be a great teacher of the game," Nansen added. "Sark says it all the time, and I've carried that with me – successful teams play fast, physical, smart football, and have a passion for the game. That's how I coach. Our players will understand why and how they do things. I'm big on developing players, and that's one of the things that intrigued me the most about coming to Texas, having the opportunity to work with elite athletes and helping them develop as players and people. That's Coach Sark's vision, and we are absolutely aligned in that."

Nansen took over as defensive coordinator for Arizona Football in 2022 when the Wildcats were coming off four-straight losing seasons, including a 1-11 mark in 2021 and 0-5 in 2020. Once aboard, Nansen began the transformation by playing a key role in building Arizona's 2022 signing class that ranked second in the Pac-12, 22nd nationally, and included the first five-star signee in program history. The Wildcats were 5-7 the first year, but Nansen's aggressive defense showed signs of turning things around, forcing 16 turnovers — 10 more than 2021 — and improving their win total by four games. That paved the way for an increase of five wins to their first 10-win campaign in a decade this year. His defense increased their turnover total to 19 this season, converting those into 63 points.

Prior to Arizona, Nansen spent the previous two seasons coaching the defensive line for UCLA. During the 2021 season, he played a significant role in UCLA's success defending the run as the Bruins allowed the second-fewest rushing yards per game in the conference (124.2/26th nationally). In his first season with UCLA in 2020, the Bruins defense led the Pac-12 in fewest rushing yards per carry allowed (3.6) and rated eighth in the nation while leading the league in sacks per game (3.29).
 
Prior to his time at UCLA, Nansen spent six seasons on the coaching staff at USC. In 2019, he guided the inside linebackers and was the defensive run game coordinator. From 2016-18, he held the title of assistant head coach while working with the linebackers and coordinating recruiting efforts.
 
In 2017, Nansen was named the Pac-12 Recruiter of the Year by 247Sports.com and helped guide the USC defense that ranked fourth nationally in red zone defense (.712) and fifth in sacks (3.3), while coaching linebacker Uchenna Nwosu, who was a first-team All-American and a second-round pick in the NFL draft.
 
Nansen's first two seasons at USC (2014-2015) were under Sarkisian and spent as the running backs coach and special teams coordinator. In 2015, tailbacks Ronald Jones II and Justin Davis each rushed for more than 900 yards, while Jones set the USC freshman season rushing record and became just the second true freshman to lead USC in season rushing. In 2014, tailback Javorius Allen made All-Pac-12 first team while rushing for 1,489 yards (the most by a Trojan since 2005) and he was an NFL fourth round draft pick. USC's special teams also returned two punts and two kickoffs for touchdowns.
 
Nansen spent the previous five seasons coaching for Sarkisian at Washington in a variety of roles from 2009-13. From 2012-13, he was the assistant head coach, running backs coach and special teams coordinator. In 2012 and 2013, Bishop Sankey put together back-to-back top-20 national rushing finishes. Sankey, who was a Doak Walker Award finalist in 2013, ranked fourth nationally in rushing yards per game (143.8) that season and the Huskies rated 15th-best in the country in rushing offense. In 2012, Sankey was 19th in the NCAA with a 110.7 rushing yards per game mark and went on to play in the NFL with the Tennessee Titans.
 
In 2011, Washington ranked No. 7 in the nation in net punting and No. 21 in punt return defense. In 2010, his special teams featured school record-setting punter Kiel Rasp, and in 2009, Nansen coached defensive end Daniel Te'o-Nesheim an NFL draftee who finished his career with a school-record 30 sacks.
 
Before coaching at Washington, Nansen spent five seasons from 2004-08 at Idaho, where he worked with the linebackers his first three years, defensive line the final two years and special teams each season.

He began his college coaching career as a graduate assistant at Louisville in 1999, working with the defensive line as the Cardinals earned a berth in the Humanitarian Bowl. His first full-time coaching job came in 2000 as the Montana State running backs coach, and he went on to coach three seasons (2001-03) at Idaho State over the cornerbacks and the secondary.
 
Nansen was a three-year letterman linebacker at Washington State and received his bachelor's degree in business administration in 1997. He and his wife, Hale, have three children – Makena Lei, Kealia Kei and Johnny Jr.

 

 

[Codaxx 5766]

 Bobby saying Barron is 50/50 to return. Saying he has an injured foot he has been playing on and it may hinder his ability to play in Senior Bowl and Combine. That would be huge for Texas 

[Ricky Butler 2730]

12 hours ago, bschoolprof said:

Is CDC going to get them a boat club membership?

Too soon?  

Resident blowhard from the cheap seats…

[DFW Horn 6124]

20 hours ago, jw4381 said:

Thompson’s effort on the first play is…sub par. Damn. 

Yes, we'll all miss Thompson's physicality in the secondary. I'll be shocked if a P5 picks him up.

Toughness is hard to teach.

[Tex Long 4401]

Going in, I thought we'd need to score 40+ to win. The tactical job for PK and his guys was to hold UW under 40, and they did exactly that. The secondary being unable to stop Penix was not much of a surprise to anyone, but was good enough to win... almost.

I said somewhere we lost the turnover battle 0-2, but the Defensive side of Special Teams did get a fumbled punt that we turned into points. So, 1-2 on turnover.

All things considered, you could say it was the Offense that let us down, between the lost fumbles and the red zone woes at the end. Yeah, the end game was an aggy-esque running out of time... but I dunno if having plenty of clock would have won it for us. Being able to run woulda helped, but as Darrell said, "Don't talk to me about shoulda-coulda-woulda... What shoulda happened is what did happen."

 

[Codaxx 5766]

2 minutes ago, Tex Long said:

Going in, I thought we'd need to score 40+ to win. The tactical job for PK and his guys was to hold UW under 40, and they did exactly that. The secondary being unable to stop Penix was not much of a surprise to anyone, but was good enough to win... almost.

I said somewhere we lost the turnover battle 0-2, but the Defensive side of Special Teams did get a fumbled punt that we turned into points. So, 1-2 on turnover.

All things considered, you could say it was the Offense that let us down, between the lost fumbles and the red zone woes at the end. Yeah, the end game was an aggy-esque running out of time... but I dunno if having plenty of clock would have won it for us. Being able to run woulda helped, but as Darrell said, "Don't talk to me about shoulda-coulda-woulda... What shoulda happened is what did happen."

 

Everyone is trying to explain why we lost and picking their favorite person, coach, or unit to blame. It’s pretty simple to me. Washington’s stars played like stars. Best offensive player in the field was Penix. Odunze was probably second. Washington OL was better than the Texas OL. Trice was far and away the best defensive player on the field. Jabbar Muhammad was the best player in the secondary on the field. Texas simply got out-played. It’s sucks to end the season playing mediocre, but it is what it is. 

[Tex Long 4401]

1 minute ago, Codaxx said:

Everyone is trying to explain why we lost and picking their favorite person, coach, or unit to blame. It’s pretty simple to me. Washington’s stars played like stars. Best offensive player in the field was Penix. Odunze was probably second. Washington OL was better than the Texas OL. Trice was far and away the best defensive player on the field. Jabbar Muhammad was the best player in the secondary on the field. Texas simply got out-played. It’s sucks to end the season playing mediocre, but it is what it is. 

If we're meaty ochre then UW is only marginally better, perhaps meatier ochre. 

More out-coached - or maybe out-scouted - than out-played. The tipped too-low throws over (well, not-quite over)  the lines were not accidental.

[Codaxx 5766]

5 minutes ago, Tex Long said:

If we're meaty ochre then UW is only marginally better, perhaps meatier ochre. 

More out-coached - or maybe out-scouted - than out-played. The tipped too-low throws over (well, not-quite over)  the lines were not accidental.

Washington coaches did better. Their players did better. Did you have Washington’s DL would out-play Texas on your bingo card? Did you have Texas would have a bunch of pre-snap penalties on the bingo card? Washington won more of the 1 on 1  battles, than Texas. Running to the internet to blame the QB, who put up 370 yards, or Coaches isn’t going fix that, but I guess it makes people feel better 

[Had Enough 2083]

Washington coaches did better. Their players did better. Did you have Washington’s DL would out-play Texas on your bingo card? Did you have Texas would have a bunch of pre-snap penalties on the bingo card? Washington won more of the 1 on 1  battles, than Texas. Running to the internet to blame the QB, who put up 370 yards, or Coaches isn’t going fix that, but I guess it makes people feel better 

Did Washington’s DL outplay our Ol?

Two sacks given up. 6 plus yards per rush but only 26 of them. Several of you have harped on defenses playing pass D over run D. I think UW certainly did that.

In spite of the grousing of the stat PFF had UW with 14 pressures on about 45 dropbacks. We had 20 on about 40.

I don’t think the UW DL outplayed our OL. But we did not emphasize what was working best.

[Dahobbs 17625]

6 minutes ago, Had Enough said:

I don’t think the UW DL outplayed our OL. But we did not emphasize what was working best.

Probably more fair to say that the fumbles prevented us from emphasizing what was working best. 

[BurntOrange&White 39934]

38 minutes ago, Had Enough said:

Did Washington’s DL outplay our Ol?

Two sacks given up. 6 plus yards per rush but only 26 of them. Several of you have harped on defenses playing pass D over run D. I think UW certainly did that.

In spite of the grousing of the stat PFF had UW with 14 pressures on about 45 dropbacks. We had 20 on about 40.

I don’t think the UW DL outplayed our OL. But we did not emphasize what was working best.

They definitely outplayed one side of it...

[Stunns38 3536]

Probably more fair to say that the fumbles prevented us from emphasizing what was working best. 

Not in the 1st qtr when Sark inexplicably went away from the run which was working.

[Tex Long 4401]

2 hours ago, Codaxx said:

Washington coaches did better. Their players did better. Did you have Washington’s DL would out-play Texas on your bingo card? Did you have Texas would have a bunch of pre-snap penalties on the bingo card? Washington won more of the 1 on 1  battles, than Texas. Running to the internet to blame the QB, who put up 370 yards, or Coaches isn’t going fix that, but I guess it makes people feel better 

So... out-coached AND out-played. Got it.

Here's the bottom line: regardless of UW's putatively huge advantages, it all came down to one series, and one last play. Somehow we came within one play of winning. 

Georgia vs FSU showed what out-coached and out-played really looks like. Texas vs Washington, not so much.

Do I feel better about the game because we came pretty fucking close to winning? You're goddamn right I do. Do you feel better about the game because you feel like everything about Washington's coaches and players was better than ours? I don't actually give a fuck, but you're welcome to your opinion.

 

 

 

[Bobby Layne 268]

3 hours ago, Tex Long said:

If we're meaty ochre then UW is only marginally better, perhaps meatier ochre. 

More out-coached - or maybe out-scouted - than out-played. The tipped too-low throws over (well, not-quite over)  the lines were not accidental.

Help me here. Which coach threw those low passes? 

[Thatguy 8751]

8 minutes ago, Bobby Layne said:

Help me here. Which coach threw those low passes? 

You put up over 300 and no turnovers its time to look elsewhere. Linemen are supposed to put a guy on his back as soon as he disengages to jump up and tip a ball. Its clear they watched film and saw opportunities to tip but so has everyone else all season. QE didn't just all the sudden change the way he throws. As someone said above, their guys outplayed our guys.

1) Our D-line was once again stout against the run but horrible getting pressure. Their D-line gave up chunks of yardage but came up with 2 opportunistic strips to negate the rush yardage given up. In pass rush they consistently got pressure and didn't allow QE to hold onto the ball all day long.

2) Their secondary made plays on balls in the air a few times during the game and we made none.

3) Their receivers consistently won their 1 on 1 battles. Ours were inconsistent in that regard

 

[Codaxx 5766]

2 hours ago, Had Enough said:

Did Washington’s DL outplay our Ol?

Two sacks given up. 6 plus yards per rush but only 26 of them. Several of you have harped on defenses playing pass D over run D. I think UW certainly did that.

In spite of the grousing of the stat PFF had UW with 14 pressures on about 45 dropbacks. We had 20 on about 40.

I don’t think the UW DL outplayed our OL. But we did not emphasize what was working best.

Washington basically conceded the run, so bravo. Texas could do what Washington allowed them to do. Christian Jones is probably still waking up in the middle of the night in cold sweats seeing Trice across from him. I think PFF’s 20 pressure is just dead wrong, but you can believe it if you want 

Edited January 7 by Codaxx

[Tex Long 4401]

Just now, Bobby Layne said:

Help me here. Which coach threw those low passes? 

Talking scouting, not playing. I reckon UW coaches noticed the sidearm motion we saw Quinn using so often, and had his guys going up when they couldn't get to him. Not overly rare response, but I don't think we saw it a lot during the season. 

[Codaxx 5766]

47 minutes ago, Tex Long said:

So... out-coached AND out-played. Got it.

Here's the bottom line: regardless of UW's putatively huge advantages, it all came down to one series, and one last play. Somehow we came within one play of winning. 

Georgia vs FSU showed what out-coached and out-played really looks like. Texas vs Washington, not so much.

Do I feel better about the game because we came pretty fucking close to winning? You're goddamn right I do. Do you feel better about the game because you feel like everything about Washington's coaches and players was better than ours? I don't actually give a fuck, but you're welcome to your opinion.

 

 

 

It came down to 1 series, because DeBoer managed the end of the game poorly. Let’s not pretend Washington didn’t control that game and you didn’t say “Holy Shit, I can’t believe Texas has a shot to win this” like 99% of the people watching that game.  

[Slacks 6821]

On 1/6/2024 at 2:31 AM, boilerhorn said:

In his career, Penix has had some big games.  

2020 - at IU - OC = Kalen DeBoer (present UW HC)
2020 - at #3 tosu - COVID, so no asshole fans in stadium - 27/51 - 491 yards - 5 TD, 1 INT in 42-35 loss.  TD passes 4, 63, 33, 16, and 56. Other passes of 68 and 51.
2020 -  #23 Michigan at IU - no fans - 30/50 - 342 yds - 3 TD, 0 INT in 38-21 win
2020 - at MSU - no fans - 25/38 - 320 yds - 2 TD, 2 INT in 24-0 win 

2021 at IU - was so-so.  DeBoer was at Fresno and Penix was injured for latter half of season.

2022 - at UW - DeBoer as HC
10 300+ yard games; 3 400+ yard games, 1 500+ yard game.  2nd lowest passing output was against Texas in Alamo bowl.  Lowest was against Colorado, who they beat by 35.

2023 - at UW - DeBoer as HC
10 300+ yard games; 4 400+ yard games.  Seemed to struggle against ASU, OSU, WSU.  

That all said, he did have a near perfect night against Texas.

Yep. He's been balling since he was at IU. I thought he was the best QB in CFB this year. 

If we win the conference and lose to the best QB in cfb every year, I'll accept it. 

[Tex Long 4401]

3 minutes ago, Codaxx said:

It came down to 1 series, because DeBoer managed the end of the game poorly. 

What??? Unpossible: I thought we were out-coached. 

[Slacks 6821]

3 minutes ago, Codaxx said:

It came down to 1 series, because DeBoer managed the end of the game poorly. Let’s not pretend Washington didn’t control that game and you didn’t say “Holy Shit, I can’t believe Texas has a shot to win this” like 99% of the people watching that game.  

One could argue it came down to two fumbles on the UW side of the field. Even if we only kick a FG on one of those drives and punt on the other, the game is different. 

[Tex Long 4401]

1 minute ago, Slacks said:

Yep. He's been balling since he was at IU. I thought he was the best QB in CFB this year. 

If we win the conference and lose to the best QB in cfb every year, I'll accept it. 

I saw a couple of Indiana games, mostly by accident, and Penix was close to the only thing they had going for them. I think deBoer was his OC, which would make sense.

[Codaxx 5766]

3 minutes ago, Slacks said:

One could argue it came down to two fumbles on the UW side of the field. Even if we only kick a FG on one of those drives and punt on the other, the game is different. 

Yes. Mistakes were prevalent all night. Why I keep saying Texas was out-played. Their stars played great games. Their team made less mistakes. This is just another example of that 

[Tex Long 4401]

2 minutes ago, Slacks said:

One could argue it came down to two fumbles on the UW side of the field. Even if we only kick a FG on one of those drives and punt on the other, the game is different. 

Yeah, we lost two fumbles there, one in Q3 and one near the beginning of Q4. Net -1 on turnovers, one in our own end that gave UW 3 points, and one in the red zone that cost us at least 3. 

[boilerhorn 1393]

I was mistaken.  DeBoer was only Penix's OC in 2019.  DeBoer was at Fresno for 20 and 21 season.  '20 was Penix's best season at IU.  His top WRs were Ty Fryfogle and Whop Philor.  Both have had cups of coffee in the NFL.  His TE was Peyton Hendershot, who appears on the Cowboys roster.  Hendershot was IU's top receiver in '21, but Penix was injured for around 1/2 of that season.

IU's offensive roster was not totally devoid of talent, but it's definitely beneath UW's roster.

[bschoolprof 6263]

Most of the clips online purporting to demonstrate why our pass defense struggled just show Penix being Penix and making incredible throws against decent to good coverage.  But there were critical plays that were over before they started that any average offense would have easily exploited. Take UW's critical 4th quarter drive after we pulled to within 6 and absolutely needed a stop; a score by them - any score - probably means the game is over.  On 2nd and 11, we give up an easy pitch and catch with our corner way off in bail coverage on the fucking TE (who motioned outside just before the snap, which is what Rod B was talking about in the postgame). Then on 3rd and 2, on a must stop play, we again roll with soft zone coverage.  There's a small chance 23 year old me could have made that throw.  Maybe Burke was supposed to drop in a zone, but that would have left the flat for the back wide open.  

This is the shit that's maddening. I'm not upset we got beat on these plays.  It's how we got beat.  Pussy ass shit in a do or die situation.  Upgrading personnel alone won't fix this.  

 

[Jkwellborn 6709]

You put up over 300 and no turnovers its time to look elsewhere. Linemen are supposed to put a guy on his back as soon as he disengages to jump up and tip a ball. Its clear they watched film and saw opportunities to tip but so has everyone else all season. QE didn't just all the sudden change the way he throws. As someone said above, their guys outplayed our guys.
1) Our D-line was once again stout against the run but horrible getting pressure. Their D-line gave up chunks of yardage but came up with 2 opportunistic strips to negate the rush yardage given up. In pass rush they consistently got pressure and didn't allow QE to hold onto the ball all day long.
2) Their secondary made plays on balls in the air a few times during the game and we made none.
3) Their receivers consistently won their 1 on 1 battles. Ours were inconsistent in that regard
 

They didn’t do shit on Blues fumble. He hit Helm and just lost the ball. It was a shitty call by the ref to award them the ball because there wasn’t some clear immediate recovery.

[Thatguy 8751]

58 minutes ago, Jkwellborn said:

They didn’t do shit on Blues fumble. He hit Helm and just lost the ball. It was a shitty call by the ref to award them the ball because there wasn’t some clear immediate recovery.

Very true, I mentally blocked out that it was a Mark Sanchez.

[Had Enough 2083]

What??? Unpossible: I thought we were out-coached. 

Watching the replay. So far we are outcoached.

And it’s certainly more common to attempt to run for a 1st to end the game than take a knee and leave time on the clock. Hard to fault one coach for a call the majority would make.

[troph 24856]

Y’all are all actually right …

21-21 at half. Put the ball on the carpet twice and one punt in the next 15 mins. That’s pretty much the game. If instead Texas is making plays then we are talking about two heavy weights going at it. Next chance was the last two drives. Texas didn’t make the plays. That’s pretty much it - two stretches of the game Texas had to make plays, they didn’t. To win it all you have to make the plays - all game long. For 15 in the 3rd and 7 mins in the 4th Texas didn’t. Toughness got Texas close but not close enough. 

[Had Enough 2083]

The ESPN rebroadcast cut out our first drive and also the back-to-back holding penalties on us.

No way in hell their DL outplayed our OL. Trice was good, but he was neutralized a fair amount too. Great call on 3rd and 5 to rush him up the middle in half 1. It shouldn’t have fooled us but did. His 2nd half sack was as much QB movement as blocking.

The Blue fumble was bs. They were blowing the hell out of the whistle before Trice showed up. Not an immediate recovery at all. Blue is an upper level talent though.

But the fumbles were huge. There were opportunities to overcome them though. Generally speaking, I feel like we played decently well. There wasn’t really anything good about the last 4 plays.

The disappointing matchup was their DBs versus our WRs. Their staff did a good job creating opportunities for their WRs, better than we did.