Hey PK -- What would you say you do here?

[Burt Macklin 18988]

4 minutes ago, D3zii said:

That’s definitely true and I did consider Ben Davis over Ogie, but the pass rush Ogie gives us was the edge plus Davis has been in and out so we really don’t know what he can do. But I do think situations matter. but I was doing a 4-2-5. 4 linemen, 2 backers and 5 DBs. But you are correct with the Running game by Baylor we would have to adjust. 
 

Davis isn’t a valid option really. 
The reality is we have 0 good DEs. Collins is a DT who’s athletic enough to play DE, but he’s not a perfect fit there. Other than him, we have nothing. So we either play 4 DTs and sacrifice pass rush or get run over in a 4 man DL with someone like Ovie who can rush the passer some. 
 

There’s going to be a sacrifice either way if we just play the simplified 4 man DL so many posters are pining for on here. 

Edited October 28, 2021 by Burt Macklin

[JBJ 3647]

1 hour ago, D3zii said:

I like Sweat and when he’s healthy and Fresh he’s a beast and our best DL imo. Coburn has been a disappointment so far, not because he’s new to the system but he’s playing high, getting pushed back and allow OL to get to the 2nd level and just not making the plays we know he can make. 

Coburn has been inconsistent and I feel he's playing too many snaps to maintain the level of play we want from him.

1 hour ago, D3zii said:

Say what you want about Ford not knowing the plays or BS, but the difference he made when Overshown went out was crazy, the speed at the position definitely showed and you can tell he’s starting to get developed, him and Overshown in the middle imo drastically helps this defense. Brockermyere hasn’t played his way out, it’s just Ford has played his way in, I think the coaches were just waiting for that lightbulb to go off. 

Ford looked good.  It's been Gbenda playing "hard" but out of position.

 

1 hour ago, D3zii said:

Now for the Secondary everyone is the same except for Corner and the SS. every-time Barron has played he’s showed me something, and I think he is a great player in the making so I’d put him at the other corner opposite of Jamison and id put Josh Thompson at SS over Foster. He played the position in High school, we know he will come up and hit but the plus is he can cover unlike Foster who has made plays but he definitely has hurt us there.  I’ve heard rumblings of this happening but nothing for sure, Jerrin Thompson hasn’t played up to what I thought but we haven’t seen Adimora and Schooler is a walking TD so we can’t really go with anyone else based off of performance. 

There's no good answer here.  You want your best corner playing corner even if he's an upgrade at safety.  But would Dunn or Barron really be much of a downgrade? Personally, I'm keeping it simple and just want to see Adimora get more snaps.

 

4 minutes ago, Burt Macklin said:

I think the best is playing the 5-2-4 we rolled out against Okie State since remaining teams like Baylor and KSU are very run heavy.

This is the real answer, though.

[satyanash 14276]

On 10/27/2021 at 11:58 AM, Hookem2147 said:

My bad, I was looking at the net yards gained before sacks were taken out. Corrected: TCU was at 227 rushing yards last year, OU at 208 rushing yards, OSU at 130 rushing yards, Kansas State at 274 and Colorado at 182. 

You're not fooling anyone.

4.5 ypc for TCU. 3.8 ypc for blOU. 2.5 ypc for Okie Lite. 6 ypc for KSU. 4.0 ypc for Colorado. Other than K-State which was a complete blowout those games range from decent to excellent in terms of run defense.

[satyanash 14276]

On 10/27/2021 at 11:28 AM, bschoolprof said:

The whole 'physicality' thing with Herman always applied more to the offense + Sam than to the defense.

Go watch the Big 12 title game we played against blOU. They absolutely whipped us physically.

[Codaxx 5588]

44 minutes ago, Burt Macklin said:

I’m assuming you’re proposing a 4 man  DL. If so, you can’t play Ovie there. He’s small, weak, and never keeps contain. He’s get tucking murdered. Right now, he can only play Sam or when covered by a DE, which is the problem. You then have to sacrifice a ton of pass rush with a 4 man line. There’s really no good options right now. 
 

I think the best is playing the 5-2-4 we rolled out against Okie State since remaining teams like Baylor and KSU are very run heavy. If you do that though, you have to move cook to safety. You can’t have your best player on the bench while playing BJ Foster or Schooler. Moving Josh Thompson to Safety would also be interesting. 

I was going to say the best look was the pure 3-4 that they rolled out vs OSU. The only issue I had with that look was Cook is on the sideline. I was proposing that Cook go to FS in that look, might be possible if they worked on him there during the bye week. Probably to big a move to be accomplished in a week. To the original poster, Barron needs to find more time on the field. 

[Duane Moore 5236]

1 hour ago, Burt Macklin said:

I’m assuming you’re proposing a 4 man  DL. If so, you can’t play Ovie there. He’s small, weak, and never keeps contain. He’s get tucking murdered. Right now, he can only play Sam or when covered by a DE, which is the problem. You then have to sacrifice a ton of pass rush with a 4 man line. There’s really no good options right now. 
 

I think the best is playing the 5-2-4 we rolled out against Okie State since remaining teams like Baylor and KSU are very run heavy. If you do that though, you have to move cook to safety. You can’t have your best player on the bench while playing BJ Foster or Schooler. Moving Josh Thompson to Safety would also be interesting. 

This seems to be where they are headed and may end up being our best option. Ojomo and Collins can definitely be DE’s in a 3-4 front, with Sweat/Coburn on the nose. Ovie and Thornton as the OLB’s and Overshown & Ford on the inside. That should be a good front against the run, but other than Byron Murphy, the drop off to the second team is pretty steep. 
 

in the back, we have to give some new guys a shot at safety, or move Anthony Cook to one of the spots. Schooler and Foster are just busts and Jerrin Thompson may get there some day, but he’s just no good right now. We’re getting nothing against the run or pass with the three we’ve  been trotting out there. 

[Lidig8r 1852]

12 hours ago, Eskimohorn said:

2000-2004 saw UT get destroyed by OU and many other teams with a pulse. 

 

Wait ... what?  Many other teams destroyed us between 2000 - 2004? Excluding OU, our losses were as follows:

2000 -- Stanford by 3; Oregon in the bowl game by 5;

2001 -- Colorado by 2 in the Big 12 champ game;

2002 -- Texas Tech by 4;

2003 -- Arkansas by 10; Washington State by 8 in the bowl game;

2004 -- No losses other than Ou

Besides ou, in those 5 years, we had a total of 6 losses, the worst one by 10 points, with an average of 5.3 points per loss.

Ouch... facts suck sometimes.

[Batteredfan 2]

Has there been any update on sorrell? Would like to see him get some more experience and PT given our pass rush and dline woes. 

[DanTheHorn 4893]

8 minutes ago, Lidig8r said:

Wait ... what?  Many other teams destroyed us between 2000 - 2004? Excluding OU, our losses were as follows:

2000 -- Stanford by 3; Oregon in the bowl game by 5;

2001 -- Colorado by 2 in the Big 12 champ game;

2002 -- Texas Tech by 4;

2003 -- Arkansas by 10; Washington State by 8 in the bowl game;

2004 -- No losses other than Ou

Besides ou, in those 5 years, we had a total of 6 losses, the worst one by 10 points, with an average of 5.3 points per loss.

Ouch... facts suck sometimes.

Well when your team is winning and is loaded with talent every loss destroys you inside maybe we can give @Eskimohorn a pass for having his facts all screwed up and just going by remembered emotion.

[Had Enough 2054]

Nm.

[Had Enough 2054]

You're not fooling anyone.
4.5 ypc for TCU. 3.8 ypc for blOU. 2.5 ypc for Okie Lite. 6 ypc for KSU. 4.0 ypc for Colorado. Other than K-State which was a complete blowout those games range from decent to excellent in terms of run defense.

Now maybe adjust for sacks. Do it like the nfl.

[dcar00 14023]

17 minutes ago, Had Enough said:

Now maybe adjust for sacks. Do it like the nfl.

all college games include sacks in the run total.  why would we adjust for the games that year?

[Had Enough 2054]

all college games include sacks in the run total.  why would we adjust for the games that year?

I’m just partly jacking around. But the argument
would be that our pass rush this year is no good so an adjustment for Joe Ossai is necessary.

My guess is there would not be substantial differences due to sacks from last year to this year.

From a stats perspective, I would lean to netting them against passing stats.

[D3zii 3637]

19 hours ago, JBJ said:

Coburn has been inconsistent and I feel he's playing too many snaps to maintain the level of play we want from him.

Ford looked good.  It's been Gbenda playing "hard" but out of position.

 

There's no good answer here.  You want your best corner playing corner even if he's an upgrade at safety.  But would Dunn or Barron really be much of a downgrade? Personally, I'm keeping it simple and just want to see Adimora get more snaps.

 

This is the real answer, though.

Barron has looked solid and other than that long play against OU so has Dunn I don’t think it would be a huge drop off if Thompson was moved to SS. Foster is up hurting us right now. He’s just like Coburn imo, to many snaps. 
 

[D3zii 3637]

15 hours ago, longhornmatt said:

SDE - Ojomo

WDE - Collins (ideally he would be SDE with a lean pass rusher at WDE, but Ovie is the only quick pass rusher we have and he hurts more than he helps by just charging up field on every play.  Collins is probably our best pass rusher overall, anyway)

Nose - Sweat

DT - Murphy 

WLB - Overshown (Gbenda due to injury)

MLB - Ford

CB - Jamison 

CB - Barron or Dunn

FS - Josh Thompson

SS - Dunn or Crawford

Nickel - Cook

 

Realistically, these position changes in the secondary should require these guys having trained there in the off-season, but our safeties are so subpar I would move the corners there anyway and just see what happens. 

I could see this on D-Line…instead of Dunn at SS leave him at CB. I would like to see Adimora and Coffey get some snaps at that FS position and put Josh at SS. He seems like the more physical player. 

[LTtxfan 48928]

1 hour ago, D3zii said:

I could see this on D-Line…instead of Dunn at SS leave him at CB. I would like to see Adimora and Coffey get some snaps at that FS position and put Josh at SS. He seems like the more physical player. 

Get Schooler and BJ off the field...   DAMN

[Had Enough 2054]

Get Schooler and BJ off the field...   DAMN

Bro, if we’re going that route, you’re forgetting one.


Thompson’s an idea. Better to have Cook back there than on the sideline.

[Gaffords 755]

On 10/19/2021 at 7:02 AM, Had Enough said:

OSU was 6-18 on 3rd downs. There was a screen that converted.

I’m not certain what you mean about “out matched” on a screen, but screens are always about fooling the defense. If you mean they had more bodies, then yeah. If you’re saying it’s talent issue, that’s flat out wrong.

Another conversion was a run. Cook was in the slot and bailed for the deep middle. If we’re playing straight up, it’s likely a stop. Somebody else could have made the play but their call versus our call was the biggest factor.

Screens are about fooling the D?   Somebody should have explained this to GDGD years back.   If any of his screens ever fooled OU with their 11 + defenders lined up two yards from where everyone knew the screen was going, it was a bad or dropped snap that ended up being a run right into the biggest mass of OU bodies we could find...  for a loss of 6

[Had Enough 2054]

Screens are about fooling the D?   Somebody should have explained this to GDGD years back.   If any of his screens ever fooled OU with their 11 + defenders lined up two yards from where everyone knew the screen was going, it was a bad or dropped snap that ended up being a run right into the biggest mass of OU bodies we could find...  for a loss of 6

Welp off the top of my head, I don’t ever remember Greg with a successful RB screen.

The go to first play of the game wide receiver hit never seemed to work either. Well until Worthy took one 75 yards to the house vs OU. Imagine the jubilation in Davisville. “I told you that shit was golden,” Greg Davis.

I did see a Kwame Cavil get a middle screen for 6 on the LHN. Think that was for 1987 or something like that. So maybe I do need to walk back a screen only working when you fool them everytime. If Greg can do it, anyone can.

[Gaffords 755]

On 10/19/2021 at 8:23 PM, dcar00 said:

why did we have to give up hundreds of yards rushing a game when it was obvious before the season that LB was a huge problem?  I get the DC's have a base scheme but got dam you are getting paid 1M+ for a fucking reason.

Pick your poison...  With this set of players it's either 400 on the ground or 600 in the air...  It seems they elect to give up the ground and hope someone will actually stop the runner before the endzone instead of praying our secondary (safeties) not getting taken to the woodshed continually.  I would hate to see what one of pirate's solid teams would do to this secondary / defense.

[Codaxx 5588]

3 hours ago, D3zii said:

I could see this on D-Line…instead of Dunn at SS leave him at CB. I would like to see Adimora and Coffey get some snaps at that FS position and put Josh at SS. He seems like the more physical player. 

I think this is backwards. If you move Thompson to safety, you put him at FS. His speed and ability to cover ground could allow PK to go back to his preferred cover 3 shell. 

[Duane Moore 5236]

1 hour ago, LTtxfan said:

Get Schooler and BJ off the field...   DAMN

Sadly, according to the Humidor they still seem to be the starters for this one. But now Adimora may be the 3rd one to get on the field instead of Jerrin Thompson. 

[XYZ 2154]

After that Benny-Hill-style play in which Schooler completely missed the tackle on the OU receiver and then proceeded to knock the fuck out of our cornerback, if that guy wasn’t benched…no, scratch that, not benched but dismissed from the team right then and there, I don’t know what to tell ya.

[Had Enough 2054]

After that Benny-Hill-style play in which Schooler completely missed the tackle on the OU receiver and then proceeded to knock the fuck out of our cornerback, if that guy wasn’t benched…no, scratch that, not benched but dismissed from the team right then and there, I don’t know what to tell ya.

You mean Tech right? What other stuff do you not remember correctly in your drunken stupors?

He was badass when we played Coastal Carolina in game 1.

[XYZ 2154]

2 hours ago, Had Enough said:

You mean Tech right? What other stuff do you not remember correctly in your drunken stupors?

He was badass when we played Coastal Carolina in game 1.

Yes, Tech.

[dcar00 14023]

2 hours ago, Gaffords said:

Pick your poison...  With this set of players it's either 400 on the ground or 600 in the air...  It seems they elect to give up the ground and hope someone will actually stop the runner before the endzone instead of praying our secondary (safeties) not getting taken to the woodshed continually.  I would hate to see what one of pirate's solid teams would do to this secondary / defense.

I'm sure that was the thought against OSU after OU the air disaster but both OU and OSU still managed to run on us for both scheme and personnel reasons.

I'm still of the DKR mind on this one even though the game is different now with short passing game and completion rates much higher.  OU had to make some miraculous catches so I'd just have to hope luck is on our side if we give up the pass to stop the run.

we'll see what the bye week brings.

[taybo20 2815]

On 10/28/2021 at 1:12 PM, Burt Macklin said:

Davis isn’t a valid option really. 
The reality is we have 0 good DEs. Collins is a DT who’s athletic enough to play DE, but he’s not a perfect fit there. Other than him, we have nothing. So we either play 4 DTs and sacrifice pass rush or get run over in a 4 man DL with someone like Ovie who can rush the passer some. 
 

There’s going to be a sacrifice either way if we just play the simplified 4 man DL so many posters are pining for on here. 

I think the pass rush sucks regardless of who is on the field, so for many of us we’d rather take the heavier 4 man front to stop getting absolutely destroyed on the ground. It’s incredibly demoralizing to just get run on. I’m sure the other side is true if they just pass for 500 yards lol. But at least there is the chance of an incompletion, or interception.  

[Burt Macklin 18988]

23 minutes ago, taybo20 said:

I think the pass rush sucks regardless of who is on the field, so for many of us we’d rather take the heavier 4 man front to stop getting absolutely destroyed on the ground. It’s incredibly demoralizing to just get run on. I’m sure the other side is true if they just pass for 500 yards lol. But at least there is the chance of an incompletion, or interception.  

My point is just run a 4 man line isn’t the answer. We don’t have the DL talent for it last year. There variations, like the 5-2 that give us a better combination of run stopping and pass rush. 

[Codaxx 5588]

35 minutes ago, taybo20 said:

I think the pass rush sucks regardless of who is on the field, so for many of us we’d rather take the heavier 4 man front to stop getting absolutely destroyed on the ground. It’s incredibly demoralizing to just get run on. I’m sure the other side is true if they just pass for 500 yards lol. But at least there is the chance of an incompletion, or interception.  

PK went to a base 3-4 vs OSU. That is a solid run front. Put 5 guys on the LOS, like it was 2010. I am guessing K is going to go deeper in that look this week. 

[Yesh 904]

Does the 5-2 ever require one of the OLBs to cover a slot WR or RB out of the backfield?

[JBJ 3647]

1 minute ago, Yesh said:

Does the 5-2 ever require one of the OLBs to cover a slot WR or RB out of the backfield?

Of course.

 

[dcar00 14023]

6 minutes ago, JBJ said:

Of course.

 

not if PK would just play a 5-2-5.  so easy....

[Codaxx 5588]

57 minutes ago, Yesh said:

Does the 5-2 ever require one of the OLBs to cover a slot WR or RB out of the backfield?

This is literally an out dated defense that PK has dusted off. Don’t tell the general public, but the Big 12 doesn’t have great offenses. QB play is pretty bad. A solid passing team would shred this defense up 

[dcar00 14023]

1 hour ago, Codaxx said:

This is literally an out dated defense that PK has dusted off. Don’t tell the general public, but the Big 12 doesn’t have great offenses. QB play is pretty bad. A solid passing team would shred this defense up 

Eagle Front...

[Burt Macklin 18988]

1 hour ago, Codaxx said:

This is literally an out dated defense that PK has dusted off. Don’t tell the general public, but the Big 12 doesn’t have great offenses. QB play is pretty bad. A solid passing team would shred this defense up 

This is a perfectly good defense against run heavy teams like most we’ll play the rest of this year. Modern offense is shifting back to running heavier packages now that defenses have caught up to the spread. Defenses have to react. 

[Gaffords 755]

On 10/27/2021 at 7:00 PM, westexhorn said:

team is just soft and docile. 

I'll assume a decade of taking it in the can would have that effect on many of chocolate starfish.

[Codaxx 5588]

1 hour ago, Burt Macklin said:

This is a perfectly good defense against run heavy teams like most we’ll play the rest of this year. Modern offense is shifting back to running heavier packages now that defenses have caught up to the spread. Defenses have to react. 

Good QB would carve up a 3-4. I am not saying it isn’t useful vs certain teams, but there is a reason nickel has become the predominant base defense. It’s just feels like going back in time. 

Edited October 29, 2021 by Codaxx

[Codaxx 5588]

1 hour ago, dcar00 said:

Eagle Front...

I was thinking 3-4 eagle front for Baylor for the wide zone. 

[JBJ 3647]

1 hour ago, Codaxx said:

Good QB would carve up a 3-4. I am not saying it isn’t useful vs certain teams, but there is a reason nickel has become the predominant base defense. It’s just feels like going back in time. 

Chip Kelly created this defense.  That was such a long time ago, though.

Edited October 30, 2021 by JBJ

[Gaffords 755]

3 hours ago, Codaxx said:

Good QB would carve up a 3-4. I am not saying it isn’t useful vs certain teams, but there is a reason nickel has become the predominant base defense. It’s just feels like going back in time. 

When your defense struggles to either stop the run or the pass, you are looking at a shit season season with a couple or more losses to teams you should have beat on paper.  But when your team struggles to stop the run and the pass...  Yeah...  trainwreck...

3rd and 7? run-pass? Flip a coin, because that's what their OC is doing. There's about the same odds of getting a first down either way.  Rush none rush 5, equals to about the same pressure... 

Blitz? Oh yeah, we've got that fuck!  Dammit the QB  used a two inch hip juke to avoid the fingertips of the blitzing fool that just ran past...  At times I can only picture our would be tacklers sweeping ice in front of their ball carrier...

But the most infuriating thing of it all is, as inept as the defense has been, if we would have made only half the plays where the defensive call put someone (at times more) in the right spot to make the play, we would be a one loss team with a huge win over a  high ranked OU, and wins over two other ranked opponents with Baylor about to become our 4th ranked bitch...

I'm not ready to throw this coaching staff down the disposal yet, but there is zero excuse to be had for allowing either blowhoma schools back into the game just to make it close, and almost unforgivable to let them actually pull out wins...

It all starts and stops with the defensive line and I'm not sure we have any combination of players to fix that this year...  Maybe-hopefully stop the bleed, but this isn't an issue that can be fixed "overnight".  It'll take some serious portal voodoo, juco magic, and possibly the sacrifice of a virgin or ten to the recruitment gods to get the bodies in next year who can make an impact right out of the gate.

 

[Codaxx 5588]

13 hours ago, JBJ said:

Chip Kelly created this defense.  That was such a long time ago, though.

What? Chip didn’t create any defense. 3-4 had been run for long time. Everyone in the Parcells tree has been running a variation for decades. Pete Carrol ran this in the glory years of USC. 

[Codaxx 5588]

10 hours ago, Gaffords said:

When your defense struggles to either stop the run or the pass, you are looking at a shit season season with a couple or more losses to teams you should have beat on paper.  But when your team struggles to stop the run and the pass...  Yeah...  trainwreck...

3rd and 7? run-pass? Flip a coin, because that's what their OC is doing. There's about the same odds of getting a first down either way.  Rush none rush 5, equals to about the same pressure... 

Blitz? Oh yeah, we've got that fuck!  Dammit the QB  used a two inch hip juke to avoid the fingertips of the blitzing fool that just ran past...  At times I can only picture our would be tacklers sweeping ice in front of their ball carrier...

But the most infuriating thing of it all is, as inept as the defense has been, if we would have made only half the plays where the defensive call put someone (at times more) in the right spot to make the play, we would be a one loss team with a huge win over a  high ranked OU, and wins over two other ranked opponents with Baylor about to become our 4th ranked bitch...

I'm not ready to throw this coaching staff down the disposal yet, but there is zero excuse to be had for allowing either blowhoma schools back into the game just to make it close, and almost unforgivable to let them actually pull out wins...

It all starts and stops with the defensive line and I'm not sure we have any combination of players to fix that this year...  Maybe-hopefully stop the bleed, but this isn't an issue that can be fixed "overnight".  It'll take some serious portal voodoo, juco magic, and possibly the sacrifice of a virgin or ten to the recruitment gods to get the bodies in next year who can make an impact right out of the gate.

 

I have 0 issues with this defense. I just commenting that it is funny to see it coming back. I have said they need to stop the run first and foremost. Not to mention QB play is generally poor in the Big 12 this year, so it fits 

[Codaxx 5588]

16 minutes ago, Codaxx said:

What? Chip didn’t create any defense. 3-4 had been run for long time. Everyone in the Parcells tree has been running a variation for decades. Pete Carrol ran this in the glory years of USC. 

Only difference between this and those defenses is PK is running more cover 4 compared to those defenses

[JBJ 3647]

56 minutes ago, Codaxx said:

What? Chip didn’t create any defense. 3-4 had been run for long time. Everyone in the Parcells tree has been running a variation for decades. Pete Carrol ran this in the glory years of USC. 

And various 4-3s were run for decades before Jimmy Johnson.  But Jimmy and Tom Landry invented very different defenses.

Our 3-4 doesn't come from ancient history.  It's from the early 2010s.  It faced both Mike Leach and David Shawthe year it was created.

Edited October 30, 2021 by JBJ

[alphahorn 1637]

Just don't want to see the killer B's on the field AT ALL

 

[Codaxx 5588]

31 minutes ago, JBJ said:

And various 4-3s were run for decades before Jimmy Johnson.  But Jimmy and Tom Landry invented very different defenses.

Our 3-4 doesn't come from ancient history.  It's from the early 2010s.  It faced both Mike Leach and David Shawthe year it was created.

That is a long time ago. The guy you were referencing was Nick Aliotti at Oregon, who was running 3-4 at Oregon staring in 1999. 3-4 defense creation was credited to Bud Wilkerson. Chuck Fairbanks credited for bringing it to the NFL. Like I said Parcells and Belicheck tree have been running it for decades. Not sure why people care about when it was devised. All I care is that it works today. The only real difference is PK runs more cover 4 behind it compared to someone like Carrol, who ran a cover 3 

Edited October 30, 2021 by Codaxx

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

I got nothing when it comes to the X’s and O’s but we got some Jimmy’s and joe’s that have no business seeing the field at a big-time program. It’s pretty depressing.

[USNALonghorn 5024]

This isn’t a 3 man vs 4 man front debate for defending the spread offense as an average P5 team. This is a debate about what works better for our current roster. If we were stacked with linebacker talent, I’m sure a 3 man front would work far better than 4. But we’re not. Our linebacker talent is shittier than our below average defensive line. 
 

Maybe once we start tapping into the SEC linebacker talent pool, we’ll be able to run a dominant 3-4 scheme. We’re at least 2-3 recruiting cycles away from that.

[Newdoc 3429]

Pk in way over his head today.

[satyanash 14276]