Hey PK -- What would you say you do here?

[LTtxfan 48962]

1 hour ago, BurntOrange&White said:

Allegedly Lake and PK aren’t on the best of terms. 

 

 

[Atticus 3920]

6 minutes ago, Had Enough said:

 

 

 

We are small, but that wasn’t really the issue in this game. They had 17 3rd downs. We only had 11. They converted 11, us 7. That’s not to say our run D was good. But we lost because we couldn’t stop 3rd down. And the passing game.

Every 3rd down they had was an attempted pass except the Qb sneak. First one of the game was a QB scramble. Some were 3rd and short; some were 3rd and long. We stopped them because they didn’t complete it on 3rd. (Not sure in overtime as the game play by play was not showing)

Their QB was damn good and was the difference in the game.

 

 

 

Their QB made the easy plays we presented to him. He wasn't good, we just never really made him uncomfortable or challenged him to make plays downfield.

Other teams regularly challenge Casey to make plays downfield with success, we played soft coverage and gave up easy short completions. That doesn't account for the front getting pushed around by Kansas though. Bad fucking marriage and the players don't wanna play in it.

[FunkSoulBrother 923]

1 hour ago, Codaxx said:

Few things. Sark certainly screwed up hiring a defensive staff before he hired his DC. That is a sh!tty situation for a Coordinator. That fuck up is on Sark and he knows it.  Sark has to make changes on the defense. He is either going to replace PK or fix his mistake on hiring Joseph and Gideon. Something has to change. It is in Sark's court now. IF he retains PK, then getting Jimmy Lake has to be priority #1. I honestly cant figure out what went wrong with PK. I dont think he just suddenly turned into a total moron, but at the same time his game plans have been epically bad. That is before you factor in poor execution. It either he is a complete fraud or he doesnt trust the secondary. I dont which one is  correct. Either way something has to change

Yea unfortunately I'm leaning towards predicting Sark keeping PK and will let a few other defensive coordinators be the sacrificial lambs(Choate, Joseph) and offer the potential replacements the incentive of co-DC title. It'll be similar to what Strong did after his first season where instead of firing Watson he just made Norvell co-OC.

[Had Enough 2056]

No. This is unacceptable. He was never in duress and we didn’t scheme against the option and screen game Kansas was running. We allowed him to over-perform because the defense was out of position and failing to put any fucking effort into the game. There’s only about 2 people on that side of the ball that give a shit. 

What you are saying may be true, but he was damn good. That doesn’t mean he will ever be again.

He had timely runs. Completed 70% which included a drop on a very nice downfield throw. The 3rd down thrown to convert on their final TD in regulation was a very good play.

In regulation the only had 1 drive with no 3rd down conversions. That same drive only had runs. Every other drive required the QB to make a play or two. In spite of our inadequacies, he did.

[Codaxx 5592]

3 minutes ago, FunkSoulBrother said:

Yea unfortunately I'm leaning towards predicting Sark keeping PK and will let a few other defensive coordinators be the sacrificial lambs(Choate, Joseph) and offer the potential replacements the incentive of co-DC title. It'll be similar to what Strong did after his first season where instead of firing Watson he just made Norvell co-OC.

I think it is bit different. This is more of a Manny Diaz thing. Where a guy came in with a good reputation and it unraveled. Watson never had a great reputation. Diaz did lead Texas to #1 defense in year 1, #5 in year 2, and he was fired after 2 games and Robinson led the defense to #6 in total defense in the Big 12. I prefer a new direction, but no matter what happens changes need to be made. It isnt up to me, so no sense in kicking and screaming. 

[dcar00 14030]

24 minutes ago, MonkeyDoughnut said:

what about all the times they played SEC and BIG10 teams during those years with similar results though?

fair enough.  maybe they did do well against SEC and Big10.  which ones did they play in his years as the DC?  how did they do?

I would suppose that 75% of his games were against pac12.

[BurntOrange&White 39614]

24 minutes ago, Atticus said:

Their QB made the easy plays we presented to him. He wasn't good, we just never really made him uncomfortable or challenged him to make plays downfield.

Other teams regularly challenge Casey to make plays downfield with success, we played soft coverage and gave up easy short completions. That doesn't account for the front getting pushed around by Kansas though. Bad fucking marriage and the players don't wanna play in it.

I don’t think elite DL want to play in a defense like that. 

[Had Enough 2056]

Their QB made the easy plays we presented to him. He wasn't good, we just never really made him uncomfortable or challenged him to make plays downfield.
Other teams regularly challenge Casey to make plays downfield with success, we played soft coverage and gave up easy short completions. That doesn't account for the front getting pushed around by Kansas though. Bad fucking marriage and the players don't wanna play in it.

He was good. We can shit on our own team but give credit where credits due.

Remember that 3rd down throw to Worthy us down 7 in the 4th? The one we didn’t connect on and the drive ended. You still gotta convert the easy ones.

[dcar00 14030]

28 minutes ago, Atticus said:

Their QB made the easy plays we presented to him. He wasn't good, we just never really made him uncomfortable or challenged him to make plays downfield.

Other teams regularly challenge Casey to make plays downfield with success, we played soft coverage and gave up easy short completions. That doesn't account for the front getting pushed around by Kansas though. Bad fucking marriage and the players don't wanna play in it.

I agree we made it easy for the Kansas QB because of PK but Sark's offense is predicated on making plays downfield.  they aren't really challenging Casey to do that, it's what Sark wants him to do.

[Codaxx 5592]

8 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

I don’t think elite DL want to play in a defense like that. 

Bama doesnt have a problem with getting elite DTs to 2 gap. PK was in Washington for Danny Shelton and Vita Vea to get drafted in the 1st round. 

[FunkSoulBrother 923]

15 minutes ago, Codaxx said:

I think it is bit different. This is more of a Manny Diaz thing. Where a guy came in with a good reputation and it unraveled. Watson never had a great reputation. Diaz did lead Texas to #1 defense in year 1, #5 in year 2, and he was fired after 2 games and Robinson led the defense to #6 in total defense in the Big 12. I prefer a new direction, but no matter what happens changes need to be made. It isnt up to me, so no sense in kicking and screaming. 

The similarities I'm referring to are how Watson and PK are handled after year 1 not so much of their reputation(or lack thereof) prior to coming to Texas.

[Codaxx 5592]

Just now, FunkSoulBrother said:

The similarities I'm referring to are how Watson and PK are handled after year 1 not so much of their reputation(or lack thereof) prior to coming to Texas.

I get that. My point was just that PK has a very good reputation and this year is an anomaly based on his track record. Watson had a bad track record to start with. 

I'll tell you story that will make you happy. One of the reason that Watson had to get new position coaches, was because Les Koennig tried to kick his ass in practice and had to be held back by the players. 

[GreenspointTexas 9559]

1 minute ago, Codaxx said:

I get that. My point was just that PK has a very good reputation and this year is an anomaly based on his track record. Watson had a bad track record to start with. 

I'll tell you story that will make you happy. One of the reason that Watson had to get new position coaches, was because Les Koennig tried to kick his ass in practice and had to be held back by the players. 

Lol holy shit

[Azbadlands 109]

1 hour ago, dcar00 said:

PAC12

That's the problem.  Are their any consistently good coaching staffs in the PAC?  Petersen is good, I guess, but PK wasn't building his resume' against Petersen.  I wonder how PK did against Leach when he coached in the PAC?

[Atticus 3920]

2 minutes ago, Azbadlands said:

That's the problem.  Are their any consistently good coaching staffs in the PAC?  Petersen is good, I guess, but PK wasn't building his resume' against Petersen.  I wonder how PK did against Leach when he coached in the PAC?

Wazzu, Oregon, and USC were regularly ranked in the top 25 during his tenure there.

[Rockethorn1978 6061]

2 hours ago, horngasm22 said:

I am astounded that PK has not been fired.

my, god....wtf do you have to do to be held accountable?

Well when you have a built in excuse that it’s the players like you’ve seen regurgitated on here then that’s a great excuse you can fall back on and I’m guaranteeing that’s what sark is gonna use. The roster sucks, the players blow and don’t care, etc. 

my biggest issue is if you know bj roster sucks and doesn’t give a fuck and basically sabotaging the defense and playing bad on purpose then why do you continue to trot him out and play him the entire game? Who’s job is it to play or not play guys you say doesn’t fucking care? What do you have to lose playing a lesser talent that’s behind these guys? We might lose? Well that’s already happening.

[Codaxx 5592]

2 minutes ago, Rockethorn1978 said:

Well when you have a built in excuse that it’s the players like you’ve seen regurgitated on here then that’s a great excuse you can fall back on and I’m guaranteeing that’s what sark is gonna use. The roster sucks, the players blow and don’t care, etc. 

my biggest issue is if you know bj roster sucks and doesn’t give a fuck and basically sabotaging the defense and playing bad on purpose then why do you continue to trot him out and play him the entire game? Who’s job is it to play or not play guys you say doesn’t fucking care? What do you have to lose playing a lesser talent that’s behind these guys? We might lose? Well that’s already happening.

I am with this. You had Thompson and Schooler out there. Those are 6th year guys, there are more but those guys literally cant play next year (I know Thompson is now out). . IF your defense is bad and you are in year 1 of your contract, why are you playing anyone that isnt coming back next year. You might as well let younger guys take their lumps the last few games when the season goals are no longer attainable. 

[MonkeyDoughnut 10139]

 

[BurntOrange&White 39614]

2 minutes ago, Codaxx said:

I am with this. You had Thompson and Schooler out there. Those are 6th year guys, there are more but those guys literally cant play next year (I know Thompson is now out). . IF your defense is bad and you are in year 1 of your contract, why are you playing anyone that isnt coming back next year. You might as well let younger guys take their lumps the last few games when the season goals are no longer attainable. 

Yup, makes no sense at this point to continue playing seniors or juniors you plan to no longer be a part of the team

Edited November 15, 2021 by BurntOrange&White

[Rockethorn1978 6061]

13 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

Yup, makes no sense at this point to continue playing seniors or juniors you plan to no longer be a part of the team

How about just don’t keep playing guys that everyone keeps saying doesn’t give af or is a quitter? I mean how do coaches not get blamed for continuing to play said quitters or sabotagers

[Pig Bellmont 8691]

18 minutes ago, MonkeyDoughnut said:

 

Wish casting 

[Eskimohorn 5613]

We are small, but that wasn’t really the issue in this game. They had 17 3rd downs. We only had 11. They converted 11, us 7. That’s not to say our run D was good. But we lost because we couldn’t stop 3rd down. And the passing game.

Every 3rd down they had was an attempted pass except the Qb sneak. First one of the game was a QB scramble. Some were 3rd and short; some were 3rd and long. We stopped them because they didn’t complete it on 3rd. (Not sure in overtime as the game play by play was not showing)

Their QB was damn good and was the difference in the game.

Lots of 3rd and shorts, where it was LOL, we did not have the numbers in the box to stop it. It was a miracle we stopped that BS quick snap 4th down conversion.

[Had Enough 2056]

 

TCUs defense is shittier than ours. Their players and systems have been in place. Now maybe Patterson been gone for a few weeks, but his influence remains. And they weren’t exactly performing up to standards while he was there.


At a high level, PK makes as much sense to retain him as bringing on Patterson. You know one year does not a trend make. I’m not saying retain PK. I am saying Patterson is as questionable for several reasons. Age, unknown want to at this point, recent success.

[Had Enough 2056]

Lots of 3rd and shorts, where it was LOL, we did not have the numbers in the box to stop it. It was a miracle we stopped that BS quick snap 4th down conversion.

Guess I don’t follow you.

3rd and short (1-3yards) - 5 plays. This does not include the 4th down run.
3rd and medium (4-9 yards). - 11 plays
3rd and long (10+ yards) - 1 play. Last drive when trying to run clock. They ran on 3rd to run clock.

Converted 11-17. One designed run out of those attempts. We didn’t have numbers to stop the sneak. I get that. But the original point of a big lineup was inconsequential on the money down cause they didn’t run it. No matter what lineup we had didn’t put much pressure on the QB. But maybe that was the case and I didn’t notice.

It is odd they didn’t run it even on short yardage downs. Not getting them in long yardage situations hurt.

Not a huge deal. I like numbers so I’ll look a little deeper when things are brought up.

[BurntOrange&White 39614]

1 hour ago, Rockethorn1978 said:

How about just don’t keep playing guys that everyone keeps saying doesn’t give af or is a quitter? I mean how do coaches not get blamed for continuing to play said quitters or sabotagers

I think we’re talking about the same players. 

[ClubWhatever 12087]

18 hours ago, Eskimohorn said:

Lots of 3rd and shorts, where it was LOL, we did not have the numbers in the box to stop it. It was a miracle we stopped that BS quick snap 4th down conversion.

Go watch Washington from the past few years.  He did the same shit there on short yardage situations.   It’s just who he is and it’s not changing. 

[satyanash 14281]

Ian Boyd: Diagnosing the defensive disease

Quote

Chris Ash inherited a really tough situation in 2020. Tom Herman was in a “Big 12 title or bust” season as a coach and his old colleague Chris Ash, was entrusted with converting a 3-down defense into a 4-down with a fundamentally poor back seven in a make or break year, during a pandemic. No better time to make wholesale adjustments than in a pressure-packed year with massive time constraints. What a terrible job.

He handled it about as well as could be expected. The Longhorns focused on loading up to stop the run and so long as the opponent couldn’t make them pay through the air, they were an okay defense. Operating today with the knowledge of the Pete Kwiatkowski-guided counterfactual of 2021, it would be fascinating to see how Ash would have handled the challenges of this season. Here were some of the big ones:

- Caden Sterns, Joseph Ossai, Ta’Quon Graham, and Chris Brown all left. Pretty normal losses for a college team, but certainly those guys weren’t bad football players.

- The remaining back-up Edge was walk-on Jett Bush, who’d been pressed into service after playing inside linebacker previously.

- Juwan Mitchell, the closest thing Texas had to an experienced inside linebacker, quickly transferred out. The other inside linebacker DeMarvion Overshown, who hardly counted as an experienced inside backer after moving to the position from safety and without a full fall camp or any spring ball, missed much of the 2021 offseason as well with an injury.

Heading into the offseason one of my biggest questions about the defense was how they would structure the front, under any defensive coordinator, without a scholarship edge player? Could they find a good transfer? Make a position change? Recruit and start a freshman? After that, inside linebacker was also an obvious problem spot. The program was getting a badly needed restart.

Steve Sarkisian’s solutions

The first thing Steve Sarkisian did to address the Texas defense was to go add Ray Thornton through the transfer portal. As far as Joseph Ossai replacements go, not a perfect solution, but it certainly helped. Later he’d follow this up by adding Ovie Oghoufo and Ben Davis from other playoff programs. Next was to hire multiple defensive staffers, including a pair of defensive back coaches in Notre Dame’s Terry Joseph and Ole Miss’ Blake Gideon. “Who does he have in mind for the defensive coordinator job? Must be a linebacker coach?” So went the reasoning.

It’s not totally clear what happened here, but eventually they landed on Pete Kwiatkowski which definitely wasn’t the initial plan. After a plan to pair him with Mike Stoops as the inside linebackers’ coach was thwarted, PK was able to choose Montana State head coach Jeff Choate to help him try and turn one of the league’s worst linebacker corps into a 3-4 defense. If the results of this staff have appeared dysfunctional or poorly tied together, imagine what might have been had Stoops been in Choate’s role, molding the inside backers and communicating with the defense on the sideline.

From there, it was primarily going to be on the staff to work out solutions. Sarkisian is calling plays on offense so however involved he might be on defense, it was always going to come down to how well PK was able to coordinate the staff and roster he found waiting.
Pete Kwiatkowski’s new challenge

For nearly the entirety of his tenure as a coach, PK was under the highly detailed head coaching leadership of Chris Petersen. He worked with two different defensive back coaches over 11 years as a defensive coordinator under Petersen at Boise State and Washington, Marcel Yates (two years) and Jimmy Lake (nine years).

The majority of this period was spent playing Lake’s single-high coverages, which played well with the 2-4-5 defensive approach. The trick with the 2-4-5 and using true outside linebackers on the edges is when the offense uses a tight end. They can create an extra gap inside your two edges aren’t going to be fitting, so a defensive back has to get in on the action. Which one? Well, this question can present either opportunities or challenges for a defense. Here’s how the picture has looked for much of the season.

Texas is in the “tite” front, a modern favorite, with an Edge as the outside linebacker to the boundary and the Star (nickel) as the outside linebacker to the field. The Jack outside linebacker is playing as a true D-lineman across from the right tackle rather than playing contain in the 2-4-5. Texas has mixed in the 2-4-5 fairly often but the 3-down structures have been much more common because the lack of edge players on the roster and the talent of sophomore Alfred Collins necessitated he play Jack. They’ve used him mostly as a 4i-technique or a 5-technique defensive end.

The Star ends up serving a lot in run support from outside contain, but he first has to mind the quick inside pass option from the slot, the quick outside pass is more or less conceded but field cornerback does have eyes to close on it.

The inside linebackers need to read keys and fit the appropriate inside gaps, and the “Buck” (boundary outside linebacker) is containing outside-in from the short side. The safeties? They’ve spent most of the season backpedaling every snap and keeping the ball in front of them with the strong safety in the boundary occasionally playing flat-footed from around 10 yards depth. For comparison’s sake, here’s how things tended to look at Washington.

There was less coverage disguise, the Huskies were more consistent about walking down a safety to create an overhang to either side of the formation and then had a deep safety backpedaling from 15-yards deep at the hint of a pass. The field slot from Oregon has the nickel across from him, the tight end to the boundary has the strong safety walked down over him.

Terry Joseph and Blake Gideon came from very different defensive backgrounds than Jimmy Lake. Gideon played and coached for Will Muschamp for nearly all of his early college football experiences, and they would play in a two-high shell before either staying there or rotating into a single-high coverage. Joseph, who actually coordinates the back end of the 2021 Longhorn defense, generally had the Irish starting and ending in a two-high shell.

Look more familiar? This is how Texas has spent most of 2021. Against Kansas last Saturday they finally came a lot closer to mirroring Notre Dame’s safety depth with Brenden Schooler and Jerrin Thompson/B.J. Foster playing a little tighter and not backpedaling at the snap. What killed the Longhorns against Kansas was a series of assignment errors and contain issues. For instance, Kansas’ basic outside zone runs…

In the first example, Texas is late to recognize what’s happening and they don’t restrict the pathway of the run at all. They’re also playing a technique at end which requires a fast fill by the middle linebacker to the edge, but instead he slow plays it and is caught by the tackle. The edge-setting from the outside linebacker does him no favors and there’s a huge crease in the running back’s natural path.

The second example is a good example of how Texas has struggled to master the late safety spins inherent in the Muschamp system. When you rotate late you’d really better be playing on a string as a unit because your safeties’ initial steps are first to find the correct position. In this instance the late nickel blitz is awful in contain, the middle linebacker is once more caught by the tackle, and you have the easiest stretch run in history… again.

This is why the staff have clearly been terrified at the prospect of playing the D-line more aggressively and risking the chance of blockers making it to the linebackers. The linebackers aren’t decisive enough to make plays when they have to deal with blockers and most of them, the two starters in particular, aren’t particularly good at playing blocks. On both of these runs you can see Texas D-linemen shooting through gaps on the backside but it amounting to nothing. The late spinning safeties are of no use either.

Texas’ play against the play-action off the stretch runs was even worse. Kansas routinely had receivers running open in the red zone on play-action, including on the fateful two-point conversion.

Obviously Texas isn’t playing well as a defensive unit. There’s a lot of different philosophies at work and they have yet to be combined into a coherent whole. The lack of good, experienced off ball or edge linebackers has frustrated any efforts to properly channel runs into the right lanes, Consequently, the D-line has to do more of the heavy lifting in terms of directing runs, which prevents an athletic and talented unit from being more aggressive. Meanwhile the secondary is playing a lot of bend don’t break tactics with hesitation and lack of precision, which usually keeps them from arriving in time to help manage the load up front or clean up errors.

By the way, as a multiple front defense the Longhorns are routinely altering who has help and from where when it comes to stopping the run. Washington’s simplicity in the defensive backfield was very clearly beneficial when it came to blending with PK’s multiple fronts. The Husky front could mix up different looks and stunts all day and the secondary had simple, consistent rules to ensure they’d be there to help make it right. Texas’ safeties and linebackers have been as apt to make the front wrong as to make it right.

The three leading tacklers for this team are DeMarvion Overshown, Luke Brockermeyer, and Jaylan Ford. None have been great but they’ve had to carry the unit. The main outside linebackers Ovie Oghoufo and Ray Thornton have combined for nine total tackles for loss and three sacks, fewer than a single outside linebacker would generally yield in the Washington defense.

D’Shawn Jamison and Josh Thompson have combined this season for two interceptions and three pass break-ups, roughly as many as a single Notre Dame cornerback under Joseph in a given year. It’s a similar story with the safeties, although B.J. Foster has managed three picks.

There’s not really any manner in which the Texas defense applies pressure on offenses between the slow-reacting defensive fronts and backed-up coverages. They’ve been aiming pretty high on both ends and you don’t fall among the clouds when you aim for the stars on defense in the Big 12… it’s the end zone turf which breaks your fall.

What’s next for Texas on defense?

Everything starts with Sark, who has to make judgments about why the defense has been bad and then decisions regarding who should be tasked with the repairs. Does he lean on PK’s long-standing resume of excellence before Texas and try to empower his defensive coordinator to reshape the defensive staff and roster? Keep his earlier hires and oust PK for a new coordinator and linebacker coach who pair more easily with Joseph and Gideon? Or does he burn it all down like Dave Aranda did after Baylor’s awful year on offense in 2020, removing both factions and starting over with a mostly new staff tightly aligned on the direction for the system?

Kwiatkowski built his career on teaching excellent reactions up front and working with defensive back coaches who taught great reactions on the back end. Boise State made a big pivot from Justin Wilcox to Kwiatkowski in moving from emphasizing really savvy play-calling (Wilcox) to a system in which the defenders would have agency and freedom to make plays. Obviously only two years removed from Orlando’s battleship defensive system (Mike linebacker to C-gap!) with a pandemic as the canal didn’t set up Texas to make a smooth transition. Nor has the apparent lack of congruence between the defensive backfield and the front.

If Sark keeps the current staff mostly intact, could they work out how to better integrate Joseph’s quarters coverages, Gideon’s disguises, and Kwiatkowski’s multiple fronts? If Sark had his druthers, would he prefer to lean more into PK’s Match 3 schemes from Washington and rely on simplicity on the back end? Or does he want to maintain Joseph and Gideon’s two-high shells? A change in either direction likely means major teaching and overhauls this offseason, which could further delay Texas’ improvements.

After they work out all of those big picture details, then they have to retool this roster. Kwiatkowski and Bo Davis have done a ton of work to remake the front via traditional recruiting. Of the 22 current commits in the class, eight project to play as defensive tackles or the Edge positions. They may add another Edge through the portal and also need to see if Moro Ojomo returns for another year, if he does they will need to build more intentionally around Alfred Collins as a 3-4 defensive end. If not, they’ll need to get Collins playing defensive tackle at a high level in his stead.

Linebacker will also need some major attention and likely through the transfer portal. Overshown is probably off to the NFL and the trio of Brockermeyer, Ford, and David Gbenda don’t appear to be just an offseason away from providing dominant linebacker play. There’s also team captain, offensive back-up, and linebacker-sized Roschon Johnson to consider in their plans for a defensive rebuild.

There are a lot of moving pieces which Sark clearly failed to mesh together in his first offseason. As it goes for so many offensive-minded head coaches, the coming weeks will test his ability to manage the staff on the other side of the ball in a fashion which will allow for a big leap in 2022. Texas’ chances of a competitive season in the Big 12 and potentially his job depend on these adjustments and judgment calls over the coming weeks.

 

[Pig Bellmont 8691]

18 hours ago, Had Enough said:

At a high level, PK makes as much sense to retain him as bringing on Patterson.

I can’t disagree with this more. I deleted a rant, but it’s just not worth it. Neither will be coaching for Texas next year 

[ClubWhatever 12087]

TL;DR:  PK doesn't know how to coordinate an entire defense, just the front end, and LBs suck too bad to do what he wants.

[RomaVicta 29775]

18 hours ago, Codaxx said:

I am with this. You had Thompson and Schooler out there. Those are 6th year guys, there are more but those guys literally cant play next year (I know Thompson is now out). . IF your defense is bad and you are in year 1 of your contract, why are you playing anyone that isnt coming back next year. You might as well let younger guys take their lumps the last few games when the season goals are no longer attainable. 

I'm sure Texas fans would be patient losing games with young guys playing. We're known for being understanding and patient and very smart.

You've got to field the best team possible. You can't go wholesale putting second string players in thinking it will make the team better next year. 

You must have honest competition at each position. Where you can fudge a bit is letting a tie go to the young guy or if the young guy is notably putting in more effort.

I don't fault Sark or anyone for choosing the DC. PK had a fabulous reputation. Now we have a disaster on defense. I've read ScipioTex over on IT. He is scathing regarding the defensive strategies. 

Sark and the AD are on a real hot spot after the season when addressing the problem. I imagine the players are tired of changing coordinators just about every season. Oh the other hand, they're probably more tired of getting their asses kicked every week.

It's a pit of despair just about any way you go. I'd be very tempted to try to get A&M's DC at an exorbitant price and maybe their OL coach as well. Show the Aggies what rich really means.

The next move with the defensive staff likely seals our fate for the next three or four years. Yikes.

Tree of Woe

[MonkeyDoughnut 10139]

24 minutes ago, satyanash said:

Ian Boyd: Diagnosing the defensive disease

 

Really good breakdown here... which makes me wonder if PK's lack of ego is also a big problem. It he's not taken complete control of the defense he's ultimately in charge of, it's not going to work with the current coaching staff (obviously).  We don't know the inside dynamics, but this would indicate if PK is indeed kept on (likely but not guaranteed) it would seem Joseph and Gideon are gone for no other reason than they aren't on the same page regarding back play.  Let PK get his guys and go... or if those guys aren't available (or Sark can't be convinced it will solve the issue) he's got no choice but to retool from DC down.

[Slacks 6791]

How many times has the ball been thrown over the defense this year vs previous years?

Here is what I think I see....

I believe the goal is to limit the amount of 1:1 coverage that gets you beat deep (explosive pass plays) while requiring a team to work hard to grind out yardage and points...  Keep the ball underneath, rally, tackle...  We could probably do the same thing in a 4-2-5 if we have the right 4-2+1. Stop the run. Tackle short pass plays quickly, etc...  Basically, do the things that shut down the Run/PA/RPO game on early downs. (ie, do the things that would stop our own offense...)

Our gigantic problem is we can't consistently stop the run for shit, so we don't get offenses off-schedule enough to dictate what they should be doing... and when we do get them off-schedule, we generate almost no pass rush...  and when we do generate a pass rush, our safeties don't play sound... and when we do any of that correctly, we don't tackle...

Sure, we could scheme up something better than what we're doing. Ultimately, we still need:

Run Def:

• DL to help stop the run (either eat space/blocks or make tackles - whatever the strategist decides the personnel supports.)
• ILBs to fill run fits and not get walled off constantly (regardless of who failed - LB or DL)
• OLBs outside contain / force inside
• Safeties to know what the hell they are looking at and get on their horse on time to fill/clean up.
• CBs to fight off blocks and come up to force inside
• TACKLE

Pass Def:

• DL to generate an inside pass rush
• LBs to cover space for cross, slant, drag, curl, seam (handoff)
• Safeties to know what the hell they are looking at and get on their horse on time
• CBs to not get caught peeking, cover smartly (vs recover stupidly), high point / make a play on the ball.
• CBs to fight through the BS OPI that doesn't get called.
• TACKLE

Maybe we need to simplify the message and just start with "Tackle Muthafuckas, Muthafuckas..."

[Codaxx 5592]

6 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

I'm sure Texas fans would be patient losing games with young guys playing. We're known for being understanding and patient and very smart.

You've got to field the best team possible. You can't go wholesale putting second string players in thinking it will make the team better next year. 

You must have honest competition at each position. Where you can fudge a bit is letting a tie go to the young guy or if the young guy is notably putting in more effort.

I don't fault Sark or anyone for choosing the DC. PK had a fabulous reputation. Now we have a disaster on defense. I've read ScipioTex over on IT. He is scathing regarding the defensive strategies. 

Sark and the AD are on a real hot spot after the season when addressing the problem. I imagine the players are tired of changing coordinators just about every season. Oh the other hand, they're probably more tired of getting their asses kicked every week.

It's a pit of despair just about any way you go. I'd be very tempted to try to get A&M's DC at an exorbitant price and maybe their OL coach as well. Show the Aggies what rich really means.

The next move with the defensive staff likely seals our fate for the next three or four years. Yikes.

Tree of Woe

I get the whole play the best. My point is once the season goals are gone, the coaches need to change their goals for the season. At this point logic says the goals should be toward development. Any motion that is not in this direction is wasted energy. The fans are already lighting torches. You can be swayed by that. Reminds me of a time I met a friend for drinks and he said he told his wide he would be home by 8. I looked at him and said, "Its 9:15, dont you have to go". He said "Whats the point now? I am going to get bitched at if I leave now or if we order another round. Hey Bartender, another round please". 

As for the DC, I am really confused. On one hand PK has been excellent every where he has been. On the other hand the defense this year is a train wreck. I am not sure if the results are based on terrible coaching chemistry in the defensive staff or PK himself. I would take Elko in a heartbeat, but I think his next move is HC. Coming to Texas and dealing with a rebuild is volatility, that is something you dont want if you have a proven reputation. Sark needs to figure out the direction he wants the defense to go in. I think his mistake was picking apples from different trees. This reminds me of the Akina vs Diaz war (certainly not as acrimonious). Akina was a strict man coverage disciple. Manny was a fire zone guy. Akina was a great secondary coach. Diaz has an excellent reputation as a DC, not so much as a HC. Together they just didnt work well and it end up with a blow up on the sidelines in Provo. Whatever he decides, he needs to get all the apples from the same coaching tree this offseason. 

[Slacks 6791]

15 minutes ago, Codaxx said:

Whatever he decides, he needs to get all the apples from the same coaching tree this offseason. 

I thought this at first...  But I'm also thinking it might be easier for PK, Choate, Davis, Gideon, and Joseph to get into a room and put together a cohesive strategy that maximizes what our talent does well, and minimizes what they do not do well...

We absolutely must get better LB play, or we're going to need get out out of the 245 that is playing more like a neutered 335 and move to 425 and let the DL be the run game stoppers...  I don't think PK is going there, so better LBs it must be.

Edited November 16, 2021 by Snacks

[FunkSoulBrother 923]

47 minutes ago, Pig Bellmont said:

I can’t disagree with this more. I deleted a rant, but it’s just not worth it. Neither will be coaching for Texas next year 

You think PK is gone?

[Had Enough 2056]

I can’t disagree with this more. I deleted a rant, but it’s just not worth it. Neither will be coaching for Texas next year 

TCUs defense is ranked lower in yards per game and gives up 1 more yard per play than ours. They gave up 52 to OU compared to our 55. They prepared for the QB. Players were recruited for that system. Players are not new to the scheme. Patterson recruited all of them.

I don’t believe Patterson will coach at Texas next year either nor should he. I wouldn’t be surprised if PK is back. Wouldn’t surprise me if he’s not either. I completely understand the desire for him to go too.

Patterson and PK both have good track records. But both have had terrible years.

There is some legitimacy to continuity in spite of results (and relying on coaching history). There is some reasonable arguments for lack of scheme talent and poor cohesion amongst defensive coaches. Those favor PK over Patterson based on the latest years results. Patterson knows the Big 12 and has done it longer. His scheme probably fits better. Speculation but I suspect Patterson fuse has gotten shorter and that his age plays a factor. He’s probably a little tired and needs some time off.

You can disagree and that’s fine. We’re all ticked and tired of it. But there’s some reason in my comment.

Ultimately I just want it fixed enough to win games in the short then worry about domination as a longer term goal.

[drt 637]

1 hour ago, satyanash said:

Ian Boyd: Diagnosing the defensive disease

 

I read that as PK runs a system that is much like Gary Patterson's was at TCU.  Pretty simple for most of the players, and is made effective by players having limited choices so they can react rather than think.  The back 2 levels of the defense being taught by coaches from different philosophies really screws with what makes the thing go.  If it's me, I pick 1 of the 3 coaches, or none.  You can't keep all those dudes and tell me they all somehow get on the same page in year 2.

Also it points to their overall quality as teachers and evaluators.  If you can't vanilla things down to get everyone on the same page to stop the bleeding, you're not an above average coach.  And we don't have time for players to spend years learning a system because the coach can't teach outside their comfort zone.

[Guest Lobo]

Pete...Coach Kwiatkowski, if you're reading this.  I'm pretty sure you were just following in a long line of sorry-ass Kwiatkowski September defenses.  From Prussia to Kansas, from Krakow to Baylor, from the Vistula to the Red River.  You're a goddamned disgrace.  Do what Stachiewicz did, resign in disgrace and live in exile.  

[bschoolprof 6232]

Even if a big part of the issue is the "mismatch" or incongruity between the front end and back end, and our "coordinator" whom we pay almost 2 million dollars per year can't rectify this by, I don't know, effectively communicating with those under his charge, we still have many, many issues with PK, not the least of which are:

1) the front end has been terrible this year, and it's not just talent and personnel, although that's a big part of it.  The number of times we've over pursued, taken bad steps, and been wrong shouldered on the edge is far too high to count and indicates that the basic fundamentals of defense aren't being taught well or at all. My son's 7th grade team handles containment better than we do.  

2) PK has no ability to gameplan to attack opponents' weaknesses or even use basic common sense on formation/alignment given down and distance. Even if he gets his "dudes" (players or coaches or both), does anyone honestly think this guy is gonna be able to hang week in and week out in the SEC?  He will get depantsed by any high-level offense, even if he's got elite talent.  Whatever he had at washington/Boise he either lost or it depended on Peterson or others.  The emperor is naked here in Austin.

 

[burdine 522]

11 minutes ago, bschoolprof said:

Even if a big part of the issue is the "mismatch" or incongruity between the front end and back end, and our "coordinator" whom we pay almost 2 million dollars per year can't rectify this by, I don't know, effectively communicating with those under his charge, we still have many, many issues with PK, not the least of which are:

1) the front end has been terrible this year, and it's not just talent and personnel, although that's a big part of it.  The number of times we've over pursued, taken bad steps, and been wrong shouldered on the edge is far too high to count and indicates that the basic fundamentals of defense aren't being taught well or at all. My son's 7th grade team handles containment better than we do.  

2) PK has no ability to gameplan to attack opponents' weaknesses or even use basic common sense on formation/alignment given down and distance. Even if he gets his "dudes" (players or coaches or both), does anyone honestly think this guy is gonna be able to hang week in and week out in the SEC?  He will get depantsed by any high-level offense, even if he's got elite talent.  Whatever he had at washington/Boise he either lost or it depended on Peterson or others.  The emperor is naked here in Austin.

 

Yeah this is pretty much where I'm at.

 

[MonkeyDoughnut 10139]

14 minutes ago, bschoolprof said:

Even if a big part of the issue is the "mismatch" or incongruity between the front end and back end, and our "coordinator" whom we pay almost 2 million dollars per year can't rectify this by, I don't know, effectively communicating with those under his charge, we still have many, many issues with PK, not the least of which are:

1) the front end has been terrible this year, and it's not just talent and personnel, although that's a big part of it.  The number of times we've over pursued, taken bad steps, and been wrong shouldered on the edge is far too high to count and indicates that the basic fundamentals of defense aren't being taught well or at all. My son's 7th grade team handles containment better than we do.  

2) PK has no ability to gameplan to attack opponents' weaknesses or even use basic common sense on formation/alignment given down and distance. Even if he gets his "dudes" (players or coaches or both), does anyone honestly think this guy is gonna be able to hang week in and week out in the SEC?  He will get depantsed by any high-level offense, even if he's got elite talent.  Whatever he had at washington/Boise he either lost or it depended on Peterson or others.  The emperor is naked here in Austin.

 

Can definitely see both points, I think so much time is spend of knowing scheme they haven't worked on these enough, definite weakness.

For #2 I really feel PK is game planning to try and hide/help our weaknesses as best he can.  He knows if he gets aggressive and plays a lot of man without safety help we will just get torched for long plays over and over again. That said I would like to think he would try and validate that more... like go to full run support, put CBs on islands to find out. I think we know the answer, but would like to know without a doubt since run game is killing us AND wearing the defense down.

[drt 637]

5 minutes ago, MonkeyDoughnut said:

Can definitely see both points, I think so much time is spend of knowing scheme they haven't worked on these enough, definite weakness.

For #2 I really feel PK is game planning to try and hide/help our weaknesses as best he can.  He knows if he gets aggressive and plays a lot of man without safety help we will just get torched for long plays over and over again. That said I would like to think he would try and validate that more... like go to full run support, put CBs on islands to find out. I think we know the answer, but would like to know without a doubt since run game is killing us AND wearing the defense down.

Except that against teams like Kansas where they haven't been able to throw downfield all season, he still played it to hide our weakness vs. take away their very few strengths.  And did it all game, and got torched.  Scipio said it better than I could.  He's just not a good coach based on this year's evidence.

[Codaxx 5592]

6 minutes ago, MonkeyDoughnut said:

Can definitely see both points, I think so much time is spend of knowing scheme they haven't worked on these enough, definite weakness.

For #2 I really feel PK is game planning to try and hide/help our weaknesses as best he can.  He knows if he gets aggressive and plays a lot of man without safety help we will just get torched for long plays over and over again. That said I would like to think he would try and validate that more... like go to full run support, put CBs on islands to find out. I think we know the answer, but would like to know without a doubt since run game is killing us AND wearing the defense down.

I think point #2 is the biggest issue. I think there are 2 paths to help a shitty defense. 

#1. You play bend and dont break, limiting big plays, and hoping the offense screws up or you can get stops in the red zone.. This is clearly PK's choice for hiding issues

#2. You go balls out. You look to inflict negative plays and turnovers. This was the Orlando approach. Every problem can be fixed by a blitz. 

I think PK has remained to consistent in his approach. You play a solid offense, I understand option 1. You play a shitty offense, I hate bend and dont break. That is playing to their hands. Old DCs will say you blitz a bad OL and play vanilla vs a great OL. 

[Fondren & Main 6665]

What's Leon Fuller up to?  Is he still alive?

[GringoSalado 1651]

I've been saying the coaching/scheme of the safeties and front seven are mismatched but I'm a fucking idiot.

[Pig Bellmont 8691]

4 hours ago, FunkSoulBrother said:

You think PK is gone?

We lost to Kansas at home. Some heads will roll. 

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

5 hours ago, RomaVicta said:

I'm sure Texas fans would be patient

[Gidnik 3251]

Remember this fall when we were hearing that the defense was killing the offense? I remember. 

[MonkeyDoughnut 10139]

1 hour ago, GringoSalado said:

I've been saying the coaching/scheme of the safeties and front seven are mismatched but I'm a fucking idiot.

We've seen it before too... 2011 Diaz comes in and installs his system fully utilizing 2-read defense - Texas has top defense in conference in total defense/ pass defense/ rush defense.

Akina much preferred the press-man that he used to create DBU and had lots of sway and chits in the program.

2012 Texas shifted to press-man, LBs weren't near as good as 2011 and defense was awful.

Hoping better players/experience and off-season can correct (without changing his scheme w/press-man backend) and Diaz gets fired 2 games in... Akina goes about his business, Greg Robinson comes in and runs system that pairs with what Akina is running.

[Slacks 6791]

So, we're bringing back Robinson and Akina?

I'll allow it.