Hey PK -- What would you say you do here?

[JBJ 3648]

2 hours ago, MonkeyDoughnut said:

We've seen it before too... 2011 Diaz comes in and installs his system fully utilizing 2-read defense - Texas has top defense in conference in total defense/ pass defense/ rush defense.

Akina much preferred the press-man that he used to create DBU and had lots of sway and chits in the program.

2012 Texas shifted to press-man, LBs weren't near as good as 2011 and defense was awful.

Hoping better players/experience and off-season can correct (without changing his scheme w/press-man backend) and Diaz gets fired 2 games in... Akina goes about his business, Greg Robinson comes in and runs system that pairs with what Akina is running.

That's not even what happened, though.  Robinson kept the front the same and forced Akina to play 2-deep and fire zone.

But that's not the same dynamic really at play here.  We aren't trying to force together less-than-compatible philosophies.  The way the defensive staffing played out isn't wholly without concern.  There's maybe some teaching points or techniques that one or another position coach is learning along the players, which isn't ideal.  But it's not like we are trying to make a new defense or do things unfamiliar to Joseph or PK.  I think we just aren't doing what they would prefer to do, and that's because of personnel.

Edited November 17, 2021 by JBJ

[Slacks 6791]

13 hours ago, JBJ said:

I think we just aren't doing what they would prefer to do, and that's because of personnel.

I believe this is the case as well.  We do not have the LBs to make it right... which is why we get run on with ease.

[Slacks 6791]

On 1/23/2021 at 5:05 PM, JBJ said:

I watched some games from the past two years and some from 2016 (when they made the CFP).

He runs three basic defenses.  The 2-4 Over is his basic nickel package and what we will see the most of.  To go bigger or dime he goes to either a 3-4 Tite or 3-2 Tite.

---

I'll start with the 2-4.  

Both DTs are essentially the same position. The defense as a whole plays field and boundary, but the DTs will align to the TE if one exists.  So either player can be the NT on any given snap.  They shade the guards (2i and 3).  It's a single-gap scheme for them, but they do not shoot gaps.  They very aggressively seek contact.

The OLBs are for all intensive purposes DEs except they stand at the snap.  They are a bit tighter on the line than what you'd expect out of a 2-4, and they don't try to speed rush every snap.  It's a much more passive position than DT, featuring about equal parts of read-and-react vs working the edge.  The field side tends to be more aggresive from what I saw, but that might be a personnel decision moreso than schematic.

The ILBs play more similar than I expected.  One does tend to be smaller and rangier, because he covers more ground in coverage. However, both usually play over the guards as true ILBs would.  They do cheat (line up in the wrong gaps) for coverage against certain offensive sets, but it is not an every down thing.

The statistics say the secondary is split evenly between single and two-high safety looks, but his 2-4 definitely favors single safety.  The single safety plays very deep while the other DBs play tighter than usual.  Despite the single-high look it's a modern matchzone.  Because television hides 2 or 3 DBs every snap, it's difficult to tell if he has favorite coverages.  The CBs play a slide technique regardless of coverage.

Blitzes feel somewhere between rare and normal.  It's not really a "do the same thing every play" defense though.  He's just more likely to stunt or overload one side and drop somewhere else than bring an extra rusher.  "Simulated pressure" is what they call it nowadays.

---

The 3-4 Tite (404) is for large packages and run-heavy teams and readily morphs to Bear (every lineman covered) in goalline situations.  Every position is similar to above but with another large DT instead of nickel.  The NT either 2-gaps or Lags, the DEs attack a single gap like above. More 2-high safety from this look.

---

The 3-2 Tite is for Leach and is pretty much Todd Orlando (that's who Lake based it around).  He plays it very simple and passive, usually dropping 8.  It is more bend-not-break than the other two.  The front is small for this with one or both OLBs playing DE.

Do these grade ranges make sense based on above?

DTs - C.

OLBs - F to D

ILBs - D- to C

CBs - C.

S - F to D+

 

[Codaxx 5592]

13 minutes ago, Snacks said:

Do these grade ranges make sense based on above?

DTs - C.

OLBs - F to D

ILBs - D- to C

CBs - C.

S - F to D+

 

I personally would have the DTs at the highest grade, which is probably a C. ILB is a D at best. Safety a D. CBs is tough, but I'll say C-. EDGE- that is D-

[Slacks 6791]

32 minutes ago, Codaxx said:

I personally would have the DTs at the highest grade, which is probably a C. ILB is a D at best. Safety a D. CBs is tough, but I'll say C-. EDGE- that is D-

So, we're in agreement...

Some of you motherfuckers do need to get in it.

[TexasEd 8064]

23 hours ago, MonkeyDoughnut said:

Can definitely see both points, I think so much time is spend of knowing scheme they haven't worked on these enough, definite weakness.

For #2 I really feel PK is game planning to try and hide/help our weaknesses as best he can.  He knows if he gets aggressive and plays a lot of man without safety help we will just get torched for long plays over and over again. That said I would like to think he would try and validate that more... like go to full run support, put CBs on islands to find out. I think we know the answer, but would like to know without a doubt since run game is killing us AND wearing the defense down.

Exactly and Kansas was the perfect opportunity with the RB being their strong point, 3rd sting Frosh QB, etc.

[JBJ 3648]

45 minutes ago, Snacks said:

Do these grade ranges make sense based on above?

DTs - C.

OLBs - F to D

ILBs - D- to C

CBs - C.

S - F to D+

If I ranked from worst to best:

Edge, DT/ILB, S, DB

Most our problems stem from the front, especially the edges, but the DTs have been both inconsistent and disappointing.

We can't really even base out of the 2-4 because we don't have the Edges, and it's really seen very rare use once Jacoby went down.

It's hard to grade positions behind them because they shouldn't be expected to meet a RB straight-lining upfield and tackle them in wide space.  Maybe in a phonebooth or on a cutback, but not supermanning a full speed runner a dozen times per game.  I don't think our safeties are incredible, but they are being made to look much worse.

[TexasEd 8064]

19 hours ago, Gidnik said:

Remember this fall when we were hearing that the defense was killing the offense? I remember. 

Was this when Card was running with 1s?  I'd believe it.

[TexasEd 8064]

4 minutes ago, JBJ said:

If I ranked from worst to best:

Edge, DT/ILB, S, DB

Most our problems stem from the front, especially the edges, but the DTs have been both inconsistent and disappointing.

We can't really even base out of the 2-4 because we don't have the Edges, and it's really seen very rare use once Jacoby went down.

It's hard to grade positions behind them because they shouldn't be expected to meet a RB straight-lining upfield and tackle them in wide space.  Maybe in a phonebooth or on a cutback, but not supermanning a full speed runner a dozen times per game.  I don't think our safeties are incredible, but they are being made to look much worse.

because they are too far from the line and the LBs already missed filling the holes

[TotallyLegit 3050]

21 hours ago, Gidnik said:

Remember this fall when we were hearing that the defense was killing the offense? I remember. 

Remember when the rumor was at least one of our coaches thought we could go undefeated?

[westexhorn 2006]

3 minutes ago, TotallyLegit said:

Remember when the rumor was at least one of our coaches thought we could go undefeated?

If anyone is to get shit canned this year, that's the coach that needs to go.  Ray Charles evaluates better than him.

[Jkwellborn 6653]

Remember when the rumor was at least one of our coaches thought we could go undefeated?

To be fair, it’s a team of pussies and pussy is undefeated.

[Codaxx 5592]

44 minutes ago, TotallyLegit said:

Remember when the rumor was at least one of our coaches thought we could go undefeated?

I remember Milwee saying Bama's second team would roll Texas. Starting to think he meant the 3rd team

[LTtxfan 48962]

1 hour ago, Codaxx said:

I remember Milwee saying Bama's second team would roll Texas. Starting to think he meant the 3rd team

Maybe even the Bama Scout team would roll Texas...  😋

[perfectchaos007 6596]

Fat Patterson is just volunteering at local food banks here in Ft Worth. Maybe give him a call to see if he’ll coach the defense. Open the checkbook if he’d consider it 

[Brock Sampson 289]

At least make him an "Analyst" or whatever.  He's not getting one of the big jobs (USC, LSU) coming open so this might be his best bet.  Plus he and CDC go way back.

[tbone_ 14020]

Maybe even the Bama Scout team would roll Texas... 

Gladewater JV team dressed in Bama unis would roll this team.

[Batteredfan 2]

Is there a reasonable chance PK is gone at the end of the season? Regardless of history, it's obvious he has done a horrific job this season on scheme, personnel, and playcalling. But almost equally as important what sticks out to me is we are asking our DL to eat blocks and let our LB and safetys run free. That is fine if those are what you recruit well, but thats not Texas (particularly LB). However, we do have the potential to recruit some dogs on the DL. Negative recruiting is going to get easy next season when we our d is just as bad and we suck. 

I'd love to eat my words, but frankly I think Sark is going to dig his own grave if we choose to stick with this defense. I cannot understand how an offensive mind like Sark cannot see how terrible this defensive coaching and scheme has been. Every week ex players are ripping it.  

[LTtxfan 48962]

13 minutes ago, Batteredfan said:

Is there a reasonable chance PK is gone at the end of the season? Regardless of history, it's obvious he has done a horrific job this season on scheme, personnel, and playcalling. But almost equally as important what sticks out to me is we are asking our DL to eat blocks and let our LB and safetys run free. That is fine if those are what you recruit well, but thats not Texas (particularly LB). However, we do have the potential to recruit some dogs on the DL. Negative recruiting is going to get easy next season when we our d is just as bad and we suck. 

I'd love to eat my words, but frankly I think Sark is going to dig his own grave if we choose to stick with this defense. I cannot understand how an offensive mind like Sark cannot see how terrible this defensive coaching and scheme has been. Every week ex players are ripping it.  

 

I'm wondering if the new coach at Washington might try to bring PK back -- the money won't be as much, but might be a good result for both UW and Texas...  

[HtownHorn 14468]

On 11/15/2021 at 2:25 PM, Had Enough said:

 

 

 

We are small, but that wasn’t really the issue in this game. They had 17 3rd downs. We only had 11. They converted 11, us 7. That’s not to say our run D was good. But we lost because we couldn’t stop 3rd down. And the passing game.

Every 3rd down they had was an attempted pass except the Qb sneak. First one of the game was a QB scramble. Some were 3rd and short; some were 3rd and long. We stopped them because they didn’t complete it on 3rd. (Not sure in overtime as the game play by play was not showing)

Their QB was damn good and was the difference in the game.

 

 

 

We lost because their QB outplayed our 2 QBs. There is not much you can do when your QBs turn it over 4 times gifting the other 21 points with the final TO deep in the opponent's end of the field negating what could have been a scoring chance. That's 24-28 points right there.

[HtownHorn 14468]

17 minutes ago, Batteredfan said:

Is there a reasonable chance PK is gone at the end of the season? Regardless of history, it's obvious he has done a horrific job this season on scheme, personnel, and playcalling. But almost equally as important what sticks out to me is we are asking our DL to eat blocks and let our LB and safetys run free. That is fine if those are what you recruit well, but thats not Texas (particularly LB). However, we do have the potential to recruit some dogs on the DL. Negative recruiting is going to get easy next season when we our d is just as bad and we suck. 

I'd love to eat my words, but frankly I think Sark is going to dig his own grave if we choose to stick with this defense. I cannot understand how an offensive mind like Sark cannot see how terrible this defensive coaching and scheme has been. Every week ex players are ripping it.  

Yes there is absolutely a chance Kwiatkowski is done here, but when your team is full of JAGs with no desire to play football no DC is going to have success here. Not too mention you have recruited an entire class of kids that fit what you are trying to do on defense.

[markstanco 12504]

Is there a reasonable chance PK is gone at the end of the season? Regardless of history, it's obvious he has done a horrific job this season on scheme, personnel, and playcalling. But almost equally as important what sticks out to me is we are asking our DL to eat blocks and let our LB and safetys run free. That is fine if those are what you recruit well, but thats not Texas (particularly LB). However, we do have the potential to recruit some dogs on the DL. Negative recruiting is going to get easy next season when we our d is just as bad and we suck. 
I'd love to eat my words, but frankly I think Sark is going to dig his own grave if we choose to stick with this defense. I cannot understand how an offensive mind like Sark cannot see how terrible this defensive coaching and scheme has been. Every week ex players are ripping it.  

If he does he is panicking. CDC won’t let that happen. You fire coaches at the end of year 2 to get a hall pass for year 3. Charlie and Tom out front shoulda told you.

[Eskimohorn 5613]

We lost because their QB outplayed our 2 QBs. There is not much you can do when your QBs turn it over 4 times gifting the other 21 points with the final TO deep in the opponent's end of the field negating what could have been a scoring chance. That's 24-28 points right there.

Their 3rd string QB was not obliterated by edge rushers, could step into throws in an unhurried pocket, had quick passing options, was able to consistently rush the ball, and bulldozed our linebackers. He played against a worse defense and outdueled our four fingered QB.

[ClubWhatever 12087]

On 11/16/2021 at 3:54 PM, GringoSalado said:

I've been saying the coaching/scheme of the safeties and front seven are mismatched but I'm a fucking idiot.

I’ve heard this from a bunch of people including from non fucking idiots.  It’s the DCs job to coordinate the defense.  He failed.  He’s been a terrible DC for us.  The blame lies with him.  Saying he didn’t get his guys to teach or run a coordinated defense is saying he’s not a good coordinator.  The conclusion is that he probably wasn’t really “coordinating” the Washington defenses either.  So either get the real brains behind those defenses or get a new coordinator.  

[immamac 42516]

There is so much stupid in this thread it hurts. 

PK is not going anywhere for at least 3 and maybe even 4 years. Neither is Sark unless there is a recruiting catastrophe (spoiler: not looking to be the case).

There seems to be a clear indication from leadership that they want to change the program entirely. They sold us on the possibility of winning early, but have all essentially given up on that and committed to the process of turning the roster over, installing a scheme for "next man up", and establishing a long term 5-10 year period of elite football expectations. That is what sark sold them on when he took the job and that's what everyone who gave sark the job wanted. 

At this point we know for a fact that Urban told the AD and leadership in no uncertain terms why he didn't want to come here and it was because this program wasn't just a rebuild it was a demolish and start over. The good news is that can happen in 2 seasons with the transfer portal and recruiting. We can have 65+ new players on the roster and keep another 30 who can't go to the NFL yet by the time the SEC move happens. 

It sucks that we are losing, it's really fucking stupid we are probably going to miss a bowl game, and I am also in the camp of play the young guys early in this scenario. 

Just embrace the suck.  

[Eskimohorn 5613]

I see few possibilities of victory in Morgantown. We cannot stop any running game. And our pass defense is not much better. About the only thing we do well is accept turnovers that land in our lap due to luck or overconfidence.

We’re a sieve. Our defensive line is like the Maginot Line, just stationary bunkers occupying space as the enemy storms past us. The linebackers are like children wondering aimlessly. And the secondary gets fucked over, either facing running backs running untouched into them, or having to remain in coverage for countless seconds as our slow and/or weak pass rush occupies defenders.

This is the worst defense I’ve seen at Texas since Bobby Jack Wright’s unit in 1997. It’s a demoralized unit across the board. We should cut our losses. We desperately need someone to raise some dogs out there.

Changing systems is not optimal, but you cannot build a foundation on shit.

[Nivek 16852]

On 11/17/2021 at 4:32 PM, tbone_ said:

Gladewater JV team dressed in Bama unis would roll this team.

the alumni band would kick this teams ass on the football field and then play them off.

[BurntOrangeBlooded15 1564]

Would bringing in Lake as Co-DC help this problem?  

[Nivek 16852]

2 minutes ago, Eskimohorn said:

I see few possibilities of victory in Morgantown. We cannot stop any running game. And our pass defense is not much better. About the only thing we do well is accept turnovers that land in our lap due to luck or overconfidence.

We’re a sieve. Our defensive line is like the Maginot Line, just stationary bunkers occupying space as the enemy storms past us. The linebackers are like children wondering aimlessly. And the secondary gets fucked over, either facing running backs running untouched into them, or having to remain in coverage for countless seconds as our slow and/or weak pass rush occupies defenders.

This is the worst defense I’ve seen at Texas since Bobby Jack Wright’s unit in 1997. It’s a demoralized unit across the board. We should cut our losses. We desperately need someone to raise some dogs out there.

Changing systems is not optimal, but you cannot build a foundation on shit.

I think we only need 5 more years to test this out....

[Jkwellborn 6653]

There is so much stupid in this thread it hurts. 
PK is not going anywhere for at least 3 and maybe even 4 years. Neither is Sark unless there is a recruiting catastrophe (spoiler: not looking to be the case).
There seems to be a clear indication from leadership that they want to change the program entirely. They sold us on the possibility of winning early, but have all essentially given up on that and committed to the process of turning the roster over, installing a scheme for "next man up", and establishing a long term 5-10 year period of elite football expectations. That is what sark sold them on when he took the job and that's what everyone who gave sark the job wanted. 
At this point we know for a fact that Urban told the AD and leadership in no uncertain terms why he didn't want to come here and it was because this program wasn't just a rebuild it was a demolish and start over. The good news is that can happen in 2 seasons with the transfer portal and recruiting. We can have 65+ new players on the roster and keep another 30 who can't go to the NFL yet by the time the SEC move happens. 
It sucks that we are losing, it's really fucking stupid we are probably going to miss a bowl game, and I am also in the camp of play the young guys early in this scenario. 
Just embrace the suck.  

If next season plays out like this season has, I’d be willing to bet at the least there are a bunch of new faces on the defensive coaching staff. Including pk.
Labeling this as anything other than an embarrassment is just lying to yourself.

[El Hornarino 367]

Guys, Sark and PK are both highly regarded so why would Sark fire PK?

[immamac 42516]

8 minutes ago, Jkwellborn said:

If next season plays out like this season has, I’d be willing to bet at the least there are a bunch of new faces on the defensive coaching staff. Including pk.
Labeling this as anything other than an embarrassment is just lying to yourself.

To put it simply, no it won't. There is a lot of desire for stability and pk is a proven coach. 

[Atticus 3920]

10 minutes ago, BurntOrangeBlooded15 said:

Would bringing in Lake as Co-DC help this problem?  

It doesn't have to be Lake, there are others who can teach a scheme that is easy to execute and works well with what PK wants to do.

I think Joseph/Gideon are out unless they can somehow show in the next two games that they can do that. PK is the big money guy with the proven track record. Terry Joseph has been a general non-factor in recruiting and his secondary schemes don't erase nearly enough.

[BurntOrange&White 39618]

16 minutes ago, BurntOrangeBlooded15 said:

Would bringing in Lake as Co-DC help this problem?  

They don't care for each other....so maybe?

[BurntOrange&White 39618]

5 minutes ago, immamac said:

To put it simply, no it won't. There is a lot of desire for stability and pk is a proven coach. 

Continuity for continuity's sake isn't continuity especially if it's obvious the hire failed. Just because he is a proven coach doesn't mean he's going to work out here. We've seen that song and dance. 

Edited November 19, 2021 by BurntOrange&White

[Poe It Up 126]

Yeah, they’ll turn the roster over and against my better judgement I’ll buy the off-season hype once again. Then Bama will put up 75 on us and I’ll tell myself that I’ll never fall for it again. Rinse and repeat. 

[BurntOrange&White 39618]

Just now, Poe It Up said:

Yeah, they’ll turn the roster over and against my better judgement I’ll buy the off-season hype once again. Then Bama will put up 75 on us and I’ll tell myself that I’ll never fall for it again. Rinse and repeat. 

The lid will come off every message board and donor if Traylor beats us next year.

[Had Enough 2056]

If I ranked from worst to best:
Edge, DT/ILB, S, DB
Most our problems stem from the front, especially the edges, but the DTs have been both inconsistent and disappointing.
We can't really even base out of the 2-4 because we don't have the Edges, and it's really seen very rare use once Jacoby went down.
It's hard to grade positions behind them because they shouldn't be expected to meet a RB straight-lining upfield and tackle them in wide space.  Maybe in a phonebooth or on a cutback, but not supermanning a full speed runner a dozen times per game.  I don't think our safeties are incredible, but they are being made to look much worse.

From my view, I plugged the safeties as the primary issue a few games ago primarily because there were several blitzes that PK had them in the right position and they botched them. Not only did they not make the play, but it often ended as a huge offensive play. And often very critical. But for me, it’s never been a lack of physical talent with those guys. I’d partly say confidence to play aggressive is one issue. In todays game expecting a safety to consistently win one on one battles with a RB with a two way go in the open field is a losing proposition. I mean we’d expect Bijan to win that everytime, right?

But the last two games or so, it’s shifted somewhat because Schooler is playing damn hard.

So my question is what changed for him? And how do we get others triggered in that same manner?

[Hookem2147 20927]

1 hour ago, BurntOrange&White said:

The lid will come off every message board and donor if Traylor beats us next year.

Apparently UTSA’s QB just announced he’s returning for a 6th season and they are getting a bunch of starters back. Maybe something changes in the next 10 months but I don’t know how anyone can have confidence right now that we beat UTSA next year. I know their schedule is crap but they are a well coached team.

[HtownHorn 14468]

2 minutes ago, Hookem2147 said:

Apparently UTSA’s QB just announced he’s returning for a 6th season and they are getting a bunch of starters back. Maybe something changes in the next 10 months but I don’t know how anyone can have confidence right now that we beat UTSA next year. I know their schedule is crap but they are a well coached team.

See Louisiana 2021.

[BurntOrange&White 39618]

1 minute ago, HtownHorn said:

See Louisiana 2021.

See Texas 2021

[HtownHorn 14468]

Just now, BurntOrange&White said:

See Texas 2021

Yet we beat Louisiana.

[Hookem2147 20927]

1 minute ago, HtownHorn said:

See Louisiana 2021.

If we played as disciplined and well-coached as we did against Louisiana, we would be 9-1 right now. That game has proven to be an outlier despite the fact Louisiana is pretty good. Maybe we do the same thing again next year against UTSA and crap the bed the rest of the schedule.

[dcar00 14030]

1 hour ago, Poe It Up said:

Yeah, they’ll turn the roster over and against my better judgement I’ll buy the off-season hype once again. Then Bama will put up 75 on us and I’ll tell myself that I’ll never fall for it again. Rinse and repeat. 

I stopped falling for it after Charlie Arkansas Bowl game fiasco.  Herman almost got there but didn't because his DC falied him mostly.  This is likely to go down the same way because I don't think he's as inept as Charlie. 

Show me.

[Ricky Butler 2657]

1 hour ago, BurntOrange&White said:

They don't care for each other....so maybe?

They might have had a falling out, but it sounds like they were friends for like 10 years and PK was a mentor that encouraged him to get into coaching. So who knows what the issues was. 

[dcar00 14030]

even if they turn the roster over this group of coaches still loses to OU, OSU, Bama,  ISU and probably Baylor.  I can't believe they could lose to KU again. They will beat Tech.  KSU/TCU/WVU toss ups.

[BurntOrange&White 39618]

9 minutes ago, Ricky Butler said:

They might have had a falling out, but it sounds like they were friends for like 10 years and PK was a mentor that encouraged him to get into coaching. So who knows what the issues was. 

It would be our luck they bury the hatchet then mid-season have another falling out, haha.

[Bobby_Batronic 1994]

1 hour ago, BurntOrange&White said:

They don't care for each other....so maybe?

It appears that PK has little input or idea what the back end of his defense is doing on any given down anyway, so he probably wouldn’t even have to interact with Lake other than quipping about the weather in the coaches’ locker room.

[FORTY NINE TO ZERO 2630]

Y’all y’all. We have good coaches that just happen to lose to Kansas.  Once we have their 2 and 3 star players in we will be okay!!!

[JBJ 3648]

2 minutes ago, Had Enough said:

From my view, I plugged the safeties as the primary issue a few games ago primarily because there were several blitzes that PK had them in the right position and they botched them. Not only did they not make the play, but it often ended as a huge offensive play. And often very critical. But for me, it’s never been a lack of physical talent with those guys. I’d partly say confidence to play aggressive is one issue. In todays game expecting a safety to consistently win one on one battles with a RB with a two way go in the open field is a losing proposition. I mean we’d expect Bijan to win that everytime, right?

But the last two games or so, it’s shifted somewhat because Schooler is playing damn hard.

So my question is what changed for him? And how do we get others triggered in that same manner?

Seems like every blitz from the safety position they were in a perfect position to make a play and that the play ended in disaster.  That is true.

For Schooler, some of it is playing more Cover 4.  The field safety has less coverage responsibility and is in a more aggressive position to support the run.  Also, it's his first year back at safety.  You just start to see and feel things better over time.