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Hey PK -- What would you say you do here?

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USNALonghorn

USNALonghorn 5024

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I don’t see how you keep one of PK or Terry Joseph. As Ian Boyd pointed out, the front seven and the DBs are completely out of sync. There have been multiple games (that we lost) where the announcers were shitting on the two high safety look being shredded on the ground. One of them absolutely has to go and we need to commit to have an aligned staff on defense. This oversight is the biggest red flag on Sark’s tenure here so far. Either he addresses during this off-season or his rebuild plan is set back far enough to he him shitcanned after 2023. 

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Found tweets of most of the deep plays. Here's the breakdown for each.      Play 1 (69 yarder): It's Cover 1 Man.  Jamison is in man on the outside WR and does well until he quits

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Bobby_Batronic

Bobby_Batronic 1994

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, Huckleberry said:

Our edge guys were terrible all season long and I don't get it. If you have edge contain you keep your outside shoulder free, it's a very easy task to at least try to accomplish, but not only did we fail to do it all year long our edge guys weren't even trying to do it most of the time. They'd square up the blocker and turn their chest to the inside, making it easy for the tacitly endorsed standard Big 12 hold to seal the edge.

I think we got a good look at why our edge guys were third string at their respective schools or walk ons at Texas. Jett Bush might have some value as depth playing not DE. Ovie plays voyeur football. Constantly peeking in the backfield instead of doing his job. I can’t even remember the other guys name, but he was a nonentity on passing downs. 
 

Total defensive breakdown. No understanding of team defense, leverage and how doing your job well will help someone else do their job well and make the tackle. 
 

I swear PK is only interested in his box players, and someone else has to be making it right with the secondary. It’s the only explanation for the utterly foolish way we deployed our defense time and again with completely tone deaf situational play calling based on down and distance. 
 

what is that? 4 times in the last decade where UT has managed to play the worst defense in the history of Texas football?

Edited by Bobby_Batronic
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dcar00

dcar00 14035

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3 hours ago, USNALonghorn said:

I don’t see how you keep one of PK or Terry Joseph. As Ian Boyd pointed out, the front seven and the DBs are completely out of sync. There have been multiple games (that we lost) where the announcers were shitting on the two high safety look being shredded on the ground. One of them absolutely has to go and we need to commit to have an aligned staff on defense. This oversight is the biggest red flag on Sark’s tenure here so far. Either he addresses during this off-season or his rebuild plan is set back far enough to he him shitcanned after 2023. 

So is Terry Joseph just doing 2 high safeties because he wants to?  If PK doesn't want it but Joseph keeps doing it why hasn't Sark fired or demoted Joseph?

Since we can't fire Sark, PK needs to be fired.  Joseph can go as well I suppose.

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USNALonghorn

USNALonghorn 5024

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24 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

So is Terry Joseph just doing 2 high safeties because he wants to?  If PK doesn't want it but Joseph keeps doing it why hasn't Sark fired or demoted Joseph?

Since we can't fire Sark, PK needs to be fired.  Joseph can go as well I suppose.

Seems like it’s a similar situation to Diaz and Akina being out of sync with each other’s game plans. Results were similarly horrific, just took longer to manifest as our athletes were better back then.

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Thatguy

Thatguy 8502

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Seems like it’s a similar situation to Diaz and Akina being out of sync with each other’s game plans. Results were similarly horrific, just took longer to manifest as our athletes were better back then.
No way PK isn't making those calls. You make a D call and the large percentage of what you called has to do with what the secondary is gonna do. There isn't two calls. It is all one supposedly cohesive call. I blame a lot on the players but a bit of it is coaches coming to the 12 not understanding how dynamic the offenses are.

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USNALonghorn

USNALonghorn 5024

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5 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

No way PK isn't making those calls. You make a D call and the large percentage of what you called has to do with what the secondary is gonna do. There isn't two calls. It is all one supposedly cohesive call. I blame a lot on the players but a bit of it is coaches coming to the 12 not understanding how dynamic the offenses are.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
 

That doesn’t explain why this defense looks different from what PK demonstrated at Washington. PK did not utilize the two high safety look nearly as often. 
 

If this is all on PK and he actually thinks this is the way to deal with Big12 offenses, then we have bigger problems. Either Sark will fire him, or his fate is sealed as the next HC to fail miserably at Texas.

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bschoolprof

bschoolprof 6232

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54 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

So is Terry Joseph just doing 2 high safeties because he wants to?  If PK doesn't want it but Joseph keeps doing it why hasn't Sark fired or demoted Joseph?

Since we can't fire Sark, PK needs to be fired.  Joseph can go as well I suppose.

Wait, you expect our defensive coordinator to actually, I don't know,  coordinate our entire defense? He's only getting paid $1.7 mill.  

3 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

No way PK isn't making those calls. You make a D call and the large percentage of what you called has to do with what the secondary is gonna do. There isn't two calls. It is all one supposedly cohesive call. I blame a lot on the players but a bit of it is coaches coming to the 12 not understanding how dynamic the offenses are.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
 

West Virginia and Kansas are pretty dynamic - lulz. Of our 6 conference losses, only 1 (OU) came against a team in the top 25 in points per game nationally.   Big 12 offenses are not dynamic in a relative sense, at least not anymore.  

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Jkwellborn

Jkwellborn 6653

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West Virginia and Kansas are pretty dynamic - lulz. Of our 6 conference losses, only 1 (OU) came against a team in the top 25 in points per game nationally.   Big 12 offenses are not dynamic in a relative sense, at least not anymore.  

This year isn’t the norm for offenses in this conference. The Big 12 normally has good to great play calling, qb and wr play. Couple that with offensive minded refs and points come quick.
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dcar00

dcar00 14035

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9 minutes ago, USNALonghorn said:

That doesn’t explain why this defense looks different from what PK demonstrated at Washington. PK did not utilize the two high safety look nearly as often. 
 

If this is all on PK and he actually thinks this is the way to deal with Big12 offenses, then we have bigger problems. Either Sark will fire him, or his fate is sealed as the next HC to fail miserably at Texas.

at least you get it.  having a defense that gives up over 200 yards a game rushing in what for the Big 12 is a pretty pedestrian offensive year isn't a player situation.

The guy doesn't have the ability to take away either the pass or the run via scheme.

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31272

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1 hour ago, Bobby_Batronic said:

I think we got a good look at why our edge guys were third string at their respective schools or walk ons at Texas. Jett Bush might have some value as depth playing not DE. Ovie plays voyeur football. Constantly peeking in the backfield instead of doing his job. I can’t even remember the other guys name, but he was a nonentity on passing downs. 
 

Total defensive breakdown. No understanding of team defense, leverage and how doing your job well will help someone else do their job well and make the tackle. 
 

I swear PK is only interested in his box players, and someone else has to be making it right with the secondary. It’s the only explanation for the utterly foolish way we deployed our defense time and again with completely tone deaf situational play calling based on down and distance. 
 

what is that? 4 times in the last decade where UT has managed to play the worst defense in the history of Texas football?

Major props for "voyeur football."

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Thatguy

Thatguy 8502

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2 hours ago, bschoolprof said:

Wait, you expect our defensive coordinator to actually, I don't know,  coordinate our entire defense? He's only getting paid $1.7 mill.  

West Virginia and Kansas are pretty dynamic - lulz. Of our 6 conference losses, only 1 (OU) came against a team in the top 25 in points per game nationally.   Big 12 offenses are not dynamic in a relative sense, at least not anymore.  

   RPOs, Running QBs, Power running games, Air raid, whatever the fuck you call what Riley runs, Sark's offense, Gundy's offense, inverted veers, this conference shows you something different every week. It is and has been a tough conference to defend in. What you run one week will not work vs the team you play next week. It has the most variety of offenses in any conference. The only thing holding it back is the talent level isn't what other conferences are. A lot of coaches don't see this level of difference from week to week, which I think exposes coaches who aren't detail oriented. Furthermore, the OCs in this conference pay attention, and mimic whomever you played the week prior if you struggled vs something. If you remember back when Diaz was here every team ran some form of lead or counter against us because they saw the lack of discipline against it. It's a pretty creative conference offensively.

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dcar00

dcar00 14035

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10 hours ago, Hookem2147 said:

We started 10 4th or 5th year players on defense for most of the season. 

Can’t wait for the youth excuse next season and saying the young guys need more time in the system. It takes a special type to defensive lineman to catch blocks in PK’s defense, it takes years to master it!

Its coming. the new/young players excuse is in the bullpen.

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Had Enough

Had Enough 2057

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Can't believe your defending a DC that was as bad if not worse than the worst DC we've ever had.

Not defending PK. I’m more of a stick up for the players dude.

Based on results, I’m bewildered as to how we were not so good. We played lots of dudes at lots of positions yet the results were often the same.

And I can’t say any of the defensive position coaches did worth a damn either. I just don’t see how nobody had their best year. Josh Thompson maybe? But the scheme left him as a non-factor. We had a lot of role players but no defensive stars. You need both, but I sure as heck would take all stars than all role players.
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HtownHorn

HtownHorn 14486

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10 hours ago, dcar00 said:

So is Terry Joseph just doing 2 high safeties because he wants to?  If PK doesn't want it but Joseph keeps doing it why hasn't Sark fired or demoted Joseph?

Since we can't fire Sark, PK needs to be fired.  Joseph can go as well I suppose.

Pretty sure it's what Joseph knows, he just had NFL safeties at ND and at Texas he had Schooler and Foster.

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JBJ

JBJ 3649

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On 11/27/2021 at 9:56 AM, bschoolprof said:

Foster loafed on the tackle as usual, but this was a big gainer mainly due to our LBs - Gbenda in particular. We're in a 4-2-5 look (with 4 actual down lineman) with a safety creeping up in run support at the snap.  Gbenda has bad eyes, bad feet, bad steps and is way out of position. The pulling lead blocker has no one to block. Just really bad fundamentals. 

5vpxge.gif

The NT sticks out to me most on this play.  Even with a half-way first step, he has initial leverage on the guard and just needs to keep driving into his gap.  It's like he chose to hide behind a blocker.

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dcar00

dcar00 14035

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45 minutes ago, JBJ said:

The NT sticks out to me most on this play.  Even with a half-way first step, he has initial leverage on the guard and just needs to keep driving into his gap.  It's like he chose to hide behind a blocker.

good point.  he "bites" on the fake to the RB.  he is never getting to the RB on a play like that unless he is called to slant that direction.

what is his job? it appears to be "occupy the guard". 

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Slacks

Slacks 6791

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15 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

good point.  he "bites" on the fake to the RB.  he is never getting to the RB on a play like that unless he is called to slant that direction.

what is his job? it appears to be "occupy the guard". 

yep. looks like chicken fight the guard to keep him there. 

Again, watch the LBs... they're 7 yds of the LOS. Ball is snapped... they both read the play fake and hop hop to the play fake... NEITHER sees pulling linemen and steps toward their run gap (I assume they have one)... it's like they're watching the game on TV and following the ball instead of watching the game in front of them.  If this is what they were coached, fire Choate & PK... but I don't suspect this is what is coached.

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JBJ

JBJ 3649

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13 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

good point.  he "bites" on the fake to the RB.  he is never getting to the RB on a play like that unless he is called to slant that direction.

what is his job? it appears to be "occupy the guard". 

With the center pulling, he ideally should beat the guard outright and run through the vacated gap, looking for the inside hip of the runner.   Getting pressure from the guard doesn't really change that.  He just has to hold him off to the left (while still moving right) to keep his hole-side shoulder clean.

These are zones, but the idea is the same:

https://i.imgur.com/iDVUINY.gif

NgFRQf.gif

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JBJ

JBJ 3649

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10 hours ago, Batteredfan said:

Recognizing this will cause pain, but anyone know if there is a good breakdown of the defensive scheme we played this season vs. PK / Lake at Washington? Hoping for an article or video talking about the differences. 

image.png.63edb9edbd154e27f09b9bac10df379a.png

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USNALonghorn

USNALonghorn 5024

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Toward the latter end of the year, and when it was reported in the Humidor how things worked in Washington, it was clear why the marriage wasn’t working. Blake Gideon wanted to disguise coverages, Terry Joseph wanted to play back in quarters, and Pete Kwiatkowski had a soft brand of quarters installed while running a wide variety of fronts and stunts which could spill the ball in different fashions. Add the extra chaotic element of poor linebacker fits on the edge and interior and you had a recipe for total disaster. The safeties had too much on their plates and were ineffective.

Definitely explains why there was a discrepancy between our defense and previous Washington defenses at the DB level. I would think/hope that something will have to give and at least one of TJ/Gideon will be let go during the off-season. 

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dcar00

dcar00 14035

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4 minutes ago, USNALonghorn said:

Definitely explains why there was a discrepancy between our defense and previous Washington defenses at the DB level. I would think/hope that something will have to give and at least one of TJ/Gideon will be let go during the off-season. 

I get that people want to blame the DB coaches this but if this coverage disconnect was happening all year Sark is fucking idiot and PK should not be your DC.  how can you let a DB coach dictate what happens on the back end for 12 games after you see the tire fire in game 2? 

what happens if no one is fired by Sark?

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C-Man

C-Man 27052

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6 hours ago, USNALonghorn said:

Same thing that happened to Charlie after he decided to keep Watson. (Dead man walking)

Perhaps. But Pete Kwiatkowski, despite what he ran out there for Texas this season, has a better track record than Shawn Watson did. Not saying he can turn it around in 2022 but I would have slightly more faith he could than Watson, who many knew was a failed bit from the minute he was brought here by Strong.

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Deej

Deej 76565

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6 hours ago, dcar00 said:

I get that people want to blame the DB coaches this but if this coverage disconnect was happening all year Sark is fucking idiot and PK should not be your DC.  how can you let a DB coach dictate what happens on the back end for 12 games after you see the tire fire in game 2? 

what happens if no one is fired by Sark?

Didn't we hire the DB coaches well before we ended up hiring PK? Seems like a recipe for disaster.

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USNALonghorn

USNALonghorn 5024

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34 minutes ago, C-Man said:

Perhaps. But Pete Kwiatkowski, despite what he ran out there for Texas this season, has a better track record than Shawn Watson did. Not saying he can turn it around in 2022 but I would have slightly more faith he could than Watson, who many knew was a failed bit from the minute he was brought here by Strong.

His track record IS better. However, the fact that this misalignment between PK and the DB coaches was tolerated for this long is a huge red flag and could be indicative of Sarks inability to manage all three facets of the game. Once again, we'll see how this is handled during the offseason.

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DFW Horn

DFW Horn 6118

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33 minutes ago, USNALonghorn said:

His track record IS better. However, the fact that this misalignment between PK and the DB coaches was tolerated for this long is a huge red flag and could be indicative of Sarks inability to manage all three facets of the game. Once again, we'll see how this is handled during the offseason.

Sark should let PK hire his guys, minimum, this offseason IF  he believes in his scheme. 

If not, PK should go.

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Gidnik

Gidnik 3251

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https://www.star-telegram.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/mac-engel/article256291472.html

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What was initially just a thought now has conversations behind it. According to sources, Texas and Gary Patterson have chatted about the former TCU head football coach joining Steve Sarkisian’s staff in some capacity, likely as a defensive analyst. One course close to Patterson said that he is not planning to make a “fast decision” and will weigh his options. For the last few years Patterson has told friends that whenever he left TCU he envisioned a scenario where he could join a coaching staff in this role, or potentially as a defensive coordinator. He would also like to be in a position to be a part of a team that won a national title. Texas’ current defensive coordinator is Pete Kwiatkowski, who has two years remaining on the three-year, $1.7 million contract he signed after he joined Sarkisian’s staff. According to sources, Patterson is kicking around a few different opportunities beyond just Texas. One potential scenario could have Patterson join Bob Stoops at Oklahoma if the now interim head coach of the Sooners decides to stay longer than just coaching the team through the bowl game. The Oklahoma job is technically vacant after Lincoln Riley left for USC, but the prevailing thought is if Stoops wants to come back for another go he would be welcome. Patterson and Stoops are friends, and a spot on that staff makes sense. It’s merely a question of what exactly Patterson wants to do professionally in 2022.  Texas makes sense for a variety of reasons. He is familiar with Texas athletic director Chris Del Conte; the two worked together for years before CDC left TCU for Austin in 2017. Patterson’s wife, Kelsey, is a Texas alum. The drive from his home in Fort Worth is only three hours to Austin. He’s made it clear Fort Worth is his home and he intends to keep it that way. By being an analyst, he would not have to recruit; the role of the analyst on coaching staffs have grown in the last 10 years. An “analyst” can interact with coaches, and the role is vaguely defined by the NCAA but they are not permitted to coach players. For a coach who wants to remain in the game but doesn’t want all of the headaches that come with being a head coach, or even a coordinator, it’s not a bad job. It could be an ideal fit for Patterson. Texas is not going to fire Sarkisian, and it’s doubtful he will dismiss his defensive coordinator even though the Longhorns had one of the worst defenses in 2021 FBS football. But Sarkisian has to do something. Hiring Patterson in any capacity will at the minimum be a good look. If he goes to Texas and helps Sarkisian turn around a team that finished 5-7 in 2021, it will only enhance a resume that doesn’t need much. Patterson may have not had good teams the past few seasons at TCU, but he is still regarded as one of the best defensive coaches the sport has ever seen. Several teams want Gary Patterson for that reason. Texas is one.

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Acropora

Acropora 856

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12 minutes ago, DFW Horn said:

Sark should let PK hire his guys, minimum, this offseason IF  he believes in his scheme. 

If not, PK should go.

Yup.  I mean, pk was historically bad but prior to that, consistently good.  While you would think someone elite would do better, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect that he'll revert back to good to great when allowed to get back into a comfort zone.  I think there's a lot of truth to him delegating the backend and given Joseph's track record, that dropoff plus the players we had didn't allow him to succeed.  Let him pick his db coach who can teach and execute 1 high man/cover 3 and see how he does.  GP, if available, would certainly be someone who can provide elite db coaching, good talent assessment and tips on how to succeed in the B12.  If not him, someone else that isn't hot garbage.  When hired, Coleman and Joseph were the question marks and now, 7 losses later, we are unfortunately right

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CHIEF

CHIEF 5072

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From the article in the second post of this thread:

Gary Patterson, one of these innovators and likely the inspiration for Coach K's Boise defenses, was among the earliest adopters of the Nickel as a base defense. 

As has been stated in several threads, make PK and Fat Pat Co-DCs, PK runs the front, Fat Pat the secondary.....show me a loss. A Bumpas/Patterson situation. Watching #6 TCU drill #9 Ole Miss (from the "By God" SEC) 42 to 3 in 2014 was incredible. The way they played in that game, just kept getting better towards the end of the season, it looked like there wasn't anyone in the country that could beat them. 

CHIEF

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Wishbone

Wishbone 4738

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Based on this past seasons results, there is no fucking downside to GP being involved in any capacity with our coaching staff next year. Barring any potential major dynamics that change our off season approach to the staff in the next week or so I for one would welcome any input he may be allowed.

Edited by Wishbone
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