I'll admit it, I'm getting a little depressed.

[TXSG8R 3362]

26 minutes ago, ztejas said:

I don't usually go in on threads like this, but, I agree with Brisket to some degree. I've been driving Uber and Lyft a lot and I get to see a pretty big cross section of people in Austin, at least - which isn't the most diverse city but it paints a decent picture. Sure there are plenty of shitheads and people that, in general, suck, but there are still a lot of great people in this country. Especially the younger generations I find are simply trying to make a living and do their best to exist and are really tired of all the bullshit. That doesn't necessarily mean they are all super involved in politics or fighting every battle that needs to be fought, but there is a large sentiment of "can't we all just get along? What the fuck is wrong with people?".

I guess if I had to label the demo it's everyone who hasn't made it yet - who has really struggled through this last year - that seems to have the right attitude and exemplifies what America should be about. They are working to make the most of their opportunity without putting others around them down. 

I remember thinking just last night that I still beleive in this country in a lot of ways. I gave a ride to a recently graduated international student from UT who is still trying to find a job and having a tough time with it - she plainly told me it can be depressing having to be isolated and having so much uncertainty about her future. Her English impressed me - as did her maturity. I gave a ride to an older black woman who had just missed her bus to get home - who lived in a very poor part of town. I gave a ride to a young hispanic girl who had dropped out of high school to help take care of her siblings but was working to get her GED and cosmetology license. I gave a ride to a girl who I assumed was a senior at St. Ed's interning or working her first job at the capitol, and we talked about the general insanity of all the increased security at the capitol and the drama of the election. We agreed on the point that "it sucks when a select few ruin it for the rest of us, huh?". 

It reminds me that we're all in this together and can't afford to be petty or hateful or divisive. Like I said, sure I get some vapid, self-involved assholes that make me weep a bit for our future - but those are generally outweighed by the good ones. The American Dream is still a thing. It might be tattered and not without shitstains but it's still there. 

Oh, and as mentioned above - take a break from the MSM cycle. If you get out in the thick of the day to day of this country it can paint a different picture. 

Its nice to think its a generational thing, but the younger generations of Rs are some of the worst examples of extremism in that party.  Maybe they are playing to the boomer base, but I doubt they shift much as they gain and attempt to hold onto power.  The persecution card seems to be their biggest play, which naturally leads to a fight or die mentality.  Accountability has become cancel culture.  Maintaining the separation of church and state guard rails has become christian persecution.  Enforcing laws against sexual or racial discrimination has become judicial activism.  Teaching science or fact based curriculum has become indoctrination.  

MSM doesn't matter anymore, social media is the bigger threat.  FN is doing its best to try to hang onto their boomer viewers, but they arent the real driver for the crazy anymore.  They are reacting to and maintaining trends, not setting them.  Social media drove trump into office, it was more responsible for 1/6 than the MSM, and will be responsible for the next big event that domestic terrorists attempt.  I'm just happy that FN hasn't done the math and tried to launch its own social media platform to fill the parler void.  

[Brisketexan 105159]

1 minute ago, ztejas said:

Nail on the head. No one is getting rich by 35 save the lucky or those that were born into privilege or opportunity. Wealth is shifting to the olds more than it ever has. 

The one interesting twist to all of this.....what's going to happen when those olds die and their wealth goes down to the next generation?

For example, my daughter recently observed, home on break from college, "I'm living in the nicest house, and wealthiest family, I'll ever live in....aren't I?"  Probably.  But we had to tell her that's fine.  There's a lot of room between where we are and the fear and desperation of poverty.  And she's okay with that.  But all of that said, presuming that we don't burn through all of our wealth, and what we'll inherit from my folks, they'll end up getting a decent chunk of change when we die.  Not "life-changing wealth," but some real security.

And looking at how much wealth boomers in general hold, that's going to happen in LOTS of cases.  How will that affect the economy and the next generation?  I dunno.  Just wondering out loud.

[DonkeyCigars 143]

6 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

The idea of being able to buy a house before 40 without help from parents is completely foreign to basically everyone I know, and basically everyone I know has a JD or a PHD. 

Maybe it's where you live; I could see this being the case for The City or California in San Diego or San Fran or Austin, but more the majority of folks you should be able to buy a $200k crappy house pretty easily it seems. I did starting out, not making particularly great money when I was younger, and as the sole income earner for a family with kids. I don't buy that it's impossible to get into a crappy starter house, get some equity, then sell it to get a nice house without the help of parents. ESPECIALLY if you have an advanced or terminal degree, which a lot of us do.

Granted you might have to leave Austin for Round Rock or somewhere equally lame and dull.

Edited January 28, 2021 by DonkeyCigars

[Biff Tannen 45691]

8 minutes ago, Herpa Derpa said:

I moved to a solid blue state a few years back. There’s still plenty of morons around, but it certainly helps the day to day mood that I no longer am governed by small-minded bigots that base their entire life on a criminal misuse of piety and faith.

Absent a real, external threat that takes a sizable percentage of the populace, there will be no changing of the tides. We’re stuck in this circle of hell. We are no longer educated enough to elevate and progress our society. We are a collection of idiots convinced of our own genius. The only prophet in my lifetime is Mike Judge. He warned us, and we just laughed. 

That's what sucks so bad about Texas.  I have literally no representation above the local level.

[Hawndoh 2386]

1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:

The one interesting twist to all of this.....what's going to happen when those olds die and their wealth goes down to the next generation?

For example, my daughter recently observed, home on break from college, "I'm living in the nicest house, and wealthiest family, I'll ever live in....aren't I?"  Probably.  But we had to tell her that's fine.  There's a lot of room between where we are and the fear and desperation of poverty.  And she's okay with that.  But all of that said, presuming that we don't burn through all of our wealth, and what we'll inherit from my folks, they'll end up getting a decent chunk of change when we die.  Not "life-changing wealth," but some real security.

And looking at how much wealth boomers in general hold, that's going to happen in LOTS of cases.  How will that affect the economy and the next generation?  I dunno.  Just wondering out loud.

And how much of that wealth will disappear into medical bills as those boomers cling to the last 12 months of their lives? 

End of life in this country can be extremely expensive unless the individual is willing to let go.

[Mdhorn 5974]

1 hour ago, SuingToGetAMessageBoard? said:

I think you are getting bummed at the exact wrong time.  The wave just crested, imo.  We are on the backside of this.  Think of the demographics that are driving this moronic behavior, and think of trendlines of those demographics.

 

I'm banking on this for hope.  

58 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

I don't know man.  There weren't that many olds with walkers that stormed the Capitol.

That was only 30k that showed up.  Opposition marches drew a hell of a lot more.  This was 2017 alone:

2017
Women's March: 1,500,000
March for Science: 40,000
People's Climate March: 200,000
March for Truth: 100,000

 

 

[Mole 4333]

1 hour ago, formermav43 said:

If you’ve never placed any hope in this country, it’s much easier to deal with.

I think we both come from similar perspectives about where we should ultimately place our hope, but it’s so disheartening, although not completely unexpected, to see so much of the suffering going on around us coming from people acting from that same hope. When cruelty and selfishness get spiritualized as righteousness and it’s your friends and people you love turning to it, that’s a bitter pill to swallow. It breaks my heart.

Largely though, things are so much better today than they were a few weeks ago. Some have doubled down, but I’ve seen the spell lifting somewhat.

[Brisketexan 105159]

Just now, Hawndoh said:

And how much of that wealth will disappear into medical bills as those boomers cling to the last 12 months of their lives? 

End of life in this country can be extremely expensive unless the individual is willing to let go.

Also a fair question.  Health care in this country is so goddamned bassackwards.  We spend more than anyone else, and have mediocre results as a whole.  It's indefensible....yet we have half the country literally willing to murder opposing politicians in order to preserve it because anything but what we have is COMMUNISM!

Our economy is totally fucking broken.  And healthcare is a huge part of that.  And we have half the country willing to murder anyone who would propose an alternate path.

[ztejas 43482]

2 minutes ago, TXSG8R said:

Its nice to think its a generational thing, but the younger generations of Rs are some of the worst examples of extremism in that party. 

Okay... but how many extremist Rs under the age of 30 do you know or interact with on a daily basis? I don't know you - so maybe you live in fuckstick Oklahoma or backwater Mississippi - but these people that you're referring to seem overly represented in the media and less so in the bulk of the populace. 

I think there are plenty of folks who got conned into voting for Trump that aren't extremists and maybe regret who they voted for. There are also plenty that blindly vote R because they are either ignorant or incapable of critical thinking - I understand that perhaps that makes them extremist by association but certainly not by nature.

[Mdhorn 5974]

48 minutes ago, DonkeyCigars said:

Maybe it's where you live; I could see this being the case for The City or California in San Diego or San Fran or Austin, but more the majority of folks you should be able to buy a $200k crappy house pretty easily it seems. I did starting out, not making particularly great money when I was younger, and as the sole income earner for a family with kids. I don't buy that it's impossible to get into a crappy starter house, get some equity, then sell it to get a nice house without the help of parents. ESPECIALLY if you have an advanced or terminal degree, which a lot of us do.

Granted you might have to leave Austin for Round Rock or somewhere equally lame and dull.

I think the difficulty is overcoming the hurdle that is a college bill for many.  If you live in the east--it's in the hundreds of thousands before grad school.  And everybody here pretty much has a masters degree in something.

Edited January 28, 2021 by Mdhorn

[Brisketexan 105159]

Just now, ztejas said:

Okay... but how many extremist Rs under the age of 30 do you know or interact with on a daily basis? I don't know you - so maybe you live in fuckstick Oklahoma or backwater Mississippi - but these people that you're referring to seem overly represented in the media and less so in the bulk of the populace. 

I think there are plenty of folks who got conned into voting for Trump that aren't extremists and maybe regret who they voted for. There are also plenty that blindly vote R because they are either ignorant or incapable of critical thinking - I understand that perhaps that makes them extremist by association but certainly not by nature.

Yeah, the 18-29 demo went against Trump 58-28 -- literally over 2-1 -- in the 2016 election.  Even 30-49 demo went 51-40 against Trump.  If we're talking about voters under the age of 50, we're a reasonably progressive country.  And yes, there will be SOME swing to the right as they age, but the margins are too big to overcome.

Which is actually terrifying.  The only path forward for the GOP, long-term, is some combo of disenfranchisement and outright seizure of power.  And that's their openly stated plan.

[ztejas 43482]

2 minutes ago, Mdhorn said:

I think the difficulty is overcoming the hurdle that is a college bill for many.  If you live in the east--it's in the hundreds of thousands before grad school.  And everybody her pretty much has a masters degree in something.

College debt is just one offender. Everything is getting more expensive and eating away at discretionary income and savings. The degree to which the cost of food has outpaced inflation is fucking insane.

[tantric superman 4667]

44 minutes ago, ztejas said:

I've been driving Uber and Lyft a lot and I get to see a pretty big cross section of people in Austin, at least - which isn't the most diverse city but it paints a decent picture. Sure there are plenty of shitheads and people that, in general, suck, but there are still a lot of great people in this country.

My new imagining of ztejas' view of the world...

 

[Js1 85426]

21 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Your idea that people get more conservative as they get older was a product of an economic reality that no longer exists.

That's also been pretty debunked - you tend to keep the same politics as your formative years.  A 40 year old liberal will still be a liberal at 60, just less liberal than a 20 year old would be.  That's a product of the times changing, but that 40 year old liberal will still likely vote Democrat as a 60 year old. 

[Mdhorn 5974]

56 minutes ago, MissingInAction said:

My last conversation with my father ended with him defending fascism and white supremacy. That along with accusing me of allowing my leftist associates to turn me against my own people. 

I didn't even respond after that. Just blocked him on every device I own and every social media account.

I know I will never speak to him again. 

It's sad.  Same with my mom--we don't talk.  She stated she wished things would return to the 50s.  There's no arguing with that rationale because she's white.  If she was African American or male and drafted, she'd have a far different take.  She was privileged and still is--her kids fund her healthcare and housing while she rails against socialism.    

[Biff Tannen 45691]

5 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Yeah, the 18-29 demo went against Trump 58-28 -- literally over 2-1 -- in the 2016 election.  Even 30-49 demo went 51-40 against Trump.  If we're talking about voters under the age of 50, we're a reasonably progressive country.  And yes, there will be SOME swing to the right as they age, but the margins are too big to overcome.

Which is actually terrifying.  The only path forward for the GOP, long-term, is some combo of disenfranchisement and outright seizure of power.  And that's their openly stated plan.

Remember this, it's very important.

[DonkeyCigars 143]

2 minutes ago, Js1 said:

That's also been pretty debunked - you tend to keep the same politics as your formative years.  A 40 year old liberal will still be a liberal at 60, just less liberal than a 20 year old would be.  That's a product of the times changing, but that 40 year old liberal will still likely vote Democrat as a 60 year old. 

To be fair I wasn't talking about some old man at 40's politics evolving as he grew into his station in life. I'm talking about the 18-25 year old who knows nothing of loss and gain, love and heartbreak, life and death. A 40 year old should be in, or close to, his prime earning years.

[Js1 85426]

Just now, DonkeyCigars said:

To be fair I wasn't talking about some old man at 40's politics evolving as he grew into his station in life. I'm talking about the 18-25 year old who knows nothing of loss and gain, love and heartbreak, life and death. A 40 year old should be in, or close to, his prime earning years.

That 18-25 year old who came of age under Obama is going to stay pretty liberal.  My peer group (30-34) graduated college into the Great Recession in our early 20s and had our formative years influenced by Bill Clinton's politics and then the Iraq War.  We are now making more money, buying houses, having kids, moving to the suburbs and still voting Democrat. 

[C-Man 27231]

11 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

The one interesting twist to all of this.....what's going to happen when those olds die and their wealth goes down to the next generation?

For example, my daughter recently observed, home on break from college, "I'm living in the nicest house, and wealthiest family, I'll ever live in....aren't I?"  Probably.  But we had to tell her that's fine.  There's a lot of room between where we are and the fear and desperation of poverty.  And she's okay with that.  But all of that said, presuming that we don't burn through all of our wealth, and what we'll inherit from my folks, they'll end up getting a decent chunk of change when we die.  Not "life-changing wealth," but some real security.

And looking at how much wealth boomers in general hold, that's going to happen in LOTS of cases.  How will that affect the economy and the next generation?  I dunno.  Just wondering out loud.

In a presentation a few years ago, Chubb said the coming wealth transfer is going to be unprecedented. Found this Forbes story on Google -- $30T will be transferred.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/markhall/2019/11/11/the-greatest-wealth-transfer-in-history-whats-happening-and-what-are-the-implications/?sh=446d72574090

Quote

Over the next two decades, the United States will experience an unprecedented shift of demographics and finances that will likely be felt by every American.

Baby Boomers, the generation of people born between 1944 and 1964, are expected to transfer $30 trillion in wealth to younger generations over the next many years. This jaw-dropping amount has led many journalists and financial experts to refer to the gradual event as the “great wealth transfer.”

In no prior time in the history of America has such a vast amount of wealth moved through the hands of generations.

As the baby boomer name suggests, this generation represented a sudden growth in population post World War II. After decades of prosperity and economic growth, this generation amassed significant financial wealth and control roughly 70% of all disposable income, according to a 2015 report by US News & World Report.

So, when this $30 trillion starts to change hands, what will this mean for everyone else?

The answer is complex and will be different depending on who you are and how much of that money is controlled by you, your parents or grandparents. Still, the effects will be far-reaching and will create opportunities for everyone.

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Experts are conflicted about where large sums may end up once it’s in the hands of heirs and beneficiaries because it will be largely influenced by the condition of the stock market at that time, as well as what tax and estate laws are on the books. Stocks and bonds may be a solid place to park money in right now but that doesn’t necessarily hold true tomorrow. 

Furthermore, as a 2018 study from Bankrate.com suggests, Millennials are less willing to invest money in the market than previous generations. This could signal a larger and long-term shift of wealth out of the market into other areas.

 

[TXSG8R 3362]

2 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Okay... but how many extremist Rs under the age of 30 do you know or interact with on a daily basis? I don't know you - so maybe you live in fuckstick Oklahoma or backwater Mississippi - but these people that you're referring to seem overly represented in the media and less so in the bulk of the populace. 

I think there are plenty of folks who got conned into voting for Trump that aren't extremists and maybe regret who they voted for. There are also plenty that blindly vote R because they are either ignorant or incapable of critical thinking - I understand that perhaps that makes them extremist by association but certainly not by nature.

I live in central Texas, Killeen / Hood area specifically.  I don't get as much exposure as you do driving uber but my side gig doing LV work I see lots of subs and homeowners, and of course, lots of soldiers and their families.  Trumpism is alive and well with people younger than me (mid 40s).  Plenty have the AOC/Pelosi should be hung mentality, and its not just whettos.  I also see a lot of mask-deniers in stores that I lump into extremism.  That's definitely a judgement by me, but I doubt there are many mask deniers driving trucks with "come and take it" and "trump/pence no more bullshit" stickers that don't subscribe to trump extremism.  

Regardless of how many "normal" Rs under 30 you are interacting with, they aren't the ones that are running for and winning these congressional seats.  They aren't the driving voices for that party, and wont be able to steer that party from the back.  Until they show up and change things, Ill believe what they are showing us.  

[Fudge Nuggets 19206]

57 minutes ago, MC Fresh Breath said:

 

I know this often gets conflated with "if so and so wins I'm moving," but I sometimes think about it in terms of "if we have a medical need when we're older, everything we have can get wiped out."  I remember reading some stat on the correlation between cancer diagnoses and bankruptcy.  I wasn't pretty.  I don't know where I would go, though.  And I very much enjoy where I am, currently.  And I have 50 years of being an ugly american under my belt.  And then there is the knowledge that I will want to be within range of my kids.  

So, while I may share the sentiment, I don't think I could handle the execution.

In my case I put in 16 years working as an expat in places both awesome and shitty so I know I can pull it off. Hell, I started hoping for another expat assignment within a week of returning but those don’t exist for now. 
 

Things were already going downhill when I first left in 2003. When I came back in 2019 I realized this wasn’t the same America I left all those years ago. Sure the country is always changing and in the past it usually changed for the better. Not the case over the last roughly 20 years. 

[MissingInAction 25110]

19 minutes ago, Mdhorn said:

It's sad.  Same with my mom--we don't talk.  She stated she wished things would return to the 50s.  There's no arguing with that rationale because she's white.  If she was African American or male and drafted, she'd have a far different take.  She was privileged and still is--her kids fund her healthcare and housing while she rails against socialism.    

Same with pops. He worked in the public sector his entire life, and now collects a pension. The fucking hypocrite has zero self awareness. 

Just a mush brain full of propaganda. 

[Dbeasy 15071]

I’m glad OP posted this thread. Many, including me, are pretty down about the country’s outlook right now. The true root cause of the problem is people not realizing they are watching and listening to propaganda. Fake information. And even worse than that, they don’t realize that many of the people running around claiming “fake news” are the biggest liars of all of them. 

The only way out of this is to have organizations that somehow are able to convince people about what’s happening with these disinformation campaigns. But the likelihood of that right now looks pretty low. 

[MissingInAction 25110]

The problem is these simpletons love the propaganda.  It is exactly what they want to hear. It appeals to all of their base fears and prejudices. It validates their awfulness.

[Goredho 17409]

I am purposefully becoming less active here and with politics in general.  Not because there isn't shit to be gravely concerned about and anything stated here by the regulars is wrong, but because staying in a state of hyper-agitation over what has happened, what is happening and what may happen in the future is not good for my mental health.

Basically, all politics and no play makes me a dull fucking asshole.  For now, Democracy has prevailed, and I need a break.  I'll tune back in as the mid-terms approach to see if the GOP is still embracing a platform inclusive of white nationalists goose-stepping all over the constitution and act/vote accordingly.

[ztejas 43482]

26 minutes ago, tantric superman said:

My new imagining of ztejas' view of the world...

 

[ztejas 43482]

11 minutes ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

Things were already going downhill when I first left in 2003. When I came back in 2019 I realized this wasn’t the same America I left all those years ago.

Yeah. Tim Duncan retired and Bama is back to being a national powerhouse. It's a bleak reality.

[Brisketexan 105159]

3 minutes ago, MissingInAction said:

The problem is these simpletons love the propaganda.  It is exactly what they want to hear. It appeals to all of their base fears and prejudices. It validates their awfulness.

It's really this simple.  A huge chunk of our country is addicted to self-validating propaganda as if it was a drug.  Why would they quit snorting fake news?  It feels fucking GREAT!  Makes em feel 10 feet tall, like they can take on the world!  SHOOT ANTIFA!  EXECUTE THE TRAITOR DEMS!  YEEHAAAAAHHH!!!!!!

They won't quit consuming it.  They can't be brought back to rationality.  They are your meth-head cousin, man -- they're gone.

[Hookah Horns 3083]

35 minutes ago, ztejas said:

 

I think there are plenty of folks who got conned into voting for Trump that aren't extremists and maybe regret who they voted for. 

This last election and polls following 1/6 tell us there aren't a whole hell of a lot. This is one of the most depressing facts of all. 

[Js1 85426]

Just now, Hookah Horns said:

This last election and polls following 1/6 tell us there aren't a whole hell of a lot. This is one of the most depressing facts of all. 

Yeah like 30% of Republicans, maybe? 

So you can basically breakdown America as:

53% didn't vote or can't vote
25% voted for Biden and are clearly sane and normal
15% voted for Trump because they love Trump - fucking insane people
7% just voted for Trump because there's an R next to his name

[Dbeasy 15071]

8 minutes ago, Goredho said:

I am purposefully becoming less active here and with politics in general.  Not because there isn't shit to be gravely concerned about and anything stated here by the regulars is wrong, but because staying in a state of hyper-agitation over what has happened, what is happening and what may happen in the future is not good for my mental health.

Basically, all politics and no play makes me a dull fucking asshole.  For now, Democracy has prevailed, and I need a break.  I'll tune back in as the mid-terms approach to see if the GOP is still embracing a platform inclusive of white nationalists goose-stepping all over the constitution and act/vote accordingly.

I’ve actually been contemplating starting a company to address disinformation but so far I’ve balked at it because I don’t think I or my wife can handle the mental stress of dealing with so many dumb people. 

[C-Man 27231]

8 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

I’m glad OP posted this thread. Many, including me, are pretty down about the country’s outlook right now. The true root cause of the problem is people not realizing they are watching and listening to propaganda. Fake information. And even worse than that, they don’t realize that many of the people running around claiming “fake news” are the biggest liars of all of them. 

The only way out of this is to have organizations that somehow are able to convince people about what’s happening with these disinformation campaigns. But the likelihood of that right now looks pretty low. 

 

4 minutes ago, MissingInAction said:

The problem is these simpletons love the propaganda.  It is exactly what they want to hear. It appeals to all of their base fears and prejudices. It validates their awfulness.

All of this. As a former journalist, it saddens me that the most lasting "legacy" of Trump is that he's created an inherent distrust in old guard media. I cribbed this from a former colleague's (Richie Whitt) terrific post on Facebook on 1/20. He was bringing attention to two of Trump's "biggest lies" that he'll never forgive or forget (his healthcare "plan" being the other).

Quote

*ATTACKING THE FREE PRESS: Because his thin skin and debilitating insecurity couldn't handle the truth or even a shred of criticism, he tossed a suffocating blanket of "fake news" over the media and labeled us "the enemy of the people." That dangerous rejection of facts, debunked conspiracy theories and legitimate election results, in turn, fomented a legion of ignorant, brainwashed cult members that received their version of the truth from one man. Hence, the riots at the Capitol.

 

[Goredho 17409]

Just now, Dbeasy said:

I’ve actually been contemplating starting a company to address disinformation but so far I’ve balked at it because I don’t think I or my wife can handle the mental stress of dealing with so many dumb people. 

It has been hard not to completely lose faith in humanity.  In that respect, I'm adopting a fake reality for awhile.  Or more accurately the mental peace of a blissful political ignorance.

[Brisketexan 105159]

2 minutes ago, Goredho said:

It has been hard not to completely lose faith in humanity.  In that respect, I'm adopting a fake reality for awhile.  Or more accurately the mental peace of a blissful political ignorance.

I recommend a fake reality in which you spend time on a porch swing in a nice spring breeze, sipping juleps with the lovely Sela Ward.  That's the one I've chosen.  Feel free to freelance your own.

[Mdhorn 5974]

9 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

I’m glad OP posted this thread. Many, including me, are pretty down about the country’s outlook right now. The true root cause of the problem is people not realizing they are watching and listening to propaganda. Fake information. And even worse than that, they don’t realize that many of the people running around claiming “fake news” are the biggest liars of all of them. 

The only way out of this is to have organizations that somehow are able to convince people about what’s happening with these disinformation campaigns. But the likelihood of that right now looks pretty low. 

My fav is the "My family is drinking hydroxychloroquine--why are y'all getting Covid vaccinations?"  Maybe look into why the leaders that misinformed you are all voluntarily getting covid vaccinations.  And yes, this is an actual conversation I had this morning with a manager regarding an employee back in Texas.  The owner is getting ready to fire them shortly for refusing to get vaccinated.   

[Hookah Horns 3083]

5 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

I’ve actually been contemplating starting a company to address disinformation but so far I’ve balked at it because I don’t think I or my wife can handle the mental stress of dealing with so many dumb people. 

How would you go about doing that, out of curiosity? I've been thinking about it quite a bit and can't think of anything that would be effective. I mean, these people dismiss Snopes and all other fact checkers out of hand as being a bunch of libtards. 

[Brisketexan 105159]

1 minute ago, Hookah Horns said:

How would you go about doing that, out of curiosity? I've been thinking about it quite a bit and can't think of anything that would be effective. I mean, these people dismiss Snopes and all other fact checkers out of hand as being a bunch of libtards. 

From what I understand of the viewing proclivities of MAGAs, I would think that embedded ad links in interracial porn videos would be a good start.

[Goredho 17409]

1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:

I recommend a fake reality in which you spend time on a porch swing in a nice spring breeze, sipping juleps with the lovely Sela Ward.  That's the one I've chosen.  Feel free to freelance your own.

Which brings up another thing about the fake reality being bought into by conservatives hooked on Fox news.  What does their Utopia even look like?  All I can see in the America Trump was creating is strife, violence, hate, hurt, fear, anger and destruction.  What better America would they exist in if they could control literally every position of power like they demand?

[Foosters 17858]

1 hour ago, wildcat09 said:

The idea of being able to buy a house before 40 without help from parents is completely foreign to basically everyone I know, and basically everyone I know has a JD or a PHD. 

Most of my colleagues have been practicing attorneys for over a decade. A of their spouses have full time jobs too. Maybe 10% own. The rest are still saving for that first down payment.

Self-selecting anecdote here, but I'm 38 and almost everyone I associate with has veered far left.

[Foosters 17858]

7 minutes ago, Hookah Horns said:

How would you go about doing that, out of curiosity? I've been thinking about it quite a bit and can't think of anything that would be effective. I mean, these people dismiss Snopes and all other fact checkers out of hand as being a bunch of libtards. 

I liked your idea of media literacy classes in high school. I'd probably quit my job to do something like that, TBH

Edited January 28, 2021 by Foosters

[Mdhorn 5974]

2 minutes ago, Goredho said:

Which brings up another thing about the fake reality being bought into by conservatives hooked on Fox news.  What does their Utopia even look like?  All I can see in the America Trump was creating is strife, violence, hate, hurt, fear, anger and destruction.  What better America would they exist in if they could control literally every position of power like they demand?

The world already fought against that utopia from 1939-1945.  Their utopia dream crashed, along with their "youth" soldiers and yesterday was International Holocaust Remembrance Day.    

Edited January 28, 2021 by Mdhorn

[DonkeyCigars 143]

47 minutes ago, Js1 said:

That 18-25 year old who came of age under Obama is going to stay pretty liberal.  My peer group (30-34) graduated college into the Great Recession in our early 20s and had our formative years influenced by Bill Clinton's politics and then the Iraq War.  We are now making more money, buying houses, having kids, moving to the suburbs and still voting Democrat. 

We are the same age group and spent the exact same years on the 40 acres and West Campus it sounds like. We are doing the same things as you, except not voting Democrat.

I guess it's about the company you keep and everyone has a biodome.

[Snake Diggity 4625]

1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

The one interesting twist to all of this.....what's going to happen when those olds die and their wealth goes down to the next generation?

For example, my daughter recently observed, home on break from college, "I'm living in the nicest house, and wealthiest family, I'll ever live in....aren't I?"  Probably.  But we had to tell her that's fine.  There's a lot of room between where we are and the fear and desperation of poverty.  And she's okay with that.  But all of that said, presuming that we don't burn through all of our wealth, and what we'll inherit from my folks, they'll end up getting a decent chunk of change when we die.  Not "life-changing wealth," but some real security.

And looking at how much wealth boomers in general hold, that's going to happen in LOTS of cases.  How will that affect the economy and the next generation?  I dunno.  Just wondering out loud.

This is one of many things that give me hope.

 

2 things that give me hope in the Short term:

Massive pent up demand from covid will likely result in an economic boom and general optimism that most of us have never experienced.

Having survived Trumps term so far, many more centrist or progressive voters have engaged and will likely sway elections over the next half decade.  Many center-right or far right non-violent voters are abandoning Trumpism.

Things that give me hope for the long term:

The generations behind me (people under 35) are the first to grow up with access to the internet.  They are the smartest generations we’ve ever produced.  There are many bad things that came with it, but my opinion, based mostly on anecdotes but also on data, is that the kids are alright.  They are smart, and they are kind.  And they have the broadest worldview yet.

There will be a massive transfer of wealth over the next 20 years from people who skew conservative (boomers) to people who skew progressive (Gen X thru Gen Z) as boomers die off.  Many progressive goals are inevitable.  Trump is 74, AOC is 31.

This may seem out there but I believe the technological singularity is near (or even already passed), and I believe this will be overwhelmingly positive for humanity.  The next 50 years could very well see the end of almost every source of current human suffering.

 

Edited January 28, 2021 by Snake Diggity

[Goredho 17409]

4 minutes ago, Mdhorn said:

The world already fought against that utopia in 1939-1945.  Their utopia dream crashed, along with their "youth" soldiers and yesterday was International Holocaust Remembrance Day.    

I realize there are some people that believe that, but no one that I know who personally voted for Trump is a neo-Nazi.  They believe in conservative policies and voted for that while holding their nose and having some amount of internal conflict about it. I just can't see what they see as the good that came about from any of the conservative policies enacted by Trump.  I guess stock portfolios did pretty good over his 4 years, but literally everything else became a steaming pile of shit that was empirically worse than what he inherited from Obama.

['stache 21821]

It was a fun experiment, but I don't think the USA can exist too much longer with the Senate and Electoral College as it currently exists. The minority is literally running things and they happen to be the ones who are against progress. The President won the popular vote by one of the larger margins in history, yet the Senate needed a miracle to get a tie. The last I saw, 60% of Americans are against banning abortion, but we now have 6 members of SCOTUS who will very soon be overruling Roe v Wade (Roberts might respect stare decisis but the other 5 are almost certain to overturn Roe as soon as they have a chance). Republicans have gerrymandered states to an absurd degree where, for example, in Wisconsin democrats won 60% of the votes for statewide offices but are a minority in the state legislature, by a lot. The majority can only take so much suppression of voting rights and burying of civil rights before something explodes. The magats who stormed the Capitol had fake grievances, our grievances are very real. This is unsustainable and will come to a head in the next decade or two I think.

[smuggs 9353]

26 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

I’ve actually been contemplating starting a company to address disinformation but so far I’ve balked at it because I don’t think I or my wife can handle the mental stress of dealing with so many dumb people. 

You're going to start a company with your wife, but it's the mental stress of dealing with other people that worries you?

 

[Dbeasy 15071]

17 minutes ago, Hookah Horns said:

How would you go about doing that, out of curiosity? I've been thinking about it quite a bit and can't think of anything that would be effective. I mean, these people dismiss Snopes and all other fact checkers out of hand as being a bunch of libtards. 

It’s a great question and I don’t have a full answer. Many months ago, I thought back to my own journey on disinformation. In the early 1990’s I was seduced by Rush Limbaugh. He’s a very talented radio personality who can get people to believe the most outlandish things, just like many of the Fox News personalities. 

I personally didn’t become fully aware of the Fox News, MSNBC, Rush, etc. biased media effect until 2014/15, which I realize is very late. Most people just don’t think that hard about it. They just listen to what their friends and family say. I was one of them, but because I’m an independent, I wasn’t disconnected from reality like many.  

So a few months ago, instead of arguing with people over specific news items, I started posted media bias charts on Facebook and Twitter. Instead of trying to convince them the information was fake, I tried to make them aware that the sources were unreliable. 

I noticed that a small number of the smarter folks started figuring it out. The dumb people just stayed dumb. I believe over a long period of time that a small number of highly influential people will start changing the minds of their friends and families. It’s going to take awhile, but I believe it’s possible. 

Lately I’ve been investigating using AI and software to accelerate that approach. 

Politicians with integrity could have accelerated all of this. If the Republicans hadn’t allowed all of this constant lying by Trump, the awakening would have happened 10x faster. But because they don’t have integrity, it has to be done the slow way. 

[Dbeasy 15071]

7 minutes ago, smuggs said:

You're going to start a company with your wife, but it's the mental stress of dealing with other people that worries you?

 

Ha, no. The concern is the stress of coming home bitching about all the idiots I’d have to deal with every day. 

[DigglerontheHoof 21204]

1 hour ago, TXSG8R said:

Its nice to think its a generational thing, but the younger generations of Rs are some of the worst examples of extremism in that party.  Maybe they are playing to the boomer base, but I doubt they shift much as they gain and attempt to hold onto power.  The persecution card seems to be their biggest play, which naturally leads to a fight or die mentality.  Accountability has become cancel culture.  Maintaining the separation of church and state guard rails has become christian persecution.  Enforcing laws against sexual or racial discrimination has become judicial activism.  Teaching science or fact based curriculum has become indoctrination.  

MSM doesn't matter anymore, social media is the bigger threat.  FN is doing its best to try to hang onto their boomer viewers, but they arent the real driver for the crazy anymore.  They are reacting to and maintaining trends, not setting them.  Social media drove trump into office, it was more responsible for 1/6 than the MSM, and will be responsible for the next big event that domestic terrorists attempt.  I'm just happy that FN hasn't done the math and tried to launch its own social media platform to fill the parler void.  

Yep, just go to rural areas.  The younger generation is just as bad as their parents and grandparents.  They watch the same "news" and the same algorithms rule their echo chambers.  

[TXSG8R 3362]

35 minutes ago, Snake Diggity said:

This is one of many things that give me hope.

 

2 things that give me hope in the Short term:

Massive pent up demand from covid will likely result in an economic boom and general optimism that most of us have never experienced.

Having survived Trumps term so far, many more centrist or progressive voters have engaged and will likely sway elections over the next half decade.  Many center-right or far right non-violent voters are abandoning Trumpism.

Things that give me hope for the long term:

The generations behind me (people under 35) are the first to grow up with access to the internet.  They are the smartest generations we’ve ever produced.  There are many bad things that came with it, but my opinion, based mostly on anecdotes but also on data, is that the kids are alright.  They are smart, and they are kind.  And they have the broadest worldview yet.

There will be a massive transfer of wealth over the next 20 years from people who skew conservative (boomers) to people who skew progressive (Gen X thru Gen Z) as boomers die off.  Many progressive goals are inevitable.  Trump is 74, AOC is 31.

This may seem out there but I believe the technological singularity is near (or even already passed), and I believe this will be overwhelmingly positive for humanity.  The next 50 years could very well see the end of almost every source of current human suffering.

 

Man I wish I could get on board, but I feel like suffering is baked into the system because of greed.  For every good kid with an expanded worldview there seems to be a dogshit media influencer that cares more about likes and follower counts than anything else. I’m also worried about the apathy that our system drives.  Electoral college drives reduced turnout in elections. Reduced turnout favors the olds, especially at the local level. Local politics drives gerrymandering and all the state bullshit that feeds up into national politics.

I also think that as smart as our kids are, there’s a lot of entitlement and apathy towards that technology that’s carrying them to new heights. For every STEM kid there’s probably 5 that couldn't tell you the difference between WiFi and cellular data on their phone. It’s all just “internet.” Those are the kids that see all social media as “news” and fall down the Q rabbit holes.

I hope I’m just a pessimist and you’re right though.