The US and Korea

[WhatTheBuck 28797]

If you like your dictatorship, you can keep your dictatorship. 

[Anastasis 23481]

Just now, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Capitulating with a Summit for a third rate brutal dictator is a great way to progress the ideals of human rights and democracy.

How cute.  You still believe that American foreign policy has anything to do with the ideals of human rights and democracy. 

[Anastasis 23481]

double post

Edited May 3, 2018 by Anastasis

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

13 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

How cute.  You still believe that American foreign policy has anything to do with the ideals of human rights and democracy. 

Not under the current “principled realism” foreign policy framework.

But we did and we should. 

Good troll though.

[Anastasis 23481]

Just now, Hugo Stiglitz said:

 But we did and we should. 

 

Yeah, when exactly was that? Was it the time before we were installing military dictators?  Or maybe after we were genociding the native americans? Somewhere in there I am sure. 

[Amobie 58]

If you aren't willing to talk to Kim, then there is no possible way this ends without bloodshed.  We need to try to avoid bloodshed.  Diplomacy is about getting a result that ends with both sides winning and it looks like South and North Korea are on that path.  Let's hope that demands made by external forces (China and the USA) don't fuck that up.  The best solution is for the country to become one once again like they did with Germany.  Both sides want it.

Edited May 3, 2018 by Amobie

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

8 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Yeah, when exactly was that? Was it the time before we were installing military dictators?  Or maybe after we were genociding the native americans? Somewhere in there I am sure. 

WWII and most of the Cold War.

But keep your America Evil Empire narrative going, plenty of mistakes to support that position and plenty of suckers to buy into it.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

2 minutes ago, Amobie said:

If you aren't willing to talk to Kim, then there is no possible way this ends without bloodshed.  We need to try to avoid bloodshed. 

Bullshit. You cripple NK and their enablers with sanctions and political pressure until they fix the problem or the NK people rise up and overthrow Kim Jong Un. 

If we’re appeasing pieces of shit like lil’ Kim with Summits, we’re doing this Super Power thing all wrong.

[Anastasis 23481]

Just now, Hugo Stiglitz said:

WWII and most of the Cold War.

 But keep your America Evil Empire narrative going, plenty of mistakes to support that position and plenty of suckers to buy into it.

I'll grant you WWII. But Cold War?  That's your example of the high point in display of American ideals through our foreign policy?  Talk about trolling. 

And it's not an America Evil Empire narrative.  It's a "don't be naive when discussing the realities of American foreign policy objectives" narrative. 

[Pig Bellmont 8732]

There is no world where a unified Korea will be a thing. 

Can someone explain what NK is giving up for removal of US troops at DMZ? (That’s what ending the Korean War is about.) Is it just testing and taking down known test sites? Because you know who doesn’t test nukes - all countries that have faith their nukes will work. 

Nevermind people trying to credit Trump for anything. What a diplomatic genius with his insults on Twitter and at the UN. *eyeroll* NK is using him as a useful idiot and we don’t have a State Department to properly warn him otherwise 

[Mojo Hand 4580]

Nobody is against talking to Kim.  Well, except for all the Republicans who were all over Obama when he said it would be OK for the US president to talk to Kim and other enemy leaders, but they've all had a sudden and inexplicable change of heart on that.

The issue is that the president who will be talking to Kim is a complete moron who has and will sell out the country in a split second if he can get a personal benefit out of it.   And NK's actions make no sense except as part of an effort to exploit DOTUS's many flaws and weaknesses. 

[Amobie 58]

8 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Bullshit. You cripple NK and their enablers with sanctions and political pressure until they fix the problem or the NK people rise up and overthrow Kim Jong Un. 

If we’re appeasing pieces of shit like lil’ Kim with Summits, we’re doing this Super Power thing all wrong.

Okay and that overthrow will result in an unstable NK and will absolutely result in bloodshed without question.  Every single time we've done it that way, we've ended up with another dipshit in charge and many times the results were worse.  See Iran.  We leave the situation alone and we end up with Vietnam.

8 minutes ago, Pig Bellmont said:

There is no world where a unified Korea will be a thing. 

Can someone explain what NK is giving up for removal of US troops at DMZ? (That’s what ending the Korean War is about.) Is it just testing and taking down known test sites? Because you know who doesn’t test nukes - all countries that have faith their nukes will work.

Where did you hear US troops were leaving?  It's not a precondition for the deal.

Back from April 20th.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/19/asia/north-korea-us-forces-korean-peninsula-intl/index.html

Again from yesterday.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/north-korea-south-us-troops-trump-moon-jae-in-withdraw-summit-a8332046.html

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

15 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

I'll grant you WWII. But Cold War?  That's your example of the high point in display of American ideals through our foreign policy?  Talk about trolling. 

And it's not an America Evil Empire narrative.  It's a "don't be naive when discussing the realities of American foreign policy objectives" narrative. 

I said most of the Cold War.

There were plenty of portions of the Cold War where we chose realism to prop up dictators as opposed to letting them fall into communist hands. 

But much of the Cold War was spreading liberal democracy through diplomacy and containing Communism. 

 

[Pig Bellmont 8732]

I only was suggesting that NK is seeking for US troops to be leaving as a part of the peace talks and/or denuclearization talks. Not that such an agreement was already made 

My point is that as of now NK has not given up anything tangible to warrant any credit and further that they have not sacrificed anything of value to justify their requests for US troops to leave 

[David Dennison 18946]

1 hour ago, Amobie said:

What the fuck are you talking about?  This shit is all over the news that the North wants to reunify with the South.  Considering it's a 2:1 population ratio in favor of the South, are you really that stupid to think Kim thinks he will win an election?

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/05/01/north-koreans-speak-hope-unification-propaganda-speakers-dismantled/

“Right now you can just stop anywhere and hear talk of unification all around you”

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/03/north-korea-seeks-closer-south-korea-ties-reunification-180306062814201.html

 

They are saying their goal is unification.  That's a fact, not some tinfoil hatter response.

 

You do realize that reunification from the North Korean perspective means all of Korea being North Korea, right?

[Amobie 58]

31 minutes ago, Pig Bellmont said:

I only was suggesting that NK is seeking for US troops to be leaving as a part of the peace talks and/or denuclearization talks. Not that such an agreement was already made 

My point is that as of now NK has not given up anything tangible to warrant any credit and further that they have not sacrificed anything of value to justify their requests for US troops to leave 

They just released 3 US prisoners ahead of the summit and US troops haven't left.  Most likely they already have a deal in place.

[David Dennison 18946]

Just now, Amobie said:

They just released 3 US prisoners ahead of the summit and US troops haven't left.  Most likely they already have a deal in place.

What do you think that deal is?

[Mojo Hand 4580]

Look, if Trump got NK to release the hostages as a precondition to the talks, with no other significant commitments by us, well done.   Not quite Nobel Prize worthy, and we've gotten hostages released before, but it's still a good thing and the way a meeting like this should be done.  If it's supposed to be more than that, we need to know what we gave up to assess what it means. 

Edited May 3, 2018 by Mojo Hand

[Pig Bellmont 8732]

Who trusts Trump to adequately outline terms for proper international inspection and monitoring of denuclearization? Does anyone believe he’s mastered the details here? 

Lol at the idea a deal is already in place. This is a guy who tells classified info to hostile foreign powers and trips over himself to give himself credit for the smallest achievements. There’s no way he’s wrapped up “a deal” and is keeping quiet about it 

[David Dennison 18946]

5 minutes ago, Pig Bellmont said:

Who trusts Trump to adequately outline terms for proper international inspection and monitoring of denuclearization? Does anyone believe he’s mastered the details here? 

Lol at the idea a deal is already in place. This is a guy who tells classified info to hostile foreign powers and trips over himself to give himself credit for the smallest achievements. There’s no way he’s wrapped up “a deal” and is keeping quiet about it 

They know who they are dealing with. This is the best time for everyone not named Donald Trump to get what they want.

The best deals.

[FondrenRoad 4378]

2 hours ago, Amobie said:

If the 2 countries are unified and democratic, it doesn't matter what NK does with their nukes.  South Korea has twice the population of the North so I don' t think we have much to worry about.

I think Kim understands that at some point, his family is going to lose control over the country.  Even if he keeps and iron grip, his sons or grandsons will eventually lose and his entire family probably ends up dead.  He was educated in the West and knows how fucked up his country is even if his people don't.  If he exits now, he's go down in history like Gorbachev instead of a Gaddafi or Saddam.

Why would SK want to unify?  It would be a foolish endeavor to increase your population instantly by 50% by adding only people that would be the most impoverished and least educated among your total populace.  They'd also be adding a brainwashed voting bloc that would amount to 1/3 of their total combined population.  These new voters would be extremely disruptive to SK governance and would change the entire direction of the country.

This doesn't really compare to German unification.  For 1, East Germany had a decent education system.  For 2, East Germany was only 25% of the total population.  For 3, East Germans were indoctrinated on communist economics, but had nothing like nutso Juche. And even still, East Germany struggles with ethnic nationalists who seek to undermine Germany's gains, although I know you see that as a positive rather than a negative.

[SquishMitten 10425]

1 hour ago, Mojo Hand said:

Nobody is against talking to Kim.  Well, except for all the Republicans who were all over Obama when he said it would be OK for the US president to talk to Kim and other enemy leaders, but they've all had a sudden and inexplicable change of heart on that.

The issue is that the president who will be talking to Kim is a complete moron who has and will sell out the country in a split second if he can get a personal benefit out of it.   And NK's actions make no sense except as part of an effort to exploit DOTUS's many flaws and weaknesses. 

Logic and history indicate your conclusion is likely correct. However, all things considered, you can’t entirely rule out the possibility that NK is legitimately worried for their own survival for the first time in decades. Hell, we only saw tweets and most of us were deeply concerned Trump might just fire off a nuke. It’s not totally unreasonable to think he got close to actually doing it.

[David Dennison 18946]

4 minutes ago, SquishMitten said:

Logic and history indicate your conclusion is likely correct. However, all things considered, you can’t entirely rule out the possibility that NK is legitimately worried for their own survival for the first time in decades. Hell, we only saw tweets and most of us were deeply concerned Trump might just fire off a nuke. It’s not totally unreasonable to think he got close to actually doing it.

Really? That's actually the last thing in the world I worry about because I know he can't do it himself.

[SquishMitten 10425]

To a bigger point, I’ve spent the last decade pissed off at how many Republicans refused to give Obama the slightest bit of credit for any good he did, immediately shitting on him, and calling every action a failure before it was even implemented. The utter hypocrisy we now see from those same folks is infuriating. Deep down, I really want to do the same shit, but that doesn’t get us anywhere. I loathe this orange fuck, but if (I said if, shut the fuck up) some sort of peaceful resolution comes out of this, then I will happily give credit where due. We have to stop taking an immediate defensive/opposing position just because of the party in charge. Shitting on the president for everything, even when good, only weakens your valid complaints about something they did wrong.

[David Dennison 18946]

Just now, SquishMitten said:

To a bigger point, I’ve spent the last decade pissed off at how many Republicans refused to give Obama the slightest bit of credit for any good he did, immediately shitting on him, and calling every action a failure before it was even implemented. The utter hypocrisy we now see from those same folks is infuriating. Deep down, I really want to do the same shit, but that doesn’t get us anywhere. I loathe this orange fuck, but if (I said if, shut the fuck up) some sort of peaceful resolution comes out of this, then I will happily give credit where due. We have to stop taking an immediate defensive/opposing position just because of the party in charge. Shitting on the president for everything, even when good, only weakens your valid complaints about something they did wrong.

Politics ain't bean bag.

[WhatTheBuck 28797]

6 minutes ago, SquishMitten said:

Logic and history indicate your conclusion is likely correct. However, all things considered, you can’t entirely rule out the possibility that NK is legitimately worried for their own survival for the first time in decades. Hell, we only saw tweets and most of us were deeply concerned Trump might just fire off a nuke. It’s not totally unreasonable to think he got close to actually doing it.

Neither Trump nor Kim was ever going to launch a pre-emptive nuclear strike. Or any other kind of offensive military action. China made that perfectly clear when they said they'd defend N. Korea if America attacked first and if N. Korea attacked first then they were on their own.

[Mojo Hand 4580]

11 minutes ago, SquishMitten said:

Logic and history indicate your conclusion is likely correct. However, all things considered, you can’t entirely rule out the possibility that NK is legitimately worried for their own survival for the first time in decades. Hell, we only saw tweets and most of us were deeply concerned Trump might just fire off a nuke. It’s not totally unreasonable to think he got close to actually doing it.

I can rule it out because Kim ignored Trump's threats and fired off a dozen missiles in response.  He only stopped once he had successfully tested his full capability to hit the US with nukes.  I'm honestly open-minded.  I want Trump to succeed in denuclearizing NK, even though I hate him as president.   Just give me one remotely plausible explanation for how Kim could be giving up his nukes out of fear Trump will make good on his threats that would also be consistent with Kim firing off rockets in response to those threats.

[WhatTheBuck 28797]

Someone needs to explain to me how having someone call your bluff is a negotiating tactic to be celebrated. 

[skeeter 454]

 

[Caracara 41]

Kim met with Pompeo. Kim walked to Moon,. Kim changed his clocks to Moon's time.  Kim says their nuke days are winding down. Kim releasing hostages. Moon says USA should stay. Moon says Trump is responsible for strides to peace. 

Kim is capitulating.  he's not calling Trump's bluff. He's being allowed to save face and stay alive, before he and his step aside.   Trump's supposed concession is that he'll be presiding over all this and will make it official at a summit on Kim's doorstep.

Why is this happening? Why is China helping after the tariffs?  I think we have worldwide military domination and cutting edge weaponry, and we're using it to achieve something new, instead of maintaining  constructs that only helped a very select group.  This isn't Trump.  This is once dormant Military (intel) + Trump.  If you have a hard time giving Trump credit, consider our military brass who puke at the thought of Gen Michael Flynn being bullied by a bunch of slime-ball neolibs.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

 

[Mojo Hand 4580]

7 minutes ago, Caracara said:

Kim met with Pompeo. Kim walked to Moon,. Kim changed his clocks to Moon's time.  Kim says their nuke days are winding down. Kim releasing hostages. Moon says USA should stay. Moon says Trump is responsible for strides to peace. 

Kim is capitulating.  he's not calling Trump's bluff. He's being allowed to save face and stay alive, before he and his step aside.   Trump's supposed concession is that he'll be presiding over all this and will make it official at a summit on Kim's doorstep.

Why is this happening? Why is China helping after the tariffs?  I think we have worldwide military domination and cutting edge weaponry, and we're using it to achieve something new, instead of maintaining  constructs that only helped a very select group.  This isn't Trump.  This is once dormant Military (intel) + Trump.  If you have a hard time giving Trump credit, consider our military brass who puke at the thought of Gen Michael Flynn being bullied by a bunch of slime-ball neolibs.

So answer this:

52 minutes ago, Mojo Hand said:

Just give me one remotely plausible explanation for how Kim could be giving up his nukes out of fear Trump will make good on his threats that would also be consistent with Kim firing off rockets in response to those threats.

 

[wildcat09 29377]

2 hours ago, Amobie said:

If you aren't willing to talk to Kim, then there is no possible way this ends without bloodshed.  We need to try to avoid bloodshed.  Diplomacy is about getting a result that ends with both sides winning and it looks like South and North Korea are on that path.  Let's hope that demands made by external forces (China and the USA) don't fuck that up.  The best solution is for the country to become one once again like they did with Germany.  Both sides want it.

You might want to check with South Korea on that one.

[Caracara 41]

6 minutes ago, Mojo Hand said:

So answer this:

 

Demonstrations of might that have gone unreported.  And the old group of DPKR minders from our alphabet intel services being replaced by military intel DPKR minders.  You will notice that Brennan, Clapper et al, hate Trump with white-hot passion.  But he's commander in chief of a military who loves him.

Edited May 3, 2018 by Caracara

[Mojo Hand 4580]

1 minute ago, Caracara said:

Demonstrations of might that have gone unreported.  And the old group of DPKR minders from our alphabet intel services being replaced by military intel DPKR minders.

What is an example of a demonstration of might that could have occurred without anyone knowing? 

[Caracara 41]

5 minutes ago, Mojo Hand said:

What is an example of a demonstration of might that could have occurred without anyone knowing? 

Could you imagine any examples?   because if your imagination isn't capable of going there, it'd be a waste of time for me to try and talk to you about the possibilities.

[SquishMitten 10425]

1 hour ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Neither Trump nor Kim was ever going to launch a pre-emptive nuclear strike. Or any other kind of offensive military action. China made that perfectly clear when they said they'd defend N. Korea if America attacked first and if N. Korea attacked first then they were on their own.

Again. That's a very logical answer. All I'm saying is that logic and rational behavior aren't a given anymore, yet we're still making assumptions and conclusions as if they were.

[seven 1367]

Dsa makes tons of sense for amobie, good call

[Pig Bellmont 8732]

lol @ Kim capitulating and the idea he will step aside. That goes against the entire history of this regime. Remember Kim initiated this with the invitation to the White House. If you think he’s just giving up power bc he’s scared of US Military might, you are just as naive as Trump 

[Mojo Hand 4580]

1 minute ago, Caracara said:

Could you imagine any examples?   because if your imagination isn't capable of going there, it'd be a waste of time for me to try and talk to you about the possibilities.

No, I can't imagine an example that could go unreported and only have been implemented, coincidentally, after NK completed a full battery of successful missile tests.  Either way, it does not follow that my shamefully poor imagination would prevent me from understanding the  ideas that your brilliant imagination is able to develop.   Let's hear just one example.  Even if it goes over my dumb head, I'm sure there are plenty of other posters approaching your level.

[David Dennison 18946]

33 minutes ago, Caracara said:

Kim met with Pompeo. Kim walked to Moon,. Kim changed his clocks to Moon's time.  Kim says their nuke days are winding down. Kim releasing hostages. Moon says USA should stay. Moon says Trump is responsible for strides to peace. 

Kim is capitulating.  he's not calling Trump's bluff. He's being allowed to save face and stay alive, before he and his step aside.   Trump's supposed concession is that he'll be presiding over all this and will make it official at a summit on Kim's doorstep.

Why is this happening? Why is China helping after the tariffs?  I think we have worldwide military domination and cutting edge weaponry, and we're using it to achieve something new, instead of maintaining  constructs that only helped a very select group.  This isn't Trump.  This is once dormant Military (intel) + Trump.  If you have a hard time giving Trump credit, consider our military brass who puke at the thought of Gen Michael Flynn being bullied by a bunch of slime-ball neolibs.

Wake me when there are no nuclear weapons in North Korea.

[Caracara 41]

Just now, Mojo Hand said:

No, I can't imagine an example that could go unreported and only have been implemented, coincidentally, after NK completed a full battery of successful missile tests.  Either way, it does not follow that my shamefully poor imagination would prevent me from understanding the  ideas that your brilliant imagination is able to develop.   Let's hear just one example.  Even if it goes over my dumb head, I'm sure there are plenty of other posters approaching your level.

Something like an EMP that takes out a chunk of their lo-fi grid.  People in Kim's circle dying.  Their testing facility being razed.  I brought your "imagination" into it to hopefully preempt, That could never happen! lol.   But you're too smart.   I guess we're stuck in a time will tell situation.

NK got bolder after Trump was elected, then it stopped.  It takes a little time to implement changes, but I think we have. 

[WhatTheBuck 28797]

9 minutes ago, SquishMitten said:

Again. That's a very logical answer. All I'm saying is that logic and rational behavior aren't a given anymore, yet we're still making assumptions and conclusions as if they were.

Dictators don't commit suicide. If Kim had launched an attack, that would have amounted to suicide. That was never going to happen. 

Trump is full of shit. Or haven't you figured that out yet? He promised "fire and fury" if Kim kept testing. Kim kept testing. Trump was never going to attack first because hundreds of thousands of S. Koreans would have died and we'd have to face the possibility of a nuclear counter strike on the U.S.  It would've been a foreign policy disaster that made the Iraq War look tiny by comparison. Kim called Trump's bluff and proved it was an empty threat. 

It was never going to happen. You can go back to the "What's your North Korea strategy?" on the old board. I've been saying it all along. I didn't just get lucky. There was no other possible outcome. We're going to learn to live with a nuclear N. Korea just like we live with a nuclear Pakistan. And if Trump has his way then we'll be living with a nuclear Iran soon enough. 

[David Dennison 18946]

2 minutes ago, Caracara said:

Something like an EMP that takes out a chunk of their lo-fi grid.  People in Kim's circle dying.  Their testing facility being razed.  I brought your "imagination" into it to hopefully preempt, That could never happen! lol.   But you're too smart.   I guess we're stuck in a time will tell situation.

NK got bolder after Trump was elected, then it stopped.  It takes a little time to implement changes, but I think we have. 

It stopped because its tests were successful and they know what their capabilities are now. We didn't do anything about it.

[Mojo Hand 4580]

Just now, Caracara said:

Something like an EMP that takes out a chunk of their lo-fi grid.  People in Kim's circle dying.  Their testing facility being razed.  I brought your "imagination" into it to hopefully preempt, That could never happen! lol.   But you're too smart.   I guess we're stuck in a time will tell situation.

NK got bolder after Trump was elected, then it stopped.  It takes a little time to implement changes, but I think we have. 

So one possibility is that, having successfully tested and proven a capability to strike the mainland US, Kim no longer needs the testing and is trading it for eventual acceptance in the world as a nuclear state. 

The other possibility is that a previously unknown capability to strike deep inside NK was actually unleashed by Trump without anyone knowing, and it's just coincidence that it wasn't used until after they ran all the tests they needed to run. 

I suppose your theory is possible, but it doesn't strike me as plausible, and certainly not more likely than the first scenario. 

[Caracara 41]

I could be way off.

But I saw Bolton hinting at regime change.  The symbolism I'm seeing from Kim spells weakness.   It seems like y'all's arguments are predicated on trump being an idiot, and past administrations' apparent impotency to slow down Kim and his daddy.   I know deep in your bones you believe potus to be an idiot and a conman, and that you're much smarter with a much better handle on the situation.   I think Trump has unleashed a frustrated military, and this NK situation isn't what you think it is.

[David Dennison 18946]

2 minutes ago, Caracara said:

I could be way off.

But I saw Bolton hinting at regime change.  The symbolism I'm seeing from Kim spells weakness.   It seems like y'all's arguments are predicated on trump being an idiot, and past administrations' apparent impotency to slow down Kim and his daddy.   I know deep in your bones you believe potus to be an idiot and a conman, and that you're much smarter with a much better handle on the situation.   I think Trump has unleashed a frustrated military, and this NK situation isn't what you think it is.

Our current position is one of historic weakness. I see our enemies taking advantage of that weakness. 

Edited May 3, 2018 by David Dennison

[Caracara 41]

9 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Our current position is one of historic weakness. I see our enemies taking advantage of that weakness. 

I guess we'll see.  Doesn't look like we're weak to me.

Mike Pompeo demands 'permanent' destruction of North Korean nuclear program ahead of Trump-Kim summit.

"The American people are counting on us to get this right," he said. "We are committed to the permanent, verifiable, irreversible, dismantling of North Korea's weapons of mass destruction program and to do so without delay."

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/white-house/mike-pompeo-demands-permanent-destruction-of-north-korean-nuclear-program-ahead-of-trump-kim-summit

Edited May 3, 2018 by Caracara

[David Dennison 18946]

Just now, Caracara said:

I guess we'll see.  Doesn't look like we're weak to me.

Mike Pompeo demands 'permanent' destruction of North Korean nuclear program ahead of Trump-Kim summit.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/white-house/mike-pompeo-demands-permanent-destruction-of-north-korean-nuclear-program-ahead-of-trump-kim-summit

It looks to me like the North Koreans know this is the perfect time to take advantage of a weak leader. 

[Mojo Hand 4580]

13 minutes ago, Caracara said:

I guess we'll see.  Doesn't look like we're weak to me.

Mike Pompeo demands 'permanent' destruction of North Korean nuclear program ahead of Trump-Kim summit.

"The American people are counting on us to get this right," he said. "We are committed to the permanent, verifiable, irreversible, dismantling of North Korea's weapons of mass destruction program and to do so without delay."

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/white-house/mike-pompeo-demands-permanent-destruction-of-north-korean-nuclear-program-ahead-of-trump-kim-summit

As long as Trump follows through insisting on this, I'll have no complaints.   I don't expect success, but I wouldn't have from Hillary or anyone else either.  But let's not forget that this is the standard for success.  If we make a "deal" without this, it won't be a success.