The US and Korea

[Caracara 41]

On 5/3/2018 at 1:55 PM, David Dennison said:

It looks to me like the North Koreans know this is the perfect time to take advantage of a weak leader. 

That's what I mean.  You start with, Trump is an idiot making all the decisions working on his own narcissism and dumb opinions, and everything in your mind precedes from there.  Even if dear leader and co was deposed and Nk nukes were dismantled, your theory would be that it's a chinese trick played on dotard.  Nothing can get you out of that box.

Edited May 10, 2018 by Caracara

[Mojo Hand 4580]

No, we're just using reason to make predictions based on everything we know. That's all you can do in a political discussion.  If we're wrong, I'll be thrilled, because this issue really matters for our country. 

[David Dennison 18860]

1 minute ago, Caracara said:

That's what I mean.  You start with, Trump is an idiot making all the decisions working on his own narcissism and dumb opinions, and everything in your mind precedes from there.  Even if dear leader and co was disposed and Nk nukes were dismantled, your theory would be that it's a chinese trick played on dotard.  Nothing can get you out of that box.

Because Donald Trump hasn't done one thing to make me think I'm wrong about him. In fact, everything he's done as president leads me to believe I'm right.

[Caracara 41]

Just now, Mojo Hand said:

No, we're just using reason to make predictions based on everything we know. That's all you can do in a political discussion.  If we're wrong, I'll be thrilled, because this issue really matters for our country. 

 Cool w that. If I'm wrong I'll be bummed, but sometimes little miracles happen.

[Pig Bellmont 8718]

Don’t take our word for it, take it from his Secretary of State who called him a fucking moron. Or his Chief if Staff who called him an idiot. Or the staff who were told to shorten intelligence briefs and add pictures to keep the President’s attention. 

Where do you think he gained any knowledge with respect to the Korean Peninsula or its history? We don’t have any ambassador to South Korea and all top diplomats from State Department are gone. So forgive me if I don’t believe Trump is the one with the whole situation on lock down. 

Just stick with the opening line of one of your last posts: “I could be wrong”

[Caracara 41]

3 minutes ago, Pig Bellmont said:

Don’t take our word for it, take it from his Secretary of State who called him a fucking moron. Or his Chief if Staff who called him an idiot. Or the staff who were told to shorten intelligence briefs and add pictures to keep the President’s attention. 

Where do you think he gained any knowledge with respect to the Korean Peninsula or its history? We don’t have any ambassador to South Korea and all top diplomats from State Department are gone. So forgive me if I don’t believe Trump is the one with the whole situation on lock down. 

Just stick with the opening line of one of your last posts: “I could be wrong”

“[Trump] is a man who fears no one and nothing,” continued Priebus, “and there is absolutely nothing he’s intimidated by. . . . And that’s very rare in politics. Most people in politics are people who have sort of an approval addiction. Now, granted, President Trump does too, but he’s willing to weather one storm after the next to get to an end result that most people are not willing to weather. . . . He doesn’t mind the craziness, the drama, or the difficulty, as long as an end goal is in sight. He will endure it.”

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2018/02/reince-priebus-opens-up-about-his-six-months-of-magical-thinking

[Anastasis 23469]

53 minutes ago, Mojo Hand said:

So one possibility is that, having successfully tested and proven a capability to strike the mainland US, Kim no longer needs the testing and is trading it for eventual acceptance in the world as a nuclear state. 

 

4 of the last 5 rocket tests involved failures in different phases, boost, re-entry or just blowing up at launch. Its a bit of a stretch to suggest that the NORKs have successfully demonstrated a reliable ICBM capability. 

[David Dennison 18860]

Just now, Caracara said:

“[Trump] is a man who fears no one and nothing,” continued Priebus, “and there is absolutely nothing he’s intimidated by. . . . And that’s very rare in politics. Most people in politics are people who have sort of an approval addiction. Now, granted, President Trump does too, but he’s willing to weather one storm after the next to get to an end result that most people are not willing to weather. . . . He doesn’t mind the craziness, the drama, or the difficulty, as long as an end goal is in sight. He will endure it.”

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2018/02/reince-priebus-opens-up-about-his-six-months-of-magical-thinking

This quote tells you everything you need to know about Donald Trump.

[Caracara 41]

It tells you why he's been embraced by the Marines.

[David Dennison 18860]

Just now, Caracara said:

It tells you why he's been embraced by the Marines.

Sure.

[Caracara 41]

your "because dotard" argument is on the clock.

[Pig Bellmont 8718]

7 minutes ago, Caracara said:

It tells you why he's been embraced by the Marines.

Tell me more about how Marines respect a guy for being fearless where he faked a medical condition to avoid serving. Also, and related: explain Trump’s Syrian military engagement strategy in 5 sentences or less. 

[Mojo Hand 4580]

1 minute ago, Anastasis said:

4 of the last 5 rocket tests involved failures in different phases, boost, re-entry or just blowing up at launch. Its a bit of a stretch to suggest that the NORKs have successfully demonstrated a reliable ICBM capability. 

They proved that they can realistically hit us.   Numerous experts concluded that they can do it now.  I can buy that the threat of US action was concerning enough to make it not worth fine tuning the tests, but the flip side of that is that they got far enough to no longer need to risk it.   The bottom line is that they ignored threat after threat with repeated testing that had significant results.  It's reasonable to conclude that they stopped not because of the threats they ignored, but because they achieved what they need to and it's more worthwhile for them to trade additional tests for something more valuable. 

[Caracara 41]

4 minutes ago, Pig Bellmont said:

Tell me more about how Marines respect a guy for being fearless where he faked a medical condition to avoid serving. Also, and related: explain Trump’s Syrian military engagement strategy in 5 sentences or less. 

can't do your 5 sentences thing.  I know he doesn't want to arm al qeda and isis anymore.   I googled "Trump faked medical condition" and nothing popped up. 

[Pig Bellmont 8718]

Try “draft deferments” or “bone spurs” you troll

[Caracara 41]

20 minutes ago, Pig Bellmont said:

Try “draft deferments” or “bone spurs” you troll

 

I'm not trolling. We have different views on NK.  If there are still old NK shaggy posts up, you'll see that long before Trump was running I opined that NK wasn't what it appeared to be, or that all the reporting re NK was genuine.  So to me, we are dealing with a country that has been purposely kept on life support.  And it doesn't surprise me that change can be implemented fairly rapidly.  Their missiles can supposedly hit Beijing also.  Just depends on who is pulling the trigger.

[EastTexan 662]

On May 2, 2018 at 4:12 PM, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Can we please wait until the hostages are home healthy and safe before we start dishing out credit?!?

Seriously, these fuckers are not to be trusted.

 

You are correct. Wouldn't trust rocket man for all the tea in China. Thankfully they are closer to freedom than one would have thought possible.

[Caracara 41]

13 minutes ago, EastTexan said:

 

You are correct. Wouldn't trust rocket man for all the tea in China. Thankfully they are closer to freedom than one would have thought possible.

Uncool move by Trump to keep hostages there in a 3* hotel until he gets his photo-op w them at the summit, but he's all about the showmanship.

[EastTexan 662]

7 hours ago, Pig Bellmont said:

Who trusts Trump to adequately outline terms for proper international inspection and monitoring of denuclearization? Does anyone believe he’s mastered the details here? 

Lol at the idea a deal is already in place. This is a guy who tells classified info to hostile foreign powers and trips over himself to give himself credit for the smallest achievements. There’s no way he’s wrapped up “a deal” and is keeping quiet about it 

 

That "proper international inspection and monitoring of denuclearization" thing. There's a model of that out there somewhere on how not to do it. Need to not follow that deal. 

[EastTexan 662]

5 hours ago, David Dennison said:

Wake me when there are no nuclear weapons in North Korea.

 

Stay awake but quit posting. How's that?

[David Dennison 18860]

3 minutes ago, EastTexan said:

Stay awake but quit posting. How's that?

To your liking.

Nah.

[EastTexan 662]

1 minute ago, David Dennison said:

To your liking.

Nah.

Well go to F-ing asleep. Sevenz will wake you up with a cup of joe.

[EastTexan 662]

4 hours ago, Mojo Hand said:

As long as Trump follows through insisting on this, I'll have no complaints.   I don't expect success, but I wouldn't have from Hillary or anyone else either.  But let's not forget that this is the standard for success.  If we make a "deal" without this, it won't be a success.

 

Correct.

[EastTexan 662]

1 hour ago, Caracara said:

Uncool move by Trump to keep hostages there in a 3* hotel until he gets his photo-op w them at the summit, but he's all about the showmanship.

 

Did not know this. Not cool at all.

[Caracara 41]

4 hours ago, David Dennison said:

Sure.

DavidD, look at Hugo's post #181 on this thread. showing trend in O's admin.  During the watch of successive administrations we've lost manufacturing, economic stature, border control...and there has been a constant push for us to submit to some sort of global regulation or governance from counsels of appointees.  The trend would be that our economy shifts to China, and that the EU's influence on us would be heavy, and our military weakens while China grows stronger (post #181).    our US military brass doesn't want to take marching orders from guys named Junger and Francois... Merkels.   It was now or never.

Trump is the military's figurehead, just like Obama was somebody's figurehead, and W was.

[David Dennison 18860]

6 minutes ago, Caracara said:

DavidD, look at Hugo's post #181 on this thread. showing trend in O's admin.  During the watch of successive administrations we've lost manufacturing, economic stature, border control...and there has been a constant push for us to submit to some sort of global regulation or governance from counsels of appointees.  The trend would be that our economy shifts to China, and that the EU's influence on us would be heavy, and our military weakens while China grows stronger (post #181).    our US military brass doesn't want to take marching orders from guys named Junger and Francois... Merkels.   It was now or never.

Trump is the military's figurehead, just like Obama was somebody's figurehead, and W was.

Donald Trump isn't going to change any of those trends. 

[Caracara 41]

2 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Donald Trump isn't going to change any of those trends. 

I guess you missed my point, and also, you don't think Trump is going to budget a record amount for the military.

[David Dennison 18860]

3 minutes ago, Caracara said:

I guess you missed my point, and also, you don't think Trump is going to budget a record amount for the military.

I don't think it's going to change anything in terms of geopolitics or the global economy. The defense budget is a domestic jobs program more than anything, but the increases aren't going to make much of a difference.

Edited May 4, 2018 by David Dennison

[Caracara 41]

We all miss Obama's elegance. 

[David Dennison 18860]

Just now, Caracara said:

We all miss Obama's elegance. 

This country misses him a lot. He was a very good president. Best in my lifetime.

[Caracara 41]

As an Obama voter myself, I totally get you.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

Saw this China wishlist item coming.

And yes, I think we should keep troops there.

Edited May 4, 2018 by Hugo Stiglitz

[Caracara 41]

My opinion is that we'll keep troops there, but that we are also encouraging nearby countries to pay us more or defend themselves more.  Statements/Articles like this send different signals to different parties.  To NK it looks good.  To Japan it says something else.  It isn't the troops as much as the hardware, when you're talking about China. They have the troops.

[WhatTheBuck 28781]

Have those American prisoners been freed yet? I was told that would be happening soon. Of course that was several cycles of crazy ago so much of America has probably already forgotten. 

And it looks like today Trump may send a clear message to Un that you can't trust any deal you make with the Americans.

[zork 629]

More Chinese incresed activity wrt NK's nuclear ambitions.  What is the impetus as compared to a few years ago?  Did anything change?  Why get involved now(or recently)?

 

Quote

Chinese President Xi Jinping met with North Korean leader Kim Jong Un in the port city of Dalian over the past two days, the second meeting between top officials of the allies in less than two months.

The summit came after Kim’s surprise two-day visit to Beijing in late March, his first known trip abroad since taking power in 2011. The most recent talks follow Kim’s meeting with President Moon Jae-in of South Korea on April 27 and an expected one with U.S. President Donald Trump, possibly next month.

Trump said on Twitter he would speak to Xi by phone this morning to discuss trade and North Korea.

...

I added the bold as a possible reason for the new activity?  Dealmaking?  4D chess?(D for Dotard)

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-05-08/china-s-xi-meets-north-korea-s-kim-for-second-time-in-two-months

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

Because this NK deal is all under the orchestration of China.

They are the ones getting the most out it and they’re delighted to give Trump as much credit as he wants.

[David Dennison 18860]

5 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Because this NK deal is all under the orchestration of China.

They are the ones getting the most out it and they’re delighted to give Trump as much credit as he wants.

They read the Art of the Deal and know who they are dealing with.

[zork 629]

Why now?  There have been two way, three way, five way, etc talks for years and years?

[David Dennison 18860]

1 minute ago, zork said:

Why now?  There have been two way, three way, five way, etc talks for years and years?

And this will probably end up just like all of the previous talks. The North Koreans will promise a bunch of stuff and then do the opposite. Now they're dealing with a country in the United States that also breaks its promises.

SAD!

[zork 629]

Just now, David Dennison said:

And this will probably end up just like all of the previous talks. The North Koreans will promise a bunch of stuff and then do the opposite. Now they're dealing with a country in the United States that also breaks its promises.

SAD!

So they are lying to China as well?  Or are you insinuating that China is driving this thing but in the opposite way that I am implying that China is?(that China is working with Dotard on NK to appease on trade, back channel; speculation)

[David Dennison 18860]

China is in this for China. They are doing everything in their power to get the most out of Donald Trump because they know he's in way over his head and doesn't know what he's doing.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

China fucking owns North Korea. Always have.

China wants more political influence over South Korea and hegemonic dominance in the region in general.

To accomplish this, they need to get the U.S. influence out of the region both diplomatically and militarily.  Trump is more than willing to oblige them if he can get some good press back in the states by doing whatever he’s currently doing with North Korea which China is dictating.

It’s a wag-the-Jong short term foreign policy for Trump and a long term expansion policy for China.

#winning

[David Dennison 18860]

1 minute ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

China fucking owns North Korea. Always have.

China wants more political influence over South Korea and hegemonic dominance in the region in general.

To accomplish this, they need to get the U.S. influence out of the region both diplomatically and militarily.  Trump is more than willing to oblige them if he can get some good press back in the states by doing whatever he’s currently doing with North Korea which China is dictating.

It’s a wag-the-Jong short term foreign policy for Trump and a long term expansion policy for China.

#winning

Cucking the United States costs one Nobel Peace Prize for a childlike president.

Pretty good deal if you're the Chinese.

[PittsburghTiger 6186]

15 hours ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Have those American prisoners been freed yet? I was told that would be happening soon. Of course that was several cycles of crazy ago so much of America has probably already forgotten. 

And it looks like today Trump may send a clear message to Un that you can't trust any deal you make with the Americans.

SEOUL, May 9 (Yonhap) -- North Korea is expected to release three U.S. citizens held in the communist state on Wednesday, an official from Seoul's presidential office Cheong Wa Dae said, in an apparent goodwill gesture ahead of a historic meeting between its leader Kim Jong-un and U.S. President Donald Trump.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

Trump: “Yo Xi, shit’s about to hit the fan here in the states, I need you to get lil’ Kim to release those prisoners tomorrow”

Xi: “You going remove troops from peninsula?”

Trump: “yeah sure, just give me six months so it doesn’t look so bad.”

Xi: “You make great deals.”

Trump: “I know.”

[kopp0e 1135]

On 5/3/2018 at 6:01 PM, Caracara said:

Uncool move by Trump to keep hostages there in a 3* hotel until he gets his photo-op w them at the summit, but he's all about the showmanship.

Expect the photo to be sure to be shown numerous times during the 2020 election cycle...

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

On 5/3/2018 at 5:45 PM, EastTexan said:

 

You are correct. Wouldn't trust rocket man for all the tea in China. Thankfully they are closer to freedom than one would have thought possible.

 

On 5/3/2018 at 7:46 PM, Caracara said:

We all miss Obama's elegance. 

 

5 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

 

It’s a wag-the-Jong short term foreign policy for Trump and a long term expansion policy for China.

#winning

So very, very, very much racism in this thread.

[blackmarketbaby 118]

On 5/3/2018 at 12:38 PM, Mojo Hand said:

They proved that they can realistically hit us.   Numerous experts concluded that they can do it now.  I can buy that the threat of US action was concerning enough to make it not worth fine tuning the tests, but the flip side of that is that they got far enough to no longer need to risk it.   The bottom line is that they ignored threat after threat with repeated testing that had significant results.  It's reasonable to conclude that they stopped not because of the threats they ignored, but because they achieved what they need to and it's more worthwhile for them to trade additional tests for something more valuable. 

Let's act like here is any semblance of a plan. Like the good ole' days

[CowboyFred 1151]

This is some good news with all the shit going with our foreign politics.

[Chrispy 132]

11 minutes ago, CowboyFred said:

This is some good news with all the shit going with our foreign politics.

People will spin this as a bad thing, they can’t help themselves.