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The US and Korea

RomaVicta

By RomaVicta
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HenryJames
HenryJames

Un-N-Out?

Dbeasy
Dbeasy

Reading the butthurt in here reminds me yet again that 95% of our population, including the posters on here, are simply incapable of perceiving anything political in any way other than reinforcing the

Goredho
Goredho

My inconsequential thoughts:   1. Dbeasy is right.  This is a first step in a change in the handling of NK.  The status quo was surely not the answer, so something different needed to be tried.  

Brisketexan

Brisketexan 105142

Posted
Posted
16 minutes ago, longhornmatt said:

This is possibly the worst thing he has said.  In addition to the usual insulting everyone’s intelligence with a bizarre and stupid con man claim, he is threatening nuclear war and alienating our allies in such a way that they truly might decide we’re not even allies anymore. “Hey, South Korea, we may escalate this into a war that will annihilate Seoul.  Tough break.  But just so you know, we expect you to pick up the tab on that.”

Wait....did he really, actually, for real fucking say that?

Fucking seriously?

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Mojo Hand

Mojo Hand 4580

Posted
Posted
25 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

So, are people really surprised by this?  This guy bases his whole philosophy on bring a "dealmaker".  Seems like he's using basic negotiation tactics.  He doesn't like the way it's going, so walk away and apply further pressure.  What am I missing?

Where does premature celebration and claiming worthiness for a Nobel Peace Prize fall among basic negotiation tactics? 

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 105142

Posted
Posted
Just now, Pods said:

 

tenor.gif?itemid=5465317

Ok.  Every one of you dated that one super-psycho gal.  The one who would freak out over nothing, escalate to throwing shit at you, hollering how she hated you and get out of her apartment right now, and then when you happily obliged, walking to the door, she'd run to you, fall to the ground hugging your legs crying saying "I love you, please don't go!!!!!  I LOVE YOU!!!"  Right?

Well, right now, I wish we had her as our president, because more mentally stable.

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RomaVicta

RomaVicta 29908

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1 hour ago, Jhawk said:

Were you complaining about obama's comments about getting together with our enemies and his lack of knowledge on the history of negotiations there or is that complaint specific to trump? 

I thought we were discussing Korea policy under Trump and you asked what would be a good policy. Don't raise those issues, please, unless you're actually interested in discussing them.

You want to play partisan tag, and I'm not really interested in that. In fact, I'll concede that Dems including Obama have made errors. That must be stunning to you. I bet you dropped your pom-poms.

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JimmyJames

JimmyJames 12271

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, David Dennison said:

You're missing the fact that Donald Trump is one of the worst deal makers on earth.

The man bankrupted a casino. A fucking casino.

They should change the phrase from “the House always wins” to “the House always wins, unless trump runs it, then the House is gonna lose its ass like a thousand rain mans all showed up at once.”

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DigDug

DigDug 1669

Posted
Posted
28 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

seriously, he's all over the fucking road. news is now not different day to day, but hour to fucking hour

I'm starting to get this sense that he really doesn't know what he's doing, and he's just making it up as he goes along.  Odd

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Mojo Hand

Mojo Hand 4580

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

The man bankrupted a casino. A fucking casino.

They should change the phrase from “the House always wins” to “the House always wins, unless trump runs it, then the House is gonna lose its ass like a thousand rain mans all showed up at once.”

More than once.  One time his dad saved the casino by walking in, buying $3.5 million in chips, and walking out without gambling.   If Trump's dad weren't rich, he'd be living in an alley by now. 

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MNLonghornFUKM

MNLonghornFUKM 8817

Posted
Posted
31 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Ok.  Every one of you dated that one super-psycho gal.  The one who would freak out over nothing, escalate to throwing shit at you, hollering how she hated you and get out of her apartment right now, and then when you happily obliged, walking to the door, she'd run to you, fall to the ground hugging your legs crying saying "I love you, please don't go!!!!!  I LOVE YOU!!!"  Right?

Well, right now, I wish we had her as our president, because more mentally stable.

What do you have against goats

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MaybeACoordinator

MaybeACoordinator 8349

Posted
Posted

I've said it before on this board and the last one, too, but nobody really wants Lil' Kim's regime to collapse. China and Russia don't want a western power on their flanks. Japan doesn't want a regional rival. SK doesn't want the short-term costs of absorbing 30 million or so brainwashed lemmings with a 1940s economy. Lil Kim doesn't want to be ass-raped in the streets like Khadafy as he might be if his regime collapses, obviously.

The only people who care are the precious few in NK who know how badly their lives suck.

So: remind me why we give a fuck. Remind me why we are saber-rattling our way towards a possible nuclear war over this high-top fade asshole and his little podunk empire, one that almost nobody wants to see toppled. I mean, nobody is even making the humanitarian arguments these days, about the suffering of the NK people, or how Democracy should spread. It's just: Lil Kim, Bad, Must Topple. 

I've literally got skin in this game. I've got a kid a few miles from the DMZ and it worries me sick. 

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MaybeACoordinator

MaybeACoordinator 8349

Posted
Posted

Seriously, I bet we could pay a billion or two to Lil' Kim and ship him off to Qatar or Dubai with a rockin' stereo and a monthly budget for hos and build him a basketball gym so he could fly in weird old hoops stars and bingo: reunification, if that's what anybody wanted. But we don't. 

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MaybeACoordinator

MaybeACoordinator 8349

Posted
Posted (edited)

For Lil Kim, it must be a pretty awesome life. I'd love to be able to command the whole nation to throw parades in my honor whenever I wanted to, and I guess he would miss that in his exile, but a billion or two can buy consolation in many forms. 

Edited by MaybeACoordinator
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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

Posted
Posted
Just now, MaybeACoordinator said:

And I get that, but he ain't about to nuke anybody if we just leave him with his parades and sorry little Commie paradise. It's like kicking over a fire ant band and then just standing there, picking on his punk ass. 

We fuck with North Korea for political reasons.  

They’re a good boogie man.

They aren’t really the threat they’re made out to be but South Korea and our influence there is well worth defending and protecting.

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MaybeACoordinator

MaybeACoordinator 8349

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

We fuck with North Korea for political reasons.  

They’re a good boogie man.

They aren’t really the threat they’re made out to be but South Korea and our influence there is well worth defending and protecting.

I agree, but they were hopeless as an army when we fought them back in the day. We rolled them like UT vs Baylor in the 2000s. That all changed when the revamped Chinese came in, under their new coach Mao Tze Stoops. Today's Norks are not an invading army of any capacity whatsoever. And our interest there right now, near as I can tell, is maintaining the status quo.

It's also worth noting that a growing number of SK's want us out of there. According to information I have received, part of our army's mission there is to quell an uprising of SKs in the unlikely event that they suddenly rebel against our presence there and demand immediate reunification with NK. They are a proud nation, and the young are increasingly resentful of foreign troops on their ground. 

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Mojo Hand

Mojo Hand 4580

Posted
Posted
19 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

And I get that, but he ain't about to nuke anybody if we just leave him with his parades and sorry little Commie paradise. It's like kicking over a fire ant band and then just standing there, picking on his punk ass. 

What about proliferation?   I.e., Kim selling nukes to bad actors who are more likely to fuck with us. 

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Mojo Hand

Mojo Hand 4580

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, Fozzz said:

The members of the WSJ's editorial board are as batshit as Trump.  Hopefully Bolton isn't running the show now.

https://twitter.com/marykissel/status/999654849619939333

I don't think canceling the meeting was a bad idea.  I think prematurely celebrating a Nobel and commemorative coins was a bad idea.  I think touting the Libya model and embarrassing ourselves in trade negotiations with China and praising Kim for being honorable was a bad idea.   And I think the way Trump cancelled the meeting was a bad idea.   But canceling the meeting is a rare example of a good idea that also happens to spare Trump even more embarrassed, and it's a good thing he canceled it, given how poorly he played his hand so far. 

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MaybeACoordinator

MaybeACoordinator 8349

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, Mojo Hand said:

What about proliferation?   I.e., Kim selling nukes to bad actors who are more likely to fuck with us. 

Eh, we could buy him off and send him to Dubai with his harem and Dennis Rodman and bring about reunification cheaply that way if we wanted to. But nobody wants it....And I doubt he would risk that and getting popped for it in the meantime. I think that's a boogeyman threat. 

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 105142

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, Mojo Hand said:

I don't think canceling the meeting was a bad idea.  I think prematurely celebrating a Nobel and commemorative coins was a bad idea.  I think touting the Libya model and embarrassing ourselves in trade negotiations with China and praising Kim for being honorable was a bad idea.   And I think the way Trump cancelled the meeting was a bad idea.   But canceling the meeting is a rare example of a good idea that also happens to spare Trump even more embarrassed, and it's a good thing he canceled it, given how poorly he played his hand so far. 

Oh, I'm DEFINITELY glad that the meeting was cancelled.  Because it was going to be a clusterfuck with us getting our asses handed to us.  But everything around it....clusterfuck.

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Bozo_Casanova

Bozo_Casanova 26462

Posted
Posted (edited)

From Axios:
 

Quote

Two views on where we’re headed, from Axios Expert Voices:

  • The case for pessimism, from Richard Haass, president of the Council on Foreign Relations: “There was no way the summit could have succeeded … Better that the summit was postponed than to have ended up in dramatic failure.”
  • The case for optimism, from Tony Blinken, former deputy secretary of state in the Obama administration: “Both leaders still likely want this meeting to happen.”

1527196484749.gif

Edited by Bozo_Casanova
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RomaVicta

RomaVicta 29908

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3 hours ago, GRHorn said:

He doesn't like the way it's going, so walk away and apply further pressure.  What am I missing?

The letter. The unintelligible gibberish after the letter. The incoherent foreign policy in general before the letter.

Strategery.

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JohnRedHorn

JohnRedHorn 29

Posted
Posted

Whoever it was that said Kim was playing Trump to make America the bad guy and squeeze America out of political influence in the Korean peninsula was spot on. You can see every trap DPRK lays and watch this admin walk into them. No way Moon or anyone in South Korea thinks the US can be trusted. 

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RomaVicta

RomaVicta 29908

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42 minutes ago, Fozzz said:

The members of the WSJ's editorial board are as batshit as Trump.  Hopefully Bolton isn't running the show now.

https://twitter.com/marykissel/status/999654849619939333

"Expending presidential prestige?"

What presidential prestige? It's like me expending my remaining years as an Olympic Gold Medal level competitor.

However, I agree that cancelling the meeting isn't bad per se. Analyzing Trump's decisions in a vacuum is something idiotic the media does because they don't know how to change modes from analyzing the acts of previous presidents who behaved like presidents. A six year old could say No! to meeting the NK Fearless Leader but it wouldn't be any more part of a greater coherent strategy than is being displayed by Trump.

Just look at the wild cast of characters that he has chosen as security and foreign policy advisers then fired and replaced with other wild characters. Lil' Kim has a far more sophisticated grasp of how to get something substantial from this process than Trump ever will.

"You're a very handsome man, Donald. And, Donald, here is a shiny coin to commemorate your amazing deal making abilities, Donald. President Trump, you should win the Nobel Prize. Don't you think I'm an honorable man whom you would like to meet, Donald?"

"I've just concluded an amazing, really amazing discussion with Kim Jung Un. Terrific fellow. Generous. He released the hostages and really seems to be a good judge of character. I think we can make a great deal. Oh, traditional allies, S. Korea and Japan, fuck you and get ready to pay for a war I might start that would destroy your countries."

 

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NotActuallyALonghorn

NotActuallyALonghorn 4976

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

For Lil Kim, it must be a pretty awesome life. I'd love to be able to command the whole nation to throw parades in my honor whenever I wanted to, and I guess he would miss that in his exile, but a billion or two can buy consolation in many forms. 

He has to be constantly suspicious of any potential coup, to the point that he's even executed family members. And he was educated in the west, so he knows that his country is massively screwed up and has no way of getting to be otherwise. And say he wants to improve it and try and rejoin the rest of the world? Well that just means that the generals and high level officials will lose their status and gravy train, further increasing the chance of a coup. They can't be too happy about his efforts so far, and I wouldn't be surprised if he isnt facing a ton of internal pressure not to make any sort of deal that would jeopardize their power.

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JohnRedHorn

JohnRedHorn 29

Posted
Posted

"Trump wanted to cancel before North Korea could"

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/inside-summit-collapse-trump-wanted-cancel-n-korean-leader-could-n877291

This is exactly what Kim and Xi wanted to happen and knew Trump would do because he's a giant tantrum throwing toddler who has to always be first to something. Now any negotiating leverage he had is gone as he can no longer force Kim to be the bad guy who canceled the summit. To the world and Moon it looks like the US doesn't want to seriously negotiate for Korean peace. 

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Jhawkmvp

Jhawkmvp 1489

Posted
Posted
7 hours ago, Ted Lange said:

Fart noises. 

 

Japan and South Korea are not paying for any military action we start. Trump is going to give South Korea and Japan the last reason they need to go nuclear.  If Japan and South Korea can't depend on the USA and it's nuclear deterrent as an ally, they will take care of business themselves. One or both countries will likely have nukes in the near future. 

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