The US and Korea

[yoladu 4187]

1 hour ago, Dbeasy said:

Reading the butthurt in here reminds me yet again that 95% of our population, including the posters on here, are simply incapable of perceiving anything political in any way other than reinforcing their existing beliefs. If you hate the left, everything that happens will be perceived thru that lens.

I hate Trump’s guts. But objectively you have to acknowledge that for such an incredibly difficult problem and situation, the agreement with NK is a positive first step. It may all fall apart later, but you have to start somewhere, and commitment to de-nuclearization is the right first step. The only thing we have given up is joint military exercises, which are just a money drain anyway. If things go sideways, we just start exercises again. Sanctions are still in place. Fears over legitimizing Un are way over-blown. The whole world knows he’s a clown. Complaints about no human rights changes are premature. We work with China and they have a plethora of human rights violations. There are a dozen other countries we deal with that also are brutal dictatorships, like Saudi Arabia. The main goal is denuclearization, not solving all their human rights violations. In fact, you can’t easily do that until you’ve solved the nuclear problem first.

You guys are smart. Suck it up and acknowledge that he’s done something that has some value because he has. Otherwise you look just like the science-denying lugheads on the right.

i am in general agreement with this. However, the gushing and praise for this murder by the President is unfortunate, embarrassing, and completely avoidable, but yeah, Trump.

[Fozzz 152]

 

Trump stating the un-PC truth regarding the military exercises.  They are extremely provocative.  

[Dbeasy 15526]

Their nuclear testing fell apart on accident, they used that as an opportunity to say they did it on purpose, and you are so fucking stupid you gobble up NK propaganda like it's truth. Holy shit.

And you take speculative news stories that may or may not be true and process it thru your far left lens to suit your pre-existing beliefs. Maybe the news stories are accurate. Probably are. However the only verified facts are that it blew up and no flights have occurred. Isn’t that why we wanted?

You people have got to learn to treat every piece of news information skeptically. The people affiliated with the two parties spend every waking moment skewing information to suit their objective of taking and holding political power.

If you actually started doing that, here is what you might actually realize, or re-affirm:

1. Trump is absolutely a narcissistic piece of shit. The evidence from his on tweets provides the direct evidence. I’m sure you’re on-board with this thought.
2. The Republican Party has passed some of the most irresponsible tax legislation in a long time, and maybe ever. You are still feeling good I bet.
3. However, the trade imbalance with other countries is absolutely unfair. China, for example, doles out business and sponsors activities in very specific ways to enrich Chinese companies and give only token levels of business for US companies. For twenty plus years we’ve been taking it up the rectum from them and others. Trump is right to be trying to change it in a new or different way. Is he doing it right? No. See #1. I’m sure you are still feeling good here because it still aligns with your hatred of Trump and Republicans, but you are getting nervous because it requires you to acknowledge that the other side pursuing better trade agreements is the right thing to do. Uh oh.

When you look at all of the serious issues this country must address (spending, immigration, trade, nukes, human rights, etc), neither party is effectively developing positions and strategies to solve them. You know why? Because that isn’t their objective. Their objective is to get and hold power. Now, personally I think across the whole spectrum of issues the Democratic Party is closer to reasonable positions than the Republican Party, but until the general public quits viewing every fact thru their political lens, we won’t hold them accountable for solving the problems.

You guys on this board are the worst. You spend all day long criticizing the other side and I rarely, if ever, see any of you take counter positions to your party line. Maybe you have and I missed them, but it’s rare. The day I start seeing some original thoughtful analysis on here instead of pre-conditioned confirmation bias is the day this country will finally start addressing these pressing problems. I’m confident that day will come.

Finally, I know everything I just wrote will be criticized and go in one ear and out of the other because, well, see above.

[David Dennison 19441]

2 minutes ago, Fozzz said:

 

Trump stating the un-PC truth regarding the military exercises.  They are extremely provocative.  

They're supposed to be. Their purpose is to project power while preparing the military for practical warfare.

[Chrispy 132]

5 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

Please explain...what should everyone be excited about after the meeting?  Aside from the awesome coins of course.

I never suggested excitement. I’m taking a cautiously optimistic viewpoint, but my comment was merely pointing out the emotional fragility of the media and feeling sympathy for them. 

[bad_teammate 13479]

Just now, Dbeasy said:

And you take speculative news stories that may or may not be true and process it thru your far left lens to suit your pre-existing beliefs.

Only the "far left" sees the collapse of the site as unintentional? OK bud

Quote

You people have got to learn to treat every piece of news information skeptically.

Says the guy taking NK propaganda at face value.

[Dbeasy 15526]

i am in general agreement with this. However, the gushing and praise for this murder by the President is unfortunate, embarrassing, and completely avoidable, but yeah, Trump.

Agree. That’s because Trump is a piece of shit. Always was and always will be. That is who he is.

[Ragnarok 103]

N. Korea can't be trusted.  We still can't trust them.  And Kim is a sociopath.  I doubt if this changes anything.   But all we gave up was something useless and expensive.  It's not like we flew in truckloads of cash for empty promises.

Edited June 12, 2018 by Ragnarok

[bad_teammate 13479]

We can't be trusted, either, that's why this whole thing is a stupid farce.

[kevwun 16269]

War games in an area where an an actual war could happen are not useless.

Edited June 12, 2018 by kevwun

[Mojo Hand 4580]

1 minute ago, Dbeasy said:

Finally, I know everything I just wrote will be criticized and go in one ear and out of the other because, well, see above.
 

Nah, tldr.  I just skipped to the bottom.   Your previous takes are so lacking in context and critical thought that there's no point.   Continuing enjoying the ride watching this season of The Apprentice:  Washington Edition.

[Fozzz 152]

For being so silly and pointless Moon seems pretty happy about it.  But what would he know.  

[bad_teammate 13479]

 

 

[staboner 5067]

1 hour ago, Dbeasy said:

Reading the butthurt in here reminds me yet again that 95% of our population, including the posters on here, are simply incapable of perceiving anything political in any way other than reinforcing their existing beliefs. If you hate the left, everything that happens will be perceived thru that lens.

I hate Trump’s guts. But objectively you have to acknowledge that for such an incredibly difficult problem and situation, the agreement with NK is a positive first step. It may all fall apart later, but you have to start somewhere, and commitment to de-nuclearization is the right first step. The only thing we have given up is joint military exercises, which are just a money drain anyway. If things go sideways, we just start exercises again. Sanctions are still in place. Fears over legitimizing Un are way over-blown. The whole world knows he’s a clown. Complaints about no human rights changes are premature. We work with China and they have a plethora of human rights violations. There are a dozen other countries we deal with that also are brutal dictatorships, like Saudi Arabia. The main goal is denuclearization, not solving all their human rights violations. In fact, you can’t easily do that until you’ve solved the nuclear problem first.

You guys are smart. Suck it up and acknowledge that he’s done something that has some value because he has. Otherwise you look just like the science-denying lugheads on the right.

there are plenty of posters here also wishing the best. see mojo, myself, anastasis and a few others. probably the minority, but at least some of us

a few things here. 

the US stands for human rights and democracy. that is one of our founding and hopefully still fucking standing in 2020 or 2024 values. trump very clearly has nothing to do or say here on these matters and instead is slowly pinching allies (who do espouse these values) while high fiving leaders and countries that don't.

we need to stop all the military exercises and trim some presence there. i am all for that for a myriad of reasons

in this meeting i think trump could have really hammered home some kind of statement from Un on something related to democratic reform or human rights of any type. Hey let the peace corp in to help you grow tree bark for your starving people. no fucking clue what that may look like (but that is why the work if fucking hard). and then in exchange we stop some exercises and you tone the nuke chatter down. 

instead we see a Trump who likes Un, probably because they both blow each other's ego a bit and are comfortable not getting much of anything done.

I disagreed with everyone on this subject much earlier in this thread. i thought this was a huge opportunity for the US and the west. Its time to bring NK out of the dark and start talking about human rights. who cares if they can't follow through with it. this isn't the 90s. this now and the world, the twiiterverse and all the new shit we have has changed what a summit like that can look like and what it can accomplish. 

bravo to trump for trying, but i believe it wasn't for the right reasons and he did s shitty job negotiating and getting anything worthwhile accomplished. i never believed he would, so no sweat off my back. just happy it happened

happy no nuke tuesdays my Gs

[Pig Bellmont 8867]

But seriously you guys, anyone being critical is a partisan hack

[Dbeasy 15526]

Bad Teammate, I’m curious. You post on here all of the time. If you were to go back and find the last substantive post where you praise Trump and the Republicans for anything when would that be? This week? This month? This year? I’m just wondering.

[Mojo Hand 4580]

My guess would be Trump's endorsement of Warren's weed legalization bill a few days ago.   Most of us here on both sides think that's great.  Go Trump. 

Edited June 12, 2018 by Mojo Hand

[wildcat09 29558]

9 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

And you take speculative news stories that may or may not be true and process it thru your far left lens to suit your pre-existing beliefs. Maybe the news stories are accurate. Probably are. However the only verified facts are that it blew up and no flights have occurred. Isn’t that why we wanted?

You people have got to learn to treat every piece of news information skeptically. The people affiliated with the two parties spend every waking moment skewing information to suit their objective of taking and holding political power.

If you actually started doing that, here is what you might actually realize, or re-affirm:

1. Trump is absolutely a narcissistic piece of shit. The evidence from his on tweets provides the direct evidence. I’m sure you’re on-board with this thought.
2. The Republican Party has passed some of the most irresponsible tax legislation in a long time, and maybe ever. You are still feeling good I bet.
3. However, the trade imbalance with other countries is absolutely unfair. China, for example, doles out business and sponsors activities in very specific ways to enrich Chinese companies and give only token levels of business for US companies. For twenty plus years we’ve been taking it up the rectum from them and others. Trump is right to be trying to change it in a new or different way. Is he doing it right? No. See #1. I’m sure you are still feeling good here because it still aligns with your hatred of Trump and Republicans, but you are getting nervous because it requires you to acknowledge that the other side pursuing better trade agreements is the right thing to do. Uh oh.

When you look at all of the serious issues this country must address (spending, immigration, trade, nukes, human rights, etc), neither party is effectively developing positions and strategies to solve them. You know why? Because that isn’t their objective. Their objective is to get and hold power. Now, personally I think across the whole spectrum of issues the Democratic Party is closer to reasonable positions than the Republican Party, but until the general public quits viewing every fact thru their political lens, we won’t hold them accountable for solving the problems.

You guys on this board are the worst. You spend all day long criticizing the other side and I rarely, if ever, see any of you take counter positions to your party line. Maybe you have and I missed them, but it’s rare. The day I start seeing some original thoughtful analysis on here instead of pre-conditioned confirmation bias is the day this country will finally start addressing these pressing problems. I’m confident that day will come.

Finally, I know everything I just wrote will be criticized and go in one ear and out of the other because, well, see above.
 

This is particularly funny coming from someone who claims to hate Trump, yet on multiple issues has shown a remarkable credulousness in willing to believe that Trump can, wants to, and will achieve something good for the American people. If I recall correctly, weren't you quite optimistic about tax reform and the benefits it would bestow upon ordinary working Americans? How's that looking now?

[Dahobbs 18190]

Things I think:

(1): I'm not convinced economic sanctions have ever accomplished anything meaningful or good;

(2): I don't think isolating a country has ever accomplished anything meaningful and generally just ends up in fucking that country up more;

(3): Economic integration is a far more successful way towards peace and prosperity

(4): I actually like that Trump (who is terrible and does everything for terrible reasons) is trying something new with North Korea--I just wish one of our previous actual grown-up Presidents were in charge;

(5): Trump, predictably, accomplished nothing but touting his own greatness;

[bad_teammate 13479]

4 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

Bad Teammate, I’m curious. You post on here all of the time. If you were to go back and find the last substantive post where you praise Trump and the Republicans for anything when would that be? This week? This month? This year? I’m just wondering.

I don't keep track. How about you do some sleuthing?

Better yet, tell me something genuinely good that Donald or the Republicans have done recently and I'll give you my take.

[retread 2951]

jlawokay.gif

[Bateshorn 9989]

7 minutes ago, Fozzz said:

For being so silly and pointless Moon seems pretty happy about it.  But what would he know.  

I can field this, I have a Korean inlaw:  Korean Politics do not align to our politics, post Cold War, at all. Modern Korean politics basically break down into pro and anti unification camps, with a sprinkling of policy surrounding industrial conglomerates and political spoils that are incomprehensible to non Korean experts.   Moon is leader of the pro unification party.  This is great for his popularity because it keeps talks going without yet putting requirements on the North Koreans that might be broken and fracturing the peace process.

[Caracara 41]

Disappointed.  If I was South Korean I might be hopeful.  This is probably a first step to something good, but I had hoped for a lot more.  I expected to hear Kim say "we must make changes."  I expected evidence that his feet were to the fire and a gun was to his head.  I thought we had him over a barrel.   I think Kim's nuclear weapons are done for, but I was hoping we were ready to force other reforms.  The summit didn't move the process ahead by leaps and bounds. There were no great surprises or revelations.

[Dahobbs 18190]

Just now, bad_teammate said:

I don't keep track. How about you do some sleuthing?

Better yet, tell me something genuinely good that Donald or the Republicans have done recently and I'll give you my take.

They haven't literally crapped on the constitution yet, so that's nice (at least I assume Trump has not).

[Nice Guy Eddie 13707]

I’m all for talking but this summit seems to have barely passed the bar for any achievements. Hopefully future talks and summits, building on this one, will create good results. 

[Dbeasy 15526]

Nah, tldr.  I just skipped to the bottom.   Your previous takes are so lacking in context and critical thought that there's no point.   Continuing enjoying the ride watching this season of The Apprentice:  Washington Edition.

I knew you wouldn’t pay attention. If you had, you would have noticed that I stated very clearly how much I hate Trump. Your zinger makes no sense. Of course zingers take far less effort than self reflection, so I’m not surprised.

[wildcat09 29558]

Just now, Caracara said:

Disappointed.  If I was South Korean I might be hopeful.  This is probably a first step to something good, but I had hoped for a lot more.  I expected to hear Kim say "we must make changes."  I expected evidence that his feet were to the fire and a gun was to his head.  I thought we had him over a barrel.   I think Kim's nuclear weapons are done for, but I was hoping we were ready to force other reforms.  The summit didn't move the process ahead by leaps and bounds. There were no great surprises or revelations.

Un, his father, and grandfather had been sitting at that table waiting for an American president to show up for that photo op for the past 60+ years. Un finally got an ICBM that could hit America, and Trump came running to sit down. Only a Trump fan could look at that and think that Trump had Un over a barrel.

[Mojo Hand 4580]

Just now, Dbeasy said:

I knew you wouldn’t pay attention. 

Good — you actually got something right! 

[wildcat09 29558]

Just now, Dbeasy said:

I knew you wouldn’t pay attention. If you had, you would have noticed that I stated very clearly how much I hate Trump. Your zinger makes no sense. Of course zingers take far less effort than self reflection, so I’m not surprised.

"I hate Trump BUT I really have high hopes he's going to kick that football this time!"

[Fozzz 152]

Just now, Bateshorn said:

This is great for his popularity because it keeps talks going without yet putting requirements on the North Koreans that might be broken and fracturing the peace process.

I don't see why this is a bad thing though, particularly when our demands would require concessions we are unwilling to brook.  

[Bateshorn 9989]

1 minute ago, Fozzz said:

I don't see why this is a bad thing though, particularly when our demands would require concessions we are unwilling to brook.  

I'm not passing a value judgement on it, but make no mistake:  our interests and the South Korean's interests are not perfectly aligned.  They are a 1st world country with their own complex politics.  It's pretty well known inside the beltway that the S. Korean's think Trump is a moron.  Their main goal was to get through this without having the burgeon peace process (which is different than the denuclearization talks) fucked up.  Mission accomplished.   OTOH, Trump fucked the Japanese by not discussing North Korean abduction of Japanese citizens.

[DixonHur 11941]

9 minutes ago, Caracara said:

Disappointed.  If I was South Korean I might be hopeful.  This is probably a first step to something good, but I had hoped for a lot more.  I expected to hear Kim say "we must make changes."  I expected evidence that his feet were to the fire and a gun was to his head.  I thought we had him over a barrel.   I think Kim's nuclear weapons are done for, but I was hoping we were ready to force other reforms.  The summit didn't move the process ahead by leaps and bounds. There were no great surprises or revelations.

I, for one, appreciate that you kept your word and admitted you were wrong about the meeting.  A rarity on this site these days.

[Armybrat 41321]

If you had told me several years ago that the most "successful" US negotiators with the Norks would be DJT and Dennis Rodman, I'd have to assume the entire country was on an LSD/'shroom cocktail binge.

But color me even more shocked that Singapore hasn't spontaneously detonated from the critical mass concentration of the world's two worst haircuts bullshitting each other and everybody.

Can't wait to see Doonesbury's take on this.

Edited June 12, 2018 by Armybrat

[Ragnarok 103]

24 minutes ago, kevwun said:

War games in an area where an an actual war could happen are not useless.

But they are awfully easy to reinstate when we want to show our displeasure in a nice splashy way.

[wildcat09 29558]

Just now, DixonHur said:

I, for one, appreciate that you kept your word and admitted you were wrong about the meeting.  A rarity on this site these days.

I'll cosign this.

[Caracara 41]

1 minute ago, wildcat09 said:

Un, his father, and grandfather had been sitting at that table waiting for an American president to show up for that photo op for the past 60+ years. Un finally got an ICBM that could hit America, and Trump came running to sit down. Only a Trump fan could look at that and think that Trump had Un over a barrel.

I didn't vote for Trump.  I did think he had a special relationship with the military, and was about to accomplish something major and drastic due to previously un-utilized US military intelligence and strategic power.

What is happening is preferable to world war, or letting things get worse. But there's no obvious urgency from Kim.  I wanted Kim to make a speech about major change and a new era.

[GSU&UT 1799]

15 minutes ago, retread said:

jlawokay.gif

Just came to post this, I mean it's all a step in the right direction right? Anyone who says otherwise is just a butthurt lib?

[HenryJames 67116]

2 minutes ago, Caracara said:

I did think he had a special relationship with the military...

Based on what?

[Dahobbs 18190]

Just now, Caracara said:

I didn't vote for Trump.  I did think he had a special relationship with the military, and was about to accomplish something major and drastic due to previously un-utilized US military intelligence and strategic power.

Trump hasn't utilized intelligence in a very long time.

[Brisketexan 106627]

14 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Things I think:

(1): I'm not convinced economic sanctions have ever accomplished anything meaningful or good;

(2): I don't think isolating a country has ever accomplished anything meaningful and generally just ends up in fucking that country up more;

(3): Economic integration is a far more successful way towards peace and prosperity

(4): I actually like that Trump (who is terrible and does everything for terrible reasons) is trying something new with North Korea--I just wish one of our previous actual grown-up Presidents were in charge;

(5): Trump, predictably, accomplished nothing but touting his own greatness;

I share this take in general.  There is reason for some small measure of optimism.  I DO like "trying something different."  But it seems that what was accomplished here was (1) giving the NORKs a great deal of legitimacy and a PR coup, and (2) an agreement to maybe agree on some stuff later (the devil ain't just in the details -- the devil IS the details, verification and whatnot).  But, other than giving them something and not getting anything tangible (yet) in return, it wasn't a step backwards.  Which is its own kind of success.

11 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

I’m all for talking but this summit seems to have barely passed the bar for any achievements. Hopefully future talks and summits, building on this one, will create good results. 

This.  It was mostly a PR and ego deal.  Seems that both of the guys with bad haircuts are happy.  So, there's that.

9 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Un, his father, and grandfather had been sitting at that table waiting for an American president to show up for that photo op for the past 60+ years. Un finally got an ICBM that could hit America, and Trump came running to sit down. Only a Trump fan could look at that and think that Trump had Un over a barrel.

Yeah, leverage was not really in play here, at all.  Trump doesn't even understand what all leverage we HAD, because he's incapable of thinking like his opponent -- he only thinks like himself, and presumes that everyone else in the world does as well.  Makes for some funny engagements.

[Bateshorn 9989]

Previous Administration's D/R and the media have portrayed the North Koreans as weirdos for so long, people began to believe it.

They are rational actors, who have nuclear leverage and are now moving to take advantage of perceived confusion/weakness in US governance to further their long term goals. Which, frankly, is what they should be doing.

[Anastasis 23699]

11 minutes ago, staboner said:

there are plenty of posters here also wishing the best. see mojo, myself, anastasis and a few others. probably the minority, but at least some of us

a few things here. 

the US stands for human rights and democracy. that is one of our founding and hopefully still fucking standing in 2020 or 2024 values. trump very clearly has nothing to do or say here on these matters and instead is slowly pinching allies (who do espouse these values) while high fiving leaders and countries that don't.

we need to stop all the military exercises and trim some presence there. i am all for that for a myriad of reasons

in this meeting i think trump could have really hammered home some kind of statement from Un on something related to democratic reform or human rights of any type. Hey let the peace corp in to help you grow tree bark for your starving people. no fucking clue what that may look like (but that is why the work if fucking hard). and then in exchange we stop some exercises and you tone the nuke chatter down. 

instead we see a Trump who likes Un, probably because they both blow each other's ego a bit and are comfortable not getting much of anything done.

I disagreed with everyone on this subject much earlier in this thread. i thought this was a huge opportunity for the US and the west. Its time to bring NK out of the dark and start talking about human rights. who cares if they can't follow through with it. this isn't the 90s. this now and the world, the twiiterverse and all the new shit we have has changed what a summit like that can look like and what it can accomplish. 

bravo to trump for trying, but i believe it wasn't for the right reasons and he did s shitty job negotiating and getting anything worthwhile accomplished. i never believed he would, so no sweat off my back. just happy it happened

happy no nuke tuesdays my Gs

The rep caps suck.

Is the likelihood of NK deploying nuclear weapons in aggression during the next decade lesser today than it was yesterday?  Than it was Nov 9 2016?  My forward looking assessment would be that it is, in extremely small magnitude, on both counts. Historic F2F meetings with the South Korean leadership and the American leadership can be a pivotal point for progress and de-escalation of the region. I generally prefer meetings and dialog over executing war games in hair trigger regions of the world which lead to missile tests in response.  Surprised (not surprised) to see so many posters on the left all the sudden bemoaning the lost opportunity for the MIC to throw more missiles into the side of a mountain and overfly strategic bombers in a highly militarized region of the world. The extent that we have moved the odds is quite small at this point, but there is opportunity for big strides to be made. That's a good thing in what is a really fucked up world right now. To be clear, I agree with staboner and agree that we have not really moved the ball at all in terms of a concrete agreement, but I prefer Trump and Kim exchanging a hand shake and smiles and de-escalating military activities over tweets about ending the human race. 

[SmokeyTheBear 5569]

5 minutes ago, Caracara said:

I didn't vote for Trump.  I did think he had a special relationship with the military, and was about to accomplish something major and drastic due to previously un-utilized US military intelligence and strategic power.

What is happening is preferable to world war, or letting things get worse. But there's no obvious urgency from Kim.  I wanted Kim to make a speech about major change and a new era.

Kim will have a speech but it will be directed to his country that they are now a world power, that they got big bad evil America to the table and was able to get us to back down from our military games. All this will be done with the videos of crowds cheering for Kim in Singapore in the background. Kim is now man of the people and has solidified his position in the area. We now have to contend with their tactics a lot longer. 

Edited June 12, 2018 by SmokeyTheBear

[Anastasis 23699]

Just now, Bateshorn said:

Previous Administration's D/R and the media have portrayed the North Koreans as weirdos for so long, people began to believe it.

They are rational actors, who have nuclear leverage and are now moving to take advantage of perceived confusion/weakness in US governance to further their long term goals. Which, frankly, is what they should be doing.

 

[Lagunamadre 1975]

5 minutes ago, Armybrat said:

If you had told me several years ago that the most "successful" US negotiators with the Norks would DJT and Dennis Rodman, I'd have to assume the entire country was on an LSD/'shroom cocktail binge.

But color me even more shocked that Singapore hasn't spontaneously detonated from the critical mass concentration of the world's two worst haircuts bullshitting each other and everybody.

Can't wait to see Doonesbury's take on this.

Reagan, HW Bush, Clinton, W Bush and Obama administrations all had agreements, with actual details, that were much better than what Trump got last night, which at this point is essentially nothing. 

I hope it all works out, but way too early to say Trump has negotiated anything yet. 

Here is a nice recap of all of the many agreements we've made with NK over the years: https://www.armscontrol.org/factsheets/dprkchron

[Fozzz 152]

6 minutes ago, Bateshorn said:

I'm not passing a value judgement on it, but make no mistake:  our interests and the South Korean's interests are not perfectly aligned.  They are a 1st world country with their own complex politics.  It's pretty well known inside the beltway that the S. Korean's think Trump is a moron.  Their main goal was to get through this without having the burgeon peace process (which is different than the denuclearization talks) fucked up.  Mission accomplished.   OTOH, Trump fucked the Japanese by not discussing North Korean abduction of Japanese citizens.

That's true, and I'm a lot more sympathetic to the interests of the Koreans than our own, which I see as being at the least tainted by maintaining a justification for our presence there.  

[4th&Five 41904]

 

[retread 2951]

7 minutes ago, GSU&UT said:

Just came to post this, I mean it's all a step in the right direction right? Anyone who says otherwise is just a butthurt lib?

Seems like a repeat of DOTUS' tendency to get the other person alone in a one-on-one setting, like he did with Comey. Without putting it in writing, it comes down to he said/he said, and DOTUS can claim a victory.

[Armybrat 41321]

10 minutes ago, Lagunamadre said:

Reagan, HW Bush, Clinton, W Bush and Obama administrations all had agreements, with actual details, that were much better than what Trump got last night, which at this point is essentially nothing. 

I hope it all works out, but way too early to say Trump has negotiated anything yet. 

Here is a nice recap of all of the many agreements we've made with NK over the years: https://www.armscontrol.org/factsheets/dprkchron

Did you not see the "..." marks?

And those previous negotiations all turned out to be as worthless as the aggy claims to multiple MNCs.

[Caracara 41]

9 minutes ago, HenryJames said:

Based on what?

A number of things. A former Lt Colonel and congressman said some things to someone I know.  When I heard this stuff it's possible confirmation bias kicked in.