The US and Korea

[David Dennison 18659]

1 minute ago, Amobie said:

They are already past the sale on denuclearization.  They are talking reunification.  That's a big fucking deal.  NK just released US prisoners ahead of the summit. 

https://www.ft.com/content/871bce30-4dd6-11e8-8a8e-22951a2d8493

 

I have a bridge to sell you.

[TahoeHorn 107]

When I become King of the US we will leave South Korea.  And I'll tell the Norks that if they come across the 38th parallel their country will disappear from the planet Earth.  And they would believe me, 'cause I wouldn't be bluffing.

[David Dennison 18659]

2 minutes ago, TahoeHorn said:

When I become King of the US we will leave South Korea.  And I'll tell the Norks that if they come across the 38th parallel their country will disappear from the planet Earth.  And they would believe me, 'cause I wouldn't be bluffing.

Good-bye, Seoul.

[Mojo Hand 4580]

32 minutes ago, Amobie said:

They are already past the sale on denuclearization.  They are talking reunification.  That's a big fucking deal.  NK just released US prisoners ahead of the summit. 

https://www.ft.com/content/871bce30-4dd6-11e8-8a8e-22951a2d8493

 

Can't read link without subscription.   If NK giving up their nukes is a done deal, with verification, then I'd happily give Trump all the credit he wants. 

[David Dennison 18659]

1 minute ago, Mojo Hand said:

Can't read link without subscription.   If NK giving up their nukes is a done deal, with verification, then I'd happily give Trump all the credit he wants. 

About that.

Before we give Donald of Orange the Nobel, let's all take a breath and come back to reality. 

Keep in mind this is written by someone at the American Enterprise Institute.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

North Korea is going to say everything we and Trump want to hear. Trump will get tremendous amounts of credit.  North Korea will then cheat us like they always do.

[David Dennison 18659]

Just now, Hugo Stiglitz said:

North Korea is going to say everything we and Trump want to hear. Trump will get tremendous amounts of credit.  North Korea will then cheat us like they always do.

Which is why Trump will only get credit from partisan hacks.

[Caracara 41]

1 hour ago, Mojo Hand said:

They'd have to give up everything with rigorous IAEA verification on the ground.   Planned reductions over a period of time are fine as long as there are firm stages.  I'd accept withdrawal of ours from the physical peninisula, but not Japan.   Maybe allow them a peaceful nuclear power program if the terms are right to ensure no weapons capabilities. 

But it's cool if the hostages are freed 1st right?  How about the end of the NK regime and reunification? And US military bases in the places where both their nukes and paper-mache missiles used to sit.  There's a road. No simple highway, between the dawn and the dark of night.

 

[David Dennison 18659]

Just now, Caracara said:

But it's cool if the hostages are freed 1st right?  How about the end of the NK regime and reunification? And US military bases in the places where both their nukes and paper-mache missiles used to sit.  There's a road. No simple highway, between the dawn and the dark of night.

 

There isn't going to be any reunification. That would be a death sentence for Kim. His generals would kill him. 

[Caracara 41]

2 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

There isn't going to be any reunification. That would be a death sentence for Kim. His generals would kill him. 

He's trying to stay alive right now, or can't you tell.

He's not worried about his generals.  They're all worried about ours.

Edited May 3, 2018 by Caracara

[David Dennison 18659]

1 minute ago, Caracara said:

He's trying to stay alive right now, or can't you tell.

He's trying to play our president and the south.

It's working.

[Caracara 41]

I think you're giving that fat little 35 year old swiss boarding school, hermit king from a broke-ass country, too much credit, but we shall see.

[Mojo Hand 4580]

7 minutes ago, Caracara said:

But it's cool if the hostages are freed 1st right?  How about the end of the NK regime and reunification? And US military bases in the places where both their nukes and paper-mache missiles used to sit.  There's a road. No simple highway, between the dawn and the dark of night.

 

Of course the hostages coming home is a good thing in a vacuum.  But we aren't in a vacuum.  There is a significant negotiation happening and we're being represented by a mentally unstable moron.   One whose entire career has been conning people by repackaging shit as premium product.  And there is substantial history with NK suggesting that they are trying to take advantage of the dotard by passing off old bullshit as something he can sell. 

I ain't often right, but I've never been wrong.  Seldom turns out the way it does in the song. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

7 minutes ago, Caracara said:

But it's cool if the hostages are freed 1st right?  How about the end of the NK regime and reunification? And US military bases in the places where both their nukes and paper-mache missiles used to sit.  There's a road. No simple highway, between the dawn and the dark of night.

 

If we get the hostages home, safe, and healthy, I will give Trump some credit but he should have never handed them a Summit unless the hostages were at least one precondition.

[Caracara 41]

You think we're being played?  Our commander in chief has the big button.  Goes to show you don't ever know
Watch each card you play and play it slow,
 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

I know we’re being played

the question is how much are we going to get played.

Edited May 3, 2018 by Hugo Stiglitz

[David Dennison 18659]

5 minutes ago, Caracara said:

I think you're giving that fat little 35 year old swiss boarding school, hermit king from a broke-ass country, too much credit, but we shall see.

He has a cadre of advisors who worked for his father and some who probably worked for his grandfather. They know exactly what they are doing. Handing sovereignty over to the South Koreans is probably not on their to do list.

[Caracara 41]

Just now, David Dennison said:

He has a cadre of advisors who worked for his father and some who probably worked for his grandfather. They know exactly what they are doing. Handing sovereignty over to the South Koreans is probably not on their to do list.

Oh those guys.  They don't want to die either.

[David Dennison 18659]

1 minute ago, Caracara said:

Oh those guys.  They don't want to die either.

They aren't going to. They know Donald Trump is bluffing. Just like everyone else on planet earth.

[FondrenRoad 4378]

2 minutes ago, Caracara said:

You think we're being played?  Our commander in chief has the big button.  Goes to show you don't ever know
Watch each card you play and play it slow,
 

Of course we are being played. KJU isnt going to step down. Reunification is an impossibility unless he does. We arent going to attack either. Nukes out front should have told you. 

Korea may never unify. Best they can hope for is a future open and democratic north. Even then neither would truly want to merge with one another. The populaces are too different now. 

[FondrenRoad 4378]

5 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

He has a cadre of advisors who worked for his father and some who probably worked for his grandfather. They know exactly what they are doing. Handing sovereignty over to the South Koreans is probably not on their to do list.

The big assumption yall are making is that this reunification is going to occur under the SK govt. KJU wants to unify Korea under his rule. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

China wants us off the peninsula and more influence over South Korea.  

[David Dennison 18659]

1 minute ago, FondrenRoad said:

The big assumption yall are making is that this reunification is going to occur under the SK govt. KJU wants to unify Korea under his rule. 

Was that wrong? Should I have not done that?

[Caracara 41]

2 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

They aren't going to. They know Donald Trump is bluffing. Just like everyone else on planet earth.

Not so much in saudi arabia, where there is sudden reform.  the donald has heavy duty support.  He's not bluffing with a stacked hand.

[Mojo Hand 4580]

12 minutes ago, Caracara said:

You think we're being played?  Our commander in chief has the big button.  Goes to show you don't ever know
Watch each card you play and play it slow,
 

And we've got no chance of losing, this time. 

[David Dennison 18659]

Just now, Hugo Stiglitz said:

China wants us off the peninsula and more influence over South Korea.  

Now THAT I can see happening because everyone involved in this process knows that the president of the United States is an idiot. It's no coincidence that all of this is happening with a profound moron in the White House. This is the best opportunity for China and North Korea to get what they want. They, unlike Donald Trump, aren't stupid.

[David Dennison 18659]

1 minute ago, Caracara said:

Not so much in saudi arabia, where there is sudden reform.  the donald has heavy duty support.  He's not bluffing with a stacked hand.

Everyone in the world knows that this is the best time in forever to take advantage of a momentarily weak United States. 

[Caracara 41]

We're not leaving.  We have the run of the place now.

 

 

[burntorangebongos 10681]

Fuck China.

[FondrenRoad 4378]

31 minutes ago, Caracara said:

We're not leaving.  We have the run of the place now.

 

 

We have the run of everywhere. It costs a ton, but it only matters if we step up. But we are all hat no cattle when China is concerned. We would probably sit by ans send sternly worded letters while they took Taiwan by force. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

Uh, China still claims ownership of Taiwan and I think we’re still under Nixon’s “One China Policy” and do not officially recognize Taiwan.

[FondrenRoad 4378]

2 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Uh, China still claims ownership of Taiwan and I think we’re still under Nixon’s “One China Policy” and do not officially recognize Taiwan.

Yep, but there is also the underlying assumption that we would defend Taiwan against invasion. 

[maninblack 7974]

On 4/28/2018 at 8:40 PM, WhatTheBuck said:

Perpetual war? Is that what we've been invloved with in Korea? What was the casualty count last year?

What was the casualty count of the cold war

[David Dennison 18659]

5 minutes ago, maninblack said:

What was the casualty count of the cold war

Partial.

[FondrenRoad 4378]

2 hours ago, maninblack said:

What was the casualty count of the cold war

Pretty high when you consider all the proxy skirmishes. Do the Korean and Vietnam wars ring a bell?

[maninblack 7974]

32 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

Pretty high when you consider all the proxy skirmishes. Do the Korean and Vietnam wars ring a bell?

There was a declared end to hostilities. That didn't stop the MIC though and that was the point the poster WTB was responding to was making.

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4968]

9 hours ago, David Dennison said:

Now THAT I can see happening because everyone involved in this process knows that the president of the United States is an idiot. It's no coincidence that all of this is happening with a profound moron in the White House. This is the best opportunity for China and North Korea to get what they want. They, unlike Donald Trump, aren't stupid.

If the Norks are so smart how come their country is such a dump? Seriously, some of y'all are giving them way to much credit. They've pretty much proven they have no idea how to run a country and provide for their people. China is smart. And also shares a border with the Norks who is an ally. Yet the Norks can't seem to figure out basic countrying like providing electrical infrastructure and modernish agriculture.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

8 minutes ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

They've pretty much proven they have no idea how to run a country and provide for their people.

Kim Jong Un does fine and that’s all that matters. They never gave a shit about their people.  Most of the wealth belongs to the military in NK.  

China uses North Korea for their own geopolitical objectives.  Why on earth would China ever allow NK to develop nuclear ICBMs? They could have shut that shit down anytime with a phone call but they didn’t.  And now the United States is capitulating with a Summit and who knows what else.

China is the big winner in this.  North Korea is only a pawn.

 

[Enchubben 5509]

10 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

North Korea is going to say everything we and Trump want to hear. Trump will get tremendous amounts of credit.  North Korea will then cheat us like they always do.

Where was this line of thinking with Iran and the last president?

[SmokeyTheBear 5562]

40 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Kim Jong Un does fine and that’s all that matters. They never gave a shit about their people.  Most of the wealth belongs to the military in NK.  

China uses North Korea for their own geopolitical objectives.  Why on earth would China ever allow NK to develop nuclear ICBMs? They could have shut that shit down anytime with a phone call but they didn’t.  And now the United States is capitulating with a Summit and who knows what else.

China is the big winner in this.  North Korea is only a pawn.

 

NK before the train ride to China: "Death to America!"

NK after the train ride to China: "Great America, Please don't invade us!"

Not weird at all

[Amobie 58]

11 hours ago, Mojo Hand said:

Can't read link without subscription.   If NK giving up their nukes is a done deal, with verification, then I'd happily give Trump all the credit he wants.  

If the 2 countries are unified and democratic, it doesn't matter what NK does with their nukes.  South Korea has twice the population of the North so I don' t think we have much to worry about.

I think Kim understands that at some point, his family is going to lose control over the country.  Even if he keeps and iron grip, his sons or grandsons will eventually lose and his entire family probably ends up dead.  He was educated in the West and knows how fucked up his country is even if his people don't.  If he exits now, he's go down in history like Gorbachev instead of a Gaddafi or Saddam.

[Amobie 58]

1 hour ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Kim Jong Un does fine and that’s all that matters. They never gave a shit about their people.  Most of the wealth belongs to the military in NK.  

China uses North Korea for their own geopolitical objectives.  Why on earth would China ever allow NK to develop nuclear ICBMs? They could have shut that shit down anytime with a phone call but they didn’t.  And now the United States is capitulating with a Summit and who knows what else.

China is the big winner in this.  North Korea is only a pawn.

 

That is the most twisted partisan view you could possibly have.

China is losing North Korea as a buffer.  Japan and South Korea are the biggest winners.  The South now has a huge military arsenal on their north border to defend against Chinese invasions.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

Riiiight.  

[Mojo Hand 4580]

5 minutes ago, Amobie said:

If the 2 countries are unified and democratic, it doesn't matter what NK does with their nukes.  South Korea has twice the population of the North so I don' t think we have much to worry about.

I think Kim understands that at some point, his family is going to lose control over the country.  Even if he keeps and iron grip, his sons or grandsons will eventually lose and his entire family probably ends up dead.  He was educated in the West and knows how fucked up his country is even if his people don't.  If he exits now, he's go down in history like Gorbachev instead of a Gaddafi or Saddam.

Oh, you're DSA.  Still pushing laughable propaganda, I see. 

[Amobie 58]

20 minutes ago, Mojo Hand said:

Oh, you're DSA.  Still pushing laughable propaganda, I see. 

What the fuck are you talking about?  This shit is all over the news that the North wants to reunify with the South.  Considering it's a 2:1 population ratio in favor of the South, are you really that stupid to think Kim thinks he will win an election?

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/05/01/north-koreans-speak-hope-unification-propaganda-speakers-dismantled/

“Right now you can just stop anywhere and hear talk of unification all around you”

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/03/north-korea-seeks-closer-south-korea-ties-reunification-180306062814201.html

 

They are saying their goal is unification.  That's a fact, not some tinfoil hatter response.

 

Edited May 3, 2018 by Amobie

[Mojo Hand 4580]

[WhatTheBuck 28713]

2 hours ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

If the Norks are so smart how come their country is such a dump? Seriously, some of y'all are giving them way to much credit. They've pretty much proven they have no idea how to run a country and provide for their people. China is smart. And also shares a border with the Norks who is an ally. Yet the Norks can't seem to figure out basic countrying like providing electrical infrastructure and modernish agriculture.

Dictatorships. How do they work?

The Kim family has held an iron grip on power for seventy years. You're judging by the wrong criteria. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

Yeah, China would be completely on board with unified free and open democratic Korea.

/sarcasm 

[Amobie 58]

Just now, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Yeah, China would be completely on board with unified free and open democratic Korea.

/sarcasm 

Then we should probably do our best to try and encourage it right?  It would be a big shift in the balance of power in our favor.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

Capitulating with a Summit for a third rate brutal dictator is a great way to progress the ideals of human rights and democracy.

Edited May 3, 2018 by Hugo Stiglitz