Soccer Style Relegation in CFB?

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

Quote

* Your conference affiliation is impacted by which programs you buddied up to 100 years ago. It has little to do with what you’ve accomplished, or proved you could accomplish, on the field in modern times.

* The conference you happen to be in thus determines so much about your standing in the sport, from your revenue to your competition to your chance at a title.

* European soccer long ago introduced promotion and relegation, or breaking one enormous league — England’s Football League or Germany’s Deutscher Fußball-Bund, for instance — into tiers. The top teams in a league’s tier get to move up, and the bottom teams have to move down. (See below for how this would work in CFB.)

* Aside from maybe college basketball, no American sport — not even soccer — would benefit from or more seamlessly fit this than college football. We have so many teams, in every part of the country, with such clearly defined levels of prestige to strive for.

I love the idea because Baylor would have been relegated in 2004 and not promoted again until 2011, and that came about only because they hired Briles. He never would have gone to Waco if they were in a lower division, so Baylor would have been gone forever, maybe duking it out with Mary Hardin-Baylor by this time. Or Incarnate Word. Shit, they did that anyway... 

UH, whose fans I have come to see as the worst in-state only behind only Baylor and aggy, would have been promoted in 2010 only to be relegated the very next year. But then they made it back up, so...

It would also have had us in an 8-team playoff in 2003 (vs Michigan), 2004 (vs Cal), 2005 (vs UGA), 2008 (vs Utah), and 2009 (vs tOSU). 

Going in to last season, the Big 12 would have been  Baylor, UH, K-St, Louisville, Memphis, the Okie schools, TCU, UT, Tceh, Tulsa, and WVA. (Sorry Kansas, Iowa State. Y'all are in Tier II CUSA with Sam Houston and SMU now.) 

Downside of this is it would make NCAA football even more cut-throat than it already is. So maybe my previous idea is wrong, and lowly D-III Baylor moneywhips Briles to the Brazos and tells him to not just recruit rapists out of HS, but actual prisons. 

(Forgive me if this shit is in the realignment thread -- I don't go in there, ever.)

 

 

[Royalfan5 2354]

If you do this you damn well better being paying players and allowing transfers.

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

12 minutes ago, Royalfan5 said:

If you do this you damn well better being paying players and allowing transfers.

Yeah, that's all part of Connelly's master plan. Players are paid under the Olympic model and have the right to transfer under a NCAA athlete Bill of Rights. 

My pie in the sky dream is that we do both of those things and temporarily sever athletics from academics. For every year you play, you get a year of scholarship on down the line. While you are playing, if you want to bang out some electives or blow-off courses, you can do so, or you can take life skills classes. Of course there would have to be limits on how much time the coaches could demand of you in the off-season, so you'd need to fill those hours with something...So they could work and take a few classes at a leisurely pace and also learn about investing and how to avoid debt traps and crap like that. 

[miguelito 11266]

Whoever wrote that is a bigger fan of soccer than he is of college football.  I'm trying to be nice.

[Helobious 9454]

Am I the only person that likes college football pretty much as it is? Maybe 4 more playoff teams would be nice, but other than that I really don't think any huge changes would help the game much. 

[SizzleChest 8284]

The Big 12 self-relegates every football season.

[Lat22 4014]

I thought this was a thread on kicking. 

[ChickenSandwich 9840]

1 hour ago, Helobious said:

Am I the only person that likes college football pretty much as it is? Maybe 4 more playoff teams would be nice, but other than that I really don't think any huge changes would help the game much. 

You enjoyed the playoffs?  Seeing an SEC rematch of a conference division runner up and the team they avoided during the regular season?  Also had conference title winners and undefeated teams who don’t even get an opportunity. It’s a fucking sham

Edited April 28, 2018 by ChickenSandwich

[David Dennison 18876]

Slightly off topic, but here goes: Spin off the football and basketball programs from the parent university. Make those sports completely separate, for profit business entities that use the university brands and trademarks under license. Same colors, logos, uniforms, etc. Pay the players. If they want to attend classes, so be it. If not, who cares. No more NCAA. No more amateurism. 

[Sgt Hulk 13741]

If they want to go to school  and the schools are paying them,  then make them pay for their classes like the rest of us commoners.  Then we can get the checkered past kids who cant qualify academically and go to bama instead 

[David Dennison 18876]

3 minutes ago, Sgt Hulk said:

If they want to go to school  and the schools are paying them,  then make them pay for their classes like the rest of us commoners.  Then we can get the checkered past kids who cant qualify academically and go to bama instead 

Yes. No more athletic scholarships for participants in the sports that are spun off.

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

4 hours ago, miguelito said:

Whoever wrote that is a bigger fan of soccer than he is of college football.  I'm trying to be nice.

Yeah, that describes Bill Connelly to a tee. That's like saying Bill James is a bigger fan of bullfighting than he is baseball because he likes to eat steak. 

[Phillip91 2]

The cheating would be 100 times worse because of how important big time sports are to universities. That would also make college football have much less national appeal since all the schools would be in a handful of states with the most talent.

[Pato del Muerto 52507]

School gets relegated. Players transfer. Recruits stay away. Coaches stay away. Team either stays in lower classification forever or stays in the relegation/promotion group and is constantly shuffling back and forth. 

Teams at the top of the highest classification stay there, business as usual. 

Sounds grand. You can’t moneywhip your way up the ladder like you can professional soccer. 

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

50 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

School gets relegated. Players transfer. Recruits stay away. Coaches stay away. Team either stays in lower classification forever or stays in the relegation/promotion group and is constantly shuffling back and forth. 

Teams at the top of the highest classification stay there, business as usual. 

Sounds grand. You can’t moneywhip your way up the ladder like you can professional soccer. 

You are ignoring the fact that for every team that gets relegated, another gets promoted. 

[Pato del Muerto 52507]

No, I’m not. 

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

9 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

No, I’m not. 

Do you even Newton's Third Law bro? 

[Guest]

23 hours ago, Helobious said:

Am I the only person that likes college football pretty much as it is? Maybe 4 more playoff teams would be nice, but other than that I really don't think any huge changes would help the game much. 

The game is fantastic.

The administration of D1 is so corrupt, it makes the IOC, FIFA, and our Congress all feel pretty fucking pristine and free of shenanigans.

[Randolph Duke 4034]

If you have relegation, you have massively different cash flows for marginal programs. If Baylor gets relegated, they don’t build their new stadium. Without the new stadium,  they don’t get the support when times are good. Eventually, marginal programs financially wither and die. 

[Surly Bevo 24964]

I'd rather see this employed in some professional leagues here long before anybody thinks it would be a good idea for CFB (it's not) 

Promotion/Relegation would work in the MLB and NBA.

[Sidney Sherman 66]

This would work with a rig12 and pac 12 merger.

26 teams, the shitty 10 teams play each other then two divisions each with 8 teams that play a couple of inter division games and a championship game.

The top and bottom get changed. The SEC/ACC can do it too, along with the Big10 and the best from the rest of the confrences. 

Lol

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/402328-pac-10big-12-merger-now-certain-what-will-the-new-conference-be-named

[Sidney Sherman 66]

12 hours ago, Randolph Duke said:

If you have relegation, you have massively different cash flows for marginal programs. If Baylor gets relegated, they don’t build their new stadium. Without the new stadium,  they don’t get the support when times are good. Eventually, marginal programs financially wither and die. 

My vote is for Baylor withering and dying ASAP.

[Grade of D as in David 13253]

On 4/28/2018 at 12:00 PM, David Dennison said:

Slightly off topic, but here goes: Spin off the football and basketball programs from the parent university. Make those sports completely separate, for profit business entities that use the university brands and trademarks under license. Same colors, logos, uniforms, etc. Pay the players. If they want to attend classes, so be it. If not, who cares. No more NCAA. No more amateurism. 

Not saying this is a bad idea but women's sports die without title ix to prop them up under the current plan.

[Wally Fairway 5550]

On ‎4‎/‎28‎/‎2018 at 7:21 AM, MaybeACoordinator said:

Yeah, that's all part of Connelly's master plan. Players are paid under the Olympic model and have the right to transfer under a NCAA athlete Bill of Rights. 

My pie in the sky dream is that we do both of those things and temporarily sever athletics from academics. For every year you play, you get a year of scholarship on down the line. While you are playing, if you want to bang out some electives or blow-off courses, you can do so, or you can take life skills classes. Of course there would have to be limits on how much time the coaches could demand of you in the off-season, so you'd need to fill those hours with something...So they could work and take a few classes at a leisurely pace and also learn about investing and how to avoid debt traps and crap like that. 

I've thought this for quite a while, allows the University to still earn funding from the revenue sports. It would also sever the link between scholarships and Title IX, let the club teams pay players, as you said also allow them to pay tuition, market sets the price for elite (4-5 star) athletes, and lower scale or players who want a shot at the big time or just a way to pay for/get into a specific school can still choose to play there.

We all know that the schools know how to squeeze money out of branding and licensing (cough ... Bevo ... couch).

And the 2nd tier conferences can still go the way they are, earn a payday or two playing against bigger club teams, but still play for MAC, Conf USA, Mtn West, etc championships.
But it would take a massive incentive ($$$$'s) to make all the big time FBS teams severe their University sport linkage.

[Bigjohns97 125]

Horrible Idea, but I will take another 4 teams in the playoff with at least one of them having the option for an undefeated non-P5 school.

[High Plains Drifter 11050]

On 4/28/2018 at 9:25 AM, Helobious said:

Am I the only person that likes college football pretty much as it is?

Probably.

 

And I'm probably the only person that likes college football the way it was before the BCS.

[Doc Holliday 199]

Without the NCAA-Industrial-Complex making their money in a clear and discernable way, this will never happen.  Fun thought experiment though. 

[Eskimohorn 5635]

Slightly off topic, but here goes: Spin off the football and basketball programs from the parent university. Make those sports completely separate, for profit business entities that use the university brands and trademarks under license. Same colors, logos, uniforms, etc. Pay the players. If they want to attend classes, so be it. If not, who cares. No more NCAA. No more amateurism. 

Creates more problems than it solves.

How about we instead reform the NCAA, ensure all athletes get 4-year scholarships, better health coverage, decrease practice times, ensure athletes attend real classes.

[txhorns 2409]

Why is it that soccer fans are always trying to push their shit into other sports? 

[hookem48 4688]

On 4/28/2018 at 11:06 AM, ChickenSandwich said:

You enjoyed the playoffs?  Seeing an SEC rematch of a conference division runner up and the team they avoided during the regular season?  Also had conference title winners and undefeated teams who don’t even get an opportunity. It’s a fucking sham

The playoffs were fucking awesome and the two best teams played for the title, it's a fucking sham but it worked.

[ChickenSandwich 9840]

Not sure how you could ever pretend to know that with the teams with the same record who were never given the shot. 

Georgia was the only impressive win of their season. Troy shared their Victory over LSU. UCF soundly beat the only other good team they played in Auburn. But at least your opinion was validated by beating a fellow conference team. 

[hookem48 4688]

7 hours ago, ChickenSandwich said:

Not sure how you could ever pretend to know that with the teams with the same record who were never given the shot. 

Georgia was the only impressive win of their season. Troy shared their Victory over LSU. UCF soundly beat the only other good team they played in Auburn. But at least your opinion was validated by beating a fellow conference team. 

You're right, Troy and UCF should have played for the title.

[NeverMarryAStripper 21907]

Would have been fine with me

[ButtFumble 5180]

this idea is stupid and would destroy the sport

it would be impossible to schedule with this shit headed idea and live fan support would drop to zero even for good teams because fans are not going to book hotel rooms 9 months in advance if they have no clue who their team might be playing

how would this work you have booked for Texas OU weekend and suddenly you find that one of the teams has been relegated so now you have your Texas State Fair weekend booked to see your team play some pile of shit no one gives a fuck about like north Texas state

how in the fuck does it work for other sports so Kansas is relegated for football and they are playing the teams from the Southland Conference or some equivalent from the mid west in football, but they still play the Big 12 in basketball?

so now their AD has to figure out what hotels are not a total pile of shit for their team to stay at when they play Central Arkansas in football or when they play SHSU instead of knowing where they will stay when they come to Austin or Lubbock

are fans of Kansas or any similar program even going to try to travel to those games because they have no clue where to stay and no fucks given about where to eat or what to do in Huntsville and the reward for SHSU is most likely taking a shit kicking by a team that has D1-A level recruits and more recruits overall and they get pretty much ZERO visiting fans for that shit kicking at their stajium......that sounds really appealing to SHSU as much as it does to Kansas

college football games especially in the OOC are scheduled as many as 8 or 9 years out and that is done for a reason.....how the fuck does that work when there is some stupid relegation bullshit involved and suddenly Stanford goes on another one of their 6 year runs of winning 2 or 3 games and you now are going to play them in a home and home series that you set up 7 years ago and hey are a D1-AA pile of shit

this stupid shit works in the pros because the pros can do things like make trades and the pros have something called a DRAFT ORDER where shitty teams can go to the market and get better players or pick hopefully better players with their lower draft picks

in college with recruiting it is not like SHSU will suddenly get shit hot with recruiting because they got bumped up for two years they will simply take a shit ton of Ls for two years and then get bumped right back down

and for the stupid dick heads talking about "Houston getting bumped up" well those dumb fucks are already D1-A and their shitty conference has their stupid as fuck P6 stickers the only difference is they have shitty fan support, shitty donors that don't give a fuck and the media sees no reason to pay the conference they are in the same money as other conferences......based on those factors that are IN THEIR CONTROL for the most part why in the fuck should they suddenly get a slice of the pie of some other conference because they had a winning season or two....they spend $25+ million or so from the academic side and they still cannot come close to keeping up with other programs in budget and facilities that spend 1/5 of that from the academic side

if they want to "play with the big boys" they need to get their dick head supporters to pay more for tickets or to sell more shitty seafood and make bigger donations and get their rest of their conference to be worth a fuck and attract some fans and viewers and get a decent media contract

Edited May 10, 2018 by ButtFumble

[ButtFumble 5180]

delete

Edited May 10, 2018 by ButtFumble

[Zepol87 9188]

On 4/28/2018 at 9:27 AM, SizzleChest said:

The Big 12 self-relegates every football season.

Fucking avatar kills me

[Ghost of LL 15531]

On 4/29/2018 at 9:28 PM, Sidney Sherman said:

This would work with a rig12 and pac 12 merger.

26 teams, the shitty 10 teams play each other then two divisions each with 8 teams that play a couple of inter division games and a championship game.

The top and bottom get changed. The SEC/ACC can do it too, along with the Big10 and the best from the rest of the confrences. 

Lol

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/402328-pac-10big-12-merger-now-certain-what-will-the-new-conference-be-named

I like this idea, but I would reverse it.  Ten teams in the top-flight league, so that they each have to play each other.  Then two divisions in the lower league, and the two divisional champions can have a play-off game for promotion.

[Nivek 16936]

people who keep fucking around with CFB need to be impaled ass to mouth and lined up on a road in such a way as to make Vlad stand up and clap.   

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

9 hours ago, ButtFumble said:

this idea is stupid and would destroy the sport

it would be impossible to schedule with this shit headed idea and live fan support would drop to zero even for good teams because fans are not going to book hotel rooms 9 months in advance if they have no clue who their team might be playing

how would this work you have booked for Texas OU weekend and suddenly you find that one of the teams has been relegated so now you have your Texas State Fair weekend booked to see your team play some pile of shit no one gives a fuck about like north Texas state

Just as there is very little danger that Man United or Arsenal will ever get relegated, the same goes for us and the gooners. Even with our recent suckitude and theirs under Blake, neither was in real danger of being tossed out of the top tier. 

[ButtFumble 5180]

4 hours ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

Just as there is very little danger that Man United or Arsenal will ever get relegated, the same goes for us and the gooners. Even with our recent suckitude and theirs under Blake, neither was in real danger of being tossed out of the top tier. 

 

while this is true there is also every chance that other teams in the Big 12 get sent down and are you really interested in playing SHSU instead of Bayoor

and you can pretend that teams in the MWC, AAC and maybe some teams from the MAC, Sunbelt and CUSA and a few move ups will be happy to take a spot as the "lower level" of the teams in the relegation scheme, but more likely all those conferences and teams will say that they are D1-A and that "relegation" is down to D1-AA

never mind that no matter how you slice it as far as conference and divisions goes the scheduling is just stupid and would be impossible and the end result would be the loyal fans of top teams going to away games would drop off dramatically and the home attendance of top teams would even take a hit as well when it becomes a big unknown about who you are going to play for some games or where you might travel to some games and long term that will kill fan interest

unlike pro sports college teams still depend on rivalries even smaller ones to matter and they depend on away games, visiting teams fans and their own fans perhaps staying in touch with their team through being able to see an away game on a semi regular basis

when you look at the SEC SEC SEC or the big 10 as an example where there was a long time group of 10, 11 or 12 teams before it went to 14 there are a shit ton of fans of schools like tOSU, Alabama, Florida, Georgia, Michigan and the like that stay in touch with those teams by being able to go to an away game for those teams that is close to them IE they live in Atlanta and it is easy to go see Alabama play in Athens Vs getting to Tuscaloosa especially if getting to Tuscaloosa means committing to buying a 3 game mini package and they know they are not going to make 3 Alabama home games most years

or UT fans living in Amarillo or Odessa they can make a UT game every other year in Lubbock and that keeps them active as a fan

you start taking away those games with a 14 team conference and suddenly an Alabama fan is not going to see them come to Georgia for 7 years and when that one game finally comes their wife's vag itches and they can't go well eventually those fans become much more casual fans of the sport and so do their offspring that no longer have a biannual trip with the family to see Alabama play or to see Texas play.......then you mix in stupid shit where that program they usually visit gets relegated and that game again goes away and you have some fans that were pretty supportive and that looked forward to a game every other year as a big family trip perhaps not seeing their team play live for 15 fucking years

pro sports like the Dallas Cowboys rely on fans that buy season ticket packages in Odessa and split them between two or even three couples and each couple gets a few of those games to make the trip from Odessa to Dallas a couple of times a year out of that package or they rely on fans from Big Spring that all get together each year and charter a bus to go see the Cowboys play some game

the college game relies more on fans that follow their team on a regular basis to close by away games and then perhaps make one home game a year because they live further from Austin or Gainesville

you start taking away those away games that those fans make a regular trip to and that interest that keeps them around so perhaps they also see a home game every other year or two and you replace it with random shit that those fans are not going to regularly see and that cuts into the games they regularly see and it turns things to shit and fans decide that it is easier to just watch at home or their kids get involved in other shit and suddenly the time to make a trip to a game is spoken for

there is a reason that attendance is down in college sports even though many teams are building bigger and fancier stajums and there is a reason it started to happen when conference expansion (and over expansion) happened and it is because as the ability to know when and where a team is going to be playing regularly becomes more difficult to follow fans become less and less interested in making that effort to see a live game and when you start mixing in relegation and who in the fuck knows who and where we will be playing and it will most likely be some shitty game anyway well fans will just stay the fuck away in droves

especially considering that colleges do not have the ability to totally remake their team through free agency, trades, and getting higher quality players in the draft it will pretty much be a case of teams moving up, getting the shit kicked out of them and moving right back down and you can pretend that "UH replaces Baylor" or some shit like that or even SHSU replaces Baylor, but most likely Baylor as bad as they were at the D1-A level will still kick the shit out of the D1-AA schedule they have and then they will replace Kansas even is SHSU or houston stays moved up and then Kansas will most likely kick the shit out of their D1-AA schedule and Texas Tech or ISU will move down and then who in the fuck knows what kind of dumb shit conference you have from there and fans stay away in droves

not to mention that 20,000 new fans of UH or SHSU are not suddenly going to rise up from the ashes and those programs do not have seats in their stajium for those fans even if they did suddenly appear out of nowhere so you still have weak dick programs at the bottom of your conference barely hanging on either waiting to be replaced or hanging on waiting to see if some other program that is in the conference can bee a bit weaker and get replaced by some other D1-AA move up that has shitty fan support, facilities and budgets and that is not suddenly going to recruit 3 and 4 star players to compete long term all the more so when their coach leaves ASAP...do you really think that you hold fan interest y Texas playing OU, OkState, WVU and then a rotation of who the fuck knows from God knows where at the bottom of the conference schedule plus some OOC games that might or might not be against a team that is still in D1-A at the time the game takes place 8 years after it was scheduled

 

soccer people need to go be a fan of kickball and whatever shit they do and stop trying to fuck up college football more than it is

Edited May 11, 2018 by ButtFumble

[52-80 19162]

Alabama:  "we support this... as long as we're allowed to play Tier 2 opponents"

[irishtexan 11519]

 

[Longhornmaniac8 255]

I actually really like this idea. It would keep things incredibly interesting, week-in, week-out. It also likely would mean you're not out of it after a couple of losses.

You'd be playing against other teams that are roughly the same caliber, and there would be more parity than there currently is. 

Of course, there is the issue of rivalries, which I think is the biggest hurdle to overcome. It's tough. I'd probably trade the occasional season where we're in a different "division" for the enjoyment of all the other games, though.

That, and a promotion/relegation system really works well when there are less binary outcomes (W, L, D), which football doesn't really lend itself to. 

It's an interesting thought.

[Hurtlocker 2212]

On 5/9/2018 at 2:16 PM, Eskimohorn said:

 

Creates more problems than it solves.

How about we instead reform the NCAA, ensure all athletes get 4-year scholarships, better health coverage, decrease practice times, ensure athletes attend real classes.

 

Apparently the genius way to avoid this one is to allow non-athletes to attend the same fake classes.   That way its not benefiting athletics.

Thanks UNC!