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The Falcon and the Winter Soldier on Disney+

mdmost

By mdmost
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UT_OB1

UT_OB1 2225

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10 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

Depends on what happens with Wanda in the Doctor Strange movie.  

I think they’ve already shown she’s going to be good. Don’t think they’d rehash the “is she evil?” storyline right after this. I think she will be the next team’s  version of Hulk - the one that has the potential to flip out and make a mess for the team, or Bucky or a powered version of BW - someone willing to get their hands dirty but is inherently good.  
 

From a pure business standpoint, I think she’s probably the best female powered person they’ve got right now that could be part of the core team or even lead it, which is what I think they’ll go for on team 2. Not sure Cap Marvel has the buy in yet from fans, and who knows if they’ll get there. Don’t think they’d risk it by making her the bad guy to fight. 

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Captainant

Captainant 27775

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Marvel put out a mid-season sneak peek for last couple episodes of the season, put in spoilers below. I wasn't too hot on the first few episodes of the show since it was mainly exposition without much new happening, but I've really enjoyed the turn it took

Spoiler

 

 

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NoName

NoName 16406

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 4/9/2021 at 11:24 PM, CooterBrown said:

No way they don’t give us a Zemo series right? The Mouse is smart and they know what’s up.

Retcon his story and he can be a lone Wolf anti hero...doing good in bad ways.

let's see him as the Power Broker doing wild shit with a bunch of cameos and baller jackets.

Edited by NoName
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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 89800

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1 hour ago, Captainant said:

Marvel put out a mid-season sneak peek for last couple episodes of the season, put in spoilers below. I wasn't too hot on the first few episodes of the show since it was mainly exposition without much new happening, but I've really enjoyed the turn it took

Okay, that raises some interesting points.

Spoiler

Looks like Sam talks to Isaiah Bradley again.  Looks like John Walker was put on some kind of trial, which could lead to him losing the shield to Sam.

 

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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 89800

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@Captainant piggybacking on that, this is some stuff that people have been talking about - Marvel has been laying the groundwork for another super group, and more and more pieces are falling into place with Falcon and the Winter Soldier, and setting up future movies/team-ups.

And it actually makes sense why they had to get the Black Widow movie out.

Spoiler

There is a group in the comics called the Thunderbolts, associated with Ross Thunderbolt and formed/led by Baron Zemo at various times

Reformed supervillains of sorts

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thunderbolts_(comics)

The comic book group includes these characters that have been brought into the MCU through the movies or TV series:

  • Baron Zemo
  • Yelena Belova as Black Widow (her take on BW is being introduced in the Black Widow movie in a few months)
  • Ghost - introduced in Ant-Man and the Wasp.
  • Taskmaster (being introduced in the Black Widow movie)
  • The Abomination - intro'd in the The Incredible Hulk (Tim Roth isn't doing a lot these days)
  • Batroc - both in the Winter Soldier movie and in the Falcon/WS series

US Agent has been associated with them at times, although not a member, but MCU has no problems making changes in characters

 

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Parliament

Parliament 14297

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Posted
[mention=51]Captainant[/mention] piggybacking on that, this is some stuff that people have been talking about - Marvel has been laying the groundwork for another super group, and more and more pieces are falling into place with Falcon and the Winter Soldier, and setting up future movies/team-ups.
And it actually makes sense why they had to get the Black Widow movie out.
Spoiler

There is a group in the comics called the Thunderbolts, associated with Ross Thunderbolt and formed/led by Baron Zemo at various times
Reformed supervillains of sorts
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thunderbolts_(comics)
The comic book group includes these characters that have been brought into the MCU through the movies or TV series:

  • Baron Zemo
  • Yelena Belova as Black Widow (her take on BW is being introduced in the Black Widow movie in a few months)
  • Ghost - introduced in Ant-Man and the Wasp.
  • Taskmaster (being introduced in the Black Widow movie)
  • The Abomination - intro'd in the The Incredible Hulk (Tim Roth isn't doing a lot these days)
  • Batroc - both in the Winter Soldier movie and in the Falcon/WS series
US Agent has been associated with them at times, although not a member, but MCU has no problems making changes in characters

 

I wish they hadn't killed off Rumlow. He's a good character for this universe.
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Dutch

Dutch 4479

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Posted
10 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

Holy fuck, how did they keep that cameo a secret.   
 

  Hide contents

https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Valentina_Allegra_de_Fontaine_(Earth-616)

 

 

7 hours ago, d2o said:

Its real and its spectacular

Spoiler

https://screenrant.com/falcon-winter-soldier-cameo-black-widow-movie-valentina-fontaine/
 

Rumor is we should have been introduced to her last April. But Covid.

 

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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 89800

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Dutch said:

last April.

Spoiler

Yep, that's what I'm hearing - that was a big cameo/character in the Black Widow movie that would have crossed to the TV series, instead of now being the other way around. 

It was supposed to be, in order:

  1. Black Widow film
  2. Falcon/Winter Soldier TV series
  3. WandaVision

 

But here we are.

Spoiler

And it feels like she won't be a major player in F/WS - looks like Sharon is the Power Broker.  But Fontaine's intro indicates John Walker will survive the series, and does set everything up nicely for US Agent, and potentially the Thunderbolts.

 

Edited by atomheartbevo
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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 89800

Posted
Posted

I know many viewers are not hardcore comic book fans, but I've got to give Marvel credit - between WandaVision and especially Falcon/Winter Soldier, they've been introducing a lot of comic book characters that were around for decades, but unknown to the general public.

I honestly think Feige and Co. not having access to the X-Men, Fantastic Four, and Spidey characters for the first 10 years or so was the best thing that could have happened for the MCU.

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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 89800

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Posted (edited)
38 minutes ago, Scary Stranger said:

It was certainly the wokest episode.

They are pulling all of this from the comics.

Spoiler

Isaiah Bradley storylines are from 2003. Sam becoming the new Cap is from 2012-ish. US Agent/John Walker is from the 1980s. Torres as Falcon is from the time that Sam became the new Cap, Fontaine is from the 1960s, Flag Smashers/Power Broker are from the 1980s.

 

Edited by atomheartbevo
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CooterBrown

CooterBrown 18029

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Posted
So what's in the case from Wakanda?
Just a captain america themed black panther suit? Or that weird flower that gives super strength that black panther used?

I’m guessing a power absorption suit like BP since he’ll need some kind of enhancements since the serum isn’t available.
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mdmost

mdmost 43050

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I think it will be a vibranium based set of wings so they're indestructible and maybe the power absorption properties of the BP suit on his new uniform. There's no way Sam can take on super soldiers without better tech as we know he wouldn't take the serum if it still existed. 

I know some don't enjoy the writing but I like this show because it specifically dives into what the shield and Cap might mean to different Americans. That may be "woke" but I think Marvel has tried to branch out a bit and tell stories from a non-white perspective, something you really only got in the past in the comics with Black Panther stories. The Isaiah Bradley portion and the Truth comics are great because they twist something that happened in real life (Tuskegee experiments) and apply them to a world where super heroes and the desire to make more exist. The Cap movies outside of the First Avenger aren't rah rah America movies though even in that one he strives to not just be a tool for propaganda and to actually make a difference with his abilities. They show a dark side of American institutions (like Shield wanting WMDs) versus Cap who was incredibly principled.  The show has done a really good job of showing through Sam and John Walker the divergent paths of PTSD. Sure there's some hamfisted moments in the writing but so do the comics they're based on. 

I think Disney+ should've run this show first because a lot of people are comparing it to WandaVision which is pretty unfair given each is going for two totally different audiences. 

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d2o

d2o 1602

Posted
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7 hours ago, mdmost said:

I think it will be a vibranium based set of wings so they're indestructible and maybe the power absorption properties of the BP suit on his new uniform. There's no way Sam can take on super soldiers without better tech as we know he wouldn't take the serum if it still existed. 

I know some don't enjoy the writing but I like this show because it specifically dives into what the shield and Cap might mean to different Americans. That may be "woke" but I think Marvel has tried to branch out a bit and tell stories from a non-white perspective, something you really only got in the past in the comics with Black Panther stories. The Isaiah Bradley portion and the Truth comics are great because they twist something that happened in real life (Tuskegee experiments) and apply them to a world where super heroes and the desire to make more exist. The Cap movies outside of the First Avenger aren't rah rah America movies though even in that one he strives to not just be a tool for propaganda and to actually make a difference with his abilities. They show a dark side of American institutions (like Shield wanting WMDs) versus Cap who was incredibly principled.  The show has done a really good job of showing through Sam and John Walker the divergent paths of PTSD. Sure there's some hamfisted moments in the writing but so do the comics they're based on. 

I think Disney+ should've run this show first because a lot of people are comparing it to WandaVision which is pretty unfair given each is going for two totally different audiences. 

Agree with all of this.    Its annoying hearing people call this "woke".     This is real life shit.   Many other franchises have faced blowback for casting minorities in lead roles and its great in my opinion that Marvel is standing up and addressing it directly along with tying it into actual history.     Some people really just want to act like shit never happened or that shit is all gravy even now.

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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 89800

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48 minutes ago, d2o said:

Agree with all of this.    Its annoying hearing people call this "woke".     This is real life shit.   Many other franchises have faced blowback for casting minorities in lead roles and its great in my opinion that Marvel is standing up and addressing it directly along with tying it into actual history.     Some people really just want to act like shit never happened or that shit is all gravy even now.

I don't like it being called "woke", because these stories played in comic books that go back many years, even decades, and there's been over half-a-dozen different Captain Americas, including Bucky/Winter Soldier.

This was Isaiah Bradley when he was Captain America, and "woke" was not a thing 15+ years ago when this came out.

spacer.png

This was Falcon (spoilers)

Spoiler

All-New_Captain_America_Vol_1_1_Textless

 

Edited by atomheartbevo
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FORTY NINE TO ZERO

FORTY NINE TO ZERO 2652

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1 hour ago, d2o said:

Agree with all of this.    Its annoying hearing people call this "woke".     This is real life shit.   Many other franchises have faced blowback for casting minorities in lead roles and its great in my opinion that Marvel is standing up and addressing it directly along with tying it into actual history.     Some people really just want to act like shit never happened or that shit is all gravy even now.

Exactly. Nothing in the show is really woke.     It shows a multicultural america / world.  Guess what. That is america / the world.  

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atomheartbevo

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3 hours ago, Stringer said:

I am enjoying the show enough, but I certainly feel there are too many storylines going on.  It all just seems very unfocused.  

Given how solid the last few episodes have been, I would like to see at some scripts/storyboards for all of the pandemic stuff that was cut out of the first couple of episodes.

Yeah, Donya Madani dying from tuberculosis *sounds* alright, and can be excused because of the blip, etc., but the whole vaccine shipments being stolen by the Flag Smashers in risky thefts (going up against the GRC), and the thing about this taking place 6 months after everybody came back, and the GRC sitting on 6 months of vaccines/supplies, would be a lot more interesting.  

They've said the Flag Smashers were all meant to be normal-sized people, instead of Steve Rogers types, because they wanted the Flag Smashers to blend in with crowds (using the excuse that the serum was refined).  Why did they need to blend in?

And the whole GRC thing has felt really off at times.  Party City Captain America was the face of the GRC, and the Flag Smashers despised the GRC, and we were never given a reason why the GRC was such a big deal to these people - that half-assed ad didn't do much.

Then again, Black Widow was supposed to setup Phase 4, not Wanda or F/WS.  Really want to see it, but not paying $30 extra when it comes out.

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d2o

d2o 1602

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20 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

I don't like it being called "woke", because these stories played in comic books that go back many years, even decades, and there's been over half-a-dozen different Captain Americas, including Bucky/Winter Soldier.

This was Isaiah Bradley when he was Captain America, and "woke" was not a thing 15+ years ago when this came out.

spacer.png

This was Falcon (spoilers)

  Reveal hidden contents

All-New_Captain_America_Vol_1_1_Textless

 

Right, this is comic history which has always had some ties in to real life history.    Calling it "woke" is just lazy shit to try and dismiss/diminish the actual messages.  

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ChickenSandwich

ChickenSandwich 9853

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Posted (edited)

I would call it slow, not woke. Even the slow motions scenes seemed egregious. Shit Bucky was in slow mo on the dock just walking to fix the boat. 
 

It’s a good story line that with better writing would have been seamless in the show and great for character development(still is). Here the shit writing beat you over the head with it, which is fine and standard for the show (how they feel they have to spell it out for the audience), but it was a boring episode considering it was the second to last of the season.   

Edited by ChickenSandwich
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BluTechsan

BluTechsan 393

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Posted

Don't read the comics so this all new to me. Trying to keep up with all the new characters that I know nothing about is a bit much at times but as others have said, that's what we have all the YouTube "easter egg" videos for.

Having said that, I'm having a hard time buying JLD in the role of the newest character. 

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