Buttigieg/Secretary of Transportation Thread

[Orale 1087]

"Like a good butcher, his familiarity with the pig means he knows where to apply the knife."

I don't know how to quote on Tapa. That's purty writin.

[Neonmoon 38127]

36 minutes ago, Pig Bellmont said:

He mishandled the police killing of a black man who only had a knife while he was mayor- the body cam “wasn’t turned on” and I believe there were other criticisms, but I don’t think it was a secret that was a major reason he had trouble getting black voters’ support 

I know that was the reason talked about in the media, but I don’t buy the hype. Biden had race missteps in his past that could of been exploited, but he was the guy so everyone got in line. I think the same would happen for Pete if he was on the ticket. 

[wildcat09 29187]

17 hours ago, Sawbonz said:

Do you mean y’all stopped liking him when he figured out how to actually get shit done and started implementing that strategy?

Well first of all, I don't think I could've been much clearer about what I actually meant, but I guess I'll try. His immediate and drastic shift the moment he calculated that it was politically expedient to do so demonstrated that he never believed in the things some progressives liked about him, and probably that he doesn't really believe in anything at all beyond his own personal advancement.  Second, what shit do you think he figured out how to get done by moving to the center with his rhetoric? How to get himself the Secretary of Transportation gig? 

Pete is just a smarter Krysten Sinema. I know a lot of people see someone who is a good public speaker and start thinking that makes them geniuses who will be able to fix everything, but Pete isn't the Democratic party's next great hope. Unless you really think the Democratic party's goal should be to fix bread prices and deny people healthcare, I guess.

[kevwun 15595]

15 hours ago, Neonmoon said:

I know that was the reason talked about in the media, but I don’t buy the hype. Biden had race missteps in his past that could of been exploited, but he was the guy so everyone got in line. I think the same would happen for Pete if he was on the ticket. 

And the Mayor of the town has absolutely no way to stop the Police Dept from deleting video footage.  It's very likely that video was gone before Pete even knew about the incident.

[HamsterHookah 112]

5 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Well first of all, I don't think I could've been much clearer about what I actually meant, but I guess I'll try. His immediate and drastic shift the moment he calculated that it was politically expedient to do so demonstrated that he never believed in the things some progressives liked about him, and probably that he doesn't really believe in anything at all beyond his own personal advancement.  Second, what shit do you think he figured out how to get done by moving to the center with his rhetoric? How to get himself the Secretary of Transportation gig? 

Pete is just a smarter Krysten Sinema. I know a lot of people see someone who is a good public speaker and start thinking that makes them geniuses who will be able to fix everything, but Pete isn't the Democratic party's next great hope. Unless you really think the Democratic party's goal should be to fix bread prices and deny people healthcare, I guess.

Do you and @bad_teammate remember when @Neonmoon said just a page back, and I'll quote and bold and underline for the extra lulz here:

Quote

"The super progressive and far left love him"

This is the response of someone who knows absolutely nothing about what they talk about, ever. Just so remarkably on brand. 

Edited February 8, 2023 by HamsterHookah

[bad_teammate 13125]

It's cute to see that "actually get shit done" is still a Dem talking point after years of getting basically nothing done. We lost the SC and Roe was overturned. We lost the house to psychopaths, pedophiles, and people with false identities.

What the hell has Pete Buttigieg ever done in his life to make "GET SHIT DONE" anything more than a joke?

Quote

I know a lot of people see someone who is a good public speaker and start thinking that makes them geniuses who will be able to fix everything

The Dem cares, more than anything else, about feeling superior to the Republican. Pete is great at enabling that.

[Incredulity 11532]

wait, so Joe isn't going to, "Finish the job"?

[HamsterHookah 112]

7 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

It's cute to see that "actually get shit done" is still a Dem talking point after years of getting basically nothing done. We lost the SC and Roe was overturned. We lost the house to psychopaths, pedophiles, and people with false identities.

What the hell has Pete Buttigieg ever done in his life to make "GET SHIT DONE" anything more than a joke?

The Dem cares, more than anything else, about feeling superior to the Republican. Pete is great at enabling that.

[Gengs1 2583]

21 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

It's cute to see that "actually get shit done" is still a Dem talking point after years of getting basically nothing done. We lost the SC and Roe was overturned. We lost the house to psychopaths, pedophiles, and people with false identities.

What the hell has Pete Buttigieg ever done in his life to make "GET SHIT DONE" anything more than a joke?

The Dem cares, more than anything else, about feeling superior to the Republican. Pete is great at enabling that.

I love how it’s always dems fault when republicans do messed up shit. 
Rs overtime Roe after saying they would and dems get blamed.

so to echo that thing

-Nicole brown Simpson is at fault for getting killed by oj because she should Have done more to not let it happen.

-Tyre Nicholas should have done more after getting pulled over and he wouldn’t be dead

-Rodney King should have done more and wouldn’t have been beaten.

-Ukraine should have done more to make Russia happy and it wouldn’t have been invaded.

-Texas people should have done more so they didn’t freeze in the ice storm because the grid failed, if they just moved to Cancun it would have been fine

maybe we need to start blaming the right people?

Noooo, dems fault  

[fattyflattie 4636]

34 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

The Dem cares, more than anything else, about feeling superior to the Republican. Pete is great at enabling that.

Hullabaloo caneck caneck. 

[bad_teammate 13125]

20 minutes ago, Gengs1 said:

I love how it’s always dems fault when republicans do messed up shit. 

The Dems ask for our votes and then collect salaries to prevent this. This is why we give them their power. The power they specifically ask for.

The Republicans are very bad, we agree. But the Democrats are losers. And even THAT isn't a huge deal if they don't say dumb things like, "WE GET SHIT DONE!" when they absolutely do not get shit done.

It's one thing to be a loser, it's another to be a loser but talk like a winner.

GETTING SHIT DONE!

 

 

[DigglerontheHoof 21022]

I’ve always felt superior to racist cunts, because I am.

[wildcat09 29187]

It bears noting that Biden has actually gotten quite a bit done, and it's because of pressure from the left.  The progressive left really didn't functionally exist during Obama's first term and the Democratic party was pretty much entirely beholden to corporate support and fully subordinate to Republican framing of every political issue, despite holding large majorities for Obama's first two years. The centrist "get shit done" caucus ran the whole party and the result was complete electoral annihilation just 2 years after voters had overwhelmingly swept the GOP out of office for their incompetence. The Iraq war and Katrina had revealed the GOP's complete incompetence to the entire country, and then they went and capped it off with the worst recession since the great depression.  And the Dems gave them the house back within 2 years.

An actual left has grown now and wields some actual power within the Democratic party now. This has pretty inarguably had a positive effect on the party's policies, priorities, messaging, etc. They're still a long way from anything I'd consider truly effective at basic politics, but they're closer to that than they were under Obama.  And that's not because of the centrists in the party.

[Longhorn_Fan68 33825]

1 hour ago, bad_teammate said:

The Dem cares, more than anything else, about feeling superior to the Republican. Pete is great at enabling that.

 

17 minutes ago, DigglerontheHoof said:

I’ve always felt superior to racist cunts, because I am.

Democrats > Republicans. Yes, i am better than anyone who identifies as republican. It's not just the racism thing. It's also the classism thing. And the insurrection thing. Basically the whole traitor movement is a major turnoff. Glad we can clear that up. 

[WhatTheBuck 28700]

1 hour ago, bad_teammate said:

It's cute to see that "actually get shit done" is still a Dem talking point after years of getting basically nothing done. We lost the SC and Roe was overturned. We lost the house to psychopaths, pedophiles, and people with false identities.

What the hell has Pete Buttigieg ever done in his life to make "GET SHIT DONE" anything more than a joke?

The Dem cares, more than anything else, about feeling superior to the Republican. Pete is great at enabling that.

I don’t think you’re doing the Democratic Party any favors by referring to them in the first person. 

[Sawbonz 27375]

2 hours ago, wildcat09 said:

Well first of all, I don't think I could've been much clearer about what I actually meant, but I guess I'll try. His immediate and drastic shift the moment he calculated that it was politically expedient to do so demonstrated that he never believed in the things some progressives liked about him, and probably that he doesn't really believe in anything at all beyond his own personal advancement.  Second, what shit do you think he figured out how to get done by moving to the center with his rhetoric? How to get himself the Secretary of Transportation gig? 

Pete is just a smarter Krysten Sinema. I know a lot of people see someone who is a good public speaker and start thinking that makes them geniuses who will be able to fix everything, but Pete isn't the Democratic party's next great hope. Unless you really think the Democratic party's goal should be to fix bread prices and deny people healthcare, I guess.

Holy shit. Good luck with all of that.

[mchookem 16094]

the truth is nobody actually knows anything about how Pete would operate or lead the country if he were given the opportunity. he has fully and enthusiastically supported the current democratic movement/agenda, which has indeed 'gotten things done' the last two years, as evidenced last night and outlined just a few posts up. and i think we all agree that he is currently the best cheerleader/spokesperson/verbal jouster carrying that message to the masses via media appearances, including hostile audiences.

which, considering how fucking awful democrats usually are at that specifically, yes, it makes him stand out and many of us like him a great deal for that.

he said things he needed to say to stay in the game during the 2020 primary, things that most all of the candidates said, things that the guy who won said. that strategy is not unique to Pete. 

he has a particular education and career background, but he has also been a tremendous asset and loyal soldier for the current administration that has been rather successful in getting some progressive shit done.

it is not Biden's fault that Roe was overturned despite it happening during his term. i suppose he and Obama could have put tremendous pressure on RBG when they had the chance, but hindsight is 20/20, and if anything, she carries the bulk of that blame and her ghost probably haunts itself bc of it.

it is not the Democrats fault that the Republicans have evolved into the party of evil comic book villains. and complete morons, can't forget them. 

having said all that...yeah, Pete has a problem connecting with black america. or he did in 2020. maybe that has improved, i don't know, nor do i know exactly what that problem is/was. but i'm going to spend about two weeks with my extended in-law family in a few months, maybe i can get some clues 😄 

[bad_teammate 13125]

31 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

I don’t think you’re doing the Democratic Party any favors by referring to them in the first person. 

Good point, we need to make sure we don't alienate even more W and Romney voters!

[bad_teammate 13125]

Just now, mchookem said:

i suppose he and Obama could have put tremendous pressure on RBG when they had the chance, but hindsight is 20/20, and if anything, she carries the bulk of that blame and her ghost probably haunts itself bc of it.

It's not a hindsight issue. Some people who actually give a shit were screaming for it so hard that the liberal media establishment started publishing articles and thinkpieces about how Ginsburg had "earned" her right to retire whenever and everyone else could just get out of her way. Ginsburg (fuck this "RBG" gangster iconography bullshit) didn't care about her impact on the abortion question, and neither did the liberal establishment. 

The idea that she would be "haunted" by it is laughable. More liberal myth-making for their dead-eyed heroes.

She was on the court with Alito and Roberts. She knew exactly what was coming. And her plan was to go die of COVID she caught at a public wedding she officiated for the children of insanely wealthy power players. That's how much women's reproductive rights were worth to that psychopath.

[mchookem 16094]

yeah, like i said, she carries the bulk of the blame. 

[wildcat09 29187]

27 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

Holy shit. Good luck with all of that.

Ok? Good luck with what?

[SydneyCarton 47809]

1 hour ago, bad_teammate said:

The Dems ask for our votes and then collect salaries to prevent this. This is why we give them their power. The power they specifically ask for.

The Republicans are very bad, we agree. But the Democrats are losers. And even THAT isn't a huge deal if they don't say dumb things like, "WE GET SHIT DONE!" when they absolutely do not get shit done.

It's one thing to be a loser, it's another to be a loser but talk like a winner.

GETTING SHIT DONE!

 

 

How exactly would you suggest "democrats" fix widespread gerrymandering at local/statewide levels, or combat inherent ignorance that leads to voting for Republicans in those states? Snap their fingers? Click their ruby slippers together? I suppose they could go full Marcus Aurelius from Gladiator, take over the entire country, implement the education and social programs they want without the pesky things like "voting" or "democracy" and then give all that power back in...lets say 2 generations, as that is how long I think it would take to remove the stench of ignorance from this country. But you know, overthrowing the government and installing a fascist dictatorship...even if they intend to give it back...sounds sorta Republican-y to me. 

As long as democrats are playing in this system, they can't "fix" fucking abortion access at a state level. The only way to change that system at this point is wait for boomers to die or do some very Un-democratic things. Offering up abortion access as an example of democrats "being losers" is disingenuous bullshit, no matter how often they shoot themselves in the foot. 

2 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Ok? Good luck with what?

I believe he means your stupid fucking take of comparing Pete to Synema. But who knows, I'm just over here eating popcorn. 

[Longhorn_Fan68 33825]

1 minute ago, wildcat09 said:

Ok? Good luck with what?

all that

[HamsterHookah 112]

17 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

It's not a hindsight issue. Some people who actually give a shit were screaming for it so hard that the liberal media establishment started publishing articles and thinkpieces about how Ginsburg had "earned" her right to retire whenever and everyone else could just get out of her way. Ginsburg (fuck this "RBG" gangster iconography bullshit) didn't care about her impact on the abortion question, and neither did the liberal establishment. 

The idea that she would be "haunted" by it is laughable. More liberal myth-making for their dead-eyed heroes.

She was on the court with Alito and Roberts. She knew exactly what was coming. And her plan was to go die of COVID she caught at a public wedding she officiated for the children of insanely wealthy power players. That's how much women's reproductive rights were worth to that psychopath.

I'm printing this post out and framing it and hanging it next to my multiple degrees so that when people join zoom calls with me they have to see how amazing I am, by way of you and this post.

This is vintage, hot spitting "dylan dylan dylan" fire. I award 5 fire emoji's out of 5. 

[Incredulity 11532]

25 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

She was on the court with Alito and Roberts. She knew exactly what was coming. And her plan was to go die of COVID she caught at a public wedding she officiated for the children of insanely wealthy power players. That's how much women's reproductive rights were worth to that psychopath.

ooooh my.

[wildcat09 29187]

3 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

I believe he means your stupid fucking take of comparing Pete to Synema. But who knows, I'm just over here eating popcorn. 

Well, I did give Pete credit for being smarter than her. He at least understands that in politics you need some people to like you and he understands the value of being an effective communicator.  But are you really insisting that he's committed to a set of values? If so, what values do you think he's committed to? I guess we know he's probably not going to suddenly advocate for the abolition of legalized gay marriage.  But aside from that, what is there that you're confident that he'll unwaveringly support? If he were president, what are you confident that he'd go to the mat to fight for?

I do understand his appeal. It's similar to Obama's: he's well spoken, has all the qualifications, and he's got an unflappable nature in speaking that seems like it should translate to effective politics. During Obama's first campaign, I thought with his rhetorical skill he would be able to actually sell the country on the things he ran on and overcome what I assumed would be pretty ineffectual Republican opposition (because my god they were an absolute fucking disaster in late 2008 and early 2009). I thought if anyone could actually fix shit, it would be him.

How'd all that work out for Obama? Yeah he won a second term because Romney was dumb enough to get caught on tape calling half the country takers and Obama actually hammered him with it, but he wasn't a transformative politician. He didn't change Washington. In many ways, it got much worse under his stewardship. That's because one person can't actually fix Washington, no matter how much we want that to be the case. The problems with our politics are institutional.  That's something Pete was originally right about.

[Incredulity 11532]

3 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

The problems with our politics are institutional.  That's something Pete was originally right about.

honest question.

How do you square that with wanting the government to run healthcare or any other massive expansion of the government?

[mchookem 16094]

2 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

 In many ways, it got much worse under his stewardship. That's because one person can't actually fix Washington, no matter how much we want that to be the case. The problems with our politics are institutional.  That's something Pete was originally right about.

i mean let's be honest...we all know the main reason why things got 'much worse' under Obama...

 

[wildcat09 29187]

15 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

How exactly would you suggest "democrats" fix widespread gerrymandering at local/statewide levels.

There's a simple solution to that one, actually. Add justices to SCOTUS so you've got a majority that will find gerrymandering unconstitutional.  It wouldn't be easy, it'd be a hell of a political fight.  It would require a pretty pointed public campaign against the GOP-controlled SCOTUS, which is not something any Dems who favor triangulation as their political strategy of choice are equipped for.

[wildcat09 29187]

2 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

honest question.

How do you square that with wanting the government to run healthcare or any other massive expansion of the government?

Do you even have any idea what you mean when you say I want the government to run healthcare?  

[mchookem 16094]

funny enough, Pete actually did have a pretty detailed plan to add justices to the Supreme Court. it's one of the reasons i first became interested in him.

[Incredulity 11532]

4 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Do you even have any idea what you mean when you say I want the government to run healthcare?  

What?

Medicare for all.  right?

 

 

Edited February 8, 2023 by Incredulity

[SydneyCarton 47809]

5 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Well, I did give Pete credit for being smarter than her. He at least understands that in politics you need some people to like you and he understands the value of being an effective communicator.  But are you really insisting that he's committed to a set of values? If so, what values do you think he's committed to? I guess we know he's probably not going to suddenly advocate for the abolition of legalized gay marriage.  But aside from that, what is there that you're confident that he'll unwaveringly support? If he were president, what are you confident that he'd go to the mat to fight for?

I do understand his appeal. It's similar to Obama's: he's well spoken, has all the qualifications, and he's got an unflappable nature in speaking that seems like it should translate to effective politics. During Obama's first campaign, I thought with his rhetorical skill he would be able to actually sell the country on the things he ran on and overcome what I assumed would be pretty ineffectual Republican opposition (because my god they were an absolute fucking disaster in late 2008 and early 2009). I thought if anyone could actually fix shit, it would be him.

How'd all that work out for Obama? Yeah he won a second term because Romney was dumb enough to get caught on tape calling half the country takers and Obama actually hammered him with it, but he wasn't a transformative politician. He didn't change Washington. In many ways, it got much worse under his stewardship. That's because one person can't actually fix Washington, no matter how much we want that to be the case. The problems with our politics are institutional.  That's something Pete was originally right about.

What do I think he'd go to the mat for? Whatever was the "right thing" that he thought he would be able to accomplish. By all accounts, from military service, to him as a person, to his time as a mayor, the guy has spoken up, led, and acted with compassion. He made plenty of mistakes, like all people do, and moved on and has continued to, by all accounts, be a good person. The whole notion that you and bad_teammate have that unless they do things exactly as you would or as you want they're bad people and bad politicians is absurd. You'll get no argument with me that the problems with our politics are institutional. That's 100% true, and I generally think we're fucked.

But here is what I know to be true, you'll continue to back Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren types that you think will go to the mat, but guarantee won't be able to get "the job" done because they're unelectable, or incapable of building a consensus if they were elected. How is that fucking heroic, or worthwhile. The right has a guy like that, his name is Trump, and he's a fucking systemic loser. Lionizing your heroes who have no chance in hell of winning, and thereby no chance in hell of getting shit done, is an odd fucking choice for change but an easy one to be able to sit on the sidelines and criticize and lob potshots at those who can get elected to positions of power.

I know this, just because you thought Obama had a chance to make changes and failed is a shitty reason to eschew the concept of a good person who might be able to create consensus or change the consciousness of the American landscape forever and into the future. Just because Obama failed, doesn't mean others will fail. Especially considering I don't think Obama understood the existential threat to democracy at that time. But considering the path you just described of one man who is articulate and likeable having a shot to change minds might be the only shot left to heal huge aspects of this country because of the institutional hurdles of our political system...well, giving up on that is also an odd choice. I guess you're just happier living without hope for a better future. Well, ok, I might be there if I were still single, or even if I were just married. But now I have a 5 year old. And I agonize about our future every day, and every night. And man, I need to believe there is a way out, a path forward, even if it's a fucking cunt hair's chance of being realized. 

[SydneyCarton 47809]

10 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

honest question.

How do you square that with wanting the government to run healthcare or any other massive expansion of the government?

1.) I'll tackle this honestly. Offering healthcare for all, with guaranteed price levels, isn't the same thing as the "government" running it. But see #2.
2.) I don't know, how does America manage to run the the worlds most expensive and complex military and the associated military industrial complex adjacent to it, which is the envy of the world? Because by comparison, healthcare seems easy. A lot of other countries with less money, resources, and options manage to do it without a problem.

One thing I do remember and credit Wildcat with, which has stuck with me, is that the US Military is basically the most successful jobs program in the history of the world. That seems like a government win to me. The New Deal did some pretty amazing shit too.

9 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

There's a simple solution to that one, actually. Add justices to SCOTUS so you've got a majority that will find gerrymandering unconstitutional.  It wouldn't be easy, it'd be a hell of a political fight.  It would require a pretty pointed public campaign against the GOP-controlled SCOTUS, which is not something any Dems who favor triangulation as their political strategy of choice are equipped for.

Oh. Add justices to the supreme court. Oh, that's super easy. So how do you propose that happens in this political environment? Once again, is it snapping your fingers or are you clicking the heels on your ruby slippers three times? This country is fucked from decades of educational degradation, a lack of any hard times or austerity which makes us selfish and lazy, and we elect dipshits. So show me the super easy way we add more justices to the supreme court when we can't even pass wildly popular laws like marihuana legalization, gun reform, women's right to choose, etc. Please, tell us in detail 

[wildcat09 29187]

9 minutes ago, mchookem said:

funny enough, Pete actually did have a pretty detailed plan to add justices to the Supreme Court. it's one of the reasons i first became interested in him.

Yeah. That's something I pointed out as what originally got me cautiously excited about him, and why his abandonment of support for it was part of the reason I don't like him now.

[SydneyCarton 47809]

2 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Yeah. That's something I pointed out as what originally got me cautiously excited about him, and why his abandonment of support for it was part of the reason I don't like him now.

how exactly did he "abandon" it? By not getting elected?

[wildcat09 29187]

19 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

There's a simple solution to that one, actually. Add justices to SCOTUS so you've got a majority that will find gerrymandering unconstitutional.  It wouldn't be easy, it'd be a hell of a political fight.  It would require a pretty pointed public campaign against the GOP-controlled SCOTUS, which is not something any Dems who favor triangulation as their political strategy of choice are equipped for.

 

5 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

Oh. Add justices to the supreme court. Oh, that's super easy. So how do you propose that happens in this political environment? Once again, is it snapping your fingers or are you clicking the heels on your ruby slippers three times? This country is fucked from decades of educational degradation, a lack of any hard times or austerity which makes us selfish and lazy, and we elect dipshits. So show me the super easy way we add more justices to the supreme court when we can't even pass wildly popular laws like marihuana legalization, gun reform, women's right to choose, etc. Please, tell us in detail 

[Incredulity 11532]

1 minute ago, SydneyCarton said:

1.) I'll tackle this honestly. Offering healthcare for all, with guaranteed price levels, isn't the same thing as the "government" running it. But see #2.
2.) I don't know, how does America manage to run the the worlds most expensive and complex military and the associated military industrial complex adjacent to it, which is the envy of the world? Because by comparison, healthcare seems easy. A lot of other countries with less money, resources, and options manage to do it without a problem.

1.) The government setting the price for healthcare is literally running healthcare.  Any business has to make a profit to stay in business.  The government saying XXX medical procedure is worth YYY literally forces providers to adjust the procedures cost or stop offering it.  There is no third option.

2.) SNAFU comes from the military for a reason.  The military is 1/6th of the federal budget.  Its a famously wasteful and inefficient spender of money.  Medicare spending for 65 million people is already 10 % of the federal budget.  There isn't enough money. 

 

I will fully say that the current state of healthcare in the US is completely fucked.  Maybe medicare for all would be great.   I don't think so, but who knows.

[SydneyCarton 47809]

4 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

 

What a horeshit response. The first sentence in your reply is "There's a simple solution." And then you go on to write several sentences to why it's not, actually a simple solution. It's actually currently probably as close to an IMPOSSIBLE solution as there is, hence my comment on not being able to pass legislation that is WIDELY POPULAR ACROSS THE AISLES. Much less something like expansion of the supreme court, which not wildly popular, and hits the little conspiracy theory brain nodules of the morons who think any expansion or reform of government is a fucking plot be the Rothschilds or some shit. 

So you don't get to say "Oh that's a simple fix" when you know it's fucking close to impossible. Or in other words:

[Satchel 6908]

Since the employer provided model has proven to be wholly inadequate, it’s time we tried something else.

[SydneyCarton 47809]

16 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

1.) The government setting the price for healthcare is literally running healthcare.  Any business has to make a profit to stay in business.  The government saying XXX medical procedure is worth YYY literally forces providers to adjust the procedures cost or stop offering it.  There is no third option.

2.) SNAFU comes from the military for a reason.  The military is 1/6th of the federal budget.  Its a famously wasteful and inefficient spender of money.  Medicare spending for 65 million people is already 10 % of the federal budget.  There isn't enough money. 

 

I will fully say that the current state of healthcare in the US is completely fucked.  Maybe medicare for all would be great.   I don't think so, but who knows.

1.) Actually, not every business needs to make a profit to stay in business. In fact, there is a term for that, it's called a Non Profit. And maybe folks shouldn't be profiting off the health and wellbeing of it's citizens? Just a thought. And before you claim anything else, the Red Cross is proof that a "business" can still have bloated AF salaries and still not "make a profit." So no one is saying that doctors should make pennies, and hospitals will be run down shitholes. 

2.) Yeah, the military is wasteful. It's just weird we never hear people bitch and moan about THAT at the same level as they bitch and moan about other facets of "government waste." I wonder why that is? At the end of the day, could it perhaps be that the waste is worth the cost and at the end of the day people are happy to have a badass military? Also, does the military have to make a profit to stay in business?

When you say there isn't enough money, well, we could find more by making rich people pay their fucking taxes, corporations pay their fucking taxes, fix the fucking tax code, and I dont know, actually work on eliminating waste. It's pretty amazing that oil and pharmaceutical companies find ways to keep posting record fucking profits, pay little in taxes, and yet somehow there just "isn't enough money."

Edited February 8, 2023 by SydneyCarton

[wildcat09 29187]

19 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

What a horeshit response. The first sentence in your reply is "There's a simple solution." And then you go on to write several sentences to why it's not, actually a simple solution. It's actually currently probably as close to an IMPOSSIBLE solution as there is, hence my comment on not being able to pass legislation that is WIDELY POPULAR ACROSS THE AISLES. Much less something like expansion of the supreme court, which not wildly popular, and hits the little conspiracy theory brain nodules of the morons who think any expansion or reform of government is a fucking plot be the Rothschilds or some shit. 

So you don't get to say "Oh that's a simple fix" when you know it's fucking close to impossible. Or in other words:

Simple and easy are not the same thing.

[SydneyCarton 47809]

9 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Simple and easy are not the same thing.

oh? Gosh, I can't imagine why your post was so confusing/contradicting:

 

Ok Progressive Anastasis, if it's almost impossible to achieve by no metric is it "simple." Perhaps you meant to say "easy TO UNDERSTAND." But that's not what you said. Dont be an asshole. 
 

Edited February 8, 2023 by SydneyCarton

[bad_teammate 13125]

58 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

How exactly would you suggest "democrats" fix widespread gerrymandering at local/statewide levels, or combat inherent ignorance that leads to voting for Republicans in those states?

Win elections and then aggressively and ruthlessly use the power achieved after winning to get the things the base wants. Isolate and punish people within the party who work against the core values and needs.

What does the Democratic base want?
Promise them those things and viciously work to acquire them.

(W voters online who became Dems when Ugly Donald was nominated: "The Democratic base wants to feel more educated than their Republican neighbors in the suburbs!")

Chuck Schumer: “For every blue-collar Democrat we lose in western Pennsylvania, we will pick up two moderate Republicans in the suburbs in Philadelphia.”

2017. Schumer ran Hillary's campaign that lost ton Donald.

What do the cities want? What do blue collar workers want? What do all those gross, undereducated people who talk gross and don't even have Medium subscriptions want? Bread. Give them bread.

[SydneyCarton 47809]

4 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Win elections and then aggressively and ruthlessly use the power achieved after winning to get the things the base wants. Isolate and punish people within the party who work against the core values and needs.

What does the Democratic base want?
Promise them those things and viciously work to acquire them.

(W voters online who became Dems when Ugly Donald was nominated: "The Democratic base wants to feel more educated than their Republican neighbors in the suburbs!")

Chuck Schumer: “For every blue-collar Democrat we lose in western Pennsylvania, we will pick up two moderate Republicans in the suburbs in Philadelphia.”

2017. Schumer ran Hillary's campaign that lost ton Donald.

What do the cities want? What do blue collar workers want? What do all those gross, undereducated people who talk gross and don't even have Medium subscriptions want? Bread. Give them bread.

Well, Obama fucked up when he had control of all 3 houses and didn't shove a bunch of shit down people's throats. No disagreement there. Now point out to me when the Democrats have had control of all 3 houses since then and failed to enact the shit that people want? I'll wait. 

You haven't actually answered my question on how you plant to fix the widespread ignorance and gerrymandering that prevent democrats from winning many of these elections. Sure, the voting rights act bills were proposed, and then died. But the fact of the matter is that the biggest obstacle to winning elections and holding people accountable and making systemic changes are the exact things I outlined above, that you need to fix, so democrats can win fucking elections and make fucking changes. Because the bills biden has proposed the past 2 years have been BIG FUCKING CHANGES but they don't have the seats or the votes. 

So answer the actual question I posed to you, sir. 

[bad_teammate 13125]

Quote

Well, Obama fucked up when he had control of all 3 houses and didn't shove a bunch of shit down people's throats. No disagreement there. Now point out to me when the Democrats have had control of all 3 houses since then and failed to enact the shit that people want? I'll wait. 

God, that "I'll wait" there at the end is darling.

The Republicans haven't had any kind of supermajority in forever and are successfully forcing their unpopular agenda down our throats. Your retort is that the people are just supposed to continually gift the Dems supermajorities in the hope that maybe they'll try to do something one day? Is that how voting populations work?

 

Quote

You haven't actually answered my question on how you plant to fix the widespread ignorance and gerrymandering that prevent democrats from winning many of these elections.

The only ignorance that needs to be fixed is within the Democratic Party power structure. Gerrymandering is a political issue the Democrats should be working to fix on a federal level and it's not an issue the people give a shit about; that's procedural shit.

That's not what people want. That doesn't get them out of their seats. And if a politician can't get people out of their seats that is HIS fault, not the people's. The Democratic Party's inability to win elections while having a wildly popular platform is an indictment of THEM, not the voters.

- Find out what the people want. (it's not gerrymandering reform, it's not identity politics, it's not unemployment stats, it's not smugness, it's not Twitter owns, it's not TV outrage about some ugly broad in a white fur coat)

- Promise to give the people what they want.

- Openly and viciously fight to get them what they want, screaming bloody murder at everyone (friend or foe) who stands in the way.

And if you have to do procedural shit like SC court stacking or gerrymandering reform or voting procedure reform in the process, you just do that. That nerd shit is not why anyone cares about Dems even though the Dems themselves are soulless nerds.

[Incredulity 11532]

54 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

.) Actually, not every business needs to make a profit to stay in business. In fact, there is a term for that, it's called a Non Profit. And maybe folks shouldn't be profiting off the health and wellbeing of it's citizens? Just a thought. And before you claim anything else, the Red Cross is proof that a "business" can still have bloated AF salaries and still not "make a profit." So no one is saying that doctors should make pennies, and hospitals will be run down shitholes. 

2.) Yeah, the military is wasteful. It's just weird we never hear people bitch and moan about THAT at the same level as they bitch and moan about other facets of "government waste." I wonder why that is? At the end of the day, could it perhaps be that the waste is worth the cost and at the end of the day people are happy to have a badass military? Also, does the military have to make a profit to stay in business?

1.) The tax structure of the business is irrelevant.  Incoming has to at least match outgoing.  If Clinic X does 10 knee surgeries a week for $10,000.00 and the government says they will only pay $5000.00 for a knee surgery there are going to have to be massive changes in what is going on at Clinic X.  Doctor compensation, facilities, procedure.....

2.) Really?, the $50,000 crescent wrench and million dollar toilet anecdotes get a lot of run.

 

Regarding the money.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/18/61percent-of-americans-paid-no-federal-income-taxes-in-2020-tax-policy-center-says.html

 

The top 20% of taxpayers paid 78% of federal income taxes in 2020, according to the Tax Policy Center, up from 68% in 2019. The top 1% of taxpayers paid 28% of taxes in 2020, up from 25% in 2019.

 

Any corporation that has a zero percent income tax rate is either investing heavily in capex or R&D and taking those deductions in the tax code, or deducting previous years loses.  There is no magic loophole where corporations don't pay taxes. 

You specifically called out O&G companies :

Exxon annual income taxes for 2022 were $20.176B

Chevron annual income taxes for 2022 were $14.066B

 

 

 

[HamsterHookah 112]

1 hour ago, SydneyCarton said:

When you say there isn't enough money, well, we could find more by making rich people pay their fucking taxes, corporations pay their fucking taxes, fix the fucking tax code, and I dont know, actually work on eliminating waste. It's pretty amazing that oil and pharmaceutical companies find ways to keep posting record fucking profits, pay little in taxes, and yet somehow there just "isn't enough money."

• The Texas oil and natural gas industry paid $24.7 billion in state and local taxes and state royalties in Fiscal Year 2022, shattering the previous record of just more than $16 billion paid in 2019 by 54%.
• That $24.7 billion translates to roughly $67 million every day that funds the state’s public schools, universities, roads, first responders and other services.
• Permian Basin schools and counties benefited significantly from the revenues paid by the state’s oil and gas industry, with counties receiving $320.4 million in property taxes and school districts receiving $867.2 million. Reeves County led the state with $44.9 million, 58.4% of its tax base. Midland County was second with $31.9 million, 30.3% of its tax base. Midland Independent School District led the state with $113.3 million, 32.2% of its tax base, followed by Pecos-Barstow-Toyah with $108.8 million, 65.1% of its tax base. Grady ISD had the highest percentage of its tax base from oil and gas property taxes at 92.4%, receiving $36.7 million.
• Oil and natural gas production taxes exceeded $10 billion for the first time in Texas history, surging by $5.8 billion or 116% while royalties to state funds rose by $2.2 billion or 102%.
• In FY 2022, the oil and gas industry employed 443,000 Texans earning an average of $115,300 each. For every direct oil and gas job, another 2.2 indirect jobs are created per direct employee. In total, 1.4 million Texans’ jobs were ultimately derived from the state’s oil and gas industry.

[Pig Bellmont 8679]

You’re not seriously arguing companies are currently paying a fair share, right?

[SydneyCarton 47809]

2 hours ago, bad_teammate said:

God, that "I'll wait" there at the end is darling.

The Republicans haven't had any kind of supermajority in forever and are successfully forcing their unpopular agenda down our throats. Your retort is that the people are just supposed to continually gift the Dems supermajorities in the hope that maybe they'll try to do something one day? Is that how voting populations work?

 

Yes. They’re forcing it down our throat at a state level, or at the judicial level. And you’re asking why we can’t fix it at the federal level…without a supermajority. So uh, yeah, in todays age that is how voting populations work. 
 

or you can tout all the democratic success Im places like cali, New York, etc. But you don’t have any interest in doing that. Frankly neither do I because that doesn’t help me. But I’m not disingenuous about it. That’s some bait and switch bullshit. 
 

Quote

The only ignorance that needs to be fixed is within the Democratic Party power structure. Gerrymandering is a political issue the Democrats should be working to fix on a federal level and it's not an issue the people give a shit about; that's procedural shit.

That's not what people want. That doesn't get them out of their seats. And if a politician can't get people out of their seats that is HIS fault, not the people's. The Democratic Party's inability to win elections while having a wildly popular platform is an indictment of THEM, not the voters.

- Find out what the people want. (it's not gerrymandering reform, it's not identity politics, it's not unemployment stats, it's not smugness, it's not Twitter owns, it's not TV outrage about some ugly broad in a white fur coat)

- Promise to give the people what they want.

- Openly and viciously fight to get them what they want, screaming bloody murder at everyone (friend or foe) who stands in the way.

And if you have to do procedural shit like SC court stacking or gerrymandering reform or voting procedure reform in the process, you just do that. That nerd shit is not why anyone cares about Dems even though the Dems themselves are soulless nerds.

You’re a smart person, but this is dumb or not a good faith argument. Gerrymandering doesn’t get folks out of their seat, but solving it is how democrats win elections with a wildly popular platform. And republicans pushing an agenda without one. Full stop. How the fuck is anyone stacking a court or “doing nerd procedural shit” without the votes they can’t get because of gerrymandering? Fucking he’ll dude.

Edited February 9, 2023 by SydneyCarton