coffee / coffee makers

[Liquor and Poker 3659]

On 1/20/2023 at 7:07 PM, dcbc said:

Does it have an auto frother on the wand or something?  Mine just has the wand (though I think I could add an auto frother).  I've had no trouble getting milk plenty hot with it.

 

Also, doesn't Saeco own Gaggia?

just the metal wand.  it's apparently a common complaint that I totally missed before buying.

Delonghi, Gaggia and Saeco are all past acquistions of Philips, and there's a lot of part interchangeability, but they're supposedly still differences in "philosophy."  Italians.

 

I think the Gaggia is a little more stripped down and single-task than the Saeco Vienna I had, and more robust than the Clasico.

Edited January 23, 2023 by Liquor and Poker

[dcbc 14465]

19 hours ago, Liquor and Poker said:

just the metal wand.  it's apparently a common complaint that I totally missed before buying.

Delonghi, Gaggia and Saeco are all past acquistions of Philips, and there's a lot of part interchangeability, but they're supposedly still differences in "philosophy."  Italians.

 

I think the Gaggia is a little more stripped down and single-task than the Saeco Vienna I had, and more robust than the Clasico.

I'm usually not frothing more than one serving of milk or two at a time and never have had an issue with having to let my Brera reheat.  I've had it for going on 10 years now. Only issue I had was having to get the grinder fixed under warranty and learning to stay away from dark roast.

[BearMace 2193]

On 1/19/2023 at 4:54 PM, Chopper said:

I just started following coffeegeek on Post and they've been talking about their new article on the aeropress and the results of some time-consuming and detailed experimentation they've been doing. Just fyi for anyone interested.

AeroPress Inverted Brew Method
A brewing method developed over 15 years to mimic the cup output of a Clover Coffee Maker

You might find this Inverted AeroPress How To a bit different from most others online. That’s because our goal here is to replicate the best brews produced by a $10,000 (in 2006) Clover coffee maker (NY Times article, we’re including a gift link so you can read it for free). I’ll explain more below.

For this How To, we’re using the following coffee and equipment:

You might find this Inverted AeroPress How To a bit different from most others online. That’s because our goal here is to replicate the best brews produced by a $10,000 (in 2006) Clover coffee maker (NY Times article, we’re including a gift link so you can read it for free). I’ll explain more below.

For this How To, we’re using the following coffee and equipment:

• Coffee Used: Praga Anaerobic Natural Colombian from our favourite coffee supplier, Social Coffee Co., based out of Richmond Hill, Ontario.
• Filter Used: We’re using the Able Brewing DISK Fine in our demonstration. A permanent metal filter is a requirement to get the most out of this brewing method (The new AeroPress metal filter will do nicely too).
• Coffee Grinder: For this demonstration, we’re using the Baratza Virtuoso+ Grinder (it’s recent First Look was published on CoffeeGeek), though any good quality grinder from $99 up will do, or a hand cranked grinder.
• Kettle: Again, any water kettle will do, even a $15 stovetop kettle. We’re using the O-Kettle (here’s our First Look) with temperatures set to 208F.
• Scale Used: We’re using a trusty, beat up, 15 year old $12 .1 gram scale in this demonstration. Any basic kitchen scale will do.
• The AeroPress: You can do this tutorial with a standard AeroPress ($35), or an AeroPress Go ($40), keeping in mind the Go version brews slightly less coffee.

full article https://www.coffeegeek.com/guides/aeropress-inverted-brew-method-how-to/

 

Dude this is the way. I went through way to long of stretch of being lazy and just using the Nespresso at home. Finally stopped being lazy but realized that my palette just doesn't care for Chemex anymore. The paper filter just pulls too much out. Got an Aeropress and came across this post. Been making some incredible coffee. I think the part about not using too dark of roast with this method is valid. Too heavy of roast won't do this justice, lighter roasts are still expressive/nuanced. 

Also, I just had my first clumsy inverted aeropress disaster. I didn't scald my dick of but boy did I make a mess. Guess that's what I get for making coffee after 9:00pm. Totally worth it though. 

[UpperWestside 6159]

I have three coffee makers, but I do not use them a great deal because I work in a restaurant and I wind up using the Nespresso machine to get coffee every morning. I have one that does K Cups and cappuccinos, another for espressos only and then another Delonghi one I was given for helping someone move. It was unused and when I looked it up would’ve cost at least 700 or so to buy. It makes great espressos and full cups as well.

I have a grinder and French press as well because might as well have one. If the apocalypse comes I’ll have enough coffee to survive it! I brought back a few Tahitian coffee brands that I want to grind up and try from my trip there. Some really good coffee down there. I am up for trying more refined methods for making coffee because it’s cool to try new things and see how it tastes. This thread is perfect for learning more about how y’all partake in a cup of joe.
 

One thing I do enjoy putting in coffee is heavy cream. Such a good taste so long as you don’t go overboard with it. It’s hard to get that from coffee shops though, but we have a ton of it at work which is nice because we make egg creams with it.

[veritas aequitas 442]

I used to have a variety of electric gizmo coffee makers that I have now gotten rid of and only have 4 manual ones that I prefer and can make just about anything I want.

[Celery Man 20929]

On 1/19/2023 at 3:58 PM, jimmyjazz said:

I have most of the brewing accoutrement, but honestly, we end up using the Mr. Coffee most days, since my wife bought it and wants fresh coffee when our alarm goes off.  It's OK.

team jimmy's wife. I should do some of this experimentation with my second cup but there is no taste improvement for the first cup that overcomes the hurdle of needing that first cup before I can do anything else at all.

 

40 minutes ago, veritas aequitas said:

I used to have a variety of electric gizmo coffee makers that I have now gotten rid of and only have 4 manual ones that I prefer and can make just about anything I want.

 

 

 

case in point, had one of these fuckers in our air bnb in La Spezia and first thing in the morning it may as well have been the riemann hypothesis

[Rimbo 25908]

Seems to be a lot of coffee threads, but this one has the most attention.

I use a French press occasionally (stainless steel; glass ones end up breaking under my hands), but ever since I got a Breville Bambino it's been Americanos every day, with occasional cappuccinos and espressos. It's so much easier to clean, and I love the flavor and speed of brewing.

But I agree with someone above who said the grinder is everything. Fresh ground beans in a good conical burr grinder with filtered water is THE biggest difference between bad coffee and good coffee.

Still using an old Capresso Infinity I've had for nine years for that. When it dies, apparently the Baratza Encore is the new hotness.

Edited January 28 by Rimbo

[tx 3 putt 76863]

Grinder recs ?

[Your Mom 4805]

1 hour ago, tx 3 putt said:

Grinder recs ?

I thought we had another thread for dating apps.  But I’d say a nice smile in your profile pic is key. Good luck and be safe. 

[Chopper 17230]

11 hours ago, tx 3 putt said:

Grinder recs ?

Depends on what you're intended usage is and budget. I'd suggest browsing the reviews at https://www.coffeegeek.com/

[jimmyjazz 45880]

12 hours ago, tx 3 putt said:

Grinder recs ?

Stay away from Gevi.  Our has a child lockout that is really difficult to disable.  (Cue child jokes.)

[sith_horn 2379]

15 hours ago, tx 3 putt said:

Grinder recs ?

I've had this one since not sure exactly ... circa 2005-2007. The grind collection cup broke about 10 years ago. I replaced it with one of those wide, fat coffee mugs sometimes used to serve stew. Works great. In fact, I like using the mug better than the original grinder cup.

What I like about it is it's robust, durable and the grind is consistent, adjusted by a mechanical dial. Cons would be, it's large, definitely not quiet (not a problem for me, but might be for some. It isn't obnoxious like a blender though) and certainly isn't cheap. Wasn't when I bought it either, but I think inflation has added another $100 since I got mine.

KitchenAid KCG0702CS Burr Coffee Grinder, Contour Silver

 

[Rimbo 25908]

18 hours ago, Rimbo said:

apparently the Baratza Encore is the new hotness

 

17 hours ago, tx 3 putt said:

Grinder recs ?

See above.

Wirecutter adores it:

• top 4 grinders for 2024
• why we love the Baratza Encore

The company that makes it is really big on making sure repair parts are available for it and encourage owners to repair them if they ever break.

[Your Mom 4805]

I have a Barazta Encore.   It works good, never had a problem, been using it for 5 years or so.  I do pour over at home so i never really change the grind size.  I can’t remember why I chose it but I tend to research things a lot before I buy.   Before this I’ve only had a Porlex hand grinder so I can’t really compare the Encore to anything else.  Still use the Porlex for camping trips. 

[wd40 1976]

+1 on the Encore.  I use a french press (like the sst one above) and my wife uses an aero press, so the grind adjustment gets a fair amount of use.  I fucked up and let it overfill once.  managed to clear it myself without much trouble.  still works great, two years in.

[alphahydro 334]

there are different levels of insanity when it comes to grinders, imo.  I think it's more important to get the right type of grinder than the right brand of grinder.  

you can figure out what type of grinder you need with two questions, imo.

1. First question is: do you want to grind fine enough to make espresso - if yes, you'll need a more expensive grinder with more power.  If no, you can spend less.
2. Second question is: do you want to grind fancy, lightly roasted beans - if yes, you'll want a grinder that will take a flat burr (imo).  If not, you can save $$ on a grinder that uses a conical burr. 

(If you want to make light roasted espresso, you'll need a powerful grinder that takes flat burrs, and that's where it can get expensive.) 

bottom line:  if you get the right type of grinder for you, I wouldn't stress about the grinder make and model too much. 

IMO, the most important aspects of a good cup of coffee are:

1. get beans you like - this is largely a matter of personal preference. might be stuff at the grocery store. might be shipped from a specialty roaster overseas.
2. use the beans when they are ready - you can get the best beans in the world, but your coffee will taste like ass if you grind too soon or too late after the roast.  it's like wine or fruit; you gotta consume at the right time.  rule of thumb, imo -the beans should smell really good to you right before you drop them in the grinder. 
3. imo, # 3 is actually brew method and recipe.  I strongly recommend to everyone that they try the new TETSU RECIPE BELOW.  It's the best of pourover + the best of French press.  Since trying it, I don't use my pour over or French press gear anymore.  

If you don't have these 3 lined up, it doesn't matter what kind of grinder you have or how perfect your pour over technique is, imo.  I know 1 &2 sound obvious, but a lot of people neglect 1 and 2.  IMO, if you nail 1, 2, and 3, you'll realize the grinder isn't as important as YouTubers who hype up grinders say they are--as long as the type of grinder you have is right for you. 

FWIW, I have an Ode grinder (with SSP brew burrs) and a Lagom p100 grinder.  The Lagom costs 10x as much as the Ode.  And yes, I can tell a difference with pour over, but it's just a difference, not better or worse.  In fact, most of the time, I prefer the Ode for pour over, because of the way those burrs work + my personal preferences.  (the lagom is mainly for espresso) 

A big part of that is the recipe below -which is a must try if you use a French press / v60/ chemex.  I think it's just better than the "older" technologies out there. 

THIS IS MY BS PERSONAL THEORY -

people discovered recently with espresso that the second half of the pull needs to be extracted more carefully than the first half.  once you have extracted the first half, the second half of the brew is where the shitty/off/bitter flavor compounds come out if you don't get it just right.  different grinders and burrs create different distributions of particle size at different target grind sizes, so different grinders/ burrs will result in different water flows over the same amount of ground coffee.  The different flow of water is especially relevant in the second half of the brew, where you need to get the extraction just right or else you get off flavors.  With newer espresso machines, you can reduce the water pressure during the second half of the shot, extracting more gently in the "dangerous" part of the pull where you can get bad results. 

This guy above realized you can do something similar with pour over by integrating some percolation (pour over) and some immersion (French press) + reducing the water temp in the second half of the brew. 

My random bs theory is that extracting the second half of the brew more gently (by reducing water flow / temp) takes pressure of the grinder - because the particle distribution isn't as important when you are more gentle in the second half of the brew - you don't need to control the water flow as carefully at lower temps. 

that has definitely been my experience.  with standard pour over recipes, I noticed a huge difference between my grinders and grind sizes.  with tetsu's new recipe:

a) coffee is better

b) grind size and grinder/burr matter less

 

[alphahydro 334]

FWIW, before discovering that TETSU recipe, I used to stress over pour ratios and grind size.

I don't adjust grind size anymore.

I start with the Ode at my standard grind setting, the hario switch (like $30 on amazon) and Tetsu's recipe.  If I want to tweak the recipe to get more or less acidity, I just adjust the starting temp up or down.  that's it.  And it's better than what I can get by wasting a bunch of coffee dialing in a pour over. 

I brew a wide variety of coffee, from super light nordic roasts I get shipped to medium roasted stuff I buy locally.

for medium roasts, I find the ode and the hario switch are best.  For super light roasts, I also have a next level pulsar, which is a slightly different version of the hario switch Tetsu used in the video above

https://nextlevelbrewer.com/shop/nextlevel-pulsar-brewer/

and it brews a little differently.  but honestly, it's only better, imo, for extreme coffees. 

I'm insane, and I also have a meticulous espresso machine on order, and I'll prolly mess around with some of the pourover 2.0 type recipes, but I think if you get a decent grinder and use Tetsu's recipe, you will be set for anything other than the most extreme roasts. 

[dcbc 14465]

Don't take this the wrong way.  I do find it pretty fascinating and read every word of these posts.  But in the morning, give me that drug I love to chug.  I'm not prepared for that level of thought early in the a.m.

[Chopper 17230]

1 hour ago, dcbc said:

Don't take this the wrong way.  I do find it pretty fascinating and read every word of these posts.  But in the morning, give me that drug I love to chug.  I'm not prepared for that level of thought early in the a.m.

Yeah that machine on indiegogo looks extremely cool and beautiful but it's missing a couple features I'd ideally want, although it's not necessarily a deal-killer, should I be in the market down the line. But I definitely don't want to be doing things with coffee at 7am that some chemist would get really excited about, and I'm also skeptical about a software algorithm taking charge of my espresso machine.

Almost 7 years ago I bought a fast-grinding, flat burr grinder with high accuracy burrs, micro-adjustments for the rare instance I need it, along with a powerful dual broiler espresso machine with an integrated shot timer. I barely scratch the surface of the capabilities of my set-up but it's powerful enough to be incredibly consistent with a minimum of fuss. Also besides being very forgiving, the learning curve was really low so getting my wife proficient on it (talked her into a manual set-up from our previous super automatic) was a breeze for both of us. 

 

[dcbc 14465]

3 minutes ago, Chopper said:

Yeah that machine on indiegogo looks extremely cool and beautiful but it's missing a couple features I'd ideally want, although it's not necessarily a deal-killer, should I be in the market down the line. But I definitely don't want to be doing things with coffee at 7am that some chemist would get really excited about, and I'm also skeptical about a software algorithm taking charge of my espresso machine.

Almost 7 years ago I bought a fast-grinding, flat burr grinder with high accuracy burrs, micro-adjustments for the rare instance I need it, along with a powerful dual broiler espresso machine with an integrated shot timer. I barely scratch the surface of the capabilities of my set-up but it's powerful enough to be incredibly consistent with a minimum of fuss. Also besides being very forgiving, the learning curve was really low so getting my wife proficient on it (talked her into a manual set-up from our previous super automatic) was a breeze for both of us. 

 

Manual or semi-auto?

 

I played with a semi auto and separate burr grinder for several years before going to super auto route.  Could I pull better shots on the semi auto?  For sure, when all the stars aligned.  Does the Super Auto give me consistently good shot with pretty minimal effort.  Absolutely.  In a perfect world, with infinite counter space, I'd have both.  

[Rimbo 25908]

15 hours ago, alphahydro said:

there are different levels of insanity when it comes to grinders, imo.  I think it's more important to get the right type of grinder than the right brand of grinder.  

you can figure out what type of grinder you need with two questions, imo.

1. First question is: do you want to grind fine enough to make espresso - if yes, you'll need a more expensive grinder with more power.  If no, you can spend less.
2. Second question is: do you want to grind fancy, lightly roasted beans - if yes, you'll want a grinder that will take a flat burr (imo).  If not, you can save $$ on a grinder that uses a conical burr. 

(If you want to make light roasted espresso, you'll need a powerful grinder that takes flat burrs, and that's where it can get expensive.) 

bottom line:  if you get the right type of grinder for you, I wouldn't stress about the grinder make and model too much. 

IMO, the most important aspects of a good cup of coffee are:

1. get beans you like - this is largely a matter of personal preference. might be stuff at the grocery store. might be shipped from a specialty roaster overseas.
2. use the beans when they are ready - you can get the best beans in the world, but your coffee will taste like ass if you grind too soon or too late after the roast.  it's like wine or fruit; you gotta consume at the right time.  rule of thumb, imo -the beans should smell really good to you right before you drop them in the grinder. 
3. imo, # 3 is actually brew method and recipe.  I strongly recommend to everyone that they try the new TETSU RECIPE BELOW.  It's the best of pourover + the best of French press.  Since trying it, I don't use my pour over or French press gear anymore.  

If you don't have these 3 lined up, it doesn't matter what kind of grinder you have or how perfect your pour over technique is, imo.  I know 1 &2 sound obvious, but a lot of people neglect 1 and 2.  IMO, if you nail 1, 2, and 3, you'll realize the grinder isn't as important as YouTubers who hype up grinders say they are--as long as the type of grinder you have is right for you. 

FWIW, I have an Ode grinder (with SSP brew burrs) and a Lagom p100 grinder.  The Lagom costs 10x as much as the Ode.  And yes, I can tell a difference with pour over, but it's just a difference, not better or worse.  In fact, most of the time, I prefer the Ode for pour over, because of the way those burrs work + my personal preferences.  (the lagom is mainly for espresso) 

A big part of that is the recipe below -which is a must try if you use a French press / v60/ chemex.  I think it's just better than the "older" technologies out there. 

THIS IS MY BS PERSONAL THEORY -

people discovered recently with espresso that the second half of the pull needs to be extracted more carefully than the first half.  once you have extracted the first half, the second half of the brew is where the shitty/off/bitter flavor compounds come out if you don't get it just right.  different grinders and burrs create different distributions of particle size at different target grind sizes, so different grinders/ burrs will result in different water flows over the same amount of ground coffee.  The different flow of water is especially relevant in the second half of the brew, where you need to get the extraction just right or else you get off flavors.  With newer espresso machines, you can reduce the water pressure during the second half of the shot, extracting more gently in the "dangerous" part of the pull where you can get bad results. 

This guy above realized you can do something similar with pour over by integrating some percolation (pour over) and some immersion (French press) + reducing the water temp in the second half of the brew. 

My random bs theory is that extracting the second half of the brew more gently (by reducing water flow / temp) takes pressure of the grinder - because the particle distribution isn't as important when you are more gentle in the second half of the brew - you don't need to control the water flow as carefully at lower temps. 

that has definitely been my experience.  with standard pour over recipes, I noticed a huge difference between my grinders and grind sizes.  with tetsu's new recipe:

a) coffee is better

b) grind size and grinder/burr matter less

 

I agree with most of this, except the stuff about burr type.

Get conical burrs.

The reason is that they are more consistent and heat the beans less.

I've done everything from coarse grinds to espresso grinds in mine. It don't matter which; use conical.

[alphahydro 334]

20 minutes ago, Rimbo said:

I agree with most of this, except the stuff about burr type.

Get conical burrs.

The reason is that they are more consistent and heat the beans less.

I've done everything from coarse grinds to espresso grinds in mine. It don't matter which; use conical.

i think for most people a grinder that takes conical burrs is more than fine. 

if you prefer a chocolate-y coffee, you should imo def get conical burrs and save yourself money and heartache

but if you get insane and you start importing nordic roast washed geisha beans and you want your coffee to have the body of tea, with gentle acidity, you really want flat burrs, imo. 

 

in my mind, imagine your grinder smashed up rocks to a certain size.  and then you put those rocks in a sieve and ran water over it.  a conical burr tends to create more "coffee" dust and sand, which fill up the gaps between the larger rocks/coffee bits.  if you have enough dust and sand, you get the same basic water flow when you run water over teh rocks, regardless of your "grinder" setting.  If the rocks are golf ball size or baseball size, the water flow is about the same if you have enough sand in there.   

 

conical burrs tend to create more "sand," and flat burr grinders tend to produce less "sand."  with less sand, the size of the "rocks" has a larger impact on the water flow, and you can get (a) more control over the water flow and (b) the ability to create faster water flows.   But both of these also make the whole thing more frustrating, because it is easier to mess up. 

it feels like you get more consistent results with a conical burr grinder, because you get the same basic slow flow no matter what you do.   and for a lot of coffee, this is what you want anyway.  slow flow tends to bring out the chocolatey/toffee/carmel sweetness that is created by the maillard reaction that occurs during roasting.  and for most beans, you want that sweetness to cover up the fact that the beans aren't that good otehrwise.   it's like dousing cheap sushi in soy sauce, or oaking cheap wine grapes for a long time. 

but if you have great beans, roasted really well, you want a faster flow and more control over teh flow, so you can extract the coffee in a way that doesn't mask the acidic notes with the toffee-sweetness.

i recently brewed some washed geisha from leaves roaster in tokyo, and i know this sounds nuts, but the beans smelled like a fukcing field of flowers and the coffee didn't taste like coffee.  it was like a honey-lemon tea with almost zero notes of what we think of as "coffee" flavor.  hard to brew something like that with conical burrs, because they create so many fines, it slows the brew and masks the acidity with that carmel/toffee sweetness. 

 

anyway, yeah, for most people, just get a conical burr grinder.   what i like about that technique in the youtube is it takes some pressure of having the perfect grind setting. 

 

[jimmyjazz 45880]

Dang, this guy has typed more about coffee since Friday than I've thought about coffee my entire life.

[dcbc 14465]

2 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Dang, this guy has typed more about coffee since Friday than I've thought about coffee my entire life.

I've had three cups since I started reading these posts.

[dcbc 14465]

[Rimbo 25908]

1 hour ago, alphahydro said:

conical burrs tend to create more "sand," and flat burr grinders tend to produce less "sand."

See, my research (and experience) was the opposite. Flat burr grinders produced more "sand."

But maybe that's because mine was cheap.

Flat burr grinders also generate more heat, and have much more retention of old grounds.

Edited January 29 by Rimbo

[Chopper 17230]

1 hour ago, dcbc said:

Manual or semi-auto?

 

I played with a semi auto and separate burr grinder for several years before going to super auto route.  Could I pull better shots on the semi auto?  For sure, when all the stars aligned.  Does the Super Auto give me consistently good shot with pretty minimal effort.  Absolutely.  In a perfect world, with infinite counter space, I'd have both.  

Semi-auto. I spent an absurd $ amount on it -- though it's what I needed to make the process foolproof and morning friendly. It also need to have in-line water because of our then-floor plan.

We've been using a Miele super-automatic that's built into the kitchen cabinets for the past 6 weeks while on vacation and I don't think I could handle its disappointing brew full-time.

[Chewbacca 7766]

41 minutes ago, Chopper said:

We've been using a Miele super-automatic that's built into the kitchen cabinets for the past 6 weeks while on vacation 

This is how you humblebrag, folks.  

[CurlyDumps 4466]

Last March I upgraded from a cheap blade grinder to this OXO grinder.  It's served me well. I immediately noticed a difference. I've been a coffee snob/French Press guy for almost 15 years now, but had no idea grinders made such a difference. I started doing some research because all my coffee started tasting like shit to me.

That Aeropress looks interesting. I'm curious about improving my pour over game. I've had a Chemex for years as a French Press backup. I bought a Kalita Wave 185 last March but haven't liked the results. The coffee comes out kinda flat and weak.  Kinda sucks that I spent $40-50 on a piece of metal that makes coffee that tastes worse than a Starbucks pour over.

[alphahydro 334]

i never gave a shit about coffee until i was in colombia visiting family.  did a coffee farm tour and the guy made some coffee for me that blew my mind and then i fell down the rabbit hole.  

[Rimbo 25908]

18 minutes ago, CurlyDumps said:

Last March I upgraded from a cheap blade grinder to this OXO grinder.  It's served me well. I immediately noticed a difference. I've been a coffee snob/French Press guy for almost 15 years now, but had no idea grinders made such a difference. I started doing some research because all my coffee started tasting like shit to me.

That Aeropress looks interesting. I'm curious about improving my pour over game. I've had a Chemex for years as a French Press backup. I bought a Kalita Wave 185 last March but haven't liked the results. The coffee comes out kinda flat and weak.  Kinda sucks that I spent $40-50 on a piece of metal that makes coffee that tastes worse than a Starbucks pour over.

That grinder, the OXO, is apparently the one people recommend as a low cost alternative now, supplanting the Capresso Infinity I bought (which is now also more expensive).

And yes. There's nothing that'll improve the quality of your coffee more than a good grinder. I swap out beans all the time; I've done everything from espresso to French press to Turkish style fine grounds directly in the cup. The grinder is the most important piece of equipment.

[Chopper 17230]

24 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:

This is how you humblebrag, folks.  

The thought of a back-to-back years of subzero N Colorado freezes had me on the run. Plus it's been a really challenging year.

The thing about super autos is the small-ish water tank, drip tray and grounds container. Plus the challenge of cleaning the grinder. Coffee at the touch of a button is great but they're probably more work than a semi-auto on a weekly basis.

[tx 3 putt 76863]

4 hours ago, alphahydro said:

i never gave a shit about coffee until i was in colombia visiting family.  did a coffee farm tour and the guy made some coffee for me that blew my mind and then i fell down the rabbit hole.  

 

they gave you cocaine, just a fyi 

[52-80 19142]

15 hours ago, Rimbo said:

See, my research (and experience) was the opposite. Flat burr grinders produced more "sand."

But maybe that's because mine was cheap.

Flat burr grinders also generate more heat, and have much more retention of old grounds.

flat generally create more uniform grinds. same particle size means same flavor extracion... which gives more consistency in flavor of the coffee... which whether is good or bad depends on what youre looking for.

(my pet peeve is the comical analogies used to describe the grinds, "mud" "sand" "boulders" "fines")

[tx 3 putt 76863]

Next question ….

do you just grind what you need or can i ground the whole bag and store properly ?

[Dutch 4465]

15 minutes ago, tx 3 putt said:

Next question ….

do you just grind what you need or can i ground the whole bag and store properly ?

Grind what you need when you need it. Grinding coffee begins the process of it going stale, no matter how air-tight you store it, so you’ll get better cups if grind right before brewing. 

That said, if you grind an entire 12oz bag that will get brewed within a week, you may not notice much difference from the first cup to the last. A 2# bag from Costco, though, I’d imagine you would.

[dcbc 14465]

12 hours ago, Chopper said:

[T]hey're probably more work than a semi-auto on a weekly basis.

 

With normal use, our super-auto requires a weekly removal of the brew group for a rinse and wipe down with a few wet paper towels.  Descaling once every few months.  I'm overdue for a grinder cleaning, but it's nowhere near the amount of work and cleaning that one brew session was on my old semi-auto.  But the point should be well-taken by  those shopping for these that super-autos do require periodic cleaning and maintenance.

[52-80 19142]

57 minutes ago, tx 3 putt said:

Next question ….

do you just grind what you need or can i ground the whole bag and store properly ?

1. portion the beans into each serving

2. store it in the freezer

3. take them out as needed

when you crush the beans the CO2 and gases release that much more rapidly.  it matters less for drip/perc brewing, but it absolutely essentially for espresso

[Da Fino 2772]

17 hours ago, Chopper said:

Semi-auto. I spent an absurd $ amount on it -- though it's what I needed to make the process foolproof and morning friendly. It also need to have in-line water because of our then-floor plan.

We've been using a Miele super-automatic that's built into the kitchen cabinets for the past 6 weeks while on vacation and I don't think I could handle its disappointing brew full-time.

I am back to using an electric kettle and french press after using a Miele super-automatic for a little over a year. Moka pot on the weekends. The Miele is incredibly convenient and programable, but I missed having thick, strong coffee. Electric kettle on a schedule makes it very easy to have a great cup in short order. However, the Miele is great when you have guests staying in the house. I guess pour-over will be my next obsession when this runs its course. What are you making in the Miele?

[alphahydro 334]

2 hours ago, 52-80 said:

flat generally create more uniform grinds. same particle size means same flavor extracion... which gives more consistency in flavor of the coffee... which whether is good or bad depends on what youre looking for.

(my pet peeve is the comical analogies used to describe the grinds, "mud" "sand" "boulders" "fines")

i don't get your pet peeve.  if the grinds are not uniform, there are some that are smaller and some that are larger.  it's common to use rocks as an analogy when describing this phenomenon, because we are all more familiar with rocks than with coffee particles.  it's just an easy way to get someone who has never given much thought to coffee grinding to visualize what "more uniform grinds" mean

people try to make insane, unfounded claims about the impact of the particle distribution (and i owuld understand if htat was your pet peeve), and it's not right to say that every conical burr set has one type of distribution and every flat burr has another, but most of the conical burr electric grinders people on here are considering are cheaper, aren't designed or constructed to high tolerances, and are designed to work for espresso and filter particle sizes. all of that that leads to a certain type of particle distribution which is not uniform, but my point is - IMO you shouldn't worry about it if you are asking on a sports forum.  just get the cheap conical grinder, imo.   focus on finding good beans, grinding them at the right time, and a good recipe.  if you discover later that you are insane (or your coffee is laced with cocaine), then you can spend more $$ on a fancy grinder later. 

there is a lot of hype and pressure to get a better grinder, like it's gonna make your coffee better but imo most people just need to focus on good beans and good recipe. 

[52-80 19142]

4 minutes ago, alphahydro said:

i don't get your pet peeve.  if the grinds are not uniform, there are some that are smaller and some that are larger.  it's common to use rocks as an analogy when describing this phenomenon, because we are all more familiar with rocks than with coffee particles.  it's just an easy way to get someone who has never given much thought to coffee grinding to visualize what "more uniform grinds" mean

 

What if I told you there are 2 terms that everyone is even more familiar with:  "smaller" and "larger". 

Grinder A creates a uniform grind.  Grinder B creates a mixed grind with both larger and smaller particles.

[alphahydro 334]

2 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

What if I told you there are 2 terms that everyone is even more familiar with:  "smaller" and "larger". 

Grinder A creates a uniform grind.  Grinder B creates a mixed grind with both larger and smaller particles.

what if i told you i used the word visualize?  still don't get your pet peeve, but whatever.  cheers

[Chopper 17230]

37 minutes ago, Da Fino said:

However, the Miele is great when you have guests staying in the house. I guess pour-over will be my next obsession when this runs its course. What are you making in the Miele?

Oh yeah I've forgotten the part about guests. You're correct that's a strong and overlooked argument in favor of a super auto! All of a sudden I have to turn into a barista and remember how actual professionals make an espresso drink. Which can be difficult at home because I typically just make myself a capp light on the amount of milk. With the miele I've gone with the lungo for KISS principles.

 

[alphahydro 334]

i htink the interesting thing about coffee and why i went down the rabbit hole, is, (this is the way i think about it) during covid a bunch of coffee nerds sat around with nothing better to do than make tons of coffee and run a bunch of experiments and blog about it and chat about it on discord or whatever.  so there is this weird fledgling coffee science, and really bright people starting to mess around with different/ better ways to make coffee.  some of these guys are literally astrophysicists, 

at the same time, there is a lot of bs out there, and a lot of opportunists who hype grinders on youtube.  

[Rimbo 25908]

3 hours ago, tx 3 putt said:

Next question ….

do you just grind what you need or can i ground the whole bag and store properly ?

 

Grind only what you need at the moment you need it.

 

3 hours ago, 52-80 said:

flat generally create more uniform grinds. same particle size means same flavor extracion... which gives more consistency in flavor of the coffee... which whether is good or bad depends on what youre looking for.

(my pet peeve is the comical analogies used to describe the grinds, "mud" "sand" "boulders" "fines")

 

So, this is true in general, but a cheap flat burr is going to have more variation than a well-made conical burr. It's those manufacturing tolerances that matter, and there are fewer variables to account for with flat burrs than conical.

I think my subconscious is trying to convince me to get a new grinder.

[Rimbo 25908]

14 minutes ago, alphahydro said:

i htink the interesting thing about coffee and why i went down the rabbit hole, is, (this is the way i think about it) during covid a bunch of coffee nerds sat around with nothing better to do than make tons of coffee and run a bunch of experiments and blog about it and chat about it on discord or whatever.  so there is this weird fledgling coffee science, and really bright people starting to mess around with different/ better ways to make coffee.  some of these guys are literally astrophysicists, 

at the same time, there is a lot of bs out there, and a lot of opportunists who hype grinders on youtube.  

Heh. Try digital audio sometime. Made even worse by the people who do follow the science generally tend to quote one guy who had all the facts right... but then drew conclusions that didn't follow from the very facts he presented. And all too few people noticed.

Add to that the mystical powers supposedly contained by a $200 power cable, vs the actual amount of money required to get a standards-compliant HDMI cable, and you've got yourself a mess.

Edited January 30 by Rimbo

[Litig8r 414]

 

We don't use the steam deal.  Microwave the cream, use a $10 frother.   A lot easier to clean

[alphahydro 334]

6 minutes ago, Rimbo said:

Heh. Try digital audio sometime. Made even worse by the people who do follow the science generally tend to quote one guy who had all the facts right... but then drew conclusions that didn't follow from the very facts he presented. And all too few people noticed.

Add to that the mystical powers supposedly contained by a $200 power cable, vs the actual amount of money required to get a standards-compliant HDMI cable, and you've got yourself a mess.

100000% - i found this dude online (i don't know him, i just searched for his posts) in Norway, who had all these expensive grinders and burrs and he'd try them and offer his opinion - no financial incentive, just a hobbyist.  he'd invite his friends over with their fancy grinders and they'd do double blind tests and shit. 

there was one grinder burr combo he liked, the way he described it matched what i was looking for, so i ordered it.   literally a few weeks after i got it, he was like, nah, i think i like this other burr better.  LOL. FML.  turns out he is an audio engineer by trade and audio guy. 

i used to be into audio (i think there is a large crossover audio/wine and coffee snob) and i was at CES one year and this guy was selling stones that you put on your speakers to make them sound better.  i think this is them.  https://www.shakti-innovations.com/usesofshakti1.htm

and i was like, fuck that, lol.  im out. 

my point on this thread, i guess, is to prove to people that i'm insane and fell down the rabbit hole and for the most part with coffee stay away from the guys shilling fancy grinders and faster filter paper.  just get beans you like and a good recipe.  get good music and some decent speakers that fit the music you want to listen to.  don't waste thousands on shakti stones and cables. 

i really do recommend that youtube recipe i posted above.  the thing you need to make it is like $30 on amazon. 

[Chopper 17230]

27 minutes ago, alphahydro said:

100000% - i found this dude online (i don't know him, i just searched for his posts) in Norway, who had all these expensive grinders and burrs and he'd try them and offer his opinion - no financial incentive, just a hobbyist.  he'd invite his friends over with their fancy grinders and they'd do double blind tests and shit. 

there was one grinder burr combo he liked, the way he described it matched what i was looking for, so i ordered it.   literally a few weeks after i got it, he was like, nah, i think i like this other burr better.  LOL. FML.  turns out he is an audio engineer by trade and audio guy. 

i used to be into audio (i think there is a large crossover audio/wine and coffee snob) and i was at CES one year and this guy was selling stones that you put on your speakers to make them sound better.  i think this is them.  https://www.shakti-innovations.com/usesofshakti1.htm

and i was like, fuck that, lol.  im out. 

my point on this thread, i guess, is to prove to people that i'm insane and fell down the rabbit hole and for the most part with coffee stay away from the guys shilling fancy grinders and faster filter paper.  just get beans you like and a good recipe.  get good music and some decent speakers that fit the music you want to listen to.  don't waste thousands on shakti stones and cables. 

i really do recommend that youtube recipe i posted above.  the thing you need to make it is like $30 on amazon. 

Did you happen to read the Washington Post article a couple weeks back about the guy who wanted to build himself the finest audio system and listening room? free link if not https://wapo.st/3UkZ8ce header: He spent his life building a $1 million stereo. The real cost was unfathomable.
Ken Fritz turned his home into an audiophile’s dream — the world’s greatest hi-fi. What would it mean in the end?

 

 

[jimmyjazz 45880]

That dude knew exactly nothing about speaker technology and wasted a million plus on bullshit.  At least he had a hobby.