The Cowboy Church

[Trey3216 15346]

30 minutes ago, wild_turkey said:

It appears that you have labeled a large group of people who you don’t actually know as being racist. I guess your basis for this claim is that they identify as cowboys, or country folk, or merely that they are different from you and therefore must be less woke and more evil.

If you have some factual basis for your accusations then let’s hear it. Otherwise you are just making up stereotypes to help fill the world with fake enemies for yourself to look down upon.

I have never been to a cowboy church, don’t drive a truck, don’t own a cowboy hat. I don’t care about them but it irks me to watch people fling shit at other people all the time with no remorse. How are we supposed to come together as a country when people think like this? Maybe try looking for the good in other people for once instead of assuming every group unlike yourself is inherently evil.

It's ok for the educated, woke masses to fling insults and divisive hate.  Inclusion in to what only they believe.  How inclusive??!!  

[workswithseed 2112]

12 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Nope.  I spend a lotta time in "cowboy church" country.  I've seen more than a handful of rebel flag stickers on the back of trucks in the parking lot of some on a Sunday morning.  My extrapolation is not based solely on where they reside.

But....dude....it's not exactly a shocking revelation that the prevalence of rebel flag waving racists is a tad higher in rural Texas than it is elsewhere.  Take a drive sometime.  I see more rebel flags flying on a 2.5 hour drive out of Austin than I see in a month of driving IN Austin.  And it's not exactly a secret that more fundamentalist churches have a higher percentage of racists and similar thinkers in them than more progressive denominations.  Again, I'm not going out on a limb here.  There's been extensive polling on such issues.

No, not everyone who goes to a Cowboy Church is a racist.  Just like not everyone who goes to an urban church big on social justice is NOT racist.  I'm positive there are plenty of good and kind people who go to Cowboy Church - hell, based on this thread, I know a few of them, and know them to be genuinely good and kind people who aren't racist.  My point is solely about the generalities and percentages.  And you know as well as I do that the concept that I'm more likely to find a racist in the parking lot of a Cowboy Church than of an urban PCUSA church doesn't exactly shock the conscience.

Come on, man.....it's out in the open among fundamentalist leadership:

 

https://wm.academia.edu/JessicaJohnson

My scholarship is interdisciplinary and shaped by the methodological stakes of approaching ethnographic fieldwork with an intersectional lens attentive to racial, national, gendered, sexual, religious and classed hierarchies. My research interests include: affect theory; critical race, feminist, and queer theory; actor network theory; new materialism; digital and visual culture; critical media studies; religion and politics; new religious movements; religion and popular culture

My ethnographic study of Mars Hill Church in Seattle, Biblical Porn: Affect, Labor, and Pastor Mark Driscoll's Evangelical Empire, was published with Duke University Press in 2018. https://www.dukeupress.edu/biblical-porn

[BabaYaga 15299]

8 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Nope.  I spend a lotta time in "cowboy church" country.  I've seen more than a handful of rebel flag stickers on the back of trucks in the parking lot of some on a Sunday morning.  My extrapolation is not based solely on where they reside.

So you're cruising the parking lots inspecting stickers, huh?  Bullshit.  I have been to dozens over the years with rural friends and families.  From Coleman, Runnels, Mason, Concho, Tarrant and many other counties.  Almost are....take a wild guess.....off the highway made from prefab metal..  Almost all their parking lots are behind the church as they are trying to attract people to come in.  Unless you pull over to the shoulder or cruise the parking lot itself behind the church, your ass is not identifying stickers of any kind on any car or truck.  You are just making shit up.  

[BabaYaga 15299]

11 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

My scholarship is interdisciplinary and shaped by the methodological stakes of approaching ethnographic fieldwork with an intersectional lens attentive to racial, national, gendered, sexual, religious and classed hierarchies. My research interests include: affect theory; critical race, feminist, and queer theory; actor network theory; new materialism; digital and visual culture; critical media studies; religion and politics; new religious movements; religion and popular culture

Translation:  math and science are too hard

[wild_turkey 3159]

22 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Nope.  I spend a lotta time in "cowboy church" country.  I've seen more than a handful of rebel flag stickers on the back of trucks in the parking lot of some on a Sunday morning.  My extrapolation is not based solely on where they reside.

I can't remember the last time I saw a rebel flag on a truck, maybe once every year or two? Yet here you are seeing multiple rebel flag stickers on trucks in parking lots of churches you don't even attend. Do you get bored on a Sunday morning and go out looking for something to be angry about?

You're so full of shit and you know it. Just own it and bow out of the thread.

I'm leaving as well because I have much better things to do than argue with you about whether or not your perceived enemies are actually justifiable enemies.

[Guest Lobo]

1 minute ago, wild_turkey said:

I can't remember the last time I saw a rebel flag on a truck, maybe once every year or two? Yet here you are seeing multiple rebel flag stickers on trucks in parking lots of churches you don't even attend. Do you get bored on a Sunday morning and go out looking for something to be angry about?

You're so full of shit and you know it. Just own it and bow out of the thread.

I'm leaving as well because I have much better things to do than argue with you about whether or not your perceived enemies are actually justifiable enemies.

Brisket is being overly-stereotypical, but there's no way you only see a rebel flag on a pickup truck once every two years.  Our ridiculously rich Catholic Church has a rebel flag-adorned truck every week of the year.  And I don't even look that carefully.  

[Brisketexan 105151]

30 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

So you're cruising the parking lots inspecting stickers, huh?  Bullshit.  I have been to dozens over the years with rural friends and families.  From Coleman, Runnels, Mason, Concho, Tarrant and many other counties.  Almost are....take a wild guess.....off the highway made from prefab metal..  Almost all their parking lots are behind the church as they are trying to attract people to come in.  Unless you pull over to the shoulder or cruise the parking lot itself behind the church, your ass is not identifying stickers of any kind on any car or truck.  You are just making shit up.  

Are you f'n kidding me?  I can think of two right off the bat -- one off of 29 and another on the way to Canyon Lake -- with their main parking lot out front.  And it doesn't exactly take a discerning eye.  You drive by, you see a rebel flag.  Or driving out in Cowboy Church territory, you see a truck with both of these stickers on it:

Come the hell on.  For fuck's sake, my son comments on it -- unprompted - when we're driving out to go hunting, and it's not just one.  It's frequent.  It's the truck parked next to us as we gas up at the Valero in Llano, it's the truck we are stuck behind on 29, it's the flags flying from the property on the way to Brady, etc.  It's not one rebel flag.  It's a shitload of them.  The crossover of confederate flags and christian symbolism when you get out beyond the city limits is pretty damned easy to spot.  Not only are people not shy about it, they proudly display it.  Flags, stickers, open and proud.

EDIT -- just remembered that we took a family road trip in early January, from Austin through Brady and San Angelo, all the way to NM.  Particularly in the Austin to Brady stretch....there were plenty of visible rebel flags on vehicles, both on the road and in parking lots.  Again, enough that it prompted discussion by the whole family, including my wife and daughter.  But we also had a really nice conversation with some guys at a gas station in either Brady or Llano about the deer in their truck bed, where they'd been hunting, etc.  They were plenty country, and we had a very nice, happy, and friendly conversation.  I -- and my family -- aren't here to disparage across the board everyone who lives outside the city limits.  We're just sharing the not-shocking observation that the prevalence of more openly racist folks is higher in rural areas.  Again.....I really can't believe that's controversial. 

We're really having this argument?  I mean I know that we'd all like to pretend that there aren't a shitload of literally flag-waving racists out there, but come on.

Edited February 10, 2021 by Brisketexan

[Willfully Horn 8017]

19 hours ago, CHIEF said:

BT, I'm just gonna say that certain non-urban areas are much less racist than suburban and urban areas. Is this the rule, no. But there are a lot of areas that are an exception. A lot of division is not based on race around here. It is based on friendship, business, and treating each other with decency. Our high crime area is about 95% white trash meth heads. THAT is the worst characteristic/demographic you can have in Hood County, and that disappointment crosses every racial strata. You had every advantage, and chose what you decided to be. People are disgusted with choices, not race, around here.

 Our minority population is an asset. The stadium is named after one of the few African-Americans to ever live here. Everybody loves him, and loves our Hispanic population. A lot of our Hispanic population is in the top 50% of wage earners, and ALL of our African Americans are. Guess what? Our median income isn't something to brag about, if it wasn't for retirees, it would probably be much lower. Our concrete workers make $50k/year, and I'm talking about the laborers. These are successful people, and they work harder than most, and people realize that and admire it. These people are welcomed with open arms at all of the churches around here. 

What makes this rural county Red, isn't racism, it's bigger than that (while acknowledging it's still a national problem). It is all 2nd amendment. LEO can be at your door in 5-7 minutes, or less (an urban benefit, and why the voting result map looks like it does). It takes them 25-30 for me. Am I supposed to fight them hand-to-hand for 30 minutes till the cops get there?  Might makes Right. The cops don't show up to protect you, they show up to take statements and send the loser to the morgue.

CHIEF

Sounds like y'all are succeeding at striving for the Dream. I bet that area shares a pride in that. That pride is a good thing, IMO. 

[BabaYaga 15299]

3 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Are you f'n kidding me?  I can think of two right off the bat -- one off of 29 and another on the way to Canyon Lake -- with their main parking lot out front.  And it doesn't exactly take a discerning eye.  You drive by, you see a rebel flag.  Or driving out in Cowboy Church territory, you see a truck with both of these stickers on it:

Come the hell on.  For fuck's sake, my son comments on it -- unprompted - when we're driving out to go hunting, and it's not just one.  It's frequent.  It's the truck parked next to us as we gas up at the Valero in Llano, it's the truck we are stuck behind on 29, it's the flags flying from the property on the way to Brady, etc.  It's not one rebel flag.  It's a shitload of them.  The crossover of confederate flags and christian symbolism when you get out beyond the city limits is pretty damned easy to spot.  Not only are people not shy about it, they proudly display it.  Flags, stickers, open and proud.

We're really having this argument?  I mean I know that we'd all like to pretend that there aren't a shitload of literally flag-waving racists out there, but come on.

lol, you are just making shit up.  The one off Canyon Lake is secluded, set back and surrounded by trees.  Unless you drive to the church you are not getting a look at anyone's cars as the entire lot is ringed with trees.  

Then quickly pivot to "the country" in general.  A "shitload" of them.  We need a fucking brisket bingo card for every thread - you get a point for every generalization, hyperbole, and blanket statement.  

[Brisketexan 105151]

10 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

The one off Canyon Lake is secluded, set back and surrounded by trees. 

Again, are you fucking kidding me?  The one on 306?  It's right next to the highway, and while there are trees.....it's not a goddamned wall.  It's an open and easily seen parking lot that's maybe 50 feet off the road.
Goddamn.  Are we really having an argument about how prevalent rebel flags are on rural drives?  WTF?

It’s not like I’ve been keeping a journal, but I did snap a pic of this display on 29 in Burnet coming back from a deer hunt. I snapped it because of the full spectacle, but the rebel flag is right out front:

 

EDIT -- also, it was on this trip that I realized that Bealls was still in business.  I really hadn't paid any attention to that.

Edited February 10, 2021 by Brisketexan

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

1 hour ago, Deej said:

So the best way to curb racism is limit the number of black people? Got it. 

Ja that would be ein solution. A final solution. 

[BabaYaga 15299]

14 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Again, are you fucking kidding me?  The one on 306?  It's right next to the highway, and while there are trees.....it's not a goddamned wall.  It's an open and easily seen parking lot that's maybe 50 feet off the road.
Goddamn.  Are we really having an argument about how prevalent rebel flags are on rural drives?  WTF?

It’s not like I’ve been keeping a journal, but I did snap a pic of this display on 29 in Burnet coming back from a deer hunt. I snapped it because of the full spectacle, but the rebel flag is right out front:

No one one near Canyon Lake off FM22.  It's completely fucking secluded.  You are the one that had to shit all over the thread with generalizations about racism simply because they are in the country, then "supported" your claim with made up yarn about cruising through parking lots and correlating the prevalence of rural confederate flags to these churches.  You see those flags off the road because they are the size of beach towels.  Look at the cars in the back, while driving there is NO FUCKING WAY you are identifying ANY stickers on any of them....let alone a church tucked back off the highway.

Nobody gives a shit about your strawman argument you are having with yourself about confederate flags still in circulation.  Nor does anyone care any more than frothing libs at rainbow churches sporting Che shirts or adorning the sickle and hammer (which I saw with my brothers Presby church in Lacy, WA).  Seriously, go fuck up another thread somewhere else.....

Edited February 10, 2021 by BabaYaga

[immortal13 4059]

28 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Are you f'n kidding me?  I can think of two right off the bat -- one off of 29 and another on the way to Canyon Lake -- with their main parking lot out front.  And it doesn't exactly take a discerning eye.  You drive by, you see a rebel flag.  Or driving out in Cowboy Church territory, you see a truck with both of these stickers on it:

Come the hell on.  For fuck's sake, my son comments on it -- unprompted - when we're driving out to go hunting, and it's not just one.  It's frequent.  It's the truck parked next to us as we gas up at the Valero in Llano, it's the truck we are stuck behind on 29, it's the flags flying from the property on the way to Brady, etc.  It's not one rebel flag.  It's a shitload of them.  The crossover of confederate flags and christian symbolism when you get out beyond the city limits is pretty damned easy to spot.  Not only are people not shy about it, they proudly display it.  Flags, stickers, open and proud.

EDIT -- just remembered that we took a family road trip in early January, from Austin through Brady and San Angelo, all the way to NM.  Particularly in the Austin to Brady stretch....there were plenty of visible rebel flags on vehicles, both on the road and in parking lots.  Again, enough that it prompted discussion by the whole family, including my wife and daughter.  But we also had a really nice conversation with some guys at a gas station in either Brady or Llano about the deer in their truck bed, where they'd been hunting, etc.  They were plenty country, and we had a very nice, happy, and friendly conversation.  I -- and my family -- aren't here to disparage across the board everyone who lives outside the city limits.  We're just sharing the not-shocking observation that the prevalence of more openly racist folks is higher in rural areas.  Again.....I really can't believe that's controversial. 

We're really having this argument?  I mean I know that we'd all like to pretend that there aren't a shitload of literally flag-waving racists out there, but come on.

If your claim is true(obviously it is not), then why couldn't you come up with a picture with BOTH fucking stickers on the same truck? You are pathetic. Get off the thread you ignorant, race-baiting liar.

[Brisketexan 105151]

1 minute ago, BabaYaga said:

No one one near Canyon Lake off FM22.  It's completely fucking secluded.  You are the one that had to shit all over the thread with generalizations about racism simply because they are in the country, then "supported" your claim with made up yarn about cruising through parking lots and correlating the prevalence of rural confederate flags to these churches.  You see those flags off the road because they are the size of beach towels.  Look at the cars in the back, while driving these is NO FUCKING WAY you are identifying ANY stickers on any of them....let alone a church tucker back off the highway.

Nobody gives a shit about your strawman argument you are having with yourself about confederate flags still in circulation.  Nor does anyone care any more than frothing libs at rainbow churches sporting Che shirts or adorning the sickle and hammer (which I saw with my brothers Presby church in Lacy, WA).  Seriously, go fuck up another thread somewhere else.....

Cool.  Cowboy Churches are no doubt hotbeds of enlightened, kind theology, and even though the overlap between fundamentalism and racism is a known and indisputable phenomenon, they are surely the outlier.   Seriously, the defensiveness is off the fucking charts.  Struck a nerve or something?

[BabaYaga 15299]

1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:

Cool.  Cowboy Churches are no doubt hotbeds of enlightened, kind theology, and even though the overlap between fundamentalism and racism is a known and indisputable phenomenon, they are surely the outlier.   Seriously, the defensiveness is off the fucking charts.  Struck a nerve or something?

No - I just call our race baiting liars when I see them.

[immortal13 4059]

1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:

Cool.  Cowboy Churches are no doubt hotbeds of enlightened, kind theology, and even though the overlap between fundamentalism and racism is a known and indisputable phenomenon, they are surely the outlier.   Seriously, the defensiveness is off the fucking charts.  Struck a nerve or something?

No you didn't strike a nerve. You simply engaged in ignorant hate speech. Congratulations 

[Guest Lobo]

Y’all are spending way too much time in church parking lots for myriad reasons.  
 

I think some people attend mega churches or pre fab churches be ages there’s no schools attached to them.  Hence no violation of parole. 

[immortal13 4059]

1 minute ago, Lobo said:

Y’all are spending way too much time in church parking lots for myriad reasons.  
 

I think some people attend mega churches or pre fab churches be ages there’s no schools attached to them.  Hence no violation of parole. 

Well I just park for an hour or two once a week. Apparently Brisket is out casing every cowboy church parking lot across the state. 🤣🤣

[Brisketexan 105151]

1 minute ago, immortal13 said:

If your claim is true(obviously it is not), then why couldn't you come up with a picture with BOTH fucking stickers on the same truck? You are pathetic. Get off the thread you ignorant, race-baiting liar.

Because.....I don't drive around taking pictures of the back of vehicles, and I just grabbed a pic of each sticker off of a quick google search because...again, I searched for images of the stickers?  I mean, I also don't have any pictures of the outside of an Allsup's, but I assure you, I have seen many of them on my drives through W. Texas.  Or.....am I full of shit because I didn't stop to take pictures of something that is right out there in the open, and I never fucking imagined I'd be facing an argument of "there are no fucking Allsup's, and you don't have any pics so you're full of shit?"

This "argument" is genuinely enlightening to me.  It never even occurred to me that there would be a factual debate about the overlap of confederate and christian symbols being rather overt in rural areas.  I thought that was something so apparent to anyone driving down the road, that it isn't much different than my observation of "yeah, there's a buncha Allsup's in west Texas."  To read people saying they've seen maybe one rebel flag on a truck once in the past year or two.....shit, I've seen more than that in Austin proper.  These are two entirely different realities, and I have no idea how to reconcile them.  I shouldn't be amazed anymore, but I am.

[immortal13 4059]

Just now, Brisketexan said:

Because.....I don't drive around taking pictures of the back of vehicles, and I just grabbed a pic of each sticker off of a quick google search because...again, I searched for images of the stickers?  I mean, I also don't have any pictures of the outside of an Allsup's, but I assure you, I have seen many of them on my drives through W. Texas.  Or.....am I full of shit because I didn't stop to take pictures of something that is right out there in the open, and I never fucking imagined I'd be facing an argument of "there are no fucking Allsup's, and you don't have any pics so you're full of shit?"

This "argument" is genuinely enlightening to me.  It never even occurred to me that there would be a factual debate about the overlap of confederate and christian symbols being rather overt in rural areas.  I thought that was something so apparent to anyone driving down the road, that it isn't much different than my observation of "yeah, there's a buncha Allsup's in west Texas."  To read people saying they've seen maybe one rebel flag on a truck once in the past year or two.....shit, I've seen more than that in Austin proper.  These are two entirely different realities, and I have no idea how to reconcile them.  I shouldn't be amazed anymore, but I am.

It's pretty obvious you "Googled" those pics but thanks for telling us. And hey bro this is the hill you fucking decided to die on, not me. Maybe next time you should bring along some proof before you go spouting out at the keyboard.

[Zepol87 9188]

I have some friends in and around Denton whose parents go to CC and they are some of the nicest people I know and love the church and rodeo type stuff they do. My brother lives in Kaufman and has some buddies that go to it as well, those guys are racist assholes and they go to be around other racist assholes.

[SimonBolivar 10958]

1 hour ago, wild_turkey said:

I can't remember the last time I saw a rebel flag on a truck, maybe once every year or two? Yet here you are seeing multiple rebel flag stickers on trucks in parking lots of churches you don't even attend. Do you get bored on a Sunday morning and go out looking for something to be angry about?

You're so full of shit and you know it. Just own it and bow out of the thread.

I'm leaving as well because I have much better things to do than argue with you about whether or not your perceived enemies are actually justifiable enemies.

I don't know about church parking lots, but there in no way you've only seen one rebel flag on a truck in the last year or two. Luckily they're not as common as they once were, but they aren't that rare.

[Gatorubet 30242]

 
8 out of 10 evangelicals supported Trump and his policies.

The common clay of the new west...

[Ghost of LL 15531]

4 minutes ago, SimonBolivar said:

I don't know about church parking lots, but there in no way you've only seen one rebel flag on a truck in the last year or two. Luckily they're not as common as they once were, but they aren't that rare.

They're not as common as they once were only because they have been partially replaced by Trump flags.  But I wonder, now that Trump is out of office whether they will make a comeback.

And now we're going to have people argue that Trump flags don't operate as an ersatz Confederate flag, when observation tells us otherwise.  There are a number of drives that I have had to take with some regularity due to cases, and so I'm pretty familiar with the houses along the way.  And there are a fair number of them that reliably had a Confederate flag out front that changed to a Trump flag around 2016.

And anyway--the argument that Confederate flags aren't a common sight in rural Texas just blows me away.  I mean, come on, guys.

[immortal13 4059]

2 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

They're not as common as they once were only because they have been partially replaced by Trump flags.  But I wonder, now that Trump is out of office whether they will make a comeback.

And now we're going to have people argue that Trump flags don't operate as an ersatz Confederate flag, when observation tells us otherwise.  There are a number of drives that I have had to take with some regularity due to cases, and so I'm pretty familiar with the houses along the way.  And there are a fair number of them that reliably had a Confederate flag out front that changed to a Trump flag around 2016.

And anyway--the argument that Confederate flags aren't a common sight in rural Texas just blows me away.  I mean, come on, guys.

Great idea for a new thread 

[Bobby_Batronic 1994]

16 minutes ago, Zepol87 said:

I have some friends in and around Denton whose parents go to CC and they are some of the nicest people I know and love the church and rodeo type stuff they do. My brother lives in Kaufman and has some buddies that go to it as well, those guys are racist assholes and they go to be around other racist assholes.

So why is a Hispanic guy buddying up with racist assholes again? Seems counterintuitive. 

[CHIEF 5091]

I do agree with Brisket on one thing very strongly, that is, a Confederate Flag on a vehicle has no business being in a church parking lot. I find the sticker to be reprehensible. How can you, if you are truly a Child of Christ, justify having a sticker on your vehicle that stands for the subjugation of another Child of God, and basically rubs their nose in it. The ol' "it's not hate it's heritage" is complete and utter bullshit.

The number one thing, and by far the biggest, for evangelicals and fundamentalists is abortion. I haven't heard many prayers in the last several years that doesn't mention God please forgive our nation for the killing of the unborn, then they usually quote Jeremiah 1:5:

Jeremiah 1:5 - Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, [and] I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

How do we know as Americans, and legalizing abortion, that someone special to God wasn't killed in the womb? That is the argument most of the fundamentalists use. They blame all of the bad things happening in America on killing the unborn.

Next is second amendment rights. Last is a continued erosion of our civil liberties, and the rise of the surveillance state. Never do I hear about keeping the oppressed oppressed, or keeping the White man on top.

If Joe Biden ran on a promise to stop abortion, and just keeping the second amendment he would have swept the evangelical/fundamentalist vote.

Also, no one here is keeping black people out. Our soil sucks for raising cotton. If you knew your history, you would also realize that's why the Hill Country has a very low Black demographic as well. No fields to work as slaves or later as sharecroppers.

CHIEF

Edited February 10, 2021 by CHIEF

[workswithseed 2112]

46 minutes ago, Lobo said:

Y’all are spending way too much time in church parking lots for myriad reasons.  
 

I think some people attend mega churches or pre fab churches be ages there’s no schools attached to them.  Hence no violation of parole. 

I lost my virginity in a church parking lot. 

[Guest Lobo]

Why did you have to attach my quote to that disturbing story?  Just post it by itself, alone, solo...like you are now

[Ghost of LL 15531]

29 minutes ago, CHIEF said:

How do we know as Americans, and legalizing abortion, that someone special to God wasn't killed in the womb? That is the argument most of the fundamentalists use. They blame all of the bad things happening in America on killing the unborn.

Next is second amendment rights. Last is a continued erosion of our civil liberties, and the rise of the surveillance state. Never do I hear about keeping the oppressed oppressed, or keeping the White man on top.

So much to unpack in these two paragraphs.

1) The absolute disconnect between the awfulness of killing "someone special to God" and "second amendment rights" is amazing to watch.  It's the same disconnect as those who oppose abortion and favor the death penalty.  But in this case, it's even more extreme.  Because at least with the death penalty, I'm not the guy pulling the trigger.

I mean, let me be real honest here--I own a gun.  I have it for self-defense.  It's absolutely there to kill someone, should the need arise.  But I'm definitely not going to argue that my gun ownership is anything other than completely antithetical to my Christian faith.

2) You don't hear "keep the oppressed oppressed."  You just hear about all the things that carry out that result.  

Banning abortion--and its extension, banning birth control, which many Catholics and Evangelicals both support--keeps women oppressed.  Without the ability to determine when and whether they have children, women are at a material professional and societal disadvantage to men.

And your second-amendment rights?  Give me a break.  You don't see how that doesn't keep people of color oppressed?  C'mon, man--we've seen all those Trump protests with white guys open carrying.  And we all know that that's a privilege that white people have.  You see a Black guy open carrying an AR-15, you and I both know what happens.

White people get to own guns without adverse consequence.  They get to carry guns openly.  They get to carry guns openly and shove them in Black peoples' faces.  They don't need to say "I'm keeping you oppressed."  The message is clear.

[El Diablo 4232]

Never argue with a word warlock. 

[Guest Lobo]

Just don't argue with any warlocks, period.  

That said, Warlocks have great Cowboy Churches and lots of stickers for your flying toad or off-road shapeshifters. 

[Armybrat 40850]

49 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

I lost my virginity in a church parking lot. 

I lost mine in the Chief Drive In. Does that make me a racist?

[CHIEF 5091]

22 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

So much to unpack in these two paragraphs.

1) The absolute disconnect between the awfulness of killing "someone special to God" and "second amendment rights" is amazing to watch.  It's the same disconnect as those who oppose abortion and favor the death penalty.  But in this case, it's even more extreme.  Because at least with the death penalty, I'm not the guy pulling the trigger.

I mean, let me be real honest here--I own a gun.  I have it for self-defense.  It's absolutely there to kill someone, should the need arise.  But I'm definitely not going to argue that my gun ownership is anything other than completely antithetical to my Christian faith.

2) You don't hear "keep the oppressed oppressed."  You just hear about all the things that carry out that result.  

Banning abortion--and its extension, banning birth control, which many Catholics and Evangelicals both support--keeps women oppressed.  Without the ability to determine when and whether they have children, women are at a material professional and societal disadvantage to men.

And your second-amendment rights?  Give me a break.  You don't see how that doesn't keep people of color oppressed?  C'mon, man--we've seen all those Trump protests with white guys open carrying.  And we all know that that's a privilege that white people have.  You see a Black guy open carrying an AR-15, you and I both know what happens.

White people get to own guns without adverse consequence.  They get to carry guns openly.  They get to carry guns openly and shove them in Black peoples' faces.  They don't need to say "I'm keeping you oppressed."  The message is clear.

I'm not saying I'm an Evangelical or Fundamentalist. But you can't live in a rural town in America, and not know what makes them tick. None of the Woke get it. It's really that simple. Do you think they get to secondary consequences? You give them too much credit. You think the way they vote is based in racism? It isn't. But the consequences break down along racial lines. The Woke Crowd calling them racist only builds resentment. They align themselves with what they read, and interpret in the Bible and nothing else. 

CHIEF

Edited February 11, 2021 by CHIEF
interpret

[Bobby_Batronic 1994]

Owning a gun for self defense is anti Christian? Guess that German Shepherd I own is also a tool of the devil. 

[Gatorubet 30242]

I lost mine in the Chief Drive In. Does that make me a racist?

Depends whether you’d set that slave free yet

[Guest Lobo]

5 minutes ago, Armybrat said:

I lost mine in the Chief Drive In. Does that make me a racist?

(Guy, to his betrothed, behind Armybrat's jostling Model-T):  "For a silent film sweetheart, I hear an awful lot of moaning."  

[workswithseed 2112]

2 minutes ago, Bobby_Batronic said:

Owning a gun for self defense is anti Christian? Guess that German Shepherd I own is also a tool of the devil. 

Natural rights? What are those?

[Gatorubet 30242]

I'm not saying I'm an Evangelical or Fundamentalist. But you can't live in a rural town in America, and not know what makes them tick. None of the Woke get it. It's really that simple. Do you think they get to secondary consequences? You give them too much credit. You think the way they vote is based in racism? They align themselves with what they read, and interpret in the Bible and nothing else. 
CHIEF

And they have ALWAYS interpreted their Bible is racist ways. First admit that, THEN you can explain to us why they did do that, but they no longer do that.

To ignore that little fact is to diminish the rest of your argument.

[workswithseed 2112]

12 minutes ago, Armybrat said:

I lost mine in the Chief Drive In. Does that make me a racist?

You don't have to be so mean to CHIEF to tell us all that you had his wife in your arms. 

[dcbc 14487]

Sawdust joint.

[workswithseed 2112]

8 minutes ago, Gatorubet said:

And they have ALWAYS interpreted their Bible is racist ways. First admit that, THEN you can explain to us why they did do that, but they no longer do that.

To ignore that little fact is to diminish the rest of your argument.

Who interpret the bible is racists ways?

[Ghost of LL 15531]

9 minutes ago, CHIEF said:

I'm not saying I'm an Evangelical or Fundamentalist. But you can't live in a rural town in America, and not know what makes them tick. None of the Woke get it. It's really that simple. Do you think they get to secondary consequences? You give them too much credit. You think the way they vote is based in racism? It isn't. But the consequences break down along racial lines. The Woke Crowd calling them racist only builds resentment. They align themselves with what they read, and interpret in the Bible and nothing else. 

CHIEF

You are treading real close to the notorious Obama comment that "they cling to their god and their guns."

I don't think they're stupid.  You do.  But I don't.  I think they know precisely what they're saying and the exact effect of what they believe.

7 minutes ago, Bobby_Batronic said:

Owning a gun for self defense is anti Christian? Guess that German Shepherd I own is also a tool of the devil. 

When those who were around Jesus saw what was about to take place, they asked, “Lord, should we attack with our swords?”  Then one of them struck the high priest’s servant, cutting off his right ear.

But Jesus said, “No more of this!” So he touched the wounded man’s ear and healed him.

--Luke 22:49-51

 

Or perhaps you prefer the Book of Matthew:

But I say to you, Do not resist the one who is evil. But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.

--Matthew 5:39

[TwiceHorn 31487]

3 hours ago, wild_turkey said:

It appears that you have labeled a large group of people who you don’t actually know as being racist. I guess your basis for this claim is that they identify as cowboys, or country folk, or merely that they are different from you and therefore must be less woke and more evil.

If you have some factual basis for your accusations then let’s hear it. Otherwise you are just making up stereotypes to help fill the world with fake enemies for yourself to look down upon.

I have never been to a cowboy church, don’t drive a truck, don’t own a cowboy hat. I don’t care about them but it irks me to watch people fling shit at other people all the time with no remorse. How are we supposed to come together as a country when people think like this? Maybe try looking for the good in other people for once instead of assuming every group unlike yourself is inherently evil.

Yeah, I am a harsh critic of fundagelicals, yet promote more mainstream religions.  I know little to nothing about the Cowboy Church.

I am a bit wary of congregational sects, because they tend to the fundagelical, which is an interesting phenomenon.  And association with the SBC perhaps bodes ill on the fundagelical front.

But, since I know nothing, I'm not going to condemn them.

[Bobby_Batronic 1994]

14 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

You are treading real close to the notorious Obama comment that "they cling to their god and their guns."

I don't think they're stupid.  You do.  But I don't.  I think they know precisely what they're saying and the exact effect of what they believe.

When those who were around Jesus saw what was about to take place, they asked, “Lord, should we attack with our swords?”  Then one of them struck the high priest’s servant, cutting off his right ear.

But Jesus said, “No more of this!” So he touched the wounded man’s ear and healed him.

--Luke 22:49-51

 

Or perhaps you prefer the Book of Matthew:

But I say to you, Do not resist the one who is evil. But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.

--Matthew 5:39

Pretty sure the son of God knew what was required of him. Bloodshed during the arrest was pointless. 

And not replying an eye for an eye has nothing to do with self defense but vengeance. If you want to do the gymnastics to run with that view then that’s fine. But to sit there and let someone break into your house and or assault/kill you and your family isn’t what those verses are getting at imoho. 

God wasn’t shy about certain acts requiring death in the Old Testament, and he didn’t go out of his way to point out self defense being murder or capital punishment being wrong in his ministry in the New Testament. At best you have some tangental verses that require some squinting to arrive at those conclusions.  

Edited February 11, 2021 by Bobby_Batronic

[Armybrat 40850]

Well, I’m married to a devout Catholic who is leery of the Pope, yet tolerates me posting here and that I make fun of Bible-thumpers on occasion.

[NeverMarryAStripper 21907]

3 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Nope.  I spend a lotta time in "cowboy church" country.  I've seen more than a handful of rebel flag stickers on the back of trucks in the parking lot of some on a Sunday morning.  My extrapolation is not based solely on where they reside.

But....dude....it's not exactly a shocking revelation that the prevalence of rebel flag waving racists is a tad higher in rural Texas than it is elsewhere.  Take a drive sometime.  I see more rebel flags flying on a 2.5 hour drive out of Austin than I see in a month of driving IN Austin.  And it's not exactly a secret that more fundamentalist churches have a higher percentage of racists and similar thinkers in them than more progressive denominations.  Again, I'm not going out on a limb here.  There's been extensive polling on such issues.

No, not everyone who goes to a Cowboy Church is a racist.  Just like not everyone who goes to an urban church big on social justice is NOT racist.  I'm positive there are plenty of good and kind people who go to Cowboy Church - hell, based on this thread, I know a few of them, and know them to be genuinely good and kind people who aren't racist.  My point is solely about the generalities and percentages.  And you know as well as I do that the concept that I'm more likely to find a racist in the parking lot of a Cowboy Church than of an urban PCUSA church doesn't exactly shock the conscience.

Come on, man.....it's out in the open among fundamentalist leadership:

 

I’ve seen more than a few confederate stickers and flags on vehicles in the parking lot of places that specialize in smoked brisket

[DalTxHornFan 3102]

About this thread:

 

[Brisketexan 105151]

Owning a gun for self defense is anti Christian? Guess that German Shepherd I own is also a tool of the devil. 

It depends.....heavily....on where you smear the peanut butter.

[Johnny Sack 8397]

21 hours ago, Bernard said:

Hood County Demographics per Wikipedia...
As of the census^[8] of 2000, 41,100 people were residing in the county.
94.77% White,
0.33% African American,
0.82% Native American,
0.31% Asian,
2.44% from other races, and
1.32% from two or more races.
About 7.24% of the population were Hispanic or Latinos of any race.

Yep. Looks like a real melting pot you got there in Hood County. It's hard for 41,200 residents to be racist when there's only 135 black folks in the whole county. 🙂

Bernard

I spent high school in the Valley.  Where there were like 4 blacks per county and it's 90 percent hispanic.  The shit Valley hispanics said about the few blacks around would make a KKK member blush.  So no it is not hard to be racist when there is a dominant race and only a handful of minorities.