Gold bug / silver bug / numismatic / metals thread

[Pimphand 5732]

 

Andy is a BAMF

[Pimphand 5732]

so much silver going to the puerto rico trench

[Pimphand 5732]

Patton up at bat!

[RDCanecutter 26377]

Aw man. A dealer down the road has 300 early 1950s Hidalgo wreath 5 peso coins to sell. 20 grams asw each so 3 = almost 2 troy oz. And here I sit having just paid a bunch of bills like a damn loser.

[RDCanecutter 26377]

About 5 years ago, turns out I was being followed by the Pelham Police on suspicion of robbing a gold shop.

I found this out today when talking to a buddy who used to have a precious metals store there. Pelham is a suburb 20 miles south of Birmingham. I used to commute past there and on the way home sometimes I'd stop and get coins. One day, the owner went to the bathroom and his mom was there in the front. I show up, she buzzed me in, I did my shopping and left.

Dude gets a call from the police-- "ARE YOU ALRIGHT?" "Yeah, why wouldn't I be?" "Give us a sign you are alright."

He goes to the door, there is a massive police presence. They tell him they also have me in sight following me down the road. Turns out when Mom buzzed me in, she didn't know which button opened the door and she hit the panic button first.

I don't remember anything unusual, cluelessly bopping along home. 

[Armybrat 40818]

Lucky you weren’t wearing grey slacks.

[RDCanecutter 26377]

With gold shooting up, and the general public buying metal at Costco, I wonder how long before we see some classic scams.

Thought I would review some past classics and y'all can jump in with any y'all remember.

I wonder where Hannes Tulving Jr. is now. My memory is fuzzy, so maybe google for exact details, but iirc in the early 90s he was a numismatics dealer (for new guys, numismatics = coins valued on condition and rarity instead of just weight and composition) and was part of a trend at that time of selling them as investments with a predictable increase in value.

Well, the bottom fell out of that, and I believe he got charged with knowingly flogging over-priced assets. Don't think he did actual time.

Well, next he alters course, gets out of numismatics, and goes pure bullion, where x amount of gold or silver is worth y dollars. He specialized in minimum orders of thousands of dollars and shipped fast for the minimum mark up. This went smoothly for years.

Something changed around 2013-2014. Orders went out slowly or not at all. Tulving was running some sort of Ponzi where he would take cash from new orders to buy the metal to fulfill older orders. By the time the engine seized up, he owed in excess of 15 million to 300+ people (it's probably gone forever) and he got sent to Club Fed for a few years in 2016.

He should be out by now, and still under 70 years old. I wonder what he's up to now.

[Armybrat 40818]

On 3/10/2024 at 3:19 PM, RDCanecutter said:

With gold shooting up, and the general public buying metal at Costco, I wonder how long before we see some classic scams.

Thought I would review some past classics and y'all can jump in with any y'all remember.

I wonder where Hannes Tulving Jr. is now. My memory is fuzzy, so maybe google for exact details, but iirc in the early 90s he was a numismatics dealer (for new guys, numismatics = coins valued on condition and rarity instead of just weight and composition) and was part of a trend at that time of selling them as investments with a predictable increase in value.

Well, the bottom fell out of that, and I believe he got charged with knowingly flogging over-priced assets. Don't think he did actual time.

Well, next he alters course, gets out of numismatics, and goes pure bullion, where x amount of gold or silver is worth y dollars. He specialized in minimum orders of thousands of dollars and shipped fast for the minimum mark up. This went smoothly for years.

Something changed around 2013-2014. Orders went out slowly or not at all. Tulving was running some sort of Ponzi where he would take cash from new orders to buy the metal to fulfill older orders. By the time the engine seized up, he owed in excess of 15 million to 300+ people (it's probably gone forever) and he got sent to Club Fed for a few years in 2016.

He should be out by now, and still under 70 years old. I wonder what he's up to now.

Probably at a Ouija séance attempting to contact the Hunt Brothers for some pointers.

[Guest]

Someone just sent this to me and I hadn't seen in before. What a good looking coin:

 

 

[bernorange 8359]

https://catalog.usmint.gov/american-liberty-one-ounce-225th-anniversary-gold-coin-17XA.html

US Mint says that commemorative coin has a mintage limit of 100,000.

[RDCanecutter 26377]

As much as the metals, I love the Goblin stories behind the metals. Today I bring you

The Tragic Tale of Ohio Precious Metals

Located in the small town of Jackson OH, this refinery was once one of the 4 biggest producers of gold "good delivery" bars, and employed 250 people in the area. I remember them referred to as "Blue Collar" silver rounds, and I like the design on the one I still have.

But then there was a merger with NTR in Texas, and some sort of new HQ under "Elemetals." In itself not a problem.

What became a problem were three douchbags in Miami buying cartel gold for the organization.

There was trouble, and Ohio Precious Metals took the biggest hit. You can't deliver Good Delivery bars containing known blood money gold.

The other parts of the operation may still be stumbling along. As far as I know, OPM in Jackson Ohio no longer employs anyone.

Edited March 30 by RDCanecutter

[RDCanecutter 26377]

For Monday I've got a wild hair to ignore all adult responsibilities, pull some money from an ATM, and ride around to 4 or 5 coin shops tomorrow buying the same thing from each one. Something like a generic silver round, or maybe some 90%.

Edited April 1 by RDCanecutter

[bernorange 8359]

For the lulz:

 

[RDCanecutter 26377]

The Great Alabama Coin Recon

For no other point that your metal-head entertainment, today I took a couple hundred bucks out of the ATM and decided to visit all 5 coin stores I knew of in the Birmingham Alabama area.

If this amuses you, maybe do the same thing where you live.

My goal was to find one ounce of silver in each place at the best price possible, but NOT while imitating my old Pakistani housemate's bargaining skills, just ask the price, pay it, move on, Maybe see if each place had something unique.

Our steed on this journey will be my 95 Geo Tracker that has taken me to Maine and Mexico. It lives in the garage now because young mechanics don't know how to work on it, and old ones are too drunk. It pours oil out the front end so I brought a jug and a funnel with me. Probably a fish kill will be on my record when I die and go to hell.

The stores on the industrial west side where people work for a living were the first to open, so from Downtown Bham we roll west.

Edited April 1 by RDCanecutter

[RDCanecutter 26377]

STORE 1: Hueytown Pawn & Coin Guns Utility Trailers

If you don't hear Drive By Truckers in your head when you exit onto the Allison-Bonnett Memorial Drive into Hueytown, I don't know how to help you.

Hueytown Pawn and Coin is basically a gun store with some used powertools as well.

So I had fun talking about guns.

Finally asked them if they had coins, the guy directed me to a square-foot area with maybe a dozen ounces in bars and rounds. I was suddenly seized by the realization that, no matter how honest these guys undoubtedly were, they didn't do enough volume to justify buying testing equipment. I even asked if they had 90% to cover my ass, but they were out that day.

But I was on a mission for Surly, so I bit the bullet and chose a rather drowned-looking milky Buffalo round for $29.

They were pleasant, this was my first visit but I'd come poke around again for a chainsaw and maybe more coins. They were just barely a coin store, but probably this is what most of America has nearby in smaller towns,

[RDCanecutter 26377]

STORE 2: Coin Castle West

Bessemer is the Chester to Birmingham's Philadelphia. We head down the Bessemer Superhighway, which was quite advanced in its industrial heyday. There are still lots of trains and factories that make solid heavy things. Yet there is calm in the air.

Coin Castle West is the survivor of a once multi-store family operation going back at least 50 years. The family have included new (and probably much more lucrative) operations such as vinyl banners and embroidering, so on any visit you'll hear the energy of robot minions clattering away. Yet it is still a coin store-- stacks of coins, interesting coins, slope like dunes in glass cases.

The brother handles the coin buys and sales with aplomb. Once he rounded up a sale to me by one dollar after tossing a Barber Dime on the pile.

Today, after gently working with an elder who'd come in with a clad Bicentennial Quarter, He showed me a pile of loose rounds for 28 and eagles for more. Peeking out of the top was one of my favorite coins, a 1979 Mexican sterling silver Onza. $28. Trato hecho.

If I hadn't had a 1 oz limit per store, I'd have dug more cool stuff out of that pile. Such is typical of this store.

 

Edited April 1 by RDCanecutter

[RDCanecutter 26377]

INTERLUDE: Downtown Bessemer

Car care, Tracker had not lost very much oil.

RDCanecutter Care, I bulked up on some fried catfish that slapped. As I bit into it, Theme from Shaft came out of the speakers.

Found a We Buy Gold place full of antique sewing machines, apparently only open on Sundays. I wonder what metallic oddities have been accumulating in their safe since the 1920s.

But now is the time to turn our path back circling east, through the hills and far away.

[baboso 6054]

Catfish place in Bessemer have a name?

[RDCanecutter 26377]

STORE 3: Alabama Coin Shop in Pelham

As we swing south of Birmingham everything turns green and bucolic, pleasant green hills and most places named after English villages so we enjoy some proper motoring, hardly ever drifting into the left lane, what.

Then we come over a last ridge, t-bone into US 31 and a flat spot where they decapitated a small mountain, and there sits our first 100% coin store of the day, Alabama Coin Shop. It's a Spartan place, 3 or 4 cases of coins and room to look at them, which is now taken up by a man searching stacks of pennies, another one eyeing gold coins, and me, like Goldilocks, just right with the silver.

The owner's got generic for 27, Silver Eagles for 30, and if anybody in town is underselling him, he wants us to tell him so he can beat their prices.

There's quick turnover, high energy. He tells us how he just sold a 1997 Libertad to a dude for $200, didn't even have to eBay it. I think of my dozen-or-so Libertads at home. [spoiler, no 1997s.]

When I ask him about 90%, he's selling it for melt. No-brainer! $1.40 face (1 ounce) for 25 bucks. Actually a smidge under melt. I cursed my 1 ounce per store plan. But it was time to move back up US 31 towards Birmingham.

10 minutes ago, baboso said:

Catfish place in Bessemer have a name?

https://bobsykes.com/

Edited April 1 by RDCanecutter

[RDCanecutter 26377]

STORE 4: Southern Coin and Collectible in Hoover

For the rest of our journey we stay on US 31, the old north-south route that Hank Williams Sr was riding to Nashville on when he up and died. Nobody's listening to Hank Williams on this road today, they are listening to auto-tuned mumbling. I won't abide that. But I also don't much like Hank's music. I DO like Southern Culture on the Skids. If you don't, just hum you some Hank instead of clicking on S.C.O.T.S.

Southern Coin is the biggest coin store in the area, a multi-generational concern packed with interesting artifacts, stuff like D. B. Cooper money, antique weapons, jewelry, and of course every kind of coin. It is the closest place here to getting to sit in on an episode of Pawn Stars, and for that reason I always let other people go first so I can be a fly on the wall.

When I arrive there are three people selling, one has jewelry and seems like he must be a sub-contractor, another are a father and son selling silver Eagles and similar, and a third has 8 gold ounces.

"2200 each for the gold," says the owner. "But that's not spot," says the customer. "It's higher than 99% of the country is paying, and it's what I can afford to pay now. If we don't sell them right away, we melt them, sell them to guys who'll pay us 1% more. I never thought I'd see us melt Eagles."

It's true but hard to take. In earlier spikes nobody got full melt until the craziness settled down. But maybe the guy bought them a lot under 2,200.

When it's my turn I pick out a samurai art bar by Golden State Mint. I bet it comes from the 80s when we were all supposed to read "The Book of Five Rings." It's 29. the Owner rings me up and says it's $28.

Southern Coin does the complete sales wrap-up with receipts, even ceremonially listing sales tax even though it's 0% on coins and bullion since one of our politicians changed that years back.

[RDCanecutter 26377]

STORE 5: Alabama Gold Refinery in Homewood

Sitting almost exactly at the population center of the Birmingham Metro, and walking distance from some of the wealthiest neighborhoods, we find the hidden gem of Alabama Gold Refinery. When the owner first opened, he pioneered having a website full of by-the-minute-accurate buy and sell prices. Not long after, he was the one leaning on the politicians to scrap taxes on bullion. I personally appreciate these deeds and it doesn't hurt that he paid me 50 bucks for an 18 karat earring my wife found on a walk.

The vibe is an upscale jewelry shop, with fine watches, art work, and yes, a fair supply of gold and silver. They don't really do the 90% thing, but have plenty of bullion including hand-poured.

Since this 70 mile trip is winding down, I'll relax with something timeless.

I grub through a tray of generic, then tell them they accidentally left a Peace Dollar in there. They didn't. I'm wrong. it's a faux-Peace-Dollar one-ounce bullion round. I choose it to do penance for my false pride.

$27.67 and my change are brilliant coins from a proof set.

Edited April 2 by RDCanecutter

[bernorange 8359]

That gives a whole new meaning to "bugging out".  Thanks for sharing.

[RDCanecutter 26377]

9 minutes ago, bernorange said:

That gives a whole new meaning to "bugging out".  Thanks for sharing.

It was fun. I realized that I'd had weeks and weeks of "work days," even when I don't work all that hard. It was good to have a dedicated fun day. Plus there's just no substitute for getting out and seeing stuff in person.

[RDCanecutter 26377]

The Great Alabama Coin Recon Recap

Apologies to Hank Williams Sr. and his friends and family. He did not pass away on US 31 headed to Nashville. He was way up in the East Tennessee-Bristol VA area, so I am guessing US 11 but don't know. Maybe US 31 was for happier times because it was the main route from his home-base in Montgomery to Nashville.

In his own precious-metal fashion, Hank returned in a silver coffin to his mother's boarding house in Montgomery for what may have been the largest funeral in the state before or since. My dad, a fan, was there. "I saw him on the stage and in the casket."

The metal all weighed out to proper specs, and I don't see any reason to worry about that. It brightened up nicely when I did the baking-soda-aluminum-foil-and-hot-water trick, a non-abrasive non-toxic way to transfer tarnish away. If you want a demo on how to do it, ask and I will show.

The Samurai is the sort of thing I used to flog on eBay for about double spot, mainly just to drive views to the hundreds of other collectibles I had listed. But by itself it would hardly be worth it even if I got 40 bucks, with fees and such it might be $5 profit for an hour's work. I'll throw it in a drawer and let my son sell it to get whatever he wants one day.

Buffalo really brightened up, Onza is spectacular and brings me joy. Faux-Peace-Dollar is still fugly, it'll be the first to sell if I need some cash. 90% is just 90%, bless its heart. I guess you'd still get Secret Service protection if somebody tried to make fakes.

Edited April 2 by RDCanecutter

[Superhero 8827]

I think it's time to trade in more silver for gold. In the past 3 months, silver prices have beat gold prices by 5%, but the motivation is to get rid of weight. Looking to get rid of my bars and Eagles (gasp!) and pick up more gold maples and sovereigns.

Maybe I AM / WILL BE the Wally Fairway of PMs. 

[RDCanecutter 26377]

9 minutes ago, Superhero said:

I think it's time to trade in more silver for gold. In the past 3 months, silver prices have beat gold prices by 5%, but the motivation is to get rid of weight. Looking to get rid of my bars and Eagles (gasp!) and pick up more gold maples and sovereigns.

Maybe I AM / WILL BE the Wally Fairway of PMs. 

Remember to retain enough Mercury Dimes to barter with, which we will need in a future Thunder Dome world, I am told.

Never mind that 95% of Americans now don't know what a Mercury Dime is. 

[Armybrat 40818]

15 hours ago, RDCanecutter said:

Remember to retain enough Mercury Dimes to barter with, which we will need in a future Thunder Dome world, I am told.

Never mind that 95% of Americans now don't know what a Mercury Dime is. 

The one with Freddie’s face on it?

[bernorange 8359]

Zimbabwe has announced they will be replacing their existing fiat currency (ZW) with a gold standard currency (ZiG) backed by a basket of gold and USD:

https://www.pmbug.com/threads/zimbabwe-made-gold-legal-tender-and-reintroduces-gold-standard.4966/post-98582

 

[RDCanecutter 26377]

3 hours ago, bernorange said:

Zimbabwe has announced they will be replacing their existing fiat currency (ZW) with a gold standard currency (ZiG) backed by a basket of gold and USD:

https://www.pmbug.com/threads/zimbabwe-made-gold-legal-tender-and-reintroduces-gold-standard.4966/post-98582

 

Last I heard about Zimbabwe, people were panning gold all day until they had enough to sell the flakes to eat. Then I ran into a couple of Zimbabwean dudes eating in a nice restaurant here, didn't look like they had a care in the world.

I suppose the place is part of the 90% of Planet Earth where you're either aristocracy, or else you grub in the mud to live.

[RDCanecutter 26377]

Dang ol man I tell you what man, if gold and silver keep climbing, I'm gonna have to start collecting Indian Head Cents again just so I can afford to hang out in a coin shop.

[bernorange 8359]

 

[crash_davis 23096]

Wife: What do you need from Costco?

Me: $10,000 in gold and silver, please.

 

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/costco-gold-bar-sales-inflation-silver-coins-2024/

The warehouse club has seen a spike in sales ever since it began selling 1-ounce bars of 24-karat gold last September. With the gold bullion selling out faster than the store could replenish its stock, the discount giant in January added silver coins to its offerings of precious metals. 

According to a recent estimate from Wells Fargo, the members-only retailer now sells $100 million to $200 million worth of gold and silver a month. The burgeoning business comes as the price of gold is reaching new heights.  

Sales have climbed partly because of "Costco's aggressive pricing and high level of customer trust," Edward Kelly, a Wells Fargo equity analyst, said in a research note. "The accelerating frequency of Reddit posts, quick online sell-outs of product, and Costco's robust monthly eCommerce sales suggests a sharp uptick in momentum since the launch."

[Pimphand 5732]

44 year cup & handle broke this week...

[Pimphand 5732]

This time it's different...
 

 

[Armybrat 40818]

On 4/8/2024 at 1:20 PM, RDCanecutter said:

Dang ol man I tell you what man, if gold and silver keep climbing, I'm gonna have to start collecting Indian Head Cents again just so I can afford to hang out in a coin shop.

Guess my WW2 era steel pennies are just gonna rust away. 
But I do have a Planter’s Peanut can full of wheat Pennies somewhere in the back of a shelf in the safe.

 

Edited April 12 by Armybrat

[RDCanecutter 26377]

11 minutes ago, Armybrat said:

Guess my WW2 era steel pennies are just gonna rust away. 
But I do have a Planter’s Peanut can full of wheat Pennies somewhere in the back of a shelf in the safe.

 

A friend who buys and sells silver and gold all day has one coin hobby-- pennies. He doesn't care if they're rare or not, he just likes them.

[Armybrat 40818]

My Dad had a can full of Mexican Un Centavo pennies (all pre-1960s) but my brother got that.

Edited April 12 by Armybrat

[RDCanecutter 26377]

1 minute ago, Armybrat said:

My Dad had a can full of Mexican Un Centavo pennies, but my brother got that.

Love the old Mexican stuff. In olden days they allowed people with copper mines to stamp out their own centavos. Probably bought a dollar's worth of stuff back then. Bang bang bang, knockin out the money.

[RDCanecutter 26377]

Anybody remember what their first piece of gold or silver was? I am talking coins, rounds, or ingots, not class rings or such.

I have a hazy memory of buying a Mercury Dime from a dealer for 40 cents in the late 70s. Woulda meant spot was 5-6 dollars? I soon got a retail job where I occasionally got them in the till and "bought" them for a newer dime. I didn't even think about them being silver-- I just liked them because they were different. No telling how many silver Roosevelt Dimes and silver Quarters slipped through my fingers because I didn't check.

For silver bullion I think it was 2011, local shop had Libertads at 36, I got them to knock a dollar or two off by buying several. I was blessed with poverty so I wasn't able to buy more at that price.

About a year later, first gold coin was a Dos Pesos, paid maybe 80 bucks after gold was getting lower, same dude I had bought the Libertads from, the minute I said I wanted gold his whole attitude to me changed, I had been an obnoxious silver haggle-monkey but now I was a Gentleman.

And you?

[Armybrat 40818]

Mine was this 1852 $1 gold coin (bottom center) my Grandma kept in the back of her cafe cash register starting in the 1930s when FDR went off the gold standard. 
when the cafe was sold along with Grandpa's auto repair garage in 1958, she gave it to me - and I eventually inherited her cash register.

 

 

Edited April 12 by Armybrat

[pantone159 719]

I don't remember my first silver (probably a Mercury dime though), but my first real numismatic/collectible thing was this $20 note from the Republic of Texas. I think it cost me $25 in US dollars, 40 years ago or so.

 

[bernorange 8359]

My first silver was a 10oz Johnson Matthey bar I bought when I was around 12 years old.

[RDCanecutter 26377]

13 hours ago, bernorange said:

My first silver was a 10oz Johnson Matthey bar I bought when I was around 12 years old.

Hard core.

Probably cost about 60 bucks too, am I right?

[bernorange 8359]

I don't recall exactly.  I have a vague idea that it was around $80 or so.  One of the first (big) things I ever bought with my own money (aside from bubble gum and whatnot).

[RDCanecutter 26377]

48 minutes ago, bernorange said:

I don't recall exactly.  I have a vague idea that it was around $80 or so.  One of the first (big) things I ever bought with my own money (aside from bubble gum and whatnot).

by contrast, I have a vague memory of being given a 50-cent piece by my Grandmother, who was very coin-savvy, and being told it was special and to hang onto it. Maybe a Franklin or something? So of course I pedaled down to Mr. Griffin's store and busted it up for comic books and candy. He asked me if I really wanted to spend it, sure I did, so he took it but kept it in the register until my Mom was in there later, and he swapped it back to her. 

I was judged Non Compos Mentis by Gramama and she waited almost ten years before she gave me another vintage coin, a silver dollar. I still have it.

[Pimphand 5732]

LOL

 

[Pimphand 5732]

Who did this??? ;-)

[RDCanecutter 26377]

Back in the 90s my girlfriend inherited what must have been a 100oz brick of silver. At the time I thought silver was the dumbest thing you could buy, and I am sure I said so. (Meanwhile, I used my $ to drink the Crown and Anchor dry.)

She was nervous about how to store it. I convinced her to wrap it in fabric and use it as a doorstop.

I hope she still had it when silver hit 45/oz.

[CleverNickname 1308]

I'm getting my 6th shipment of silver bouillon this week from a $100/mo plan. They ship when it hits 10 coins, a half tube. So thats 3 tubes (I think 62 buffalos since sometimes the math adds up to 11 in a shipment). Don't really notice the money, but building the stack deeper bit by bit. 

[Pimphand 5732]

4 hours ago, CleverNickname said:

I'm getting my 6th shipment of silver bouillon this week from a $100/mo plan. They ship when it hits 10 coins, a half tube. So thats 3 tubes (I think 62 buffalos since sometimes the math adds up to 11 in a shipment). Don't really notice the money, but building the stack deeper bit by bit. 

We in the game like to call this dollar cost averaging!