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BurntOrange&White

By BurntOrange&White
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Funk Doctor Spock

Funk Doctor Spock 13292

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, dec3169 said:

Nolan Ryan.  5,714 strikeouts.  7 no hitters, and this glorious moment in history...

I was at that game as a kid. I remember it vividly. Ryan signed mine and my cousin's ball before the game. I was young, but I remember it. It was surreal. It's a memory you don't ever forget. Nolan is the goat, imo. Dude is just built different. 

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Posted
Posted
16 hours ago, Vertigo said:

All of that and you didn't mention Saban's Alabama? Where can I send a strongly worded letter?

Alabama is basically the old Russian hockey team... just with a higher payroll.

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Wulaw Horn

Wulaw Horn 19599

Posted
Posted (edited)
19 hours ago, Randolph Duke said:

Modern players (such as DeChambeau) impart far more force on the solid-core balls used on tour today. In past eras, there were probably plenty of golfers who could have prospered with the same approach, but the reason players such as DeChambeau can use that technique and the earlier players couldn't is that a high-impact mis-hit with a modern solid-core ball imparts no penalty whereas a high-impact mis-hit on a balata could easily damage the ball, causing the ball to fly errantly. Thus, strength was less of an advantage.

Lower the clubhead speed/ lower the launch speed, raise the spin rate (balatas spun faster than modern balls), and a different set of skills prevails.

Tiger probably would have done ok with older equipment. Tiger has shown an ability to completely reinvent his swing over time. He is one of the few golfers who has done this repeatedly and maintained an ability to compete at a high level. Tiger is far more of a technician than DeChambeau.

Give Bobby Jones the ability to just rip at every drive, not having to protect from a high-impact mis-hit, and his skill set and ability to craft shots from all distances would have allowed him to dominate today's game.

To go back to my boxing discussion, Jack Johnson could have easily switched to 12 round fights and 10 oz gloves and been a champion. I'm not sure Floyd Mayweather could have switched to no gloves and 25 round fights and still be as successful. Asserting Mayweather is a "greater" boxer than Johnson or Ali is difficult to accept.

At the end of the day, today's athletes are stronger, faster and more massive in size. Where sheer strength is concerned give me any of today's athletes over his counterpart of the past. For the skill positions and skill sports as auto racing or golf, competitors in years past were probably better than most of today's. Take golf.

If the challenge is banging a 5-iron close to the pin with an absolutely brutal hangover, I'll take Dow Finsterwald every time. If we are just going tee-to-green for 72 holes with today's equipment, I'll take Bryson DeChambeau and watch it all in the clubhouse, banging out cocktails with Finsterwald.

You are as bad at this as you are about talking about the Texas board of regents and coaching changes and everything else you opine on that’s not directly related to shitting all over aggy. 
Golfers play in the context of their time. Period. The greats would be great no matter what the era. BDC would be awesome and as good relative to his peers as he is right now regardless of any of that nonsense you keep talking about, bc they’d all be playing with the same shit he is. 
You should really feel ashamed that you can’t see how stupid your own argument is that you persist in making. I never neg any but the worst of trolls but shit- have one here for persisting in being a moron. 

Edited by Wulaw Horn
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Zeus

Zeus 6879

Posted
Posted
On 2/11/2021 at 9:27 AM, Thiefery said:

I would love for Boxing to have a run of it's Golden Era of Heavyweights that the 70's produced.

There's only 1 Heavyweight, he's a freak of nature but also the most skilled HW in a long long time.

Issue is he's going to be fighting a weightlifter and he just beat up a football player. There's no other boxers anywhere close to him.

960x0.jpg?fit=scale

 

Also for MMA we have seen an entirely new sport rise up and the great ones with that. It's basically replaced boxing. 

 

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Thiefery

Thiefery 5112

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Zeus said:

There's only 1 Heavyweight, he's a freak of nature but also the most skilled HW in a long long time.

Issue is he's going to be fighting a weightlifter and he just beat up a football player. There's no other boxers anywhere close to him.

960x0.jpg?fit=scale

 

Also for MMA we have seen an entirely new sport rise up and the great ones with that. It's basically replaced boxing. 

 

i can't get into MMA at all.. I used to enjoy the ultimate fighter show 15 years ago..but could never get into the sport.  Heavyweights now have a new division as well.. I hope before my time on earth is done that another 70's ish heavyweight division comes back again..  We started to have one in the late 80s to mid 90s

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Zeus

Zeus 6879

Posted
Posted
14 minutes ago, Thiefery said:

i can't get into MMA at all.. I used to enjoy the ultimate fighter show 15 years ago..but could never get into the sport.  Heavyweights now have a new division as well.. I hope before my time on earth is done that another 70's ish heavyweight division comes back again..  We started to have one in the late 80s to mid 90s

Yeah I don't know if it's ever going to be totally mainstream entertainment for a casual fan, I used to do some ju jitsu in HS so I can appreciate the rolling. 

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BabaYaga

BabaYaga 15631

Posted
Posted

MMA - the Gracie family.  I would argue they are the single most influential family in the history of martial arts (Sorry Bruce...).  They revolutionized MMA in a way that I can't think of having been repeated in any other sport.  To have Royce, the "runt" of the litter dominate every single opponent for years.  Unreal.  Nothing has been that devastatingly effective; and that was back when you fought multiple times a night.

It's a true "martial art" in that a much smaller person can defeat a larger one.  Despite what everyone says, this is rarely true with striking arts.  There is no "punchers chance" with BJJ.  You will never in your life feel as helpless as getting wrapped up by a superior BJJ practitioner.  You are as helpless as a child.  

Helio, back in the day would fight ANYONE and dominated them all:  boxers, strikers, wrestlers, etc.  

*the 3 point line was added by the league, not a single team or player.  As was the shot clock to add excitement to the game.  

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shadow_operative

shadow_operative 15932

Posted
Posted (edited)

Floyd Mayweather is nowhere near the conversation for boxing GOAT. one of the greatest defensive fighters ever, sure. but he's a borderline top 20 fighter in my book. Sugar Ray Robinson is the GOAT, and there's at least a dozen (if not two dozen) other guys i'm naming before I say "Mayweather". 

Edited by shadow_operative
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Michael Knight

Michael Knight 13239

Posted
Posted
On 2/11/2021 at 8:46 AM, Huckleberry said:

This is a silly post. Imagine yourself 50 years ago. It's 1971 and you would think the exact same thing because you have no idea what the next 50 years will bring.

Everyone in every generation will think they got to see the best at some point during the last 40 years. Somebody in 1971 would be thankful they got to see Bill Russell and Wilt Chamberlain, the best basketball players of all time. Because they were in 1971. And so on for every sport.

Boxing is dead, there will never be an era like the golden age of heavyweights during Ali's time

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Michael Knight

Michael Knight 13239

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Posted
29 minutes ago, Helobious said:

50-0 and he’s not even in the convo for best boxer ever?

The lack of respect shown for Derek Jeter in the baseball discussion is concerning. 
 

 

Mayweather might be great but we'll never know because he doesn't fight anyone worth anything. Ali had to beat Liston who was considered unbeatable, Floyd Patterson Joe Frazier and George Foreman all of them considered some of the greatest heavyweights of all time. Similar to golf after tiger the field is so much deeper than other eras

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Michael Knight

Michael Knight 13239

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, BurntOrange&White said:

Boxing fucked itself over. There are two many titles and companies involved. Plus the whole Showtime/HBO bullshit where you rarely get the best fighters fighting in their prime anymore. It's annoying.

Football killed boxing, that and corruption and injury. Ali would probably be a tight end today if he grew up now he'd probably become a basketball player

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Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, Michael Knight said:

Football killed boxing, that and corruption and injury. Ali would probably be a tight end today if he grew up now he'd probably become a basketball player

The administrators and promoters of boxing killed boxing.

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Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Michael Knight said:

The public killed it, people stopped caring just like horse racing

My family loved boxing.  Friday night fights mattered.We watched the big bouts like any other great sporting event.

Then we lost access.  The sport didn’t change.  The people running it did.

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ztejas

ztejas 44285

Posted
Posted
6 hours ago, Wulaw Horn said:

You are as bad at this as you are about talking about the Texas board of regents and coaching changes and everything else you opine on that’s not directly related to shitting all over aggy. 
Golfers play in the context of their time. Period. The greats would be great no matter what the era. BDC would be awesome and as good relative to his peers as he is right now regardless of any of that nonsense you keep talking about, bc they’d all be playing with the same shit he is. 
You should really feel ashamed that you can’t see how stupid your own argument is that you persist in making. I never neg any but the worst of trolls but shit- have one here for persisting in being a moron. 

I'm more directing this at RD - but Bryson won a US Am and NCAA individual title before he ever started chasing distance. He'd be fine in any era. Saying Tiger is far more of a technician is ridiculous. They are both very cerebral players but Bryson is literally trying to re-engineer golf. Tiger played loose and hit the shit out of the ball and holed everything in his prime. He was a better athlete and more talented than everyone on tour for a decade. 

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BurntOrange&White

BurntOrange&White 42008

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Michael Knight said:

MMA is a fringe sport that does not compare to prize fighting at is peak

MMA hasn't even reached it's peak IMO.

9 minutes ago, Michael Knight said:

What fights did you want? Name a heavyweight after the 90s. American kids stopped growing up wanting to be boxers they went to other sports

 

Why does it have to be heavyweight in your eyes? 

 

Mayweather/Pacquiao 5 years prior

Mayweather/Paul Williams

Mayweather/Margorito

Roy Jones Jr vs Dariusz Michalczewski

Oscar de la Hoya vs Kostya Tszyu

 Lennox Lewis vs Riddick Bowe

Mike Tyson vs. Riddick Bowe

Juan Manuel Marquez vs. Erik Morales

Felix Trinidad vs. Shane Mosley

 

 

Edited by BurntOrange&White
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Michael Knight

Michael Knight 13239

Posted
Posted
33 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

MMA hasn't even reached it's peak IMO.

 

Why does it have to be heavyweight in your eyes? 

 

Mayweather/Pacquiao 5 years prior

Mayweather/Paul Williams

Mayweather/Margorito

Roy Jones Jr vs Dariusz Michalczewski

Oscar de la Hoya vs Kostya Tszyu

 Lennox Lewis vs Riddick Bowe

Mike Tyson vs. Riddick Bowe

Juan Manuel Marquez vs. Erik Morales

Felix Trinidad vs. Shane Mosley

 

 

Except for Mayweather and Pacquiao all of those guys reached their peak in the 90's. And asking why heavyweight is like asking why NFL not CFL, Heavyweight prize fighting was the king of sports in America for years. As soon as good heavyweights disappeared all boxing had left was the true fans like slorch.

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BurntOrange&White

BurntOrange&White 42008

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Posted
13 minutes ago, Michael Knight said:

Except for Mayweather and Pacquiao all of those guys reached their peak in the 90's. And asking why heavyweight is like asking why NFL not CFL, Heavyweight prize fighting was the king of sports in America for years. As soon as good heavyweights disappeared all boxing had left was the true fans like slorch.

Not really. It sounds like you’re trying to push your narrative and don’t want to hear the actual truth. Which is what slorch and I are saying. Trust me, I don’t want to agree with slorch but it’s the reality of that sport. Has nothing to do with heavy weights 

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Gucci_Suit

Gucci_Suit 2829

Posted
Posted (edited)

We also got to witness:

-the Alabama/Lsu rematch

-a billion ou conferece championships

-a billion bullshit pass interference calls and few that should have been called and were not

-nba super teams

-college basketball super teams

-the demise of heavy weight boxing 

-Luis Suarez

-Manti Teo

-Bubba Watson

-Joey chesnutt

-No relevant American male tennis player since early 90’s

-Cowboys suck

-Scott Derry

-covid

-random STDs

-Boston professional sports dominance 

-Do people care about racing?

Edited by Gucci_Suit
The std one was just personal. Sorry
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bmbmd

bmbmd 1040

Posted
Posted

Not only was Bill Russell in the running for best big man ever, he is also a world class grandfather.  Many years ago, he and his granddaughter were in front of my daughter and I at Disney's Tomorrowland Speedway.  His knees were up around his shoulders.  They finished, he extracted his almost seven foot frame from that tiny little car, looked at me sheepishly, shook his head, and said "Kids".

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Poolflood

Poolflood 845

Posted
Posted
On 2/11/2021 at 7:33 AM, BurntOrange&White said:

To grow up in the era we have grown up in with regards to sports. We were able to witness true GOAT's of their sport go at it. Especially those born in the 70s/80s

 

Football: Tom Brady, Joe Montana, Emmitt Smith breaking the all time rushing record, the patriots dynasty which in the age of free agency might be the most impressive dynasty ever. All of Jerry Rice's records for receiving.  Lawrence Taylor on the defensive side of the ball. 

Basketball: Michael Jordan and LeBron James, what more could you say?

Baseball: No one will touch Babe Ruth in this department I don't think except maybe the likes of Mike Trout. Barry Bonds breaking Hank Aaron's record. The greatest closer of all time, Mariano Rivera. 

Tennis: Serena Williams, Roger Federer, and Rafael Nadal

Golf: Tiger Woods and now the current crop of players. I think current crop is the best overall field ever in golf.

NHL: Wayne Gretzky, Mario Lemieux.

Olympics: Usain Bolt, Michael Phelps, 

NASCAR: Jimmie Johnson, Dale Earnhardt

Boxing: Mike Tyson, Floyd Mayweather

Soccer: Lionel Messi, Christiano Rinaldo, Mia Hamm, Marta

College Football: The greatest national championship/game of all time, Texas vs USC. Vince Young. 2001 Miami Hurricanes/2005 Texas.

 

 

 

 

 

Aside from Earl and VY, it was Woods and way back Borg at Wimbledon.  Both pulled off shots that nobody else had, or even dreamed of having.

Great thread

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dcar00

dcar00 14995

Posted
Posted
On 2/11/2021 at 11:49 AM, Randolph Duke said:

Modern players (such as DeChambeau) impart far more force on the solid-core balls used on tour today. In past eras, there were probably plenty of golfers who could have prospered with the same approach, but the reason players such as DeChambeau can use that technique and the earlier players couldn't is that a high-impact mis-hit with a modern solid-core ball imparts no penalty whereas a high-impact mis-hit on a balata could easily damage the ball, causing the ball to fly errantly. Thus, strength was less of an advantage.

Lower the clubhead speed/ lower the launch speed, raise the spin rate (balatas spun faster than modern balls), and a different set of skills prevails.

Tiger probably would have done ok with older equipment. Tiger has shown an ability to completely reinvent his swing over time. He is one of the few golfers who has done this repeatedly and maintained an ability to compete at a high level. Tiger is far more of a technician than DeChambeau.

Give Bobby Jones the ability to just rip at every drive, not having to protect from a high-impact mis-hit, and his skill set and ability to craft shots from all distances would have allowed him to dominate today's game.

To go back to my boxing discussion, Jack Johnson could have easily switched to 12 round fights and 10 oz gloves and been a champion. I'm not sure Floyd Mayweather could have switched to no gloves and 25 round fights and still be as successful. Asserting Mayweather is a "greater" boxer than Johnson or Ali is difficult to accept.

At the end of the day, today's athletes are stronger, faster and more massive in size. Where sheer strength is concerned give me any of today's athletes over his counterpart of the past. For the skill positions and skill sports as auto racing or golf, competitors in years past were probably better than most of today's. Take golf.

If the challenge is banging a 5-iron close to the pin with an absolutely brutal hangover, I'll take Dow Finsterwald every time. If we are just going tee-to-green for 72 holes with today's equipment, I'll take Bryson DeChambeau and watch it all in the clubhouse, banging out cocktails with Finsterwald.

In the Nicklaus/Palmer/Player era the one thing to remember is they didn't really have the green books and ability to have caddy really mark the course pre rounds with the tech.  I wish the players didn't have those green books.  It kinda takes the art out of the game IMO.

the technology in the clubs and the balls and the coaching does make the broad field stronger than in Nicklaus' day.  that said it takes nothing away from Tiger.  his 10 year prime was the best 10 year run in the history of golf.

I'd take Nicklaus but I can understand why people pick Tiger.

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JerrysJheriCurl

JerrysJheriCurl 977

Posted
Posted

Off the top of my head, I can add just two for each sport that haven’t been mentioned (or I may have overlooked):

NFL: Barry Sanders, Lawrence Taylor 

CFB: Tommie Frazier, Bo Jackson

MLB: Pete Rose, Greg Maddux 

NBA: Jerry West (he’s on the damn logo for a reason), Julius Erving 

Tennis: Arthur Ashe, Martina Navratilova

Boxing: Joe Louis, Rocky Marciano

Hockey: Mario LeMieux, Mark Messier 

Golf: Ben Hogan, Gary Player

Soccer: Garrincha, Gigi Buffon

Olympics: Jim Thorpe, Carl Lewis 

BTW Jackie Robinson lettered in 4-sports at UCLA. That’s unreal.

And speaking of Olympics ... this Olympian broke the Olympic record of the 200 in 1936... and only Placed silver, .4 seconds behind Jesse Owens. 

When he returned back home to states, in Pasadena, there wasn’t much glory or celebration for him, other than his family and friends. The only job he could get when he returned was to be a street sweeper.

That man was Mack Robinson... Jackie’s older brother.

The more you know...

 

 

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n64ra

n64ra 1150

Posted
Posted
On 2/11/2021 at 11:36 AM, BurntOrange&White said:

I was referencing years gen x/millennials grew up in.

In the MLB row you started off with "No one will touch Babe Ruth in this department..." so I figured a guy from the 60s would be eligible for discussion.

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