Horrific DFW crash

[cmontexas 3377]

36 minutes ago, mchookem said:

for real? yikes 😟

No actually the guy I was talking about was in the video of the Fedex truck that goes airborne. I cant figure out where that guy comes from in the FB video posted above

[cmontexas 3377]

Took 820 around the city because 35 still shutdown and there was a double trailer Ben E Keith truck going probably 80 riding somebody's ass in the middle lane. 

 

Save us Elon

[dcar00 14994]

should semi's be allowed in the express lanes?  this seems like a really bad idea.

[Guest]

11 hours ago, HOOK'EMHOOAH said:

This is bad. Very bad.

 

A lesson I learned long ago is that slow is smooth, smooth is fast. It doesn't matter where you are going if you'll never reach your destination.

Drive on ice like you're in a bathtub half full of water and the goal is not to slosh any water over the edge.

No quicky sudden horseshit moves...

[cmontexas 3377]

2 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

should semi's be allowed in the express lanes?  this seems like a really bad idea.

Those express lanes are heavily commercial traffic, their companies pay the bill because it the the only way to get from 35 north to 820 without being standstill traffic. Its expensive too. My tolltag charges about 40 dollars a week to take that thing both ways everyday. Theres a city government rant in there somewhere 

[Pato del Muerto 53571]

Driving on clean ice without studded tires is asking for trouble. Those people falling in the video sbbruin posted should have the slip on studs on their shoes. 
 

I wonder how large the ice patch was on 35 when that went down, and if it had been frozen long and others were lucky that no car ahead had issues that required braking, until one did. 

[SquishMitten 10497]

Those express lanes are heavily commercial traffic, their companies pay the bill because it the the only way to get from 35 north to 820 without being standstill traffic. Its expensive too. My tolltag charges about 40 dollars a week to take that thing both ways everyday. Theres a city government rant in there somewhere 

$40 to take it both ways seems like a steal if one were into that kind of thing

[MNLonghornFUKM 8985]

Those express lanes are heavily commercial traffic, their companies pay the bill because it the the only way to get from 35 north to 820 without being standstill traffic. Its expensive too. My tolltag charges about 40 dollars a week to take that thing both ways everyday. Theres a city government rant in there somewhere 

Plus everything is electronic logs, so if you’re stuck in traffic burning precious time for deliveries, its impossible to fudge your logs like you can with paper logs.

[FartingMonk 3627]

9 hours ago, midtown said:

Not going to lie.  When I saw that FedEx trailer go sailing I wondered about an order I am waiting on.  Going to hell.  Ill save you all a seat.

I thought the same thing

[CHIEF 5228]

33 minutes ago, FartingMonk said:

I thought the same thing

Me too. I hate myself. When I saw that FJ obliterated, it makes me think, "if I knew that was coming, I would have unbuckled and ran". It's just a greater lesson in teaching you to slow down and drive in the right lane. Maybe wear some cleats for the grassy areas. that was really tough to watch. Once was more than enough.

CHIEF

Edited February 12, 2021 by CHIEF

[RPM 26668]

1 hour ago, texas08 said:

Fuck all this. A few fucking heads at TXDOT need to roll. WHAT THE FUCK!!!!


And by roll, I mean jailed.

Just watched CBS 10pm news and found out TxDOT does not maintain or treat the Express lanes. The toll company does. They claim they treated them on Tuesday. It obviously wasn't enough because the toll lanes were the only ones that froze. There's going to be a huge investigation.

[BluTechsan 394]

Watched one of the news stations drone footage of the cleanup operation. From the drone view it appears as those some vehicles did manage to stop because it looks like there were 3 distinct pileups - unless those "gaps"  were where vehicles had already been removed prior to the drone footage.

 

Just horrible all the way around. I can't imagine what it must have been like just sitting there waiting for impact with no options to do anything about it. I'm dumbfounded how the death toll is so low. 

 

And I agree with what many have already said, the ice had nothing to do with the speeds those trucks were going. There's no excuse for it whatsoever. They should have been creeping along. 

 

[RPM 26668]

2 hours ago, BluTechsan said:

I'm dumbfounded how the death toll is so low. 

Modern car construction. The survivability they have achieved is astounding.

[safe sex 12039]

Surviving this wreck will be worse than dying for at least a couple of drivers/passengers.

[naija 3064]

Have to co-sign what's been said about DFW driving. When you live there, it might not seem so terrible, and I remember once I moved out, I used to talk about how fast we drove in Dallas. But distance, age and seeing what motor vehicle trauma looks like up close and personal have made me quite anxious about driving in Dallas when I come back now. The speed on the highways, at all times, is ludicrous. People seriously overestimate their ability to counter the natural laws of Physics. You can be doing 75-80 mph and there will still be someone tailgating you and riding your ass telling you to speed up or get out of the way.  This shit is just not worth it.

As for driving in ice or bad weather; snow tires might not have made a difference here, but those things can be a lifesaver otherwise. It took one spinout in a new Audi SUV for me to order a different set of tires specifically for snow that we rotate as the seasons change. Having to store them is expensive, but still cheaper than even a minor fender bender and certainly cheaper than any visit to the hospital. 

[52-80 19377]

Trey already pointed out the location, and others of you may have already scouted it

Here's a about 10 football fields before where the pileup occured: you go around a curve and up the bridge, so its blind on the other side.  the condition was completely "normal" leading up to that point because of thermal mass.  by the time you get up the crest, THEN you see the pileup, AND now it starts to ice, AND you're going downhill.  perfect recipe for disaster. 

the pileup occured where the red circular building is on the left hand side.

 

https://www.google.com/maps/@32.791758,-97.322051,3a,75y,180.08h,83.98t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sg-a7qDzuQtPg9MHl71mHiw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

 

[52-80 19377]

1 minute ago, naija said:

Have to co-sign what's been said about DFW driving. When you live there, it might not seem so terrible, and I remember once I moved out, I used to talk about how fast we drove in Dallas. But distance, age and seeing what motor vehicle trauma looks like up close and personal have made me quite anxious about driving in Dallas when I come back now. The speed on the highways, at all times, is ludicrous. People seriously overestimate their ability to counter the natural laws of Physics. You can be doing 75-80 mph and there will still be someone tailgating you and riding your ass telling you to speed up or get out of the way.  This shit is just not worth it.

As for driving in ice or bad weather; snow tires might not have made a difference here, but those things can be a lifesaver otherwise. It took one spinout in a new Audi SUV for me to order a different set of tires specifically for snow that we rotate as the seasons change. Having to store them is expensive, but still cheaper than even a minor fender bender and certainly cheaper than any visit to the hospital. 

DFW driving is easily the worst in the country, a notch worse than Houston.  The fact that freeways are 4, 5 lanes wide with exits every mile and left-handed splits invite people to zig zag all across the road. 

Can't blame people on the tires though.  There being occurrence of snow or even sub 32* one day out of every 5 years (?) is not justification for shodding winter tires or - worse - studs.  This was a very much freak occurrence. 

[midtown 3355]

People in Dallas drive crazy fast. I find Houston to be decent. San Antonio is this all day

[RPM 26668]

DFW traffic has gotten exponentially worse in the last 10-15 years. The solution of adding toll lanes was not the answer. People saying DFW is worse than Houston have never driven the Katy Freeway or I-45.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

9 hours ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

You can’t laugh at freezing rain. If it’s 2-5 inches of snow and compact snow/ice/shit... sure, we’ll laugh. I’ll take a week of 40 below followed by an 8 inch blizzard vs driving one day in an ice storm.

those semi drivers were fucking terrible considering it’s what they do for a living and the 5+ tests they need to even pass to get their job.


Just be thankful a tanker wasn’t one of the trucks.  Mixing gas, and the drugs too many of those guys use to stay awake would have been the icing on the cake.

Fuck !!

[Doc Reeves 6434]

Still rough out this morning. Stay safe everyone 

[52-80 19377]

8 minutes ago, RPM said:

DFW traffic has gotten exponentially worse in the last 10-15 years. The solution of adding toll lanes was not the answer. People saying DFW is worse than Houston have never driven the Katy Freeway or I-45.

talking about driving behavior, not traffic/congestion tho

[RPM 26668]

This is going to wind up being the fault of North Tarrant Express for failing to properly treat the road surface. Spraying it with saltwater 2 days earlier wasn't enough. It needed more than that. The toll lanes were the only ones that froze.

[RPM 26668]

8 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

talking about driving behavior, not traffic/congestion tho

Oh, if that's the case Houston is far worse.

[Bevo 13906]

Austin must have taken a hint. All the freeways were shut down this morning.

[phdhorn 6225]

Yeah, but not before the damage was done:
 

Midnight-08:30 #ATCEMSMedics have responded to 39 primary collisions as well as multiple secondary collisions at those incidents along with 2 environmental exposure calls.

Stay home if you can. Avoid unnecessary travel especially on elevated roads. pic.twitter.com/yl3xwA1uDb

— ATCEMS (@ATCEMS) February 12, 2021

[Constant 6902]

9 hours ago, RPM said:

Just watched CBS 10pm news and found out TxDOT does not maintain or treat the Express lanes. The toll company does. They claim they treated them on Tuesday. It obviously wasn't enough because the toll lanes were the only ones that froze. There's going to be a huge investigation.

Not necessarily 100% true. In the original post video you can see vehicles slipping in the main lanes, too. Pre-treated highways froze up all the same. 

[RPM 26668]

10 minutes ago, Constant said:

Not necessarily 100% true. In the original post video you can see vehicles slipping in the main lanes, too. Pre-treated highways froze up all the same. 

You saying an additional treatment closer to the event wouldn't have made a difference? There was some ice patches on 35, but the TxDOT treated bridges didn't freeze. There also should have been some sanding done on all the lanes. Just because we only get ice semi annually doesn't mean we shouldn't be prepared. This smells of profit over maintenance.

TxDot has been low balling maintenance for the last several years. Case in point, they let a busy intersection at TX114 & US377 go for so long the paint eroded completely. When they finally repainted, they didn't know where the traffic lanes were and totally f'd up the intersection routing through traffic off to the service road. They had to sandblast the new paint and hand draw the traffic pattern.  This is what you get when you put beancounters in charge.

Edited February 12, 2021 by RPM

[Constant 6902]

1 minute ago, RPM said:

You saying an additional treatment closer to the event wouldn't have made a difference? There was some ice patches on 35, but the TxDOT treated bridges didn't freeze. There also should have been some sanding done on all the lanes. Just because we only get ice semi annually doesn't mean we shouldn't be prepared. This smells of profit over maintenance.

Sure it could help. TxDOT treated highways and bridges did freeze. Bridges in my division that were pre-treated froze exactly the same as untreated. I don’t know if they did it too soon or what, but it did not work. 
 

The reactive nature of the sand having to be laid on top of the ice always leads to a huge fucking bottle neck. I waited well over two-hours for a sand truck yesterday. There aren’t enough sand trucks for the demand in these events. Wish they could convert other equipment into sand trucks for these big weather events. It is certainly frustrating. 

[RPM 26668]

11 minutes ago, Constant said:

The reactive nature of the sand having to be laid on top of the ice always leads to a huge fucking bottle neck. I waited well over two-hours for a sand truck yesterday. There aren’t enough sand trucks for the demand in these events. Wish they could convert other equipment into sand trucks for these big weather events. It is certainly frustrating. 

I agree we are under prepared for these events given our location, but that doesn't excuse not being properly prepared. TxDot and the other maint groups have come to heavily rely on using a sodium solution because its cheap, easy and relatively effective. But the treatment you give a FM road might not be as effective on an interstate, especially in a metro area. 20/35/45/635/820 should look like a dirt county road on elevated areas, but that ain't cheap or easy.

Edited February 12, 2021 by RPM

[BabaYaga 15631]

Jesus, what a horrific mess.  Decades back I was driving a 2WD truck with a manual transmission and so-so tires from Coppell to Odessa.  Horrible ice storm (early 2000's?).  I come up on the Lake Worth bridge and it's a sheet of ice.  Immediately start to fish tail, put in the clutch and just coast and it starts to straighten out.

Then I see an 18-wheeler in the rear view mirror hit the same ice.  And it's getting closer and close.  Blares his horn as he can't stop either.  I can't accelerate or stop.  Just steer.   Both made it to the other side and there was no ice so we could straighten out.  Was so shook up had to stop the car until my hands stopped shaking.  

Ranger hill later froze that night, so the entire state was bifurcated and nobody could get up or down.  Folks were sleeping in jails, gas stations, etc.  Took me a week to get home.  

[Constant 6902]

12 minutes ago, RPM said:

I agree we are under prepared for these events given our location, but that doesn't excuse not being properly prepared. TxDot and the other maint groups have come to heavily rely on using a sodium solution because it cheap, easy and relatively effective. But the treatment you give a FM road might not be as effective on a interstate, especially in a metro area. 35/45/635 should look like a dirt county road on elevated areas, but that ain't cheap or easy.

Gotta put some responsibility on the drivers as well. Fuck, we all knew this was coming. Maybe don’t barrel down the highway like nothing is wrong. 

Edited February 12, 2021 by Constant

[RPM 26668]

3 minutes ago, Constant said:

Gotta put some responsibility on the drivers as well.

Absolutely. They don't get a free pass for being a dumbass, but we should have planned for that. You knew it was going to happen. Dipshits going to dipshit.

 Put some warning trucks a mile or so ahead and lower the speed limit. The drivers went into it blind at freeway speed.

Edited February 12, 2021 by RPM

[naija 3064]

Perhaps some consideration to building less overpasses that feel like you are driving onto a Six Flags ride.

[Vic Mackey 47989]

24 minutes ago, Constant said:

Gotta put some responsibility on the drivers as well. Fuck, we all knew this was coming. Maybe don’t barrel down the highway like nothing is wrong. 

This is the society we live in today. Everyone wants to place blame to someone else and take none of it. Dallas had an 18 car pile up on 45 yesterday.18 wheelers also involved. These trucks are getting worse and worse as I mentioned yesterday. They used to be the guys you could trust on the roads. Now I see them barreling down and tailgating and abrupt lane changes.

[J.R. Juniors Junior Jr. 1113]

1 hour ago, Bevo said:

Austin must have taken a hint. All the freeways were shut down this morning.

SH 45 SW was still open. I passed a couple of people in luxury SUVs that were driving like absolute grannies.

[J.R. Juniors Junior Jr. 1113]

22 minutes ago, naija said:

Perhaps some consideration to building less overpasses that feel like you are driving onto a Six Flags ride.

Apparently Texas' use of frontage roads is what causes the ridiculous height of overpasses when two freeways intersect. The frontage roads create a third or fourth layer of roads you don't find in other states.

[atomheartbevo 90665]

31 minutes ago, J.R. Juniors Junior Jr. said:

Apparently Texas' use of frontage roads is what causes the ridiculous height of overpasses when two freeways intersect. The frontage roads create a third or fourth layer of roads you don't find in other states.

One of the big things friends and family from out of state notice is the ridiculous overpasses.  And it’s odd when we visit other large cities and don’t see it.  

[Spaulding Smails 1610]

I was on the fence this morning about shutting down our field workers this morning (I'm in Austin) ... until I watched that video.  We already had a dozen or so trucks out and about, but we made the call to shut everything down and ground the fleet.  I had several guys complaining and saying the roads were fine, but it's not worth the risk / liability.  Commercial vehicle insurance is already bad enough.  TJH and his counterparts would have a field day.

[Deej 77857]

4 hours ago, RPM said:

TxDot...This is what you get when you put aggy in charge.

fify

[Ghost of LL 15705]

16 hours ago, cmontexas said:

Took 820 around the city because 35 still shutdown and there was a double trailer Ben E Keith truck going probably 80 riding somebody's ass in the middle lane. 

 

Save us Elon

Self-driving trucks are coming.  They're already at a pretty advanced stage of development.  And as they get rolled out, you're going to hear all manner of screaming from the Teamsters about "but safety."  But damned if videos like this don't undermine that argument.

 

[mulletpelini 5225]

16 hours ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

Plus everything is electronic logs, so if you’re stuck in traffic burning precious time for deliveries, its impossible to fudge your logs like you can with paper logs.

You'd think if they needed logs over here.....and they needed logs over there.....a phone call would have saved a whole lot of trouble.

[52-80 19377]

1 hour ago, Ghost of LL said:

Self-driving trucks are coming.  They're already at a pretty advanced stage of development.  And as they get rolled out, you're going to hear all manner of screaming from the Teamsters about "but safety."  But damned if videos like this don't undermine that argument.

 

How would self-driving truck behave differently here? 

 

[Jkwellborn 7050]

A guy I deal with at work was friends with one of the people killed.

[Steel Shank 9558]

6 hours ago, J.R. Juniors Junior Jr. said:

Apparently Texas' use of frontage roads is what causes the ridiculous height of overpasses when two freeways intersect. The frontage roads create a third or fourth layer of roads you don't find in other states.

My grandmother commented one time how there was a "Frontage Road" in just about every town in Texas.

[Ghost of LL 15705]

43 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

How would self-driving truck behave differently here? 

 

I think part of the technology involves it obtaining and processing additional information, such as road temperatures and traffic updates from other trucks/cars on the road.  It presumably would've approached the area at a significantly slower speed.

[Surly Bevo 25777]

High ass overpasses in Texas....they build them because they can. Specifically because weather events like this are so rare.  Obviously you would never see that in Chicago.  Shit would be closed constantly November-March.

[mchookem 16779]

1 hour ago, Steel Shank said:

My grandmother commented one time how there was a "Frontage Road" in just about every town in Texas.

except Houston... they have "feeders" lol

Edited February 12, 2021 by mchookem

[Ellellelle 355]

How would self-driving truck behave differently here? 
 

I've been wondering this myself. But maybe they can constantly be analysing traffic data and see a slow down miles away rather than from the top of a hill.

[HiggyBaby 2620]

Ugh, just watched the video of the guy saying he was trying to save the lady in the silver Beetle but had to jump out of the way when the FedEx truck showed up. That impact killed her.