Texas deep freeze carnage thread

[Grade of D as in David 13253]

23 minutes ago, ABSR said:

You’re past due for an inspection.

Don't think it's going to pass with those cracked headlights.

[phdhorn 6224]

[Hairy Biped 585]

11 hours ago, blacklab said:

I'm fine but my neck is pretty sore. 

Inhaled a pound of dust from the airbags 

Wait!  You keep your cocaine in the airbags?

[Radical Larry 28566]

You've obviously never met blacklab. It was angel dust. 

[Vito Andolini 9125]

Update: December 15, 2020

The Temporary Waiver of Vehicle Title & Registration Requirements Ends April 14, 2021

If you’re overdue, it’s time to renew! The temporary waiver of certain vehicle title and registration requirements, announced by Governor Greg Abbott on March 16, 2020, due to the COVID-19 pandemic, will end on April 14, 2021.

If you have not renewed your expired vehicle registration, you should make plans to renew by that date. It is not necessary to wait until the deadline to complete any overdue transactions as motorists have several renewal options.

Three ways to renew your vehicle registration:

1. Visit www.TxDMV.gov/register or www.Texas.gov. This is the quickest and least expensive way to renew. Save $1 if you renew online. Online renewal is available up to nine months past your registration expiration date.
2. Mail: Return the bottom portion of your registration renewal form, payment and other required information to your county tax assessor-collector.
3. In Person: Visit the office of your county tax assessor-collector. In many counties, in-person renewal is also available at other locations, such as certain grocery stores. Contact your county tax office to check hours and locations.

Reminder: Before renewing registration, Texans will need to obtain a passing vehicle inspection at the state vehicle inspection station of their choice, unless their vehicle is exempt from inspection requirements.

The expiring temporary waiver covers the following services:

• Initial vehicle registration.
• Vehicle registration renewal.
• Vehicle titling.
• Renewal of permanent disabled parking placards
• 30-day temporary permits.

The Texas Department of Motor Vehicles does not issue driver licenses or state ID cards. Texans should contact the Texas Department of Public Safety (DPS) at www.dps.texas.gov/driverlicense/ for these services.

[immortal13 4059]

3 hours ago, phdhorn said:

"Cause there ain't nothin wrong with the radio"

[Spaulding Smails 1552]

@blacklab at least you were on the news.  Saw your vehicle and the ensuing backup it caused courtesy of Fox 26 last night.  

[CleverNickname 1308]

I think he should wait to see what the adjuster says before reupping the registration. 

[Guest]

The waiver ends in April... seems like renewal could wait a week longer at a minimum, given the current conditions.

Edited February 14, 2021 by slorch

[wd40 1976]

18 hours ago, deadshank said:

Don’t deny us the story.  
 

Spill it. 

[Godzillatron 292]

Same here. Also open up cabinets that have water lines to hopefully keep them warmer for the outdoor faucets.
Even with these precautions I worry about temps in the teens freezing outdoor hose bibs and lines.

I’ve never dripped an outside faucet, including growing up north of the Red River where we regularly got freezes like this. Always just put a hose bib cover on and didn’t worry about it. Today I see multiple sources saying to drip the hose bib. I’m confused. What says Surly?

[texhorn 351]

Don’t drip outside.

[TwiceHorn 31440]

13 minutes ago, Godzillatron said:

I’ve never dripped an outside faucet, including growing up north of the Red River where we regularly got freezes like this. Always just put a hose bib cover on and didn’t worry about it. Today I see multiple sources saying to drip the hose bib. I’m confused. What says Surly?

I tend to think that dripping a faucet, any faucet, is for the purpose of relieving pressure/giving water a place to go as it freezes.   And keeping water moving a little.

In that sense, opening every faucet you got is probably helpful.  

By the same token, opening a single faucet doesn't really help that much in avoiding freezing of that particular faucet, particularly if it is exposed to the cold.

So, I tend to think keeping them covered is a better plan along with opening/dripping as many interior faucets as you can.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13509]

I’ve always dripped a few faucets to keep water flowing through all of the house pipes. I understand that northerners may be confused by this behavior but their houses were built expecting extreme cold weather. Ours are not. I’ve watched winter prep videos describing how to turn off water to outside faucets for northern homes. I don’t think that is an option for many in Texas.

I did see a notice from the city of Houston advising not to drip water due to the impact to water pressure city wide. Makes sense but admittedly I will probably leave a sink dripping for the next couple of days.

[phdhorn 6224]

14 minutes ago, texhorn said:

Don’t drip outside.

There is no other answer, period, for us.  Don't run faucets outside.  They will freeze.  Running water continues running under the part that freezes, until there's no more place for the water to run.  Then it stops running.  Then your faucet freezes.

BTW, pipes don't burst from the ice expanding and breaking the pipe.  They burst because the expanded ice pushes water pressure so much that somewhere in the pipe, a weakness allows the pipe to rupture.  So your pipe could be frozen on one side of the house, but the rupture occurring way on the other side, seemingly having nothing to do with where the frozen pipe is.

This is why you should drip water inside of your house during the cold.  It relieves pressure on the system.  Personally I drip every faucet I have, some cold water and some (yes) hot water (that's under pressure, too).  You can drip only 5-6 drops per minute but in this kind of cold I'll drip much faster than that, right about the point where it turns into a stream.  Just how I roll.

[RPM 26318]

20 hours ago, deadshank said:

Don’t deny us the story.  
 

Spill it. 

[XYZ 2154]

4 minutes ago, phdhorn said:

There is no other answer, period, for us.  Don't run faucets outside.  They will freeze.  Running water continues running under the part that freezes, until there's no more place for the water to run.  Then it stops running.  Then your faucet freezes.

That doesn't make any sense. Team drip outside faucets. And by drip I mean a small stream.

[XYZ 2154]

Fight me.

[miguelito 11255]

34 minutes ago, phdhorn said:

BTW, pipes don't burst from the ice expanding and breaking the pipe.  They burst because the expanded ice pushes water pressure so much that somewhere in the pipe, a weakness allows the pipe to rupture.  So your pipe could be frozen on one side of the house, but the rupture occurring way on the other side, seemingly having nothing to do with where the frozen pipe is.

I'm not a phd, but isn't that pressure always present in the pipes?  If there's ice blockage somewhere, that's just like closing a valve and preventing the flow, but there's still the same pressure.

I've had a pipe burst before, and it was definitely from expanding ice.  (In that case, it was an exposed above ground pipe barely wrapped).

[TwiceHorn 31440]

37 minutes ago, phdhorn said:

They burst because the expanded ice pushes water pressure so much that somewhere in the pipe, a weakness allows the pipe to rupture. 

Yep, it's not because the entire contents of the pipe freezes and expands 10%, it's the pressure applied by sections freezing on the liquid water elsewhere in the system.

[TwiceHorn 31440]

8 minutes ago, miguelito said:

I'm not a phd, but isn't that pressure always present in the pipes?  If there's ice blockage somewhere, that's just like closing a valve and preventing the flow, but there's still the same pressure.

I've had a pipe burst before, and it was definitely from expanding ice.  (In that case, it was an exposed above ground pipe barely wrapped).

There's water pressure driven by whatever normally drives water pressure to your home, usually pressure in the distribution system.  That's always there until you cut yourself off from it.

But the issue here is that water expands by volume about 9-10% when it freezes.  So a chunk of ice forming in a pipe reduces the volume in that pipe by something less than 10% (10% of the volume of water that forms into ice, which is significantly less than the entire volume of water in the pipe), which exerts pressure on the remaining water in the pipe, which can burst the pipe somewhere.  It's like applying a plunger or piston to one end of the pipe to reduce its volume and increase the pressure in the incompressible water in the pipe.

Having a faucet open lets that water go somewhere so the chance of pressure being raised to a pipe-bursting level is reduced.

Movement of the water helps a bit, but the movement is slight if you're just dripping and moving water can still freeze, at least partially, and it's the partial freezing that we're worried about.

Edited February 14, 2021 by TwiceHorn

[phdhorn 6224]

6 minutes ago, miguelito said:

I'm not a phd, but isn't that pressure always present in the pipes?  If there's ice blockage somewhere, that's just like closing a valve and preventing the flow, but there's still the same pressure.

I've had a pipe burst before, and it was definitely from expanding ice.  (In that case, it was an exposed above ground pipe barely wrapped).

I'm only posting from experience, talking to plumbers, and from dozens of Internet sites which say this, and as you know, the Internet is always right:
 

Misconception: Ice expansion causes a pipe to burst.

Many believe that frozen pipes burst because of ice expanding in place. Instead, it has to do with pressure. When water freezes within the pipe, the water molecules expand, forming a blockage of ice which prevents unfrozen water from passing through. The pipe areas upstream of the blockage aren't typically in danger of bursting because the pressure isn't great enough. In this case, the water isn't blocked, and can always retreat back to its source. Rather, the resulting pressure from unfrozen water between the ice and closed faucet is the primary cause of ruptures in frozen pipes. 

https://www.puresituationroom.com/spotlight/2015-10-28-frozen-pipes#:~:text=Misconception%3A Ice expansion causes a pipe to burst.&text=Instead%2C it has to do,unfrozen water from passing through.

I dunno, maybe it's both, but this explanation sure seems better than ice cracking the pipe.  

[phdhorn 6224]

2 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

There's water pressure driven by whatever normally drives water pressure to your home, usually pressure in the distribution system.  That's always there until you cut yourself off from it.

But the issue here is that water expands by volume about 9-10% when it freezes.  So a chunk of ice forming in a pipe reduces the volume in that pipe by something less than 10% (10% of the volume of water that forms into ice, which is significantly less than the entire volume of water in the pipe), which exerts pressure on the remaining water in the pipe, which can burst the pipe somewhere.  It's like applying a plunger or piston to one end of the pipe to reduce its volume and increase the pressure in the incompressible water in the pipe.

Having a faucet open lets that water go somewhere so the chance of pressure being raised to a pipe-bursting level is reduced.

The conventional wisdom is to open the faucet farthest from where water enters your house, but I open most of 'em.  Not sure it does anything better, but if nothing else, it relieves pressure a bit faster thru the system.  And 4-5 dripping faucets is probably a few bowlsful in 24 hours, I can spare it.

[miguelito 11255]

It seems like there would need to be a LOT of ice in the pipe to increase pressure enough to burst the pipe somewhere other than where the ice is. 

Regardless, if I have a pipe burst, I won't give a shit about why at that point.

[RPM 26318]

Expansion talk not going away.

[phdhorn 6224]

Just now, miguelito said:

It seems like there would need to be a LOT of ice in the pipe to increase pressure enough to burst the pipe somewhere other than where the ice is. 

Regardless, if I have a pipe burst, I won't give a shit about why at that point.

Last die on hill point of argument:  maybe, but pressure is equal all throughout the pipes.  Therefore water will burst through a pipe at whatever weakness it might have.  I've had 3 pipes leaks; 2 were at manifolds, or quite near them, and both were on the far side of the house from the water entry.  So it makes sense that if the entire pipe is 60 psi that the weakest part of the structure will burst, not the part nearest the clog.  But what do I know?  I'm only a fake weatherman.

[miguelito 11255]

We might need Steel Shank to weigh in on this pipe discussion.

[Guest Lobo]

2 minutes ago, RPM said:

Expansion talk not going away.

It's better than Pipe Realignment talk.  Or as South Austin's Mom calls it...Thursday.

[South Austin 52458]

6 minutes ago, RPM said:

Expansion talk not going away.

Cialis works wonders.

[Mighty fine 169]

It seems like there would need to be a LOT of ice in the pipe to increase pressure enough to burst the pipe somewhere other than where the ice is. 
Regardless, if I have a pipe burst, I won't give a shit about why at that point.

Not really. If the water completely fills the pipe (no air) and begins to freeze, it tries to compress the unfrozen water. But since water is not compressible*, and if it's not allowed to vent, you'll see a pretty significant pressure build up. The freezing water is basically running an uncontrolled hydrostatic test on the piping.

I had always assumed it was a hoop stress in the frozen section. Thanks to TwiceHorn for his post a couple nights ago; after thinking about it, his (and phd's) explanations are on the money.

*practical truth, not universal

[Vito Andolini 9125]

For the Drippers out there, have you already started doing this? I was considering it when it got into the single digits, but now I’m wondering if Freezing means Freezing, so (literal) degree of difference doesn’t really matter much, damage could happen at 25 degrees, just as it may at 2 degrees. I’ll hang up and listen.

[Hpara759 1778]

40 minutes ago, RPM said:

Expansion talk not going away.

 

[mdleast 8289]

Robert Plant wants you to turn on your faucets

[Guest Lobo]

Appropriate soundtrack for Valentine's Day.  Pos rep...I haven't listened to that album in years.  I remember in the late 80's, it was damn hard to find.  

[UTCzech III 2907]

1 hour ago, Vito Andolini said:

For the Drippers out there, have you already started doing this? I was considering it when it got into the single digits, but now I’m wondering if Freezing means Freezing, so (literal) degree of difference doesn’t really matter much, damage could happen at 25 degrees, just as it may at 2 degrees. I’ll hang up and listen.

Are you talking outside faucets (I am assuming so...).  Yesterday and today, I'm just going out about every 4 hours, open up the faucets on full for about 10-15 seconds so they warm back up and stay unclogged/frozen. Did this yesterday, last time was about 9pm, woke up this morning and 2 were froze up.  Poured a little hot water on them and they unfroze.  So the same schedule again today, every 4 hours or so.  Tonight I'll start them running (and I mean running, not dripping).  

[TwiceHorn 31440]

1 hour ago, miguelito said:

It seems like there would need to be a LOT of ice in the pipe to increase pressure enough to burst the pipe somewhere other than where the ice is. 

Regardless, if I have a pipe burst, I won't give a shit about why at that point.

Well, think of it like a jar full of water in the freezer.  If there's a lid on it (all faucets closed), that fucker's gonna bust.

If there's not a lid on it, or not tight (faucets open), it's just going to come out the top and run down the sides and freeze.

[Vito Andolini 9125]

13 minutes ago, UTCzech III said:

Are you talking outside faucets (I am assuming so...).  Yesterday and today, I'm just going out about every 4 hours, open up the faucets on full for about 10-15 seconds so they warm back up and stay unclogged/frozen. Did this yesterday, last time was about 9pm, woke up this morning and 2 were froze up.  Poured a little hot water on them and they unfroze.  So the same schedule again today, every 4 hours or so.  Tonight I'll start them running (and I mean running, not dripping).  

Thank you for the reply, but I have all my outside faucets wrapped up with a styrofoam cap and then a flannel pillowcase wrapped in plastic, so I hope they stay protected. I’m wondering if people are already doing the drip thing inside. It’s currently 22 where I am. 

[TwiceHorn 31440]

1 hour ago, Vito Andolini said:

For the Drippers out there, have you already started doing this? I was considering it when it got into the single digits, but now I’m wondering if Freezing means Freezing, so (literal) degree of difference doesn’t really matter much, damage could happen at 25 degrees, just as it may at 2 degrees. I’ll hang up and listen.

Heat transfer is driven by temperature differential.  Heat flows from the hot to the cold and faster the larger the temperature difference.  Eventually, two masses (pipe and outdoor air) will reach equilibrium at the same temperature.

The colder it is, the larger the temp differential and the faster things will freeze as heat flows away from the pipe into the cold atmosphere, all else being equal.

So, at higher temps it will take longer for something to freeze than at lower temps.

If it sits there long enough at 28, it could freeze just as surely as at 18.  But it will take less time at 18.

The faucets need to be open when the freezing takes place.

The wild card is that the cold atmosphere is a virtually infinite source of cold and your heated house is similarly a virtually infinite source of heat.  Even the best insulated houses are going to radiate and conduct some heat outward.  So you have a "fight" going on between the heat source of your house and the cold source of the atmosphere.  If your house is heated to 70, there's a 38 degree differential from freezing.  And the outside temperature produces a differential in the other direction that is smaller.  But your house isn't conducting/radiating/convecting directly to the pipe as the atmosphere is.

ME338 ftmfw.

tl;dr drip your faucets and start now.

Edited February 14, 2021 by TwiceHorn

[Mrs Whiggins 13050]

We had already made a purchase of some bags of mulch and bales of peat moss for the spring spruce up and had stacked them in the garage against the wall where the outdoor faucet is; it always makes it a little more difficult to get out of the car, but normally it is only for a week or two. Now we may have a little insulation there or a big muddy mess when this is over.

We are Team No Outdoor Drip. We do open the cupboards and have a faucet drip inside at night, though.

 

Crazy neighbor up the street that has the truck too big to fit in the garage has the door up and no faucet protection. If it wasn't so slippery out, I would go sightsee to observe. He's super cranky and the next doors will call for a welfare check if necessary.

[BrickHorn 18217]

3 hours ago, Godzillatron said:

I’ve never dripped an outside faucet, including growing up north of the Red River where we regularly got freezes like this. Always just put a hose bib cover on and didn’t worry about it. Today I see multiple sources saying to drip the hose bib. I’m confused. What says Surly?

I’m draining my lines this evening and going without running water for a day or two. Will fill up the bathtub to store toilet flushing water and a couple of portable water jugs for hand-washing. We have a long stretch of pipe running on an exterior wall that will be impossible to keep from freezing the next two nights during what will be a 4-day spell of below freezing temperatures, especially considering the decent likelihood of a power outage if we see any snow or ice.

[Vito Andolini 9125]

Ass Dan don’t need no water

[Laxtonto 12078]

[workswithseed 2095]

5 minutes ago, Laxtonto said:

I was so caught off guard by her.

[Sandman 3403]

I did the laundry yesterday and thought I'd wash the bedding today, just to keep the pipes clear. No water to the washing machine. The showers, dishwasher and all faucets are fine, just nothing to the washer. The pipes go into the wall in the laundry room, no chance to do any preventive measures, nor can I see a way to thaw them out. I don't know if anything has burst in the wall, it's been below freezing here for days here in central OK. But it worked fine all day yesterday, so I'm stumped. 

How can I thaw this out when I can't see or reach any pipes?

 

[washparkhorn 9939]

9 minutes ago, BrickHorn said:

We have a long stretch of pipe running on an exterior wall

godspeed good sir.  If I were in your shoes, I would drain the water as well. damn.

[Player 4575]

Got a couple of these for the outdoor faucets off Amazon:

https://www.freezemiser.com/

Dripping along nicely into 5 gal buckets.

[TwiceHorn 31440]

18 minutes ago, Sandman said:

I did the laundry yesterday and thought I'd wash the bedding today, just to keep the pipes clear. No water to the washing machine. The showers, dishwasher and all faucets are fine, just nothing to the washer. The pipes go into the wall in the laundry room, no chance to do any preventive measures, nor can I see a way to thaw them out. I don't know if anything has burst in the wall, it's been below freezing here for days here in central OK. But it worked fine all day yesterday, so I'm stumped. 

How can I thaw this out when I can't see or reach any pipes?

 

Yeah, that's one set of pipes I have on/in an exterior wall.  I suppose I could pull the washer out unhook the hoses and drip into a bucket, but there's three inches of stone and a sheet of insulation outside of them and the hot pipe is just inches from the cold pipe (I assume).  I am just periodically going in and letting some water run into the washer.

[JerrysJheriCurl 977]

 

1 hour ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

We had already made a purchase of some bags of mulch and bales of peat moss for the spring spruce up and had stacked them in the garage against the wall where the outdoor faucet is; it always makes it a little more difficult to get out of the car, but normally it is only for a week or two. Now we may have a little insulation there or a big muddy mess when this is over.

We are Team No Outdoor Drip. We do open the cupboards and have a faucet drip inside at night, though.

 

Crazy neighbor up the street that has the truck too big to fit in the garage has the door up and no faucet protection. If it wasn't so slippery out, I would go sightsee to observe. He's super cranky and the next doors will call for a welfare check if necessary.

Do you drip hot handle to the faucets as well or just cold handle? What about shower heads... do you drip?

Edited February 14, 2021 by JerrysJheriCurl

[Guest Lobo]

If it's the same bathroom, you can just pick one or the other for the outboard faucets and probably anything in a north-facing bathroom/utility room/kitchen.  Start with the one farthest away from your city water line.  If the faucet and shower are right next to another, the faucet is fine.  If it's a larger bathroom with a separation of some distance between them, drip both.  Opening up the cabinets and sleeping with bathroom doors open as opposed to closed (which how we usually roll) also makes a big difference 

You don't have to actually drip all faucets, that's a misconception in Texas.  It depends on where your lines are and what is oriented to what direction and the interior stuff (powder rooms in the middle of the house, that kinda thing.  Thankfully our kitchen sink/dishwasher line which have been having issues lately are smack dab in the middle of the house.  (knocks on wood/drinks a shot)

[Guest]

Powder room is a euphemism for an armory, right?