Bourbon

[T’Boo Ted Marshall 2723]

Yeah that’s madness. I’m still mad it got over $30 when it was less for 15+ years.

[crainiac 37]

BIL got this in a raffle, bought for $150. Thanked him for shopping for me so early.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Neonmoon 38127]

Best bourbon I’ve ever had 

[davidg 4025]

Liquor store that took over the country store building in Bedias today had two GTS and a WLW, $549 & $449 respectively on the tags. Girl at the counter said that she would take $400 for the Weller.

[Okie State 3788]

I don’t remember them doing it last year, but I could be wrong. It seems like a drastic change from what Spec’s normally does. 
Both the Full Proof and Blanton’s are store picks so it could be a promotional thing related to that. Regardless, Buffalo Trace hooked them and sent an unusually large amount of Weller Full Proof and Blanton’s. I don’t expect I’ll ever see more bottles of both in the same place for the rest of my life. 
An entire table covered in Weller Full Proof is crazy. 

Damn.

[GreenspointTexas 9559]

The market demand sets the price

 

im amazed that some of yall still get sticker shock

 

[billfromlaketravis 11357]

1 minute ago, GreenspointTexas said:

The market demand sets the price

 

im amazed that some of yall still get sticker shock

 

Could you kindly explain the Weller Special Reserve craze? I never thought much of it. I've heard about some flippers refilling used Weller 12 bottles with Special Reserve and resealing them, but that has to be a very small part of the market. 

I think the problem is Wine Searcher. Any schmuck that owns a liquor store and a phone can gauge the secondary market. 

[billfromlaketravis 11357]

29 minutes ago, Okie State said:

4 hours ago, billfromlaketravis said:

I don’t remember them doing it last year, but I could be wrong. It seems like a drastic change from what Spec’s normally does. 
Both the Full Proof and Blanton’s are store picks so it could be a promotional thing related to that. Regardless, Buffalo Trace hooked them and sent an unusually large amount of Weller Full Proof and Blanton’s. I don’t expect I’ll ever see more bottles of both in the same place for the rest of my life. 
An entire table covered in Weller Full Proof is crazy. 

Damn.

It was striking to see it. Full Proof is going for $600 all day long on Wine Searcher. Many, many folks picked up a bottle of Full Proof and Blantons and headed for the register skipping the Antique and Eagle Rare table. A flipper dead give away in my opinion, but I hope I'm wrong. 

I anxiously await the Bourbon Pursuit bitch fest on why does Buffalo Trace send so much Weller to Texas. It's long been in the making, and a few hundred bottles of Full Proof dropping at one store should set them off. 

It will be interesting to hear if there were any party favors for the early arrivals. Allegedly, people starting camping out at 230 in the morning. The Smith Street location is surrounded by Midtown bars so assuming they scooted over there after last call,  there are worse ways to spend a night than passed out in a lawn chair. 

Edited December 29, 2019 by billfromlaketravis

[RaylanGivens 29]

On 12/27/2019 at 9:16 PM, billfromlaketravis said:

Alright you heathens, I'm opening a bottle of Heaven Hill 7 tonight. Review forthcoming. 

Your report wasn't encouraging

Edited December 29, 2019 by RaylanGivens

[RaylanGivens 29]

3 hours ago, davidg said:

Liquor store that took over the country store building in Bedias today had two GTS and a WLW, $549 & $449 respectively on the tags. Girl at the counter said that she would take $400 for the Weller.

Is that Smileys, or ABC?

[RaylanGivens 29]

10 hours ago, billfromlaketravis said:

My friend was in line by 915 am. When we reached the Weller Full Proof they had an entire table of bottles. 

Damn, and I thought I was your friend.

 

[RaylanGivens 29]

BTW, how did you get notice of the special allocation release.I swear I thought I was connected to Spec's in all the right ways. Key Card, Email, etc

[Neonmoon 38127]

9 hours ago, GreenspointTexas said:

The market demand sets the price

 

im amazed that some of yall still get sticker shock

 

Yep. And when hoarding Bourbon is more normal than the exception these days. You have scarcity. Supply v demand 

[billfromlaketravis 11357]

8 hours ago, RaylanGivens said:

Your report wasn't encouraging

Heaven Hill 7 is maybe sweeter and a tad smoother than Evan Williams Bottled in Bond, but it would be tough to tell the difference in a blind tasting. 

[USCATX 1067]

11 hours ago, davidg said:

Liquor store that took over the country store building in Bedias today had two GTS and a WLW, $549 & $449 respectively on the tags. Girl at the counter said that she would take $400 for the Weller.

Buy that WLW and I’ll take it off your hands for $400+tax and throw in a WB Saffell for your trouble.  Or if you have another bottle in mind I might have that, too. 

[USCATX 1067]

10 hours ago, billfromlaketravis said:

Could you kindly explain the Weller Special Reserve craze? I never thought much of it. I've heard about some flippers refilling used Weller 12 bottles with Special Reserve and resealing them, but that has to be a very small part of the market. 

I think the problem is Wine Searcher. Any schmuck that owns a liquor store and a phone can gauge the secondary market. 

It’s hard to get in some areas and will sell for about 2x retail in those locations.  Some guys in TX are using it to build up points at Spec’s/TW and fueling the fire.  
 

For what it’s worth, I picked up a Larceny single barrel and compared it to Weller SR and the Larceny was nowhere near as good.  For the retail price ($18) it’s tough to beat Weller SR.  

Edited December 29, 2019 by USCATX

[Brew 3045]

Tried searching, but couldn’t find anything. Has anyone tried the Hudson Baby Bourbon? It is on a lot of the 2019 best bourbon lists but I don’t know anyone that has tried it. There are several on the shelves around SWFL, so I might give it a shot. Picked up an OF 1910, OF 1920, HW Bourye, and a couple other things to try that I cannot ever find back home. May make another stop before we head out as there were quite a few mentioned here that were sitting on shelves.

[USCATX 1067]

7 minutes ago, Brew said:

Tried searching, but couldn’t find anything. Has anyone tried the Hudson Baby Bourbon? It is on a lot of the 2019 best bourbon lists but I don’t know anyone that has tried it. There are several on the shelves around SWFL, so I might give it a shot. Picked up an OF 1910, OF 1920, HW Bourye, and a couple other things to try that I cannot ever find back home. May make another stop before we head out as there were quite a few mentioned here that were sitting on shelves.

Had it last night and it’s pretty much trash.  Weird bitter flavors on the palate with a classic young corn craft distilled finish.  It’s the same price as a Russell’s Reserve pick so screw that. 

Edited December 29, 2019 by USCATX

[GreenspointTexas 9559]

What will happen, and it WILL happen, is the market will crater in 3-4 years.

 

people that hoard/flip will be broke and their stock will be overfull of bourbon, and you’ll eventually see things like Weller collecting dust on the shelves

 

only problem is waiting that long

[billfromlaketravis 11357]

8 minutes ago, Brew said:

Tried searching, but couldn’t find anything. Has anyone tried the Hudson Baby Bourbon? It is on a lot of the 2019 best bourbon lists but I don’t know anyone that has tried it. There are several on the shelves around SWFL, so I might give it a shot. Picked up an OF 1910, OF 1920, HW Bourye, and a couple other things to try that I cannot ever find back home. May make another stop before we head out as there were quite a few mentioned here that were sitting on shelves.

I think you missteped with the Hudson Bay. I don't like any of the New York bourbons. I like that they're trying, but they need to improve. You did very well with the other 3 picks. Bourye is terrific, but priced higher than it should be. It's worth the money if it's your first bottle. 

[Eggo 3974]

Uncorked my Jefferson's Ocean Old Rum Cask last night. Poured 1oz. Sipped. Poured back in bottle. Poured 1910 and tried to forget the money I paid for the Jefferson's. 

[Scooter Monzingo 820]

4 hours ago, GreenspointTexas said:

What will happen, and it WILL happen, is the market will crater in 3-4 years.

 

people that hoard/flip will be broke and their stock will be overfull of bourbon, and you’ll eventually see things like Weller collecting dust on the shelves

 

only problem is waiting that long

I would think how trends go, you are probably dead on. But, there are a lot of new players in the game that want their bottles. And many just want a special bottle sitting on their bar, and have no interest in opening it, which is a shame. So it may stretch out longer than 4 years. 

[Okie State 3788]

Same shit happened in the craft beer world and now I can hardly think of any 'whales' that people hunt for. Founder's CBS used to be a unicorn just a few years ago and now it collects dust on shelves. Bourbon isn't the same as beer, but I'd bet it follows a similar path.

[Neonmoon 38127]

7 hours ago, GreenspointTexas said:

What will happen, and it WILL happen, is the market will crater in 3-4 years.

 

people that hoard/flip will be broke and their stock will be overfull of bourbon, and you’ll eventually see things like Weller collecting dust on the shelves

 

only problem is waiting that long

 

41 minutes ago, Okie State said:

Same shit happened in the craft beer world and now I can hardly think of any 'whales' that people hunt for. Founder's CBS used to be a unicorn just a few years ago and now it collects dust on shelves. Bourbon isn't the same as beer, but I'd bet it follows a similar path.

I think Bourbon is a little different because of aging. You have to wait 6-12 years before you know you have something good. And then also factor in most bourbons created outside Kentucky suck (as of now). Craft beers can pop up and create similar local product easily. There’s no point finding unicorn beers as there are similar local options. 
 

Will the bourbon craze die down? Yes, all things pass. But so far, the market will always be tight when most great Bourbon is coming from the same 5 distilleries. 

[Okie State 3788]

Agreed. Much more difficult to adjust the supply side of Bourbon.

[Fondren & Main 6665]

Lead time for bourbon is much longer than barrel aged stouts.  I’m sure there will be an adjustment at some point.  However, the big bottles will always be hard to find imo.  It’s disappointing that I used to be able to get Eagle Rare for $23 and now I never even see it.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

19 hours ago, GreenspointTexas said:

The market demand sets the price

 

im amazed that some of yall still get sticker shock

 

Not here in Va. thank God !!!  It's state run, and all prices are MSRP all day, every day.  No price gouging. 

Edited December 30, 2019 by Onboard 2.0

[GreenspointTexas 9559]

1 hour ago, Neonmoon said:

 

I think Bourbon is a little different because of aging. You have to wait 6-12 years before you know you have something good. And then also factor in most bourbons created outside Kentucky suck (as of now). Craft beers can pop up and create similar local product easily. There’s no point finding unicorn beers as there are similar local options. 
 

Will the bourbon craze die down? Yes, all things pass. But so far, the market will always be tight when most great Bourbon is coming from the same 5 distilleries. 

But those 5 distilleries have ramped up production like a motherfucker over the past 6-8 years, have they not? Look for the market to flood with good product once that shit hits the appropriate age(s).

[RaylanGivens 29]

9 hours ago, GreenspointTexas said:

What will happen, and it WILL happen, is the market will crater in 3-4 years.

 

people that hoard/flip will be broke and their stock will be overfull of bourbon, and you’ll eventually see things like Weller collecting dust on the shelves

 

only problem is waiting that long

Folks have been saying this same stuff for the last 3 years

[Aqua Buddha 14501]

I keep wondering why retail hasn’t moved up to match demand.  Moving Eagle Rare to $50 and Blanton’s to $100 would slow the velocity and improve margin.

[Brew 3045]

11 hours ago, billfromlaketravis said:

I think you missteped with the Hudson Bay. I don't like any of the New York bourbons. I like that they're trying, but they need to improve. You did very well with the other 3 picks. Bourye is terrific, but priced higher than it should be. It's worth the money if it's your first bottle. 

I didn’t buy it because I knew I hadn’t seen it mentioned. Thought I would check before purchasing. Going to make another run tomorrow and pick up a few more things I’ve seen mentioned here that I don’t see at home (maybe a Larceny, a Michters US1, and an ECSB.) I’ve just been sticking with Eagle Rare and Buffalo Trace, because it’s easy to find at home so we’ll expand the collection a little bit.

[Party_Taco 3674]

I keep wondering why retail hasn’t moved up to match demand.  Moving Eagle Rare to $50 and Blanton’s to $100 would slow the velocity and improve margin.

Do distillers/distributors have any control there? I assume they’d prefer the situation as it currently stands.

[billfromlaketravis 11357]

7 hours ago, Brew said:

I didn’t buy it because I knew I hadn’t seen it mentioned. Thought I would check before purchasing. Going to make another run tomorrow and pick up a few more things I’ve seen mentioned here that I don’t see at home (maybe a Larceny, a Michters US1, and an ECSB.) I’ve just been sticking with Eagle Rare and Buffalo Trace, because it’s easy to find at home so we’ll expand the collection a little bit.

I bet if you chat up the bourbon guy and describe your dire situation back home, he might, he just might pull an Elijah Craig Barrel Proof out of the back. Most of the good stores have a couple on hand. 

[billfromlaketravis 11357]

10 hours ago, RaylanGivens said:

Folks have been saying this same stuff for the last 3 years

The international markets are growing and have always been there. If distillers can’t sell it here, they’ll just ship it overseas. For example, Yellow Rose is owned by Kirin, and has long standing ties in Japan. 

I’m on the older side of millennials, but there’s a growing interest in bourbon from that age group as well. I’d say a vast majority of the people in line at the Spec’s event this past Saturday were under 40.

I receive plenty of bourbon questions from 20 somethings at my office. They have  regular bourbon tastings for their young professional groups. 

 

Edited December 30, 2019 by billfromlaketravis

[Constant 6722]

 

I’m a self-proclaimed KC superfan, but I forgot how good this offering is. 

[Eggo 3974]

37 minutes ago, Constant said:

 

I’m a self-proclaimed KC superfan, but I forgot how good this offering is. 

And a happy Monday morning to you, too, sir. 

[Neonmoon 38127]

12 hours ago, GreenspointTexas said:

But those 5 distilleries have ramped up production like a motherfucker over the past 6-8 years, have they not? Look for the market to flood with good product once that shit hits the appropriate age(s).

The have expanded production, yes. But they’re not trying to oversupply the market. That would lead to less demand and lower prices, They are trying to keep up with demand which increases 5% each year. The market will never be flooded. 

[huge 3788]

2 hours ago, Constant said:

 

I’m a self-proclaimed KC superfan, but I forgot how good this offering is. 

How much is retail for this?  A site I go to has this bottle and I was intrigued.

[Aqua Buddha 14501]

10 hours ago, Party_Taco said:

Do distillers/distributors have any control there? I assume they’d prefer the situation as it currently stands.

They could raise the costs to reflect that.  Some of these items are only $30 retail which means cost is around $15 or something.  They could easily double both of those and make more money.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

4 hours ago, billfromlaketravis said:

 

I receive plenty of bourbon questions from 20 somethings at my office. They have  regular bourbon tastings for their young professional groups. 

 

I trust you're giving them solid advice, like buy cheap bourbon, Old panther is just as good as Blantons, or Weller, or ER,  etc., and always buy your local distillers offerings, they're fresher than that shit coming from Kentucky, I mean they have to be better cause they usually run about $60 or more.

Or better yet, all 'em to forget bourbon, drink scotch, it's better than bourbon all around.

Edited December 30, 2019 by Onboard 2.0

[achooloco 1065]

On 12/29/2019 at 11:22 AM, billfromlaketravis said:

I think you missteped with the Hudson Bay. I don't like any of the New York bourbons. I like that they're trying, but they need to improve. 

Living out here and seeing the WiDow janes, Hudsons, etc all the time, think this take is spot on. 

[billfromlaketravis 11357]

50 minutes ago, achooloco said:

Living out here and seeing the WiDow janes, Hudsons, etc all the time, think this take is spot on. 

I’ll give any state outside of Kentucky credit for trying. Years ago wine experts said you couldn’t make world class wines outside of France and Napa Valley proved them wrong. Maybe by some miracle, another state some day makes a bourbon just as good or better than Kentucky. Additionally, if other states make Kentucky distilleries work that much harder, we’ll all be better for it. 

Pennsylvania and Maryland have always made good ryes. Bowman Bros is out of Virginia and they’ve made some quality, unique single barrel bourbons. You do pick up some of the sea air/salt on the palette.

Of course MGP is in Indiana and makes outstanding bourbons and ryes. Can you imagine the quality  bourbon/rye scarcity if MGP didn’t exist?!

It stands to reason that states neighboring Kentucky could make outstanding products. I don’t like Jack Daniel’s, the Lincoln County method, and most especially Dickel, but the Jack Daniel’s Single Barrel Heritage is supposed to be an outstanding Tennessee whiskey. Nelson’s Green Brier and Belle Meade currently source distillate, but they should be able to make a great product soon. I think Tennessee will join Kentucky and Indiana as great bourbon/whiskey states if they’re not there already. 

Even Dickel is doing some interesting things. I don’t like their products, but I like them selling 8 year old product directly to liquor stores that the store can bottle and label as their own. It’s a really cool idea that cuts out the evil distributors. 

The jury is still out on West Virginia, but I think they’ll get there eventually. That said, Smooth Ambler Big Level was terrible. 

 I think Whitmeyer’s heart/soul is in the right place. I think they understand they have to blend MGP, Kentucky bourbon with their own product to make it good. I hope they take a stab at make a bottled in bond product. I’ve don’t understood why Balcones hasn’t attempted BiB. 

 Garrison Bros entry price point for their good products is just too darned high, but it doesn’t seem to bother them much. 

I really want to try WhistlePig’s Piggyback. 6 year old rye made entirely in Vermont, and more importantly $50 MSRP. It’s supposed to be really good. 

Edited December 30, 2019 by billfromlaketravis

[billfromlaketravis 11357]

26 minutes ago, billfromlaketravis said:

I’ll give any state outside of Kentucky credit for trying. Years ago wine experts said you couldn’t make world class wines outside of France and Napa Valley proved them wrong. Maybe by some miracle, another state some day makes a bourbon just as good or better than Kentucky. Additionally, if other states make Kentucky distilleries work that much harder, we’ll all be better for it. 

Pennsylvania and Maryland have always made good ryes. Bowman Bros is out of Virginia and they’ve made some quality, unique single barrel bourbons. You do pick up some of the sea air/salt on the palette.

Of course MGP is in Indiana and makes outstanding bourbons and ryes. Can you imagine the quality  bourbon/rye scarcity if MGP didn’t exist?!

It stands to reason that states neighboring Kentucky could make outstanding products. I don’t like Jack Daniel’s, the Lincoln County method, and most especially Dickel, but the Jack Daniel’s Single Barrel Heritage is supposed to be an outstanding Tennessee whiskey. Nelson’s Green Brier and Belle Meade currently source distillate, but they should be able to make a great product soon. I think Tennessee will join Kentucky and Indiana as great bourbon/whiskey states if they’re not there already. 

Even Dickel is doing some interesting things. I don’t like their products, but I like them selling 8 year old product directly to liquor stores that the store can bottle and label as their own. It’s a really cool idea that cuts out the evil distributors. 

The jury is still out on West Virginia, but I think they’ll get there eventually. That said, Smooth Ambler Big Level was terrible. 

 I think Whitmeyer’s heart/soul is in the right place. I think they understand they have to blend MGP, Kentucky bourbon with their own product to make it good. I hope they take a stab at make a bottled in bond product. I’ve don’t understood why Balcones hasn’t attempted BiB. 

 Garrison Bros entry price point for their good products is just too darned high, but it doesn’t seem to bother them much. 

I really want to try WhistlePig’s Piggyback. 6 year old rye made entirely in Vermont, and more importantly $50 MSRP. It’s supposed to be really good. 

Correction, WhistlePig sourced some of Piggyback.*

I also left out High West in Utah and Alberta which distills excellent ryes for WhistlePig. Ryes made in the American and Canadian Rockies seems pretty wild, but it works. 

Edited December 30, 2019 by billfromlaketravis

[Buzzrock 14870]

The have expanded production, yes. But they’re not trying to oversupply the market. That would lead to less demand and lower prices, They are trying to keep up with demand which increases 5% each year. The market will never be flooded. 

https://www.esquire.com/food-drink/drinks/a30298851/bourbon-boom-facebook-black-market/

It’s all Facebook’s fault as usual

[Bozo_Casanova 26271]

Good post Bill. We should all be grateful for MGP. They are good at why they do and play a crucial role.

I’m curious what your beef is with Dickel. I also don’t care for Lincoln County Whiskey, and I really dislike regular Jack Daniels. But Jack Daniels Single Barrel Select is excellent even if overpriced and Dickel Barrel Select is just as good IMO.

[achooloco 1065]

Damn, hadn’t thought about HW as non KY and i’m a big fan. And duh on my part, tenn ain’t Ky, but in my newbie thought process, jack daniels is synonymous with American whiskey so I had lumped both state products in together. 

i got some garrison bros. barrel pick with a gray/silver label from my bro after I gave him MWND but haven’t had a chance to open it. Not sure why but my idea of non-KY immediately went to Colorado and NY producers. Maybe cause the ones I’ve tried from those two states were at the same price point or higher than their competitors and the whiskey just lacked depth IMO. They aren’t bad or great, just not much nuance in flavor for the prices they charge. Whereas, the HW and whistle pig stuff I have tried all seemed quality and I guess i never thought about how they aren’t KY produced. 

[billfromlaketravis 11357]

11 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Good post Bill. We should all be grateful for MGP. They are good at why they do and play a crucial role.

I’m curious what your beef is with Dickel. I also don’t care for Lincoln County Whiskey, and I really dislike regular Jack Daniels. But Jack Daniels Single Barrel Select is excellent even if overpriced and Dickel Barrel Select is just as good IMO.

Dickel has an overpowering charcoal taste in my opinion, and I think it’s based on how they execute the Lincoln County method. Dickel runs distillate through charcoal in a vat and later drains it. While Jack runs the distillate straight through charcoal like a Brita filter. 

Ezra Brooks 7 Barrel Strength is a personal favorite of mine, so I don’t hate all Lincoln County style whiskeys. It’s contract distilled for Luxco by Heaven Hill. The charcoal is faint upfront and later dissipates. I suspect their method is similar to Jack Daniel’s. 

The Dickel 13 year Bottled in Bond has received good reviews and should be a great inexpensive bourbon on paper, but it tastes terrible to me. It’s possible my palate is charcoal sensitive, but plenty of people don’t like Dickel, so I’m not without company. 
 

[Neonmoon 38127]

HW sourced their bourbon from MGP and Barton. They’ve slowly introduced their own distillate and blended it with Kentucky distillate. I think we should wait till it’s all HW before we start celebrating non Kentucky expertise. After seeing Smooth Ambler flop, I’m weary to just assume these bottlers will make good stuff. 
 

The majority of good bourbon is still made by: Barton 1792 Distillery, Shively Distillery (Brown Foreman), Buffalo Trace Distillery, Four Roses Distillery (Kirin), Bernheim Distillery (Heaven Hill), Jim Beam Distillery, MGP Distillery 

Of course you have the Wild Turkey, Woodford Reserve, Makers Mark, Jack Daniels, singular focused distilleries that make solid stuff.

[billfromlaketravis 11357]

35 minutes ago, achooloco said:

Damn, hadn’t thought about HW as non KY and i’m a big fan. And duh on my part, tenn ain’t Ky, but in my newbie thought process, jack daniels is synonymous with American whiskey so I had lumped both state products in together. 

i got some garrison bros. barrel pick with a gray/silver label from my bro after I gave him MWND but haven’t had a chance to open it. Not sure why but my idea of non-KY immediately went to Colorado and NY producers. Maybe cause the ones I’ve tried from those two states were at the same price point or higher than their competitors and the whiskey just lacked depth IMO. They aren’t bad or great, just not much nuance in flavor for the prices they charge. Whereas, the HW and whistle pig stuff I have tried all seemed quality and I guess i never thought about how they aren’t KY produced. 

High West still sources some of their rye, and they definitely source their bourbon. As Neon stated above, the rye comes from MGP and the bourbon comes from Barton, but they are working more of their own product into their current offerings. 2018 Midwinters was the first year to have High West distilled rye in it. They’re still blenders at heart, but they’re wise to distill some of their own product as they scale up. 

High West has sent out mixed messages about a 100% Utah rye. I think eventually we’ll see on all Utah rye, and they’ll blend everything else.They’re very clear on bourbon, they’ll never distill it in Utah, probably because it wouldn’t work at the climate/altitude. 

To Neon’s point, Kentucky and to a lesser degree MGP are still king. To my point, keep trying other states. 
 

 

Edited December 30, 2019 by billfromlaketravis

[Bert Orange 1115]

Texas has everything else. Nobody’s perfect.