ERCOT, PUC, and deregulation got us here

[cactusflinthead 27598]

-1 F outside.

It is 41 in my house. We have been without power since 9 last night.

It's a goddamn mess and people are already dead.

Because Texas couldn't have the federal government telling us what to do.

Maybe it's time.

 

[cactusflinthead 27598]

 

[cactusflinthead 27598]

 

[cactusflinthead 27598]

https://twitter.com/ErickPRoy/status/1361662675688783873?s=19

[cactusflinthead 27598]

 

[Js1 85313]

 

[cactusflinthead 27598]

 

[workswithseed 2103]

I can't wait till I get power almost 24 hours

[Wanker Bob 379]

Is there anything that 21st century Republicans touch that isn't only a pure shit money grab for the rich at the expense of everyone else?

[BrickHorn 18219]

Regulation is socialism. Socialism is bad. Do you want to be like Venezuela? The free market will solve this. If you’re upset that you don’t have heat or running water and that people will die from exposure inside their own homes, just remember that it was all worth it because we have all the AR15s our hearts desire and it’s nearly impossible to get an abortion in the state.

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19100]

Texans are going to need to decide if they want to pay more for their electricity.  Because increased regulation and a change to the market to incentivize infrastructure (Texas is currently an energy only market with) is going to result in higher prices for electricity.    

 

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19100]

Also, FYI, this shit happened back in 2011.  Same exact thing with generation going down due to extreme cold.  Some of it was that the plants had not been weatherized (Narrator:  There was no reason to spend that money when 99.5% of the time, it isn't an issue), and others were because the gas lines went down.

In 2014, during the Polar Vortex (Which we are also in now), the Northeast and Midwest had similar problems, however, a lot of heat in the NE is heating oil, though there were gas shortages and electricity issues.  

Long and short, most of the US does not have extreme cold temps, especially for extended periods of time.  

[Wanker Bob 379]

It wouldn't have to raise prices too much. Just have the capability to activate the winter production that gets intentionally shut down within 5-7 days. Don't shut it all down 100 percent keep it at least at emergency readiness. There's zero indication they even tried to do anything to begin excess production that was turned off for the winter with over a week's notice of this thing. 

[Macanudo 12976]

But downtown Houston was lit up like a Christmas tree las night.   So we have that going for us, which is nice.

 

 

 

 

[Pig Bellmont 8713]

26 minutes ago, cactusflinthead said:

 

Good point about Abbott- it’s a shame he will be elected in a landslide

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

 

[Nivek 16923]

 

Wasn’t it his buddy that said old people are willing to die for our economy?

[cactusflinthead 27598]

22 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

Texans are going to need to decide if they want to pay more for their electricity.  Because increased regulation and a change to the market to incentivize infrastructure (Texas is currently an energy only market with) is going to result in higher prices for electricity.    

 

I'd really like to see a breakdown of the states north of us and what they are going to pay. Apparently it's an issue that is happening only here. I don't see any bitching from the other side of the Red River.

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19100]

3 minutes ago, cactusflinthead said:

I'd really like to see a breakdown of the states north of us and what they are going to pay. Apparently it's an issue that is happening only here. I don't see any bitching from the other side of the Red River.

https://www.electricrate.com/electricity-rates-by-state/

[cactusflinthead 27598]

Since I doubt he'll come in here.

 

[cactusflinthead 27598]

 

[cactusflinthead 27598]

12 minutes ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

https://www.electricrate.com/electricity-rates-by-state/

I picked a random city in OK.

74465 Tahlequah

https://www.electricrate.com/ratefinder/pub/index.php?action=Search%3ARate&ratefinder_custtype=Residential&ratefinder_zipcode=74465

And then it says hey uh we ain't got it. Then there's a list of states and providers. It seems to be a rather short list.

So, how much is a kw in OK?

And then I found this.

PEDCO DC

Their highest rate is less than mine.

Edited February 16, 2021 by cactusflinthead

[Haphap 741]

this did not age well
 

 

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19100]

Oklahoma and part of Texas are the SPP.  That is all run a bit differently than the major liquid markets like CAISO, NYISO, PJM, NEPOOL, and ERCOT.

Look at pricing in PJM, NYISO, NEPOOL.  Significantly higher.  All of these markets incentivize capacity and investment.  

[Pig Bellmont 8713]

Congratulations on being pricks - what do you have to say now?

[Francisco 2.0 32389]

3 minutes ago, cactusflinthead said:

 

So, how much is a kw in OK?

Here you go; the most recent bill I had, along with our history over the past 12 months.

Some reference; home is 22 years old, 2 story, 3600 sq foot.  Gas heat, hot water and stove.  Gas bill for the same period of time was $121 or so.

The largest electric bill last summer was August at $245.

[Bojack 2077]

This is a catastrophe far worse than most people realize.  Broken water pipes, tankless water heaters freezing on the outside of houses that have no power, shortages of all the materials needed to fix the broken pipes, never enough plumbers.  It's going to be fucking biblical.  Some people are going to be without water for a while until all this shit can be fixed.  This will certainly be the worst natural disaster in the history of Austin and will be one of the worst ever in Texas.  The power losses make it so much worse than it would've been otherwise.  I'd like to think Abbott's head will roll but I'm sure most people will blame the hippies for wind and solar or the Austin City Council or some shit.  

[Nice Guy Eddie 13511]

I predict nothing will happen. Yeah, a few people may get fired but Abbott is going to be on the side of the consumer AND on the side of business that generates power and profits. He takes both sides on everything when it benefits him. 

There is no way the Texas govt and majority of elected officials will want to regulate the industry including new prep requirements. I wouldn't be surprised if Abbott calls this a success for deregulation because NEXT TIME, the power generation companies will see how much profit there is to be gained by better preparation.

In fairness, the failure of deregulation here doesn't mean that a regulated industry would have been a success either.

[Francisco 2.0 32389]

1 minute ago, Bojack said:

This will certainly be the worst natural disaster in the history of Austin and will be one of the worst ever in Texas.  The power losses make it so much worse than it would've been otherwise.  I'd like to think Abbott's head will roll but I'm sure most people will blame the hippies for wind and solar or the Austin City Council or some shit.  

At the very least, it will.

 

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19100]

Here are some articles about what is going on from a power and nat gas market side.  

This is almost exactly like the Polar Vortex in 2014 that say NY, NE, and Chicago get fucking hammered.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-02-15/texas-power-retailers-in-face-of-freeze-please-leave-us?sref=knoriXqz

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-02-15/natural-gas-skyrockets-again-to-500-as-blackouts-spread-in-u-s?srnd=premium&sref=knoriXqz

ERCOT has been flirting with adding a capacity market.  That needs to happen pronto.  The energy only market does nothing to incentivize improvements.  

[cactusflinthead 27598]

There's no one making the upgrades. 

[gmr548 16576]

Abbott is going to go into an election having overseen the ERCOT/PUC mess, spent four years on his knees for Trump, going against public opinion on mask mandates, Texas being among the worst per capita vaccination states, and loudly opposing popular stimulus/relief policy out of the Biden administration.

And he will win comfortably.

[Js1 85313]

1 hour ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

Texans are going to need to decide if they want to pay more for their electricity.  Because increased regulation and a change to the market to incentivize infrastructure (Texas is currently an energy only market with) is going to result in higher prices for electricity.    

 

Infrastructure, you say? Well shit, if Texas had real representation in Congress and not the likes of Cruz, Cornyn, Gohmert, etc, they’d be lobbying the Biden admin to include energy infrastructure in the infrastructure bill and be negotiating to get Texas a cut. 

But government bad. Socialism! POOR PEOPLE! 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

3 minutes ago, gmr548 said:

win comfortably.

Sitting down? 

[cactusflinthead 27598]

 

[Foosters 17850]

Lol at conservatives saying "but this was an unforeseeable weather event that surely will never happen again" while lecturing California about the state's grid not being able to handle sustained temps over 120F.

[formermav43 4606]

2 minutes ago, cactusflinthead said:

 

I’d like to see a link on that other than a tweet. Not because I don’t believe it, but because I’d like to be able to reference that data.

[Js1 85313]

1 minute ago, Foosters said:

Lol at conservatives saying "but this was an unforeseeable weather event that surely will never happen again" while lecturing California about the state's grid not being able to handle sustained temps over 120F.

100/500/1000 year weather event!

*Happens every 2-3 years* 

[phdhorn 6224]

I'm just calling in to say thank you for starting this discussion here.  It's fucking up the weather thread badly and I hope folks move over here. Thanks.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13511]

9 minutes ago, gmr548 said:

Abbott is going to go into an election having overseen the ERCOT/PUC mess, spent four years on his knees for Trump, going against public opinion on mask mandates, Texas being among the worst per capita vaccination states, and loudly opposing popular stimulus/relief policy out of the Biden administration.

And he will win comfortably.

100% this. 

[Dr. Teeth 5844]

At least there isn’t a commodities trading firm in California trying to take advantage of the situation to make it 10x worse. 

[Hookah Horns 3083]

This is fucked. I'm in Lakewood and haven't lost power at all. 

[cactusflinthead 27598]

5 minutes ago, phdhorn said:

I'm just calling in to say thank you for starting this discussion here.  It's fucking up the weather thread badly and I hope folks move over here. Thanks.

I should have started it yesterday.

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19100]

Oil production down 2M bbls per day due to the cold as well.  

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-02-16/blizzard-cuts-u-s-oil-output-by-over-2-million-barrels-a-day?srnd=premium&sref=knoriXqz

 

[Aqua Buddha 14590]

17 minutes ago, gmr548 said:

Abbott is going to go into an election having overseen the ERCOT/PUC mess, spent four years on his knees for Trump, going against public opinion on mask mandates, Texas being among the worst per capita vaccination states, and loudly opposing popular stimulus/relief policy out of the Biden administration.

And he will win comfortably.

I predict he won't win running away with it.

[Fudge Nuggets 19190]

Everytime there's an increase in electricity demand, Entergy goes straight to "rolling blackouts" that last at least 12 hours.  I have seen this over and over the last two years I've been here and am sure it's been going on way before that.  Hey assholes, maybe invest a little money in your ghetto ass infrastructure so people don't have to die during abnormal conditions.  But that would eat into profits and we can't be having any of that.

These cunts piss me off so fucking bad.  I've lived in third world shithole countries with more reliable power than this.

[gmr548 16576]

Everytime there's an increase in electricity demand, Entergy goes straight to "rolling blackouts" that last at least 12 hours.  I have seen this over and over the last two years I've been here and am sure it's been going on way before that.  Hey assholes, maybe invest a little money in your ghetto ass infrastructure so people don't have to die during abnormal conditions.  But that would eat into profits and we can't be having any of that.
These cunts piss me off so fucking bad.  I've lived in third world shithole countries with more reliable power than this.

We are a third world shithole country. Mexico or Brazil are closer peers to us than Canada.

[kevwun 15774]

I think in a few months when most folks forget about this, I'm going to invest in a whole home propane generator.  Fuck depending on this State for anything.

[Michael Knight 12977]

So do we have to wait for the ice to melt before we storm the capital?

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

 

17 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Sitting down? 

He'll roll to another victory. 

12 minutes ago, Foosters said:

Lol at conservatives saying "but this was an unforeseeable weather event that surely will never happen again" while lecturing California about the state's grid not being able to handle sustained temps over 120F.

Yeah the thing is this isn't Texas's first cold snap like this. I don't remember there being an enormous days-long clusterfuck back in the '80s when these used to occur  a little more often. I think the problem is that as population has increased by millions, ERCOT has been busy cutting corners instead of beefing up emergency capacity. 

Texas pop 1990: 17 million

2020: 29.4 million

Add in 30 years of deregulation and cost-cutting neglect, stir, and wallah!* Epic disaster. 

I would say I don't understand the thinking on the part of ERCOT that allowed them to believe that this is just one of those things like Harvey that is just so off the charts extreme that it's not worth it to plan for, but A) this is nowhere as extreme as Harvey; B) things like it have happened before and will always happen, likely more frequently than ever thanks to that climate change shit that is really just libtard fiction**; and C) they knew this and just DGAF because they will not be held accountable and will in all likelihood kick the can down the road until it happens again because this state's voters are majority brainwashed morons.

 

 

*I know. It's an old Shaggy trope

** Sarcasm font