ERCOT, PUC, and deregulation got us here

[TwiceHorn 31311]

39 minutes ago, ndawg said:

The puzzling thing to me is that if you take away management methodologies like six sigma, you don't go back to some magical time when American managers were dynamic, creative leaders who started in the mailroom and never lost touch with the work as they climbed the corporate ladder. You're actually just back at Sloan style modern management, which essentially prioritizes... you guessed it... trimming excess capacity and cost cutting above all else.

Yep, the gulf between management and skilled labor would have played a role, but management would have had to do something first  before that gulf became evident.

[Continental Op 3934]

3 hours ago, Foosters said:

Its like none of you ever played Sim City.

Next up we will debate ERCOT preparation for simultaneous earthquake, flood, and monster attack.

 

[Continental Op 3934]

3 hours ago, kevwun said:

I posted this in a thread on DT, but am reposting here.  We have had 2 historical floods, a global pandemic and a historical freeze in the last 5 or 6 years.  This shit isn't a black swan event, it's the new reality we live in.  Once in a lifetime insert disaster here has lost all meaning. We can't even seemingly go a year without something historically catastrophic happening. 

Shit man UT football has had a Charlie Strong and a Tom Herman in the last decade. 

[sidis 9759]

1 hour ago, Goredho said:

Yeah, I don't know shit about seasteading, except that it really appeals to this friend who's pure market-economy ideology keeps getting threatened by world events.  

well i know of a few world events that might end up threatening that utterly dumbfuck idea...category 5 hurricanes, cyclones, tsunamis, blue whale mating, ceaseless wind...but yeah, no.  a floating house in the ocean to test hayek's theories is definitely not likely to turn into at best, the lord of the flies and, at worst, a fatal disaster.

i searched that site and blog entries for a discussion of how to account for things like that and all of it was discussion on the challenges of separating from u.s. governance or maritime law.  virtually no discussion on overcoming the technical challenges in implementing this concept.  i was as surprised as you that a website that was so well done /rolleyes would be so weak on substance.  but then...i found the ambassadors.  now that is some good shit.

meet jessica love...Jessica Love is best known for her work as an activist in the Free State Project including coordinating PorcFest and Liberty Forum along with her own project initiatives Community Market Day, Porc Family Connection, and other local business and community building events. She is an unschooler, natural mama, and entrepreneur. Her current focus is on launching her exciting Luv Java brand while expanding the free market and spreading the message of Life, Love, and Liberty.

[Ted Lange 16054]

You know who I don’t feel sorry for, THESE folks.  You signed up with Griddy and found the fuck out.  
 

 

[DonkeyCigars 144]

4 minutes ago, Ted Lange said:

You know who I don’t feel sorry for, THESE folks.  You signed up with Griddy and found the fuck out.  
 

 

This week was the first I had heard of Griddy. This is some service to try and optimize energy pricing and game the system? Is that why people are unsympathetic because they were taking a known risk?

[FondrenRoad 4378]

29 minutes ago, The Ace of Aces said:

Oh, ya, I was being a smartass (sorry). TMI closing was a huge thing here. 

What did they do with the Godzilla egg when they closed?

[freyguy 4245]

1 hour ago, ndawg said:

The puzzling thing to me is that if you take away management methodologies like six sigma, you don't go back to some magical time when American managers were dynamic, creative leaders who started in the mailroom and never lost touch with the work as they climbed the corporate ladder. You're actually just back at Sloan style modern management, which essentially prioritizes... you guessed it... trimming excess capacity and cost cutting above all else.

buddy, you're all over the place with this one.  I don't even know where to begin...

[Ted Lange 16054]

5 minutes ago, DonkeyCigars said:

This week was the first I had heard of Griddy. This is some service to try and optimize energy pricing and game the system? Is that why people are unsympathetic because they were taking a known risk?

You get retail prices, which fluctuate.  Gritty claims 96% of the time your kWh is lower than you’d get from a typical provider.   They have an app where you can see what you are being charged in real-time and make decisions on your energy consumption.

People went out and chose this service over your standard locked in rate, in hopes of cheaper energy.  They knew what they were signing up for.   They also could have just cut off their power, which most of the state had happen anyway with out a choice.

These folks gambled, they were paying 20-50% less for electricity for 11 months, then CRAPPED OUT.   Tough fucking shit.  

[DonkeyCigars 144]

2 minutes ago, Ted Lange said:

You get retail prices, which fluctuate.  Gritty claims 96% of the time your kWh is lower than you’d get from a typical provider.   They have an app where you can see what you are being charged in real-time and make decisions on your energy consumption.

People went out and chose this service over your standard locked in rate, in hopes of cheaper energy.  They knew what they were signing up for.   They also could have just cut off their power, which most of the state had happen anyway with out a choice.

These folks gambled, they were paying 20-50% less for electricity for 11 months, then CRAPPED OUT.   Tough fucking shit.  

Gotcha. that 4% chance of paying 500% more for electricity came up snake eyes. I doubt people made enough in savings during the other 96% to even halve what they lost. Interesting.

[Ted Lange 16054]

I only know about it because they used to advertise on Houston sports radio a few years ago.  I read their webpage and hard pass.  

[Continental Op 3934]

I have zero problem with people gambling on their electric bill on Griddy until they get one cent in public assistance for those $4000 bills this month.

[Goredho 17354]

35 minutes ago, sidis said:

well i know of a few world events that might end up threatening that utterly dumbfuck idea...category 5 hurricanes, cyclones, tsunamis, blue whale mating, ceaseless wind...but yeah, no.  a floating house in the ocean to test hayek's theories is definitely not likely to turn into at best, the lord of the flies and, at worst, a fatal disaster.

i searched that site and blog entries for a discussion of how to account for things like that and all of it was discussion on the challenges of separating from u.s. governance or maritime law.  virtually no discussion on overcoming the technical challenges in implementing this concept.  i was as surprised as you that a website that was so well done /rolleyes would be so weak on substance.  but then...i found the ambassadors.  now that is some good shit.

meet jessica love...Jessica Love is best known for her work as an activist in the Free State Project including coordinating PorcFest and Liberty Forum along with her own project initiatives Community Market Day, Porc Family Connection, and other local business and community building events. She is an unschooler, natural mama, and entrepreneur. Her current focus is on launching her exciting Luv Java brand while expanding the free market and spreading the message of Life, Love, and Liberty.

I'm pretty sure I saw Jessica Love getting gangbanged at Burning Man in 2019, NTTIAWWT.  It's all kind of a blur, though.

I posed the question to my buddy if any Seasteads actually exist, and he said there is one off of Panama where they are busy 3D printing houses, but there are only a few up.  You can pay $50,000 to reserve a spot on the Seastead island when it is completed, and he's strongly considering a buy.  They only accept cryptocurrency, so you know its on the up and up.
 

Edited February 19, 2021 by Goredho

[Sawbonz 27445]

3 hours ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

So let's put this the way y'all seem to like. Half or two thirds of the state was too dumb to properly prepare for this storm. Including most of the people reading this. Yet we expect the government to be more competent than a collection of degenerate lawyers? What exactly are y'all smoking, and why aren't you sharing?

Go fuck yourself

[Guest Lobo]

Some glimmer of hope, the half-baked attempt by the state leaders and the media to paint this as a complete fault of renewable energy have largely failed.  I don't pay attention to NewsMax or OANN, but most of the others have largely given up on that narrative attempt.  We have a blended energy portfolio, and in a spectacularly blended way...it failed us in our darkest hour.  Heads need to roll.  Governors need to roll.  

[Ted Lange 16054]

7 minutes ago, Continental Op said:

I have zero problem with people gambling on their electric bill on Griddy until they get one cent in public assistance for those $4000 bills this month.

Yeah, my problem isn’t about them signing up for the service, my issue is those bitches crying now and the media framing them as victims.  

[Sawbonz 27445]

2 hours ago, Goredho said:

Funny you say that.  I have about one serious pure capitalist conservative friend left, and I had to bust his balls a bit.  Sent him a text asking him if he had survived the winter storm market correction, he responded "fuck you."  Then I sent him the link to the Denton city council meeting where they are facing electric bills for the last 4 days in excess of 3 times what they usually pay in a year and asked if he felt like there needed to be municipal bailouts, or if that was dirty socialism.  He sent me a link to https://www.seasteading.org/about/ and told me he's moving onto one as soon as his youngest graduates (age 16).

So there you go, someone who doesn't want to acknowledge that we live in a society who is going to willingly jump onto a big fucking barge to be shoved out into the ocean.

That dude owns at least one timeshare and a shitload of Amway products

[Guest Lobo]

Not Amway, it's Confederated Products.  It's a different company, a better quality of product. 

Edited February 19, 2021 by Lobo

[Sawbonz 27445]

9 minutes ago, Ted Lange said:

Yeah, my problem isn’t about them signing up for the service, my issue is those bitches crying now and the media framing them as victims.  

In fairness to the company apparently they saw this coming and emailed their customers last week and told them to switch plans because they were about to get bent over. Apparently not many listened

[wildcat09 29271]

11 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

In fairness to the company apparently they saw this coming and emailed their customers last week and told them to switch plans because they were about to get bent over. Apparently not many listened

That was purely for PR. You can’t switch in the short window they gave customers and they knew that. I’m not going to feel too bad because their subscribers knew the risk when they signed up, but the company doesn’t deserve credit for that email.

[JimmyJames 12271]

6 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Yep, we need an administrative state.  But it comes with its own problems.   I'm seeing that some of the new bills direct ERCOT to promulgate rules and policies, etc.  In some ways, that feels like a copout, but it's probably better than having fools like Jared Patterson make the rules/laws.

What we need is a governor and legislature that give a shit about Texans and not their own personal ambition. We don’t have that because we keep electing republican assholes who want to be president instead of the governor of Texas.

[Eastwood 4394]

4 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

In fairness to the company apparently they saw this coming and emailed their customers last week and told them to switch plans because they were about to get bent over. Apparently not many listened

They were begging people to switch. Griddy is holding the bag until their customers pay.

Since this has become the electric bill thread, CPS Energy CEO said they are crunching the numbers non-stop and looking to spread the cost over 10 years or longer. That's one solution, but in all honesty, some kind of compromise needs to be made across the board. This isn't the consumer's mess. This is a shared failure of the Texas government, ERCOT, PUC, and the energy producers. It was a failure from the top down that had nothing to do with the consumer.

If I had entered into a transaction for a commodity and found out that the company selling me the commodity committed negligence and that negligence caused them to charge me 10,000% more than anywhere else, you bet your ass we're going to court. This is going to be a multi-billion dollar battle before this is all said and done.

[ndawg 1242]

48 minutes ago, freyguy said:

buddy, you're all over the place with this one.  I don't even know where to begin...

If it weren't super off-topic, I'd be happy if you explained the error in my understanding. I'm not going to claim to be an expert on the subject matter, but I do have a personal interest in the study of management theory and would appreciate any correction (or, really, which books to read to get a richer perspective).

[Sawbonz 27445]

18 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

That was purely for PR. You can’t switch in the short window they gave customers and they knew that. I’m not going to feel too bad because their subscribers knew the risk when they signed up, but the company doesn’t deserve credit for that email.

I honestly don’t know but IIRC their radio ads said no contract switch at any time. I think a week’s heads up is enough. 

[Ojo Rojo 1908]

3 hours ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

So let's put this the way y'all seem to like. Half or two thirds of the state was too dumb to properly prepare for this storm. Including most of the people reading this. Yet we expect the government to be more competent than a collection of degenerate lawyers? What exactly are y'all smoking, and why aren't you sharing?

Not every effect has personal responsibility as its cause.  I know a lot of conservatives think that's all there is to anything, but that's not accurate.  There are very complex systems in play that affect us all. Way bigger than what one person can effect on their own. No man is an island.  We're all connected, whether we like it or not.  Your choices affect me and vice versa.  Pretending otherwise is a fairy tale.

This wasn't a failure because 2/3 of the population was too dumb.  (For the record, this degenerate lawyer winterized his own house and had no busted pipes.) This was a failure at a higher, institutional level.  Industry, regulators and state government are responsible.  They made choices that caused this to happen.  I'm not saying that they made the wrong choice even.  There is at least a reasonable basis for the decision.  But make no mistake, the people who made those choices did so primarily to avoid costs and increase profits. People know what to do because they are doing it already everywhere but here. That's a policy decision, ultimately.  So choose - do you want to have really cheap energy and companies in that industry that are profitable and as a consequence shit like this happens every 10-20 years, or do you want to have more expensive energy and companies in the industry with lower profits and this never happens.  No right or wrong answer; it's a matter of priorities, which is all any policy decision is at the end of the day.

[JimmyJames 12271]

4 hours ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

So let's put this the way y'all seem to like. Half or two thirds of the state was too dumb to properly prepare for this storm. Including most of the people reading this. Yet we expect the government to be more competent than a collection of degenerate lawyers? What exactly are y'all smoking, and why aren't you sharing?

What the fuck is the matter with you? Do you even live in Texas? Or are you just shittrolling here.

[TwiceHorn 31311]

1 hour ago, Ted Lange said:

You get retail prices, which fluctuate.  Gritty claims 96% of the time your kWh is lower than you’d get from a typical provider.   They have an app where you can see what you are being charged in real-time and make decisions on your energy consumption.

People went out and chose this service over your standard locked in rate, in hopes of cheaper energy.  They knew what they were signing up for.   They also could have just cut off their power, which most of the state had happen anyway with out a choice.

These folks gambled, they were paying 20-50% less for electricity for 11 months, then CRAPPED OUT.   Tough fucking shit.  

I think it's actually wholesale price, rather than retail, which makes it an even wilder ride.

Variable rate retail plans, which are common, don't have this kind of exposure.  Some, but not like this.

Griddy makes/made its money from the membership fee, not the markup on kWhr.

[JimmyJames 12271]

4 hours ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

The point is that the folks who are working for the energy companies are the same individuals who's pipes froze, same as you. I'm not making excuses, I'm simply saying we shouldn't be trying to crucify a bunch of folks for not being smarter than we were. Yeah, we can learn from this and make things better. But we can also throw 100 billion dollars at it and still see significant outages. Some times we just need to chalk stuff up to "shit happens, and how can we not make it happen again" instead of trying to figure out who to disfigure. 

Ok I’m convinced. 
 

You are just fucking trolling here, including a bunch of people actually suffering. You are a rush Limbaugh level piece of shit. Rot in hell.

[TwiceHorn 31311]

25 minutes ago, Ojo Rojo said:

Not every effect has personal responsibility as its cause.  I know a lot of conservatives think that's all there is to anything, but that's not accurate.  There are very complex systems in play that affect us all. Way bigger than what one person can effect on their own. No man is an island.  We're all connected, whether we like it or not.  Your choices affect me and vice versa.  Pretending otherwise is a fairy tale.

This wasn't a failure because 2/3 of the population was too dumb.  (For the record, this degenerate lawyer winterized his own house and had no busted pipes.) This was a failure at a higher, institutional level.  Industry, regulators and state government are responsible.  They made choices that caused this to happen.  I'm not saying that they made the wrong choice even.  There is at least a reasonable basis for the decision.  But make no mistake, the people who made those choices did so primarily to avoid costs and increase profits. People know what to do because they are doing it already everywhere but here. That's a policy decision, ultimately.  So choose - do you want to have really cheap energy and companies in that industry that are profitable and as a consequence shit like this happens every 10-20 years, or do you want to have more expensive energy and companies in the industry with lower profits and this never happens.  No right or wrong answer; it's a matter of priorities, which is all any policy decision is at the end of the day.

Solid post, ya degenerate.

The grotesque thing is that a lot of generation companies are not massively profitable.  More like marginally.  That doesn't mean they don't make certain people a shit ton of money, including the pols they pay off.

[JimmyJames 12271]

4 hours ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

So let's put this the way y'all seem to like. Half or two thirds of the state was too dumb to properly prepare for this storm. Including most of the people reading this. Yet we expect the government to be more competent than a collection of degenerate lawyers? What exactly are y'all smoking, and why aren't you sharing?

Just reposting this so the board can know on a new page what a complete piece of shit we are dealing with here.

[Dahobbs 17454]

28 minutes ago, Ojo Rojo said:

Not every effect has personal responsibility as its cause.  I know a lot of conservatives think that's all there is to anything, but that's not accurate.  There are very complex systems in play that affect us all. Way bigger than what one person can effect on their own. No man is an island.  We're all connected, whether we like it or not.  Your choices affect me and vice versa.  Pretending otherwise is a fairy tale.

This wasn't a failure because 2/3 of the population was too dumb.  (For the record, this degenerate lawyer winterized his own house and had no busted pipes.) This was a failure at a higher, institutional level.  Industry, regulators and state government are responsible.  They made choices that caused this to happen.  I'm not saying that they made the wrong choice even.  There is at least a reasonable basis for the decision.  But make no mistake, the people who made those choices did so primarily to avoid costs and increase profits. People know what to do because they are doing it already everywhere but here. That's a policy decision, ultimately.  So choose - do you want to have really cheap energy and companies in that industry that are profitable and as a consequence shit like this happens every 10-20 years, or do you want to have more expensive energy and companies in the industry with lower profits and this never happens.  No right or wrong answer; it's a matter of priorities, which is all any policy decision is at the end of the day.

I'll 100% say that. They made the wrong, short-sighted choice. They made an economically inefficient choice if one were to look at the big picture of total costs (i.e., this shut down, and the deaths and misery it caused) associated with it. But, they did so because (1) those costs were external to them and there wasn't a system setup to capture them, and (2) they didn't have strong enough moral convictions to care about those costs in spite of the lack of a proper economic system to account for the true cost of their choices. 

[Bullneck 19023]

3 hours ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

I'm more saying the whole management culture is at fault. Everybody is quick to throw blame around and say we should fix this, but we are stuck in the same rut that got us here. We can throw as much mo et as we want at it, but we will always have these issues because the have a management class that doesn't actually know that much about how to make things run. Instead of sending people to get their six sigma certifications, we need to send them down to the trenches. Once they see how things actually work and the reasons they don't they can actually make management decisions that will be effective.

Interesting take.  I live in NJ and the weather in Texas over the last week is pretty much an every week occurrence for four months of the year.  You don't think anyone knows how to make that work?

[Bullneck 19023]

4 hours ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

So let's put this the way y'all seem to like. Half or two thirds of the state was too dumb to properly prepare for this storm. Including most of the people reading this. Yet we expect the government to be more competent than a collection of degenerate lawyers? What exactly are y'all smoking, and why aren't you sharing?

I'm not sure I understand your post. Do you not expect that the utility infrastructure would be capable of withstanding a storm half of the rest of the country views as ordinary winter weather?  What "preparations" should one take?  

[JimmyJames 12271]

2 minutes ago, Bullneck said:

I'm not sure I understand your post. Do you not expect that the utility infrastructure would be capable of withstanding a storm half of the rest of the country views as ordinary winter weather?  What "preparations" should one take?  

There is nothing to understand. The guy you are quoting is a complete piece of shit.

As for what preparations one should undertake, one should prepare to never vote for another republican as long as they live unless they want this shit to happen again.

Edited February 20, 2021 by JimmyJames

[Biff Tannen 45506]

4 hours ago, wildcat09 said:

I'm about to the point where I start seriously advocating that we just round up everyone who doesn't want to acknowledge that we live in a society, put them on a big fucking barge, and we shove it out into the ocean. I'll fucking run for Congress on this plan.  Let them live out their dumb fucking Randian utopian fairytale where they don't routinely get a bunch of the rest of us killed.

You got my vote.

[Biff Tannen 45506]

2 hours ago, sidis said:

best known for her work as an activist in the Free State Project including coordinating PorcFest

[gmr548 16529]

Shit man UT football has had a Charlie Strong and a Tom Herman in the last decade. 

Don’t fucking football board the CR

[fakebusiness 129]

6 hours ago, fakebusiness said:

Statistics show we live in the safest time in human history. 

The downvotes are expected. Steven Pinker takes a lot of flack for his evidence based research on this topic. 

[Biff Tannen 45506]

6 minutes ago, fakebusiness said:

The downvotes are expected. Steven Pinker takes a lot of flack for his evidence based research on this topic. 

You're just being purposely obtuse and it annoys people.

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

5 hours ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

So let's put this the way y'all seem to like. Half or two thirds of the state was too dumb to properly prepare for this storm. Including most of the people reading this. Yet we expect the government to be more competent than a collection of degenerate lawyers? What exactly are y'all smoking, and why aren't you sharing?

Half or two thirds of the state is dumb enough to elect the politicians that created his mess and will not do anything to fix it, so this dickhead is right, but for the wrong reasons. 

[The Ace of Aces 5106]

My niece in Houston got a $202,000 bill from CenterPoint today. Good job, good effort.

[Dahobbs 17454]

1 minute ago, The Ace of Aces said:

My niece in Houston got a $202,000 bill from CenterPoint today. Good job, good effort.

Those were in error. Centerpoint sent around an email about it. 

[Guest Lobo]

1 minute ago, Dahobbs said:

Those were in error. Centerpoint sent around an email about it. 

You're right.  I ran the numbers.  It was only supposed to be for $201,037.  Praise Greg Abbott.  Heads will roll.  Then Governors. 

[Ted Lange 16054]

3 minutes ago, The Ace of Aces said:

My niece in Houston got a $202,000 bill from CenterPoint today. Good job, good effort.

Pics?

[TwiceHorn 31311]

Here is what appears to be a pretty accurate piece on WSJ.  It stands in marked contrast to that earlier doggerel on their op ed page. 

Quote

The core problem: Power providers can reap rewards by supplying electricity to Texas customers, but they aren’t required to do it and face no penalties for failing to deliver during a lengthy emergency.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/texas-freeze-power-grid-failure-electricity-market-incentives-11613777856

Edited February 20, 2021 by TwiceHorn

[The Ace of Aces 5106]

10 minutes ago, Ted Lange said:

Pics?

Yup 

[MoJames 8241]

Auto Pay would be a bitch right now.

[TwiceHorn 31311]

That's a fairly well-reported glitch.  CenterPoint has retracted those emails.

Apparently, though, Griddy debits your account daily or more frequently than monthly, so people were really getting cornholed.

Edited February 20, 2021 by TwiceHorn

[Sawbonz 27445]

2 hours ago, Ojo Rojo said:

Not every effect has personal responsibility as its cause.  I know a lot of conservatives think that's all there is to anything, but that's not accurate.  There are very complex systems in play that affect us all. Way bigger than what one person can effect on their own. No man is an island.  We're all connected, whether we like it or not.  Your choices affect me and vice versa.  Pretending otherwise is a fairy tale.

This wasn't a failure because 2/3 of the population was too dumb.  (For the record, this degenerate lawyer winterized his own house and had no busted pipes.) This was a failure at a higher, institutional level.  Industry, regulators and state government are responsible.  They made choices that caused this to happen.  I'm not saying that they made the wrong choice even.  There is at least a reasonable basis for the decision.  But make no mistake, the people who made those choices did so primarily to avoid costs and increase profits. People know what to do because they are doing it already everywhere but here. That's a policy decision, ultimately.  So choose - do you want to have really cheap energy and companies in that industry that are profitable and as a consequence shit like this happens every 10-20 years, or do you want to have more expensive energy and companies in the industry with lower profits and this never happens.  No right or wrong answer; it's a matter of priorities, which is all any policy decision is at the end of the day.

These assholes don’t give a fuck unless they are or one of their immediate family members is in imminent threat of death or serious bodily harm. And for some not even then

[Sawbonz 27445]

27 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

Half or two thirds of the state is dumb enough to elect the politicians that created his mess and will not do anything to fix it, so this dickhead is right, but for the wrong reasons. 

And that’s fair