What are y’all buying for the next grid failure?

[TKthunder2 5059]

Briefly talked to my electrician who said he’d just recommend a manual transfer system.  Said it’s extremely easy to just flips off the breakers before starting the generator manually when we lose power.  I probably wouldn’t run it if it was just off for a little bit so that seems like a good option but wasn’t sure if anyone had issues with a manual setup on here.

[phdhorn 6225]

10 hours ago, Grimas said:

Don't buy more generator than you need.  See my post 394 in this thread.  

Don't buy more generator than you can use - if you put in a 30A connection, a generator larger than 7500W is useless. 

• The max power you can put into a 30A switch is 7200W.

If you get a larger generator like 12000W, you've better off going with a 50A transfer switch...

Watts / Volts = Amps

• A 7200W Gen is only really capable of feeding 30 Amps @ 240V (7200W/240V=30A) If you get a bigger generator like a 12000W unit, go for 50A @240V transfer switch. (12000W/240V=50A)

 

Thx for the comments.

I purposely had a 50 amp inlet box installed to take over 72kw.

[Your Mom 4969]

I bought half a chord of firewood. 

[phdhorn 6225]

10 minutes ago, Your Mom said:

I bought half a chord of firewood. 

*cord

[Your Mom 4969]

What if I make a guitar from it? 

[phdhorn 6225]

Then that's Kuhorrd.

[Grimas 674]

8 hours ago, TKthunder2 said:

Briefly talked to my electrician who said he’d just recommend a manual transfer system.  Said it’s extremely easy to just flips off the breakers before starting the generator manually when we lose power.  I probably wouldn’t run it if it was just off for a little bit so that seems like a good option but wasn’t sure if anyone had issues with a manual setup on here.

I went the manual route. Power goes out, i slide the lockout bar in the breaker box, plug in cable from generator to wall and the start the generator. I could have gone the auto-start route but I didn't think it was worth the cost ($2-3k more) for the convenience... Ask me again after I have to do it at 2am with rain blowing sideways and I may have a different opinion... 

[TexasEd 8266]

9 minutes ago, Grimas said:

I went the manual route. Power goes out, i slide the lockout bar in the breaker box, plug in cable from generator to wall and the start the generator. I could have gone the auto-start route but I didn't think it was worth the cost ($2-3k more) for the convenience... Ask me again after I have to do it at 2am with rain blowing sideways and I may have a different opinion... 

I have not done any of these upgrades but when I think about the scenario, I think we would sit in the dark for a while during any storm.  In those cases the power may just be off temporarily anyway.  I would want the generator for the 3 hour plus events.  Power off 15 minutes is not a real challenge.

So I would wait for the storm to pass and then go flip the switch.  If I was going with Solar and battery then I think the automatic would make more sense and be more like a whole house UPS.

[TKthunder2 5059]

2 hours ago, Grimas said:

I went the manual route. Power goes out, i slide the lockout bar in the breaker box, plug in cable from generator to wall and the start the generator. I could have gone the auto-start route but I didn't think it was worth the cost ($2-3k more) for the convenience... Ask me again after I have to do it at 2am with rain blowing sideways and I may have a different opinion... 

That was my thought too. Unless we’ve are below 32 degrees, we could make it without power for a few hours at night.  Even then we’d be waking up the kids and pulling them into the our room/office so doing some manual steps doesn’t seem like a big deal.  Also in the event of another 100 year winter storm it would seem wise to save the propane as much as possible and only use it in spurts. Seeing the generac has a combo generator and battery wall system that looks intriguing. 

[phdhorn 6225]

12 hours ago, TKthunder2 said:

Briefly talked to my electrician who said he’d just recommend a manual transfer system.  Said it’s extremely easy to just flips off the breakers before starting the generator manually when we lose power.  I probably wouldn’t run it if it was just off for a little bit so that seems like a good option but wasn’t sure if anyone had issues with a manual setup on here.

This is essentially what I just did.  I'd have to roll the generator about 60 feet around my house, but I have a place to set up on the deck.  Then I simply will take the bigass chord with the bigass European style plg and put it into the bigass socket.  Start yon engine and then hit interlock and breakers and we're (hopefully) in business.

I agree that almost all power outages aren't a big deal for the first hour or so, so I didn't really want the expense and overkill of a Generac on a slab.  Plus they eat up propane, and I wanted gas and gasoline.  

If I hear of a big freeze coming I'll go fill up a 10 gallon can and that should get me through a couple of days (otherwise nope, not gonna store more gas than my mower needs).  

Anyway, hopefully I'll rarely need the big ol' thing but now it's in place.

[Grimas 674]

7 hours ago, TexasEd said:

I have not done any of these upgrades but when I think about the scenario, I think we would sit in the dark for a while during any storm.  In those cases the power may just be off temporarily anyway.  I would want the generator for the 3 hour plus events.  Power off 15 minutes is not a real challenge.

So I would wait for the storm to pass and then go flip the switch.  If I was going with Solar and battery then I think the automatic would make more sense and be more like a whole house 

For short term outages, I have several battery up UPS connected to fiber router, a tv and another mesh router and a led lamp that will be good enough for short outages. More than 30 minutes (especially in 95+degrees), then I fire up the generator - long enough to keep fridge and freezers cold and to run a/c to cool down the house. Something longer term like a hurricane outage and I connect it to the natural gas line..

[JMFP 1126]

8 hours ago, Grimas said:

I went the manual route. Power goes out, i slide the lockout bar in the breaker box, plug in cable from generator to wall and the start the generator. I could have gone the auto-start route but I didn't think it was worth the cost ($2-3k more) for the convenience... Ask me again after I have to do it at 2am with rain blowing sideways and I may have a different opinion... 

Kinda my plan too. In the winter I can trip the main breaker and plug my generator in to the RV plug. It should have plenty of juice to run the gas furnace and the essential loads in the house. In the summer I think we'd just plug the generator in to the camper and move into it. 

[Jkwellborn 7036]

This is essentially what I just did.  I'd have to roll the generator about 60 feet around my house, but I have a place to set up on the deck.  Then I simply will take the bigass chord with the bigass European style plg and put it into the bigass socket.  Start yon engine and then hit interlock and breakers and we're (hopefully) in business.

I agree that almost all power outages aren't a big deal for the first hour or so, so I didn't really want the expense and overkill of a Generac on a slab.  Plus they eat up propane, and I wanted gas and gasoline.  

If I hear of a big freeze coming I'll go fill up a 10 gallon can and that should get me through a couple of days (otherwise nope, not gonna store more gas than my mower needs).  

Anyway, hopefully I'll rarely need the big ol' thing but now it's in place.

10 gallons will probably last 2 days if you’re lucky. In a bad situation, that portable generator 60’ from your house may come up missing.

[Cajun 11776]

Got 3 generators and 100 gallons of GO Juice…

Edited May 30, 2022 by Cajun
Last one is 4500 watt

[Cajun 11776]

On 11/8/2021 at 5:28 PM, MissingInAction said:

 

My go bag has everything I need for 3 days(5 if I stretch it).

 

 

Damn, that’s a lot of KY and vodka!

[butthurt 1568]

42 minutes ago, Jkwellborn said:

10 gallons will probably last 2 days if you’re lucky. In a bad situation, that portable generator 60’ from your house may come up missing.

After Rita a guy I worked with had his stolen. Whoever stole it was smart enough to steal a push mower and run it while taking his generator. 

[Gatorubet 30713]

I still say buy two smaller inverter gens and parallel them for more watts rather than one big ass gen.   If one goes down for whatever reason,  you are still in the game. 

Or at least have a 2000-2500 watt inverter as a backup to your giant fuel sucking gen. 

[davidg 4057]

This is essentially what I just did.  I'd have to roll the generator about 60 feet around my house, but I have a place to set up on the deck.  Then I simply will take the bigass chord with the bigass European style plg and put it into the bigass socket.  Start yon engine and then hit interlock and breakers and we're (hopefully) in business.

I agree that almost all power outages aren't a big deal for the first hour or so, so I didn't really want the expense and overkill of a Generac on a slab.  Plus they eat up propane, and I wanted gas and gasoline.  

If I hear of a big freeze coming I'll go fill up a 10 gallon can and that should get me through a couple of days (otherwise nope, not gonna store more gas than my mower needs).  

Anyway, hopefully I'll rarely need the big ol' thing but now it's in place.

You might want to rethink the amount of gasoline it will take to run a 12kw generator.

A Northern Tool Duromax 12kw surge/9500w continuous burns 8.3 gal in 8 hrs at 50% load -4750w.

If you have an outside storage building to put them in, get 6 5 gal cans and rotate out the oldest one every month or so into a vehicle

[MissingInAction 25556]

1 hour ago, Cajun said:

Damn, that’s a lot of KY and vodka!

Bandoliers are great for these.

[Captainant 28533]

1 hour ago, Cajun said:

Got 3 generators and 100 gallons of GO Juice…

You'll want to rotate your gas supply regularly, the stuff you get at the pump won't last more than a few months in storage

[fattyflattie 4640]

20 minutes ago, Captainant said:

You'll want to rotate your gas supply regularly, the stuff you get at the pump won't last more than a few months in storage

Buccees has blue handle (non ethanol) in most locations these days.  Still need to cycle it thru, but worlds better than the alternative. 

[Cajun 11776]

24 minutes ago, Captainant said:

You'll want to rotate your gas supply regularly, the stuff you get at the pump won't last more than a few months in storage

 

 

No problems with the MasterCraft after sitting from October to April.  And I buy the non-ethanol fuel to boot.  All that said, it’s a solid point you’ve made.

Edited May 30, 2022 by Cajun

[Cajun 11776]

5 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

Buccees has blue handle (non ethanol) in most locations these days.  Still need to cycle it thru, but worlds better than the alternative. 

Spoken like a true boat guy.

[Cajun 11776]

30 minutes ago, MissingInAction said:

Bandoliers are great for these.

The mental image you’ve provided here is pure WIN.  I,award you 7 Internets!

[Cajun 11776]

1 hour ago, Gatorubet said:

I still say buy two smaller inverter gens and parallel them for more watts rather than one big ass gen.   If one goes down for whatever reason,  you are still in the game. 

Or at least have a 2000-2500 watt inverter as a backup to your giant fuel sucking gen. 

Yup.  Same strategery I’ve adopted.  Plus, it’s nice to be able to move them when necessary.

[fattyflattie 4640]

On 5/28/2022 at 10:43 PM, Grimas said:

I can run my 4k sqft house with a 5 and 3 ton a/c pluse everything inside (but oven and dryer at the same time) on 13000w including the pool pumps (vsp motors). Already had hard start kits on my a/c. Cost me around 2500  - 1300 generator, 900 for locking switch on fuse box including 50a connector and 20' cable (installed by an electrician), 200 connector from generator to dryer gas line in case propane runs out..

Can you post a bit more detail please. I had planned to do this since the freeze but it fell off my desk.  

[Grimas 674]

34 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

Can you post a bit more detail please. I had planned to do this since the freeze but it fell off my desk.  

See my post 394 in this thread. 

[fattyflattie 4640]

5 minutes ago, Grimas said:

See my post 394 in this thread. 

Yeah I remember reading it then, and saw your updated post. I’m just going to have to research it more. I can do a lot of stuff, but never dove deep into electrical.  

[Catpfish 618]

Buccees has blue handle (non ethanol) in most locations these days.  Still need to cycle it thru, but worlds better than the alternative. 

Quik Trip also carries ethanol free gasoline.

[phdhorn 6225]

11 hours ago, Jkwellborn said:

10 gallons will probably last 2 days if you’re lucky. In a bad situation, that portable generator 60’ from your house may come up missing.

Yeah, but I don't anticipate needing much more than that.  However, like I said, if I know they're forecasting a freeze or particularly bad storms, I'll load up about 80 gals - if I'm lucky enough to get warning.

The 60' isn't the distance from my house to the generator, once set up.  That's the distance I have to wheel it around the house from storage to the plug.  It's sitting 3 feet outside my window around the back part of the house... anyone trying to steal that puppy will need to drag it 2/3 of a football field to their vehicle.  Trust me, I'll know.  Plus I can lock the wheels.

Anyhoo, even with our deteriorating infrastructure, > 1 day of needing this thing to work seems very unlikely - for now. 

[Grimas 674]

On 5/30/2022 at 12:38 AM, fattyflattie said:

Yeah I remember reading it then, and saw your updated post. I’m just going to have to research it more. I can do a lot of stuff, but never dove deep into electrical.  

I'm handy but I don't do electrical and paid an electrician to do the panel work and installed the 50A connector (and A/C guy who put in the hard start setup in the units).  All I need to do is flip a switch, turn on the propane and then push start on the generator...

[fattyflattie 4640]

22 minutes ago, Grimas said:

I'm handy but I don't do electrical and paid an electrician to do the panel work and installed the 50A connector (and A/C guy who put in the hard start setup in the units).  All I need to do is flip a switch, turn on the propane and then push start on the generator...

Thx.  Yeah I’ve wired in a 50A setup at the ranch, but never installed that switch. Would be nice to have a 50a at the house when we bring the camper in to prepare for a trip.  Already have soft starts on the ACs because it’s too much to expect 10 years of trouble free these days.  Was just confused at your pricing, I guess. I recall a few months after the freeze there were guys advertising on next door and the neighborhood Facebook they’d install that switch for something like $1850. 

[TexasEd 8266]

I have not heard of these hard start kits for the AC unit before.  What is the purpose and does it have any side effects?

 

[Grimas 674]

47 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

Thx.  Yeah I’ve wired in a 50A setup at the ranch, but never installed that switch. Would be nice to have a 50a at the house when we bring the camper in to prepare for a trip.  Already have soft starts on the ACs because it’s too much to expect 10 years of trouble free these days.  Was just confused at your pricing, I guess. I recall a few months after the freeze there were guys advertising on next door and the neighborhood Facebook they’d install that switch for something like $1850. 

I had multiple quotes to do the electrical work that ranged up to $2000.  I purchased the lockout switch myself (you need one specific to your breaker box) so my main cost was for the 50A switch, the custom cable from the switch to the generator and the labor. Of course, parts are more expensive now as well...  20' cable, labor and the transfer switch were $7-800 IIRC.

[davidg 4057]

6 minutes ago, TexasEd said:

I have not heard of these hard start kits for the AC unit before.  What is the purpose and does it have any side effects?

 

$50 worth of capacitor and time delay relay that is installed in 5 minutes on the starting winding of your AC compressor motor by an electrician for $250.  It reduces the starting surge current in the compressor reducing heat in the motor when the unit is starting.  Helps out if the unit is short cycling a bunch.

 

For the generator input, Here's the thread post of the type of breaker interlock device I bought that fits my home breaker panel.  I bought the interlock, 50A breaker, wire and 50A inlet, and parts to make a crossover generator from my generator.  All sitting nicely in a box in my mess of a garage, waiting for the power to go out so I'll get up off my ass and wire it in.    I probably have less than $250 in all those parts.

[next2naus 439]

very happy with my Whole House Generac setup. As early poster described, expensive and cushy. 

[gyroprotagonist 2597]

reminds me to get my little Honda out of the garage and fire it up and check the oil.  don't think i have checked since Jan.

for those that don't want to cycle gasoline, converting to use LP is really easy with those kits out there.   

[Nice Guy Eddie 13729]

I recommend the off-brand inverter generators and not Yamaha or Honda. I'm sure the Honda or Yamaha is better quality but it's also about double the price. I would rather save some $$ and buy a new one every few years.  https://generatorpick.com/wen-vs-honda-generator/

More than double. $430 for the Wen and $1100 for the Honda. 

I recommend having a fuel cutoff switch option with these generators, or be sure to start it up every so often. Probably never hurts to fire it once per month.

[HOOKEM4 5176]

On 5/30/2022 at 12:49 AM, Catpfish said:

On 5/29/2022 at 11:46 PM, fattyflattie said:

Buccees has blue handle (non ethanol) in most locations these days.  Still need to cycle it thru, but worlds better than the alternative. 

Quik Trip also carries ethanol free gasoline.

I have noticed some randalls gas stations have ethanol free as well. 

[mooseoutfront 3647]

On 5/29/2022 at 6:42 PM, Cajun said:

Got 3 generators and 100 gallons of GO Juice…

 

FYI on the Honda EU2200i:

 

They run like shit in temps below 20 above zero unless you get the cold weather conversion kit.  I had an old Honda 2000 and that thing ran like a champ at any temp.  The new 2200's are over engineered.  The carbon monoxide detector is overly sensitive and will shut the generator down unless it is very well ventilated.  Like in the open ventilated, not even under an overhang or up close to a side wall unless there is a good breeze.

[Jkwellborn 7036]

I recommend the off-brand inverter generators and not Yamaha or Honda. I'm sure the Honda or Yamaha is better quality but it's also about double the price. I would rather save some $$ and buy a new one every few years.  https://generatorpick.com/wen-vs-honda-generator/
More than double. $430 for the Wen and $1100 for the Honda. 
I recommend having a fuel cutoff switch option with these generators, or be sure to start it up every so often. Probably never hurts to fire it once per month.

One of the guys at work has a couple of predators from Harbour Freight and they are really quiet and they’ve been trouble free for him.

[dcar00 14955]

On 5/28/2022 at 10:43 PM, Grimas said:

I can run my 4k sqft house with a 5 and 3 ton a/c pluse everything inside (but oven and dryer at the same time) on 13000w including the pool pumps (vsp motors). Already had hard start kits on my a/c. Cost me around 2500  - 1300 generator, 900 for locking switch on fuse box including 50a connector and 20' cable (installed by an electrician), 200 connector from generator to dryer gas line in case propane runs out..

great info.  I had to replace my panel so I went ahead and did the lockout switch, 50A, and plug.  I have almost the same situation as you(one VSP pool pump connected to subpanel near backyard shed) except just one 5 ton a/c.  what generator did you get? 

I know running from nat gas line gives less power than running off fuel or propane.  I'm trying to estimate generator running nat gas and want to power the a/c, 2 refrigerators, microwave, electronics and pool pump. My gas is right by my panel.  I can put in gas dryer and gas stove/oven(really would only run stove/oven, laundry can wait 4 or 5 days if needed).  what would you recommend for generator?

[UTexasFight 9817]

pissed I forgot about the sales tax free weekend last month to get a generator (to replace the one that walked off from my shed a few months ago…assholes)—but trying to get serious about a power backup/interlock install before the first brown/blackout this summer. A lot of good stuff from grimas and others.

But any electrician recs (or recs on where to start to look for one)? I’m located in central/east austin

Will be leaning on them pretty heavily for everything, from labor on install back to recommended parts/materials

[UTexasFight 9817]

And any special considerations on a transfer/interlock if solar panels are in the mix?

[WBT 20972]

On 5/29/2022 at 9:59 AM, Grimas said:

I went the manual route. Power goes out, i slide the lockout bar in the breaker box, plug in cable from generator to wall and the start the generator. 

That's what I put in after Ike.  I've only had a few extended outages since then but I've been happy with it.  I never lost power during the snowpocalypse.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13729]

To each their own, but unless you have critical medical equipment, loss of power for a short amount of time isn't harmful. Food in freezers and refrigerators aren't spoiling in the short term especially if you keep the fridge door shut. And I'm referencing the scenario where someone has to manually switch the generator on.

 

[Goofyboy 3432]

very happy with my Whole House Generac setup. As early poster described, expensive and cushy. 

After a very long 9 month wait, ours will be installed on Friday - just in time for a very hot summer and hurricane season.

[next2naus 439]

3 minutes ago, Goofyboy said:

After a very long 9 month wait, ours will be installed on Friday - just in time for a very hot summer and hurricane season.

Exactly, a summer storm two years ago motivated me. Thing kicks on every Friday at noon for a few minutes and then its on standby till it's needed. 

[Grimas 674]

3 hours ago, dcar00 said:

great info.  I had to replace my panel so I went ahead and did the lockout switch, 50A, and plug.  I have almost the same situation as you(one VSP pool pump connected to subpanel near backyard shed) except just one 5 ton a/c.  what generator did you get? 

I know running from nat gas line gives less power than running off fuel or propane.  I'm trying to estimate generator running nat gas and want to power the a/c, 2 refrigerators, microwave, electronics and pool pump. My gas is right by my panel.  I can put in gas dryer and gas stove/oven(really would only run stove/oven, laundry can wait 4 or 5 days if needed).  what would you recommend for generator?

Westinghouse WGen9500DF Dual Fuel Portable Generator 9500 Rated and 12500 Peak Watts On Amazon (right now available for $1000)

I can easily run 2 A/C compressors, 2 fridges, all electronics and pool pump (need to se the pump to run at a constant low speed and not the initial high speed ramp-up it normally does).  All house lights LED so low load.  I wouldn't try running electric dryer or electric oven without fear of tripping a breaker but who is doing laundry or baking during an outage (as cooktop) and if needed, I would just turn off one A/C unit on the panel if I needed to use either...

[Grimas 674]

2 hours ago, UTexasFight said:

And any special considerations on a transfer/interlock if solar panels are in the mix?

No clue on this one - the interlock/transfer switch (either manual or automatic) keeps power from the generator (or solar panels?) going up the line and zapping a line crew which is why it's totally illegal to plug in a generator to your 30A plug the dryer uses...  (yes. people do this...)