Nonfungible Tokens (NFT’s)

[Irieguy 1059]

24 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

i still have never seen the marketplace available to list.  does it come and go?

It wasn’t open for seeing stars this morning after I opened the pack and then when I checked later today it was open. But I had to click sell 6 times for it to post. Frustrating process but bearable. I think the marketplace is down again so they are definitely struggling with volume. 

[henrygandorf 29194]

now the whole site seems to be down.  figures.

not overly concerned, just trying to get a feel for how the system works.

[DonkeyCigars 143]

https://cointelegraph.com/news/basketball-billionaires-form-nba-blockchain-use-case-committee
 

Blockchain tech may soon become an integral part of the world’s largest basketball league. 

According to a report from Sportico yesterday, a group of some of the wealthiest and most powerful National Basketball Association team owners are forming a committee to investigate blockchain use cases for the NBA. 

Called the Blockchain Advisory Subcommittee, members include Mark Cuban, Joe Tsai, Ted Leonsis, Steve Pagliuca, Vivek Ranadive and Ryan Sweeney. According to Sportico, the goal of the subcommittee is to “explore ways to integrate blockchain across the league’s business.”

Two obvious possible use cases include ticketing and collectibles. Blockchain-based ticketing has made significant strides and now has an active userbase, and Mark cuban in particular has been vocal about his support for using blockchain to enable his team to reap profits from secondhand sales and scalping.

[woohorn 1131]

Saw a guy on tiktok claim that NFTs are just a way to launder crypto profits. Artist creates several and sells one for a high price and that sets the value for the others that are donated or generate a loss somehow.

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

I'm sticking with tulips

[Nice Guy Eddie 13519]

Long video interview with Cuban on crypto and NFTs.

The idea of never-ending royalties has to be of great interest to any type of creator: Artist, musicians or business owner.  NFTs create this. Event tickets is a great example of future NFTs, which would evolutionize secondary markets. In theory, the NBA could demand 50% or even 100% of the resale profit.  Or perhaps even prevent or hinder resales for certain situations. For digital collectibles, a resale in 50 years could still build NBA revenue. 

Cuban hits on the idea that the crypto/NFT world has to keep the process simple, at least  for the end user. Most end users do not want to get involved with coins, token or wallets. They don't care if something crazy is happening behind the scenes. Afterall, do any of us really  understand the complexities of VISA or MC transactions and reimbursements? We could care less. We want a quick card experience so we can move on. 

[henrygandorf 29194]

3 hours ago, woohorn said:

Saw a guy on tiktok claim that NFTs are just a way to launder crypto profits.

imagine trying to decipher this sentence just ~5 years ago.

[Wanker Bob 379]

This top shot thing is interesting and the question is does it take off in popularity while the market remains fairly low in serialized product? If that's the case I can see the value of some of these e-cards forming a bubble for a while. That drop a couple of weeks ago where anyone who wanted a pack got one makes me leery though that the NBA will flood the market and devalue the whole thing. 

I've bought a couple of packs and am looking to flip them asap to make a little money. Might keep one or two of the best moments just to see if it blows up or collapses. 

[Irieguy 1059]

Ok I’m freaking out. I got a low enough number to buy a rising stars pack for $199. Obviously I’m doing it but what do people think the value is? Is there a website to check estimated values? @ZB'Tejas Any help is greatly appreciated from anybody. 

[Irieguy 1059]

I don’t want to clog up the board but I opened my $199 Rising Stars pack and got an awesome pull LaMelo Ball #774 of 2021. I’m going to list it as soon as possible and am hoping for at least $8K. Should I post updates?

[Tailgate 3022]

2 minutes ago, Irieguy said:

I don’t want to clog up the board but I opened my $199 Rising Stars pack and got an awesome pull LaMelo Ball #774 of 2021. I’m going to list it as soon as possible and am hoping for at least $8K. Should I post updates?

Nice! And yes!

[DonkeyCigars 143]

Okay, so I wouldn't be on brand here if I didn't take a both sides approach here and try and be fair and balanced, because while I'm bullish here and I started the thread as a positive thing, there is obviously some unknown. To wit:

https://kotaku.com/blockchain-losers-are-spending-millions-on-what-are-bas-1846393529

 

Edited March 8, 2021 by DonkeyCigars

[Nice Guy Eddie 13519]

11 hours ago, Irieguy said:

I don’t want to clog up the board but I opened my $199 Rising Stars pack and got an awesome pull LaMelo Ball #774 of 2021. I’m going to list it as soon as possible and am hoping for at least $8K. Should I post updates?

Congrats. Top shot packs have turned into mini lotteries win lately.

the marketplace was barely open this weekend. I hope they are putting in fixes to prevent bots from taking over. Whether from analyzing every sale listing to placing sell listing hoping to manipulate a market. 

[Blotto 23564]

12 hours ago, Irieguy said:

I don’t want to clog up the board but I opened my $199 Rising Stars pack and got an awesome pull LaMelo Ball #774 of 2021. I’m going to list it as soon as possible and am hoping for at least $8K. Should I post updates?

1.) I hope you get $8k for your Lamelo Ball digital thingy. A 40x return overnight is hard to come by. 

2.) speculators paying $8k for those better find a new hobby. The idea that Lonzo Ball digital NFTs are suddenly worth $16 million in aggregate is humorous to me. 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13519]

13 hours ago, Irieguy said:

I don’t want to clog up the board but I opened my $199 Rising Stars pack and got an awesome pull LaMelo Ball #774 of 2021. I’m going to list it as soon as possible and am hoping for at least $8K. Should I post updates?

 

23 minutes ago, Blotto said:

1.) I hope you get $8k for your Lamelo Ball digital thingy. A 40x return overnight is hard to come by. 

2.) speculators paying $8k for those better find a new hobby. The idea that Lonzo Ball digital NFTs are suddenly worth $16 million in aggregate is humorous to me. 

@Irieguy When the marketplace opens up, I wouldn't recommend trying to wring out every last penny of profit on the Ball NFT. Whether you get 6, 7 or 8k, its all sweet profit. With the previous Stars pack drop, those moments sales prices dropped by up to 50% from the initial listings over the next couple of days. Of course, that situation was slightly different in that more moments were released over that time.

I would also recommend looking at the actual sales (bottom of the page) and not listings, for understanding of how best to get the NFT to move. Many of the listings are bs in terms that the seller is asking for 2-10x the market value.

[Irieguy 1059]

1 hour ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

 

@Irieguy When the marketplace opens up, I wouldn't recommend trying to wring out every last penny of profit on the Ball NFT. Whether you get 6, 7 or 8k, its all sweet profit. With the previous Stars pack drop, those moments sales prices dropped by up to 50% from the initial listings over the next couple of days. Of course, that situation was slightly different in that more moments were released over that time.

I would also recommend looking at the actual sales (bottom of the page) and not listings, for understanding of how best to get the NFT to move. Many of the listings are bs in terms that the seller is asking for 2-10x the market value.

Totally agree. And I’ve ebayed enough to know that listings don’t mean shit. It was always hilarious when people thought a VHS copy of Aladdin was worth $10,000 because some clickbait article used listings and not sales. 👍

[ZB'Tejas 593]

20 hours ago, Irieguy said:

Ok I’m freaking out. I got a low enough number to buy a rising stars pack for $199. Obviously I’m doing it but what do people think the value is? Is there a website to check estimated values? @ZB'Tejas Any help is greatly appreciated from anybody. 

Congrats on the LaMelo pull and just getting a pack yesterday (I was 159K in line). Rising Stars has a challenge and LeMelo will be the gate (similar to Luka on the CC) so I'm not sure I would be selling immediately. As soon as the market opens there will be a race to the bottom with flipper trying to sell. If you are first and just want to take profit then go ahead but I think the dip will be following by a gradual rise as they build toward the challenge pay off.

I'm sitting on several SS and will likely be buying those up to at least try for the LeBron challenge and potentially both. 

[ZB'Tejas 593]

18 hours ago, Irieguy said:

I don’t want to clog up the board but I opened my $199 Rising Stars pack and got an awesome pull LaMelo Ball #774 of 2021. I’m going to list it as soon as possible and am hoping for at least $8K. Should I post updates?

First listings might get in the 8-10K range as there will be a big surge right out of the gate. I'd guess LaMelo settles in around 5-6K afterwards.

 

What was your SS moment? Selling that too?

Edited March 8, 2021 by ZB'Tejas

[henrygandorf 29194]

15 hours ago, DonkeyCigars said:

Okay, so I wouldn't be on brand here if I didn't take a both sides approach here and try and be fair and balanced, because while I'm bullish here and I started the thread as a positive thing, there is obviously some unknown. To wit:

https://kotaku.com/blockchain-losers-are-spending-millions-on-what-are-bas-1846393529

 

that article seems a little reductive, at least in regards to top shot highlights.  it's like saying, "well, baseball cards aren't worth anything, because i could just as easily find a cool looking photo of mickey mantle and go to kinkos and print 1000 on high card stock and boom, i have the same thing."

if people are accepting the premise of the crypto-secured unique serial numbered commodities, then the system works.  you could argue that the individual cards won't hold value because of the way they're rolling them out, making too many, whatever your excuse is, but attacking the format or structure of them seems like a pre-concept argument, and that time has passed.

collectibles are worth what people will pay for them, sports or otherwise.  there used to be a problem with counterfeit cards and likely always will be with signature-based collectibles, but this ain't that.

we live in a world where people (lots of kids, but really all ages) are spending hundreds of millions on fortnite skins (something i will never fully understand).  this is something in a game that doesn't even make you better or make the game easier, but it's happening.  to think this cannot function in a similar way is silly.

[Irieguy 1059]

3 hours ago, ZB'Tejas said:

First listings might get in the 8-10K range as there will be a big surge right out of the gate. I'd guess LaMelo settles in around 5-6K afterwards.

 

What was your SS moment? Selling that too?

Thank you for the response. My SS moment was Zach Lavine high number but I didn’t really care after the LaMelo. Selling everything as quickly as possible(keeping one $9 moment in case it’s a requirement for pack purchases going forward). I’d rather get 80% of max profit than be exposed to future risk. 

[Irieguy 1059]

I sold the LaMelo Ball moment for $5,000. I could have maybe held out for more but am very happy with the amount. I’m not going to lie, the marketplace being down was exhausting. I know there are valid reasons because of volume, but still frustrating. And apparently I have to wait at least 30 days to cash out. Great product overwhelmed by demand now. 

[DonkeyCigars 143]

9 hours ago, Irieguy said:

I sold the LaMelo Ball moment for $5,000. I could have maybe held out for more but am very happy with the amount. I’m not going to lie, the marketplace being down was exhausting. I know there are valid reasons because of volume, but still frustrating. And apparently I have to wait at least 30 days to cash out. Great product overwhelmed by demand now. 

Wow. That's cool.

[StassneyHorn 6624]

So I should throw my stimulus money into this or RIOT?

[wild_turkey 3180]

From what I've read, it seems like NFTs will become a pretty big deal over the next few years. It's finally given digital artists a way to create value for their work.

With regards to NBA Top Shots, do you buy them directly with USD (credit card?) or do you need to purchase ETH first and then buy the Top Shots with ETH? I'm assuming the Dapper account acts as your ETH wallet and lets the process occur seamlessly? Just trying to figure out the mechanics.

[henrygandorf 29194]

2 hours ago, StassneyHorn said:

So I should throw my stimulus money into this or RIOT?

if you're talking about topshot, there really isn't "throwing your money into this" unless you're going to scour the marketplace for deals, and then either hold or flip i guess?  at last look, there were time restrictions concerning both purchasing and listing your moments.

personally i'm hoping to have my initial $14 last a really long time and still have fun with it, while my money rides riot to the fucking moon. 

[henrygandorf 29194]

2 minutes ago, wild_turkey said:

From what I've read, it seems like NFTs will become a pretty big deal over the next few years. It's finally given digital artists a way to create value for their work.

With regards to NBA Top Shots, do you buy them directly with USD (credit card?) or do you need to purchase ETH first and then buy the Top Shots with ETH? I'm assuming the Dapper account acts as your ETH wallet and lets the process occur seamlessly? Just trying to figure out the mechanics.

it was a seamless transaction with usd/cc just like you would on amazon or paypal or whatever you're used to.  for all the early kinks, buying a pack was very simple and straightforward. 

[Eastwood 4394]

I'm on the waitlist to get in to Top Shots.

The possibilities are endless on this. NFL, MLB, NHL, UFC, and WWE will quickly follow suit.

[Irieguy 1059]

22 hours ago, wild_turkey said:

From what I've read, it seems like NFTs will become a pretty big deal over the next few years. It's finally given digital artists a way to create value for their work.

With regards to NBA Top Shots, do you buy them directly with USD (credit card?) or do you need to purchase ETH first and then buy the Top Shots with ETH? I'm assuming the Dapper account acts as your ETH wallet and lets the process occur seamlessly? Just trying to figure out the mechanics.

I’m in the middle of the process. I’ve turned a $199 pack and a $14 pack in to a huge and very lucky score. I paid for the packs with credit card. And now I’m kind of stuck for awhile. I sent in my driver’s license photo for account verification but I have to wait 20 more days to submit any type of withdrawal. Once my account has been verified as not a bot I can withdraw directly to a back account or transfer using USD coin on Ethereum. But there is a 3k daily limit and $25 charge for each withdrawal to a bank account. So the fees can add up. 5% of the sale of the moment in the marketplace too. And like somebody else said, there is no easy way to buyin now. All of the packs are sold out so you can only buy moments in the marketplace and hope to sell them for a profit. But there are more “pros” in the marketplace every day. 
I also am setup to receive USD coin(Ethereum) in to my Coinbase account so that will be an option once I’m verified. 

[Irieguy 1059]

Long NBA topshot post below:

I’m no expert but if I was investing in topshot short term I would spend $10,000 and complete the Anthony Edwards Rising Stars Challenge. On March 29th if you have 9 specific Rising Stars moments in your account you get an Anthony Edwards moment for free. I estimate only 500 will complete the challenge and get the Edwards. After March 29th, no more of the Edwards card will be created. The Edwards should be worth at least $3,000 but if you hit the lottery and get a very low number it could be worth $30k minimum. The price of the 9 moments you bought will mostly likely drop March 30th but less than $3K total I think. Factor in the 5% marketplace fees and you should make a $2K profit at a minimum and have a change of winning huge if you get a single digit serial number. 
You can see that these challenges are a neat way of encouraging people to hold on to their moments. There are also people who buy moments in the marketplace and speculate they will be needed for future challenges. 

Edited March 13, 2021 by Irieguy

[Nice Guy Eddie 13519]

3 hours ago, Irieguy said:

Long NBA topshot post below:

I’m no expert but if I was investing in topshot short term I would spend $10,000 and complete the Anthony Edwards Rising Stars Challenge. On March 29th if you have 9 specific Rising Stars moments in your account you get an Anthony Edwards moment for free. I estimate only 500 will complete the challenge and get the Edwards. After March 29th, no more of the Edwards card will be created. The Edwards should be worth at least $3,000 but if you hit the lottery and get a very low number it could be worth $30k minimum. The price of the 9 moments you bought will mostly likely drop March 30th but less than $3K total I think. Factor in the 5% marketplace fees and you should make a $2K profit at a minimum and have a change of winning huge if you get a single digit serial number. 
You can see that these challenges are a neat way of encouraging people to hold on to their moments. There are also people who buy moments in the marketplace and speculate they will be needed for future challenges. 

Interesting strategy and probably one method on how you can really make real money on top shot, outside of incredible luck.  

[wild_turkey 3180]

Someone help me out a bit here. I realize that for many applications, NFTs depend on subjective value.

Why is an NBA Top Shot highlight clip worth money when someone can watch the same highlight on Youtube for free? It's the exact reason a Mickey Mantle baseball card (picture of Mickey Mantle printed on a small piece of cardstock with stats) is worth money when someone can look at the same picture on Google for free. There's perceived value in being the owner of something that is limited and that a large enough group of people has also determined holds value. If everyone suddenly lost interest (remember Pogs?) then the value would plummet. 

I'm struggling a little bit more with NFTs when it comes to digital art. A painting by Picasso is incredibly valuable even though a likeness of the same painting can be purchased from a website like art.com for a low price, then framed and hung on a wall in your house. However, there's a massive physical perceivable difference between the actual Picasso painting vs. a print of the same painting. The painting has brushstrokes, weight, imperfections. The print is a print. The owner of the Picasso painting physically possesses something that no one else in the world can possess, unless possibly you consider a very good forgery. There's a tangible difference.

When someone sells a digital piece of art as an NFT, that digital file could have countless replica files that are physically indistinguishable. I've heard talk of NFT picture frames that would allow someone to display their NFT artwork in their home. If someone else displayed a copy of the same digital artwork file, would they literally be displaying the exact same .jpg image with the only difference being that one person owns a "certificate of authenticity" and one person does not? Although there is more value for the true owner, it seems like the value differential is much lower compared to a physical piece of art.

Moreover, what stops someone like Beeple from later releasing a new NFT of the same piece of art? He just sold "The First 5000 Days" for $69MM. Since anyone can create a new NFT at any time, is there anything that stops Beeple from releasing a new NFT of the same file in a couple of years? Maybe as the buyer of a $69MM piece of digital art you are just taking it in good faith that he won't do that and devalue his entire art collection. However, the owner of "Le Reve" never has to worry about Pablo Picasso painting a second copy of "Le Reve". It's one of a kind and always will be.

Curious what other people think. I'm still trying to sort all of this out and maybe the world doesn't even know these answers yet. I definitely think NFTs have a place in this world, just trying to understand what that will be in the long run.

[DonkeyCigars 143]

1 hour ago, wild_turkey said:

Someone help me out a bit here. I realize that for many applications, NFTs depend on subjective value.

Why is an NBA Top Shot highlight clip worth money when someone can watch the same highlight on Youtube for free? It's the exact reason a Mickey Mantle baseball card (picture of Mickey Mantle printed on a small piece of cardstock with stats) is worth money when someone can look at the same picture on Google for free. There's perceived value in being the owner of something that is limited and that a large enough group of people has also determined holds value. If everyone suddenly lost interest (remember Pogs?) then the value would plummet. 

I'm struggling a little bit more with NFTs when it comes to digital art. A painting by Picasso is incredibly valuable even though a likeness of the same painting can be purchased from a website like art.com for a low price, then framed and hung on a wall in your house. However, there's a massive physical perceivable difference between the actual Picasso painting vs. a print of the same painting. The painting has brushstrokes, weight, imperfections. The print is a print. The owner of the Picasso painting physically possesses something that no one else in the world can possess, unless possibly you consider a very good forgery. There's a tangible difference.

When someone sells a digital piece of art as an NFT, that digital file could have countless replica files that are physically indistinguishable. I've heard talk of NFT picture frames that would allow someone to display their NFT artwork in their home. If someone else displayed a copy of the same digital artwork file, would they literally be displaying the exact same .jpg image with the only difference being that one person owns a "certificate of authenticity" and one person does not? Although there is more value for the true owner, it seems like the value differential is much lower compared to a physical piece of art.

Moreover, what stops someone like Beeple from later releasing a new NFT of the same piece of art? He just sold "The First 5000 Days" for $69MM. Since anyone can create a new NFT at any time, is there anything that stops Beeple from releasing a new NFT of the same file in a couple of years? Maybe as the buyer of a $69MM piece of digital art you are just taking it in good faith that he won't do that and devalue his entire art collection. However, the owner of "Le Reve" never has to worry about Pablo Picasso painting a second copy of "Le Reve". It's one of a kind and always will be.

Curious what other people think. I'm still trying to sort all of this out and maybe the world doesn't even know these answers yet. I definitely think NFTs have a place in this world, just trying to understand what that will be in the long run.

I'm not sure to your questions, but I had the idea that everyone should probably take a digital photo of themselves or something and make it an NFT #1, just in case they somehow become popular or famous. Can you imagine if Taylor Swift NFT when she was a nobody and someone owned that, or something similar, how many millions you can flip that now.

[Irieguy 1059]

22 minutes ago, DonkeyCigars said:

I'm not sure to your questions, but I had the idea that everyone should probably take a digital photo of themselves or something and make it an NFT #1, just in case they somehow become popular or famous. Can you imagine if Taylor Swift NFT when she was a nobody and someone owned that, or something similar, how many millions you can flip that now.

I agree with DonkeyCigars but will try to add on my perspective about TopShot. Once you get your Michael Jordan rookie and put in a PSA slab you are never touching it again. But I have seen a flood of collectors posting videos of their collection on YouTube or elsewhere. So TopShot let’s you show off your collection with no middle man. And it has value because it impresses other people. 🤷🏻‍♂️  I’m not fully onboard either but that’s how this old man is relating to it. 

[Izhmash 563]

New to the NFT talk. A fee questions that came up for me while reading this thread:

1. Where does the porn industry sit on NFTs?

2. Apparently unique art can be packaged as an NFT, but can the owner then license it broadly for viewing / use? (I am imagining a rolling art catalogue on my flat screen, which I pay subscriptions to view - in lieu of a large one time fee). Or, are they limited to a one time sale?  I would be much more interested in NFTs if I can extract long term value from them.

3. What resources are recommended to get an old guy up to speed on this shit?

Thx Surly.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13519]

Beeple could easily make another NFT based on the same art. Which could definitely hurt the value of the first one. This is probably a fear of buying art from any living artist. Say you buy a physical painting from a rising artist. You think it’s unique so you pay $25k. The next day the artist releases 100 similar paintings. It’s doubtful your painting is still worth 25k today. But you still own the first released painting which might mean something to another collector. Or perhaps your painting is now worth $100.

One aspect of beeple being dissuaded from creating duplicate work is that he may have future royalties on the art that just sold. NFTs can allow that but I also assume that could be negotiated.  A beeple art piece without royalties should be more valuable than one with 20%.

in theory, the nft purchase could include a provision that beeple can’t sell similar art without the transaction rolling back. Or it could be insured against duplication.

[Eastwood 4394]

2 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

One aspect of beeple being dissuaded from creating duplicate work is that he may have future royalties on the art that just sold. NFTs can allow that but I also assume that could be negotiated.  A beeple art piece without royalties should be more valuable than one with 20%.

in theory, the nft purchase could include a provision that beeple can’t sell similar art without the transaction rolling back. Or it could be insured against duplication.

Also, people would be less willing to buy his work for asking price if he has a reputation for turning around and selling another one.

I'm still not 100% sure, as pointed out above, just WHY the Top Shots are so valuable. I can google the clip that they are selling. Is it essentially an ownership of the copyright of that moment? For example, if they release a Legends Pack and I get the moment of Jordan shooting the game winning shot with Bird walking away with his hands on his hips in the background, do I own the right to broadcast that moment whenever I want? What are my rights with that moment? Or is this just another form of sports memorabilia that we can gamble with under the hopes that it sticks around like physical cards?

[Nice Guy Eddie 13519]

4 minutes ago, Eastwood said:

Also, people would be less willing to buy his work for asking price if he has a reputation for turning around and selling another one.

I'm still not 100% sure, as pointed out above, just WHY the Top Shots are so valuable. I can google the clip that they are selling. Is it essentially an ownership of the copyright of that moment? For example, if they release a Legends Pack and I get the moment of Jordan shooting the game winning shot with Bird walking away with his hands on his hips in the background, do I own the right to broadcast that moment whenever I want? What are my rights with that moment? Or is this just another form of sports memorabilia that we can gamble with under the hopes that it sticks around like physical cards?

I'm fairly certain the NBA is not selling the broadcast moments with Top Shot. This is memorabilia only. 

Why do people pay money for baseball cards? I'm 50 and I get the uncertainty of why pay for a digital version of a video clip that is free online. Top Shot is not about watching a video replay. Why does someone pay millions for a rookie Mickey Mantle card? The picture is free online. You can even print it out and get a replica made of the trading card. It's fair to say that someone is an idiot for buying a Mantle rookie baseball card. But if you can buy it for 500k and sell it next year for 1m, are you an idiot?

NFTs seems like are a version of the Greater Fool theory but so are all collectibles and art.

 

[MonkeyDoughnut 10346]

NFTs right now are just in let's figure it out mode. Thoughts of current NFTs outside a rare few retaining any kind of value seems low to me. NFT is more like a copyright which only has meaning if enforced. NFTs aren't tied to a specific blockchain so anyone can create another one. Don't want to pay royalties, fine just wrap the original in another blockchain. Etc

Where NFT use will become valuable (less speculative, more useful) is in real business.  Let's say Ticketmaster sells tickets using NFTs. Every time the ticket is resold, Ticketmaster could get paid directly.  Want to resell an ebook, publisher can get paid on your resale.

These are where the bigger value in NFTs lies.  I don't see the unique art/music being much long term.

 

 

 

[ztejas 43526]

2 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

I'm fairly certain the NBA is not selling the broadcast moments with Top Shot. This is memorabilia only. 

Why do people pay money for baseball cards? I'm 50 and I get the uncertainty of why pay for a digital version of a video clip that is free online. Top Shot is not about watching a video replay. Why does someone pay millions for a rookie Mickey Mantle card? The picture is free online. You can even print it out and get a replica made of the trading card. It's fair to say that someone is an idiot for buying a Mantle rookie baseball card. But if you can buy it for 500k and sell it next year for 1m, are you an idiot?

NFTs seems like are a version of the Greater Fool theory but so are all collectibles and art.

 

Shit... most of the value of gold operates along those lines. Why does this cost what it does? I don't know - it's shiny and other people like that it's shiny, too. It's worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it.

I have a buddy getting into TopShot. He said he bought a "pack" for ~$200 and one of the NFTs he got is worth a lot more than that. I'm sure there's some money to be made if you can get on the right side, especially in the early stages, but it seems extremely volatile and untested. 

[ztejas 43526]

11 hours ago, DonkeyCigars said:

I'm not sure to your questions, but I had the idea that everyone should probably take a digital photo of themselves or something and make it an NFT #1, just in case they somehow become popular or famous. Can you imagine if Taylor Swift NFT when she was a nobody and someone owned that, or something similar, how many millions you can flip that now.

Ugh. So many dick pics deleted over the years... 

[RDCanecutter 26462]

On 3/12/2021 at 11:14 PM, wild_turkey said:

Someone help me out a bit here. I realize that for many applications, NFTs depend on subjective value.

Why is an NBA Top Shot highlight clip worth money when someone can watch the same highlight on Youtube for free? It's the exact reason a Mickey Mantle baseball card (picture of Mickey Mantle printed on a small piece of cardstock with stats) is worth money when someone can look at the same picture on Google for free. There's perceived value in being the owner of something that is limited and that a large enough group of people has also determined holds value. If everyone suddenly lost interest (remember Pogs?) then the value would plummet. 

I'm struggling a little bit more with NFTs when it comes to digital art. A painting by Picasso is incredibly valuable even though a likeness of the same painting can be purchased from a website like art.com for a low price, then framed and hung on a wall in your house. However, there's a massive physical perceivable difference between the actual Picasso painting vs. a print of the same painting. The painting has brushstrokes, weight, imperfections. The print is a print. The owner of the Picasso painting physically possesses something that no one else in the world can possess, unless possibly you consider a very good forgery. There's a tangible difference.

When someone sells a digital piece of art as an NFT, that digital file could have countless replica files that are physically indistinguishable. I've heard talk of NFT picture frames that would allow someone to display their NFT artwork in their home. If someone else displayed a copy of the same digital artwork file, would they literally be displaying the exact same .jpg image with the only difference being that one person owns a "certificate of authenticity" and one person does not? Although there is more value for the true owner, it seems like the value differential is much lower compared to a physical piece of art.

Moreover, what stops someone like Beeple from later releasing a new NFT of the same piece of art? He just sold "The First 5000 Days" for $69MM. Since anyone can create a new NFT at any time, is there anything that stops Beeple from releasing a new NFT of the same file in a couple of years? Maybe as the buyer of a $69MM piece of digital art you are just taking it in good faith that he won't do that and devalue his entire art collection. However, the owner of "Le Reve" never has to worry about Pablo Picasso painting a second copy of "Le Reve". It's one of a kind and always will be.

Curious what other people think. I'm still trying to sort all of this out and maybe the world doesn't even know these answers yet. I definitely think NFTs have a place in this world, just trying to understand what that will be in the long run.

I have similar thoughts. Even if Beeple passes away, nothing to stop an heir from making new NFTs of his work.

Anyway, I am looking at this from an artist's standpoint. I sell original analog works and also offer them at print-on-demand shops in various formats that are "fire and forget" from my end. Maybe I'll make a few NFTs and see what happens. With NFTs I am picking up a gold rush mentality, and when there's a gold rush, the guy getting rich is usually the one selling shovels. I think I see who the shovel-sellers are in this deal.

So the steps I see for minting NFTs are these, correct me if I get something wrong:

1. Set up a wallet and fill it with about $250 USD of Ethereum for minting fees, "gas", and any other expenses

2. Using a jpeg scan of 10 MB or less (this is pretty small), mint some NFTs on a nice site (which may require invite) or shitty site (cheap, but it'll be surrounded by crap.)

3. Flog the bejeezus out of it on social media

 

Did I miss anything? Actually seems like just a more expensive version of setting it up to print to coffee cups and clothing, with the bonus of getting nickel and dimed dealing with Ethereum.

[Loch Ness Monster 3533]

Anyone expect TopShots to be worth more 10 years from now or is it just a quick cash/crypto grab before the bottom falls out at some point?

[Nice Guy Eddie 13519]

I don't fully agree with the opinion that an artist going to flood the market with thousands of NFTs. Sure minting an NFT isn't much of an hurdle but producing an oil painting isn't a hurdle for many artists either. The NFT value is mainly based on the scarcity of it. And the artist will continue to see royalties on their NFT resales so why kill the golden goose.

Someone is not buying any art (physical or digital) for $69m except for speculation or to brag they own it. Its not about the JPEG file and I think many people can't get past that. Hell, you an download a copy yourself if you want to. The winning bidder is the owner of Beeple's 5000 picture collage. Serial #1. No one else can own that. Now would someone else come along and pay more to him for that ownership right? Who knows. That's the nature of buying expensive art.  It might drop in value over night or double.

And as far as someone valuing  physical art over digital, who's to say who is right. 

Elon Musk tweeted about auctioning off this NFT "art" but I don't know if he's serious. But I guarantee it would sell for millions if he did. Why? Because you might own the only art ever produced by one of the richest men in the world. Pure speculative play to buy it.

 

 

 

 

 

[NoName 16369]

15 hours ago, Loch Ness Monster said:

Anyone expect TopShots to be worth more 10 years from now or is it just a quick cash/crypto grab before the bottom falls out at some point?

the people i know who are spending in it are not doing it for long term holds like they are with their BTC or ETH holdings

most are just playing around with it while it's hot and playing the lottery to see if they get a good card from a drop

[Hank Scorpio 17729]

 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13519]

On 3/12/2021 at 6:48 PM, Irieguy said:

Long NBA topshot post below:

I’m no expert but if I was investing in topshot short term I would spend $10,000 and complete the Anthony Edwards Rising Stars Challenge. On March 29th if you have 9 specific Rising Stars moments in your account you get an Anthony Edwards moment for free. I estimate only 500 will complete the challenge and get the Edwards. After March 29th, no more of the Edwards card will be created. The Edwards should be worth at least $3,000 but if you hit the lottery and get a very low number it could be worth $30k minimum. The price of the 9 moments you bought will mostly likely drop March 30th but less than $3K total I think. Factor in the 5% marketplace fees and you should make a $2K profit at a minimum and have a change of winning huge if you get a single digit serial number. 
You can see that these challenges are a neat way of encouraging people to hold on to their moments. There are also people who buy moments in the marketplace and speculate they will be needed for future challenges. 

Your post got me looking more into this line of thinking. What are the next challenges in which you can predict what you need to buy today? 

The one you mention above, is collecting 9 Rising Star moments to get the unminted Edwards. The other unminted Rising Star moment is Zion Williamson. Most likely next month there will be a Rising Star challenge where if you collect the other 9 Rising Stars, you get a free Zion Williamson. It's probably cheaper to buy those Rising Stars today before the challenge is formally announced.

The same with the All Star. Buy 12 All-Stars today, get a free unminted Kevin Durant.  The other missing All-Star? LeBron. LeBron will most likely be an April challenge as well.

[Irieguy 1059]

20 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Your post got me looking more into this line of thinking. What are the next challenges in which you can predict what you need to buy today? 

The one you mention above, is collecting 9 Rising Star moments to get the unminted Edwards. The other unminted Rising Star moment is Zion Williamson. Most likely next month there will be a Rising Star challenge where if you collect the other 9 Rising Stars, you get a free Zion Williamson. It's probably cheaper to buy those Rising Stars today before the challenge is formally announced.

The same with the All Star. Buy 12 All-Stars today, get a free unminted Kevin Durant.  The other missing All-Star? LeBron. LeBron will most likely be an April challenge as well.

I don’t think anybody knows. And the “experts” on YouTube will crack any code well before I do. Some people are speculating that Poetl, Dort, Boucher and a couple others might be part of it. I saw that on a YouTube video 10 days ago and made a quick $50. I bought the moments at $15 and sold for $30 the next day. But they have stabilized at $25. 
I’m honestly getting a little tired of TopShot. I know it’s a new site but it’s always down. My identity verification has still not been approved. I have no way of getting my money for at least 30 more days it appears. The market prices seem to be going down slightly across the board. I think in a month when tons of users can withdraw their money the market will crash even more. Right now I think it’s possible that people are buying moments when they have no option to withdraw. I will still enter every lottery for packs(nothing has been announced). But I’m not going to listen to monotone kids predict the next set composition or trends. 

[Blotto 23564]

The fleecing is getting good

https://robbreport.com/shelter/art-collectibles/worlds-first-nft-house-krista-kim-mars-house-1234601940/

Quote

If you’re looking to make a splash on the NFT market, Kim’s house has yet to sell. Bidding for the Mars House is currently up to 33 Ethereum coins, or the equivalent of $59,343 as of press time. That might seem like a lot for a house you’ll never be able to step foot in, but considering how much Beeple’s work is going for, it just might be a bargain.

 

[DonkeyCigars 143]

https://opensea.io/blog/guides/non-fungible-tokens/

[henrygandorf 29194]

what i like about top shot pack drops is not knowing at all when they are. they should do this with actual nba games.