#14 Texas vs. #17 Kansas - 8 PM, ESPN

[shadow_operative 15932]

 

 

[ztejas 43746]

12 minutes ago, Machinator said:

It matters from a sentimental and psychological perspective. They're a blue blood that has owned the league (and us) since its inception. Going 2-0 against them is a big deal, and we have people in this thread who are immediately glossing over it because we junked our way to a win (true). It's OK to enjoy the moment, sometimes, as flawed as we are.

It was a great win. 

I do think it will be funny if Shaka gets fired that he was the guy to beat Kansas twice. 

[chemHORN 1256]

Good win.  Id love to see the ball in Andrew Jones' or Ramey's hands from now on during FT time.  Don't want to see Coleman there with the game on the line.  

[shadow_operative 15932]

i can't enjoy the moment. it's impossible. the same warts and flaws that have been there from day one are still evident. there is zero reason to believe in a Shaka Smart coached team. if this was year three of this stupid asshole running our program then sure- enjoy the moment. it's not year three. it's year six, and we've had three top 6 recruiting classes, three first round draft picks (soon to be five), and zero tourney wins. we also finish in the bottom half of the conference more often than not. there is no "enjoying" a Shaka Smart win. in fact, every single win at this point is just disheartening. 

Edited February 24, 2021 by shadow_operative

[RockyMountainHighHorn 896]

Lucky good stupid outcoached nerve wracking underachieving....blah blah who cares. I did not think we would win this game based off the letdown against WVU. To get punched in the teeth early and come back and finish the sweep, I’ll take it. Dang right I’ll take it. Need to get back on that #3 line and this will help. 

[HookEm 2469]

Yes, Shaka’s on the court performance has lagged his recruited talent to a frustrating degree. But we did just sweep KU who recruits even better than us.

[Fletch 5802]

1 hour ago, ztejas said:

That asshole cost me some money missing that free throw.

But I can't be upset, at all, about Texas beating KU twice in basketball. 

Ha! Degenerate gambler 

[shadow_operative 15932]

13 minutes ago, HookEm said:

Yes, Shaka’s on the court performance has lagged his recruited talent to a frustrating degree. But we did just sweep KU who recruits even better than us.

at this point, this is like saying, "yeah, it's true- you have a terminal cancer that is going to kill you slowly and painfully. but you did just win $50 on a scratch off, and that doesn't happen often, so cheer up!" 

with all due respect, to anyone in here who is happy or celebratory about tonight's win- i do not understand you. at all. what is there to be happy about? what is there to celebrate? oh good, we swept KU! that totally erases the glaring, obvious disadvantage we have at HC and how miserable the last five years/foreseeable future has been/will be. no. just no. there is nothing to be happy about. there is no hope for the future, neither short term nor long term. fuck a win against the shittiest Kansas team in 20 years. the cancer is still running rampant through the program, and beating this once-in-two-decades shitty KU team does nothing to assuage that. 

[VolenteHawk 495]

1 hour ago, Machinator said:

It matters from a sentimental and psychological perspective. They're a blue blood that has owned the league (and us) since its inception. Going 2-0 against them is a big deal, and we have people in this thread who are immediately glossing over it because we junked our way to a win (true). It's OK to enjoy the moment, sometimes, as flawed as we are.

Beating a pretty good team, a “blue blood” even if it’s not their best version, when you don’t play anywhere near your best is a good win. It’s college basketball, winning ugly is part of it.

[realgreggym 837]

26 minutes ago, shadow_operative said:

at this point, this is like saying, "yeah, it's true- you have a terminal cancer that is going to kill you slowly and painfully. but you did just win $50 on a scratch off, and that doesn't happen often, so cheer up!" 

with all due respect, to anyone in here who is happy or celebratory about tonight's win- i do not understand you. at all. what is there to be happy about? what is there to celebrate? oh good, we swept KU! that totally erases the glaring, obvious disadvantage we have at HC and how miserable the last five years/foreseeable future has been/will be. no. just no. there is nothing to be happy about. there is no hope for the future, neither short term nor long term. fuck a win against the shittiest Kansas team in 20 years. the cancer is still running rampant through the program, and beating this once-in-two-decades shitty KU team does nothing to assuage that. 

Of course you don't understand. You have no real clue about game from a physical, mental or emotional viewpoint On one hand, you think Coach Smart is a bad coach. On the other hand, Bilas, Fran and others think he is a good coach. I am conflicted. Who should I believe? The guys with D1 playing and coaching experience or the guy who probably finished last in the highly regarded Backyard Basketball Warrior League. Gosh, this is a tough one. Only an idiot like you would find something to bitch about. Your schtick is worthless and I seriously doubt anyone here actually cares what you think.

Great comeback guys. Keep it going.  

[goatsaag 279]

33 minutes ago, shadow_operative said:

with all due respect, to anyone in here who is happy or celebratory about tonight's win- i do not understand you.

Texas wins basketball game. Texas basketball fans happy.

[Victor Lazlo 1788]

For fuck’s sake, Derka, can you for once not shit all over a decent Texas win?

We beat them twice In the same year. Never done it before.

But you are going to pick nits and tell us that since we didn’t beat them by 25 that the win isn’t worthy?
Get the fuck out of here. 

[shadow_operative 15932]

10 minutes ago, goatsaag said:

Texas wins basketball game. Texas basketball fans happy.

this isn't a zero sum game. ignoring any and all nuance and specifics helps no one. we did not play a great game and kick the shit out of kansas, we played our usual brand of sloppy, lazy, undisciplined basketball which has led us to a sub-.500 conference record and 0 tourney wins under Shaka. had we played some complete game from top to bottom and looked like a competent, competitive team, then sure- celebrate the win. but that didn't happen. our guys sucked slightly less than their guys did, and we showed zero progress from our six week run of shitty play (smack dab in the middle of our fifth consecutive disappointing season). so like i said, if that makes you happy, then i do not understand you. 

Edited February 24, 2021 by shadow_operative

[shadow_operative 15932]

24 minutes ago, Victor Lazlo said:

For fuck’s sake, Derka, can you for once not shit all over a decent Texas win?

We beat them twice In the same year. Never done it before.

But you are going to pick nits and tell us that since we didn’t beat them by 25 that the win isn’t worthy?
Get the fuck out of here. 

see my previous post. demanding that i be thrilled that we sucked slightly less than KU tonight, amid our never ending Shaka saga of suck, is something that, again, does not compute for me.

y'all are literally basing your happiness on nothing other than the name on the front of the jerseys of the team we played against  tonight. like it's okay that we looked like ass and have failed to correct any of the issues that have plagued us for years, issues which will surely lead to an early tourney exit once again, because the team we beat tonight plays at a school that fielded a bunch of great teams in the past. yippie fucking ki yay. when is the parade? when do we get our rings?

what part of "our team is still plagued by all of the same issues as every other Shaka team and is still consistently punching below its weight and that upsets me" is hard to understand? if the team played well i'd be happy. we didn't, so i'm not. what's not to understand?

Edited February 24, 2021 by shadow_operative

[shadow_operative 15932]

...

Edited February 24, 2021 by shadow_operative

[Victor Lazlo 1788]

Well, I can be happy with a season sweep of Kansas, no matter what year it is.

Perfection is hard to achieve.

[immamac 43570]

Derka takes basketball as serious as football. Remember how hard it was to enjoy a Tom Herman win towards the end? That's how derka feels. 

[Dbeasy 15235]

5 hours ago, realgreggym said:

Of course you don't understand. You have no real clue about game from a physical, mental or emotional viewpoint On one hand, you think Coach Smart is a bad coach. On the other hand, Bilas, Fran and others think he is a good coach. I am conflicted. Who should I believe? The guys with D1 playing and coaching experience or the guy who probably finished last in the highly regarded Backyard Basketball Warrior League. Gosh, this is a tough one. Only an idiot like you would find something to bitch about. Your schtick is worthless and I seriously doubt anyone here actually cares what you think.

Great comeback guys. Keep it going.  

This coach has not shown in any way whatsoever that he’s a good coach in six years. You have no idea what Fran and Bilas actually think about his coaching because they aren’t going to ever call a coach a bad coach on a tv broadcast. This is a terrible take. 

[Guest]

In 2011 Tommy Tuberville took down #3 Oklahoma in Norman, 41-38 when virtually nobody was winning at OU.

It should have felt great, but it was mostly just a surprise from a coach I despised.  His time at Tech was pure shit.  The big upset( not calling this UT win an upset) was hugely unsatisfying.

I would say STFU and enjoy the wins, but I get the other sentiment, for sure.

Edited February 24, 2021 by slorch

[Gut Wagon 8118]

Really glad to get that win. Any win is big at the moment, and beating any Kansas team twice feels great.

I always figured it would take a season with several veteran guards Shaka had recruited and developed for us to see what kind of coach he really is. There have been some encouraging signs on that front, but for me the jury remains out. Maybe it always will be. 

[Pam Cummings 9700]

7 hours ago, shadow_operative said:

 

 

He does it so much. You know its coming every time. Dribble right, gets cut off, picks up dribble in awkward spot, has to make weird/tough pass. 

[Pam Cummings 9700]

6 hours ago, realgreggym said:

Of course you don't understand. You have no real clue about game from a physical, mental or emotional viewpoint On one hand, you think Coach Smart is a bad coach. On the other hand, Bilas, Fran and others think he is a good coach. I am conflicted. Who should I believe? The guys with D1 playing and coaching experience or the guy who probably finished last in the highly regarded Backyard Basketball Warrior League. Gosh, this is a tough one. Only an idiot like you would find something to bitch about. Your schtick is worthless and I seriously doubt anyone here actually cares what you think.

Great comeback guys. Keep it going.  

At least Derka stays consistent and doesn't disappear for all the losses then show up beating his chest like a moron for the wins.

[HookEm 2469]

So Derka, just for clarity, would you have been happier if we had lost?

[Js1 85764]

15 minutes ago, Pam Cummings said:

At least Derka stays consistent and doesn't disappear for all the losses then show up beating his chest like a moron for the wins.

We have a few people here who do the opposite. 

[Pam Cummings 9700]

Just now, Js1 said:

We have a few people here who do the opposite. 

It's like imma said. We've seen enough here. The body of evidence is enough that any one game shouldn't sway you one way or another. Only thing that will change the mind of a non believer is a deep tournament run.

[Js1 85764]

6 hours ago, VolenteHawk said:

Beating a pretty good team, a “blue blood” even if it’s not their best version, when you don’t play anywhere near your best is a good win. It’s college basketball, winning ugly is part of it.

You gotta win ugly in the NCAA tournament. A lot of those games after the first round are gonna be knock out, drag down brawls unless you are Gonzaga/Baylor/Michigan. We’ve had some good experience this year, both winning and losing, those kind of games.  

[NorthLoop 14303]

Someone get Derka a tripod for his phone

[Js1 85764]

3 hours ago, immamac said:

Derka takes basketball as serious as football. Remember how hard it was to enjoy a Tom Herman win towards the end? That's how derka feels. 

Yes I get that. Derka can feel how he feels. It’s basically the basketball version of beating OU twice in one season (if game 2 wasn’t a champ game). KU has had our number for years. Felt nice to sweep them. 

[NorthLoop 14303]

When we were up by 2 with 20 seconds left of whatever and had the ball I kept saying "just don't shoot a 3, just don't shoot a 3" .. and we shot a 3 and bricked it. And then they tied it up. 

[immamac 43570]

50 minutes ago, HookEm said:

So Derka, just for clarity, would you have been happier if we had lost?

It's like watching a car wreck where your whole family dies. You watch hoping it doesn't happen the one time and then you feel better. Unfortunately he's in a doom loop and the only thing to fix it is an elite 8 or final 4 appearance or shaka getting fired. 

Much like only a playoff win or a big xii championship would have been the only thing good enough for Herman. We all known what we are watching, we all know shaka can't do that. We all know Texas basketball is no longer fun to watch. 

Let's put it this way. The horns just swept the jayhawks for the first time in idk if it's actually happened and this thread is less than 10 pages and less than 3k views. 

Remember game threads in football? Less than 30 pages and 50k views. 

Game threads on shaggy for both sports when the team was actually good were at least triple that. It's not because the site is less popular, it's actually more popular than ever. It's because the product is trash and people are actively avoiding it instead of watching. 

[Burt Macklin 19099]

7 hours ago, realgreggym said:

Of course you don't understand. You have no real clue about game from a physical, mental or emotional viewpoint On one hand, you think Coach Smart is a bad coach. On the other hand, Bilas, Fran and others think he is a good coach. I am conflicted. Who should I believe? The guys with D1 playing and coaching experience or the guy who probably finished last in the highly regarded Backyard Basketball Warrior League. Gosh, this is a tough one. Only an idiot like you would find something to bitch about. Your schtick is worthless and I seriously doubt anyone here actually cares what you think.

Great comeback guys. Keep it going.  

Maybe the guy who’s watched Shaka coach for six years and still thinks he’s a good coach shouldn’t be so quick to go around calling other people idiots. 

[VirginiaLonghorn 4808]

12 minutes ago, NorthLoop said:

When we were up by 2 with 20 seconds left of whatever and had the ball I kept saying "just don't shoot a 3, just don't shoot a 3" .. and we shot a 3 and bricked it. And then they tied it up. 

Yep.  That’s the best Shaka could come up with to put the game out of reach ... following a timeout.  Nothing.

[Ghost of Shag 2653]

It’s not that Derka isn’t right; he is right. Anyone who knows basketball knows Shaka is outmatched. No player discipline. No offensive set.  

It’s how Derka beats that dead horse that earns him the abuse and scorn. When you’re posting three or four times in a row to expound upon the same shit you expounded on last game, you’re going to be viewed as nuts.

If anyone thinks a regular season game is going to determine whether Shaka returns or not, you’re crazy.

As far as I see it, the only possible way shocker gets fired after this year is by losing in the first round of the NCAA tournament.

And even if he loses that game, I still think there’s a 75% chance he returns.

Edited February 24, 2021 by Ghost of Shag

[Js1 85764]

8 minutes ago, VirginiaLonghorn said:

Yep.  That’s the best Shaka could come up with to put the game out of reach ... following a timeout.  Nothing.

Hero ball. Coleman wanted that senior night headline 

[HookEm 2469]

I like the “Doom loop” description and can relate. I try hard to keep some optimism and separate how I feel about the coach (and sometimes the individual players) from preventing my enjoyment of wins. It is hard though when the same patterns happen continually.

I was starting to feel that way with Mack Brown around 2003. We were good but OU had our number and we would step on our dick at the worst times. Then VY happened and all those times are long forgotten.

A Final Four would do that for Shaka imo. And this team has the potential to get there honestly. 5 of our 6 losses are by a combined 10 points. With great luck we could be 19-1 right now. Of course 6 of our wins are by a combined 15 points. With some terrible luck we could be 8-12. That tells me that the entire spectrum of outcomes is still in play for this team. We could lose out, squeak into the play in and lose there. We could also win out, lose the Big12 Title game to Baylor, get a 2 seed and make it to the Final Four.

Again for clarity, I would like to upgrade from Shaka, but I’m still capable of changing my mind

[NorthLoop 14303]

10 minutes ago, Ghost of Shag said:

 

And even if he loses that game, I still think there’s a 75% chance he returns.

I'd take that bet. However I think if he wins that first game then it's like 95%. 

[VirginiaLonghorn 4808]

16 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Hero ball. Coleman wanted that senior night headline 

So, you’ve never seen that “play” before Senior Night?

Dribble around and jack is play #1 and 1A in Shaka’s offense.

[Bitterwhiteguy 153]

2 hours ago, Dbeasy said:

This coach has not shown in any way whatsoever that he’s a good coach in six years. You have no idea what Fran and Bilas actually think about his coaching because they aren’t going to ever call a coach a bad coach on a tv broadcast. This is a terrible take. 

For whatever it's worth - probably a grain of salt at best - I've talked to Bilas in person and he thinks very highly of Shaka. It's been a couple of years so he might have changed his mind in the interim, but in my limited experience talking with Bilas he says what he thinks and doesn't really sugarcoat things for the sake of broadcast. 

[Js1 85764]

2 minutes ago, VirginiaLonghorn said:

So, you’ve never seen that “play” before Senior Night?

Dribble around and jack is play #1 and 1A in Shaka’s offense.

No of course we have. Don’t be obtuse. Hero Ball is a core part of his offense. 

Edited February 24, 2021 by Js1

[Zeus 6478]

9 hours ago, shadow_operative said:

 

 

Tipifies and exemplifies huh

[VirginiaLonghorn 4808]

4 minutes ago, Js1 said:

No of course we have. Don’t be obtuse. Hero Ball is a core part of his offense. 

Blaming Coleman is obtuse.

[Js1 85764]

Just now, VirginiaLonghorn said:

Blaming Coleman is obtuse.

Why are you angry about it? Shaka coaches hero ball offense, Coleman made a hero ball play.  You seem very shocked by that. 

Im not blaming Coleman. He’s running the offense Shaka coaches. If not him, it would have been Ramey or Jones taking that 3. Someone was going to. 

[Zeus 6478]

Yeah it was pretty frustrating watching that offense last night. I ignore CBB for the most part but peep in on a few Texas games every year prior to the tournament. Man Kansas had a plan on defense with that zone and their offense looked good too. Glad their big man fouled out or we would've lost.

But Texas should of closed it out in regulation, holy fuck those were some awful decisions. The men are extremely talented and quick, but the offense plays with such a crazy hectic pace you can just feel the TO or brick coming. I don't know if that means slow it down or just more flow - ball movement and movement without the ball, but damn the offense looked fucking worse than the pick-up ball offense Rick Barnes used to run. 

They aren't going to fire Shaka though, the media loves him too much, they couldn't stop talking about him and his hair and blah blah. These are the first few articles that come up when you just type in Shaka Smart

https://sports.yahoo.com/shaka-smart-hair-texas-basketball-coronavirus-hiatus-014747964.html

https://longhornswire.usatoday.com/2020/11/30/texas-longhorns-basketball-shaka-smart-hair-head-coach-social-media-big-12/

 

[Dbeasy 15235]

21 minutes ago, Bitterwhiteguy said:

For whatever it's worth - probably a grain of salt at best - I've talked to Bilas in person and he thinks very highly of Shaka. It's been a couple of years so he might have changed his mind in the interim, but in my limited experience talking with Bilas he says what he thinks and doesn't really sugarcoat things for the sake of broadcast. 

A couple of comments here.  First, there is a massive difference between a few years ago and now. Most thought he was a good coach a few years ago because of his recruiting and what he'd done at VCU. It's only now people are realizing he's not good. 

Second, if you are a personal friend with Bilas, then his comments would hold value. But if you aren't, then you have a very naive view of how public figures decide what to say in public, in person or on broadcast.  And even if he is someone who doesn't sugarcoat things, which I agree he doesn't, he still has to be extremely careful about ripping coaches.  There is a whole process these public figures go through in deciding whether to publically share a controversial opinion, unless you are a knuckehead like Skip Bayless or Steven Smith. Those idiots make a living off shock value.

[Machinator 32099]

Unsurprisingly, Vegas was spot-on with the line-setting.

[Js1 85764]

20 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

A couple of comments here.  First, there is a massive difference between a few years ago and now. Most thought he was a good coach a few years ago because of his recruiting and what he'd done at VCU. It's only now people are realizing he's not good. 

Second, if you are a personal friend with Bilas, then his comments would hold value. But if you aren't, then you have a very naive view of how public figures decide what to say in public, in person or on broadcast.  And even if he is someone who doesn't sugarcoat things, which I agree he doesn't, he still has to be extremely careful about ripping coaches.  There is a whole process these public figures go through in deciding whether to publically share a controversial opinion, unless you are a knuckehead like Skip Bayless or Steven Smith. Those idiots make a living off shock value.

I like Bilas when he is honest and calls out officials for bad calls.  But he is a big deferential to coaches generally, but he's not against criticizing in-game decisions or bad offensive sets.  He did really rip Jim Boheim recently for the Duke player comments. 

Edited February 24, 2021 by Js1

[Richard Kimball 1504]

4 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

A couple of comments here.  First, there is a massive difference between a few years ago and now. Most thought he was a good coach a few years ago because of his recruiting and what he'd done at VCU. It's only now people are realizing he's not good. 

Second, if you are a personal friend with Bilas, then his comments would hold value. But if you aren't, then you have a very naïve view of how public figures decide what to say in public, in person or on broadcast.  And even if he is someone who doesn't sugarcoat things, which I agree he doesn't, he still has to be extremely careful about ripping coaches.  There is a whole process these public figures go through in deciding whether to publicly share a controversial opinion, unless you are a knuckehead like Skip Bayless or Steven Smith. Those idiots make a living off shock value.

You make good points. Shaka is a great recruiter, and at VCU he was able to recruit guys, and they could out talent most of the teams they played. Look at the VCU schedule this year. How many losses would Texas have with that schedule? West Virginia is the only possible one I see, and UT split with them this year. Thing is, though, you're not going win against Kansas, Baylor, Oklahoma, Texas Tech and West Virginia with talent alone. That's where the game planning comes in. Top to bottom, the Big 12 is a terrific basketball conference. Probably 2/3rds of the schools are recruiting at a very high level, and when you have similar talent, it comes down to game planning and setting up mismatches with the other team. 

Your point on Bilas, also, is important. Smart commentators know they have a megaphone and that off the cuff comments can blow up. I've never gotten this impression about Smart, but I've known some coaches that will carry a grudge for years over a relatively off hand comment. 

 

[Bottlecap 1523]

the only way we won't have shaka back next year is if a more glamorous bball school comes calling. Here's our number Georgetown. Call us maybe?

Edited February 24, 2021 by Bottlecap

[shadow_operative 15932]

3 hours ago, HookEm said:

So Derka, just for clarity, would you have been happier if we had lost?

like i said- if we had played well then i would have enjoyed the game and been happy afterward. but that didn't happen. the game started with Greg Brown shooting (see: bricking) a step back three after a between-the-legs dribble, and ended with Matt Coleman bricking a three while Texas had a two point lead with time running down, on a possession where never won much as looked at a better shot. and in both cases, that's how Shaka likes it. he's fine with those shots, even though we finished 5-26 from deep, something we do regularly as we continue to lose (or in this case win) by one possession. we outscored KU in the end, but that's beyond secondary for me when compared to how we got there.

 

[shadow_operative 15932]

i've got it. here is the most succinct way i can describe why i'm not happy after last night's win:

you know how Courtney Ramey will chunk up a bunch of terrible shots on his way to a 2-11 (1-6 3PA) line from the field with three minutes to go and Texas losing by 5? Ramey will then take another terrible pull up three from 23 feet out before making a single pass, only this time the shot goes in to make it a two point game. it's still a terrible shot, and it's still the type of shot that got us into a hole in the first place, only this one went in. sorry, can't get excited about that. the fact that the shot went in this time doesn't make anything better- it only reinforces all of those other terrible shots from before.