#14 Texas vs. #17 Kansas - 8 PM, ESPN

[Catdaddyhorn 3,444]

9 hours ago, 83Horn said:

I understand that we should be striving for championships and all, but historically speaking, that just doesn't happen with Texas Men's Basketball.  In the last 50 years, we have been to 1 Final Four, 3 Elite Eights, and 8 Sweet Sixteens.  Tom Penders and Rick Barnes, the most successful coaches in school history, combined for a grand total of 5 Conference Championships in 27 years.  The norm for Texas basketball is a regular season win total in the mid-20s, a second or third place finish in conference and a first or second round exit from the NCAA tournament.  Based on our history, I just don't think that expecting Shaka to be fired if he doesn't win conference championships and go three or four games deep into the NCAA tournament on a regular basis is realistic. There just isn't that kind of tradition here for basketball.  Perhaps it's a function of my age, but I just have more tempered expectations for the basketball team than I do for the other sports.

Because of the changes made with Texas high school basketball over the course of the last 25 to 30 years, half of that 50 year history is inconsequential to me as it relates to today. The overall improvement among the state's college bball hoops squads is no accident. Just this year we had 4 or 5 Texas schools in the top 10 for a good part of the season. The stranglehold that high school football coaches had over UIL practices were finally relaxed and the resulting establishment of AAU programs and infrastructure led to much improved quality for the state's overall basketball talent base. So much so that at this point it's actually shocking that we aren't more of what you described above. One could argue that when it comes to the elite level Texas high school basketball is actually more talented than Texas high school football talent. The only mitigating factor being that high school basketball players are much more likely to leave their home state for college than their football peers.

While my default posture is to be about as hopeful and optimistic as poster could possibly be on this board, Shaka (and really Barnes) is playing with a different set of tools than previous Texas basketball regimes. And there's no denying that he's performed woefully with them. At this point the only hope I have for him is that maybe he's some version of Scott Drew, a coach who got the job before he was truly worthy of it, but later improved to improved to meet a higher standard. 

Edited February 25, 2021 by Catdaddyhorn

[Js1 85,056]

2 hours ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

 One could argue that when it comes to the elite level Texas high school basketball is actually more talented than Texas high school football talent. The only mitigating factor being that high school basketball players are much more likely to leave their home state for college than their football peers.

We used to lose the top recruits in the state to Duke and Kentucky.  Now it feels like we lose them to Tech and Baylor, with the occasional one going out of state (or pro) or occasionally coming to Texas (Greg Brown).

[ztejas 43,244]

2 hours ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

One could argue that when it comes to the elite level Texas high school basketball is actually more talented than Texas high school football talent.

You could argue that but you'd be wrong. Still, Texas does produce a lot of basketball talent. I was going through the 247 2022 list and 9 of the top ~60 guys are from Texas. 

[shadow_operative 15,931]

37 minutes ago, ztejas said:

You could argue that but you'd be wrong. Still, Texas does produce a lot of basketball talent. I was going through the 247 2022 list and 9 of the top ~60 guys are from Texas. 

the thing about this is that Texas HS football is so advanced and ahead of everyone else when it comes to training, facilities, financial support, elite coaching, etc. that many Texas HS football studs are finished products as 18/19 year old seniors. the prevailing wisdom among many college coaches now is that recruiting Florida, Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, etc can be/is better than recruiting Texas kids because those states have amazing athletes who are just scratching the surface, guys with a ton of room to grow. all of this is to say that Texas HS football recruits aren't as highly regarded across the board as they used to be.

meanwhile, greater Houston and the DFW have become giant hubs of basketball talent. when you combine those two areas with the rest that the state has to offer, Texas as a whole dwarfs most other HS basketball talent hubs such as Chicago, NYC, St.Louis, the Bay Area, LA, etc. the elite level hoops talent in this state, player for player, is immense.

[ztejas 43,244]

6 minutes ago, shadow_operative said:

the thing about this is that Texas HS football is so advanced and ahead of everyone else when it comes to training, facilities, financial support, elite coaching, etc. that many Texas HS football studs are finished products as 18/19 year old seniors. the prevailing wisdom among many college coaches now is that recruiting Florida, Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, etc can be/is better than recruiting Texas kids because those states have amazing athletes who are just scratching the surface, guys with a ton of room to grow. all of this is to say that Texas HS football recruits aren't as highly regarded across the board as they used to be.

Right.

[shadow_operative 15,931]

2 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Right.

this doesn't address anything i said, but thanks for the substantive response. 👌🏼 

[shadow_operative 15,931]

lol, in fact you just unwittingly supported my argument. look at all of the draft picks coming from Florida, Georgia, Louisiana, and Alabama. now compare the state population of Texas to those states. great post bro. 

Edited February 25, 2021 by shadow_operative

[ztejas 43,244]

9 minutes ago, shadow_operative said:

lol, in fact you just unwittingly supported my argument. look at all of the draft picks coming from Florida, Georgia, Louisiana, and Alabama. now compare the state population of Texas to those states. great post bro. 

You can think whatever you want. I'm not really interested in engaging in such a plainly one-sided argument. Especially on an unrelated board.

[shadow_operative 15,931]

Just now, ztejas said:

You can think whatever you want. I'm not really interested in engaging in such a plainly one-sided argument. Especially on an unrelated board.

oh it's pretty clear that you no have interest in having an adult conversation here. you don't need to explain that any further. 

[ztejas 43,244]

25 minutes ago, shadow_operative said:

oh it's pretty clear that you no have interest in having an adult conversation here. you don't need to explain that any further. 

You could start by finding one metric supporting your assertion. Might take you awhile. 

Or - better yet - go tell the recruiting board about how Texas is a basketball state and see what the reception is, instead of posting here where you know no one is going to check you.

Edited February 25, 2021 by ztejas

[Catdaddyhorn 3,444]

1 hour ago, ztejas said:

You could start by finding one metric supporting your assertion. Might take you awhile. 

Or - better yet - go tell the recruiting board about how Texas is a basketball state and see what the reception is, instead of posting here where you know no one is going to check you.

First of all, I qualified my claim with elite talent for a reason. 2nd, comparing the number of draft picks between 2 sports where one has about 60 players total drafted a year and the other has 255 doesn't really tell us anything. 

Edited February 25, 2021 by Catdaddyhorn

[Catdaddyhorn 3,444]

5 minutes ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

First of all, I qualified my claim with elite talent for a reason. 2nd, comparing the number draft picks between 2 sports where one has about 60 players total drafted a year and the other has 255 doesn't really tell us anything. 

There are about 2 or 3 Texas high school basketball players drafted each year. And that's without the benefit of getting 3 years of college to incubate and improve to 1st round status.

[ztejas 43,244]

4 minutes ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

First of all, I qualified my claim with elite talent for a reason.

Elite talent meaning what? Pick any cutoff you want and football wins. Best players in the NFL vs. NBA from Texas? # of players in each from Texas? Players at P5 programs in each? Players at the D1 level in each? It's a silly debate any way you slice it. That's not to say Texas doesn't produce some serious basketball talent - it does - but comparing it to the football talent from Texas takes away from your point. It is probably more comparable than many people might think and that's about as far as I'd go.

[Catdaddyhorn 3,444]

Just now, ztejas said:

Elite talent meaning what? Pick any cutoff you want and football wins. Best players in the NFL vs. NBA from Texas? # of players in each from Texas? Players at P5 programs in each? Players at the D1 level in each? It's a silly debate any way you slice it. That's not to say Texas doesn't produce some serious basketball talent - it does - but comparing it to the football talent from Texas takes away from your point. It is probably more comparable than many people might think and that's about as far as I'd go.

1st round picks. 

[ztejas 43,244]

25 minutes ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

1st round picks. 

I guess we can start with 2020. 6 Texans went in the first round of the NFL draft. 2 Texans went in the first round of the NBA draft. 

What are we doing here? Making me flesh out a non-debate that I said was a non-debate?

[Nolacycling 893]

TATES WITH MOST NFL PLAYERS PER CAPITA

State	Population *	NFL Players		NFL Players Per Capita
District of Columbia	601,723	11
Louisiana	4,533,372	59
Alabama	4,779,736	62
Georgia	9,687,653	120
Florida	18,801,310	212
South Carolina	4,625,364	52
Mississippi	2,967,297	24
Hawaii	1,360,301	11
Texas	25,145,561	179
Ohio	11,536,504	82
United States	308,745,538	1,673

[shadow_operative 15,931]

24 minutes ago, ztejas said:

I guess we can start with 2020. 6 Texans went in the first round of the NFL draft. 2 Texans went in the first round of the NBA draft. 

What are we doing here? Making me flesh out a non-debate that I said was a non-debate?

no, we're putting up with your petulance despite the fact that you clearly don't know what you're talking about. you've convinced yourself that what you're saying is infallible and that what catdaddy and i have said is horseshit, but you're wrong. i know you'll never see it, but you just don't know what you're talking about here.

if you actually address the specifics of what catdaddy and i have said, then maybe we could have some substantive back and forth. but you won't, so we can't. 🤷🏼‍♂️ 

 

 

edit: look at nola's post. Hawaii has more NFL players per capita than Texas does. you'll also notice that the four specific states which i names are all also ahead of Texas. meanwhile there is zero debating that Texas is and has been a HS hoops hotbed for talent for years now. it's not a debate, it's simple fact. 

Edited February 25, 2021 by shadow_operative

[shadow_operative 15,931]

also, off the top of my head-

LaMarcus Aldridge 

Jimmy Butler

Julius Randle

Jarett Allen

Pascal Siakam

DeAaron Fox

DeAndre Jordan

Marcus Smart

also, talking about which states produce pro players was never what the discussion was about. the discussion was about recruiting HS players, not which states churn out pros. although, again, even that point hasn't gone in your favor.

[HookEm 2,441]

Texas KU game thread seem an odd place for this debate.

[realgreggym 832]

10 hours ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

Because of the changes made with Texas high school basketball over the course of the last 25 to 30 years, half of that 50 year history is inconsequential to me as it relates to today. The overall improvement among the state's college bball hoops squads is no accident. Just this year we had 4 or 5 Texas schools in the top 10 for a good part of the season. The stranglehold that high school football coaches had over UIL practices were finally relaxed and the resulting establishment of AAU programs and infrastructure led to much improved quality for the state's overall basketball talent base. So much so that at this point it's actually shocking that we aren't more of what you described above. One could argue that when it comes to the elite level Texas high school basketball is actually more talented than Texas high school football talent. The only mitigating factor being that high school basketball players are much more likely to leave their home state for college than their football peers.

While my default posture is to be about as hopeful and optimistic as poster could possibly be on this board, Shaka (and really Barnes) is playing with a different set of tools than previous Texas basketball regimes. And there's no denying that he's performed woefully with them. At this point the only hope I have for him is that maybe he's some version of Scott Drew, a coach who got the job before he was truly worthy of it, but later improved to improved to meet a higher standard. 

caddy, good points but even worse. The Athletic Dept treated hoops as a non entity. And if someone wanted to go to a summer camp, the UIL would suspend them for the entire year if they went. Talk about the Dark Ages. 

[Catdaddyhorn 3,444]

4 minutes ago, realgreggym said:

caddy, good points but even worse. The Athletic Dept treated hoops as a non entity. And if someone wanted to go to a summer camp, the UIL would suspend them for the entire year if they went. Talk about the Dark Ages. 

As a young kid during the 80s who loved basketball (especially college ball) I always wondered why there were barely any NBA players from Texas. And I didn't discover local AAU options until halfway through my high school career in the mid 90s. 

[realgreggym 832]

The old SWC looked at hoops as the time between football season and spring practice. 

 

[ChickenSandwich 9,797]

14 hours ago, longhornmatt said:

My view is that Shaka’s teams are very frustrating to watch, including this one, but we’re actually a good team this year with a chance to win some games in the tournament for the first time in about a decade.  So, we might as well enjoy it.  Kansas isn’t as talented as usual this year, but so what.  It’s still fun to beat them.

If better coaches had this roster and had been developing the upperclassmen the last few years, I think we could be a threat to win the national championship.   In the modern watered-down version of college basketball, we actually have a stacked roster in terms of experience, projected NBA draft picks, and recruiting rankings.   But we’re probably more like a Sweet Sixteen level team.  That’s the frustrating part, but oh well. And maybe we will get hot and make threes in the tournament to go on a deeper run.  If we do, it will be more enjoyable than anything Texas basketball has done since the mid 2000s when we last went on those type of runs.   

I don’t think there is any reason to worry about Shaka getting extended.  That would happen if we make the Final Four - in which case we would have enjoyed a Final Four for only the 2nd time any of us can remember.   But short of that, he’s not going to to get extended based on making the 2nd weekend of a tournament in a weird Covid year when the fans can’t even attend.   And we’re probably going to suck next year.  Frankly, I’d still be surprised if next year isn’t the last year for him. 

Just a few basic tweaks would help immensely. Watching the end of the game and OTs was nauseating. Always happy we won, but watching Shaka draw up an offensive plan for the last two mins that was literally have our three guards dribble and create a 3 pt attempt off the dribble. He doubled down on this play by pulling Kai/Brown for Brock, removing any ability to attack the rim on the floor. We played to jack a three and hope Brock could keep tipping it out for another. He is not threat for a put back offensive bucket/slam. Our best offense with these brick layers. 
 

Absolute fucking madness, and this was the fucking plan, after watching these three shoot all night.  Relying on our three guards at the same time makes us play like shit. Shaka doesn’t have the leadership to make one of those come off the bench without crushing their mental stability. 

[Ignatius 3,995]

1 hour ago, HookEm said:

Texas KU game thread seem an odd place for this debate.

Any post on the basketball board is the place for variation #5,000 of the same tired shit...

[Guest]

Texas sucks.  Don't y'all read CR?

[Steamboat1874 4,031]

14 hours ago, HookEm said:

Texas KU game thread seem an odd place for this debate.

This.....

[jimmyjazz 45,513]

On 2/25/2021 at 10:27 AM, shadow_operative said:

St.Louis

Courtney Ramey.

LMAO.

(Just giving you shit.)

[jimmyjazz 45,513]

On 2/25/2021 at 10:52 AM, ztejas said:

You can think whatever you want. I'm not really interested in engaging in such a plainly one-sided argument. Especially on an unrelated board.

Crimony, it's pretty easy to normalize to state population.  In terms of draft picks per capita, the most to least in the south (+ California) are:

Mississippi

Louisiana

Alabama

Georgia

Texas

Florida

California

 

So yes, the rural deep south is more productive than Texas, Florida and California.

 

[jimmyjazz 45,513]

21 hours ago, realgreggym said:

The old SWC looked at hoops as the time between football season and spring practice. 

 

The old SWC played hoops like football, too.

[ztejas 43,244]

18 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

So yes, the rural deep south is more productive than Texas, Florida and California.

I never said it wasn't. The original assertion was that Texas produces more elite basketball recruits than football recruits. Which no one has yet to begin to prove to me (probably because there aren't any metrics to support it because it isn't true). I see that Derka has listed some NBA players from Texas, so, cool? 

[shadow_operative 15,931]

28 minutes ago, ztejas said:

I never said it wasn't. The original assertion was that Texas produces more elite basketball recruits than football recruits. Which no one has yet to begin to prove to me (probably because there aren't any metrics to support it because it isn't true). I see that Derka has listed some NBA players from Texas, so, cool? 

Texas, in terms of HS football recruiting, is among the best states to recruit for college football prospects. But California and the other gulf states (+Georgia) are all in the conversation.

 In terms of basketball recruiting, Texas is either no.1 or no.2, and has been for some time now, for the reasons laid out by catdaddy. the yearly talent that comes from the DFW and Houston regions every year is as good as it gets anywhere in the country. then you still have the rest of the state producing good talent here and there, such as Atlanta's Daimion Collins (Kentucky commit) and Austin's KJ Adams (Kansas commit). Many people in CBB/recruiting circles consider Texas the most fertile recruiting ground in the country. 

[shadow_operative 15,931]

Texas HS Hoops Recruits

 

 

2014- 4 of the top 13, and 7 of the top 74 players in the country come from Texas, 

 

2015- 5 of the top 45, and 8 of the top 71

 

2016- 4 of the top 17, 5 of the top 29, and 8 of the top 64

 

2017- 4 of the top 56, 7 of the top 91

 

2018- down year- only 4 of the top 103

 

2019- 5 of the top 35, 8 of the top 53, 9 of the top 71

 

2020- only 4 in the top 100

 

2021- 4 of the top 35, 5 of the top 71

 

2022- 3 of the top 23, 10 in the top 66, 14 of the top 111

 

Now go compare that other states or large metro areas. Texas is the cream of the crop. 

[Catdaddyhorn 3,444]

Yeah it's kind of difficult to make an apples to apples comparison. When it comes to eventual pro talent, NFL players mostly come by means of domestic production, whereas domestic basketball players are competing with the entire globe. So as a function of a much more extensive process, NBA players are much more elite relative to their non-NBA peers than NFL players relative to their non-NFL peers. 

Edited February 26, 2021 by Catdaddyhorn

[shadow_operative 15,931]

Spoiler

 

@immamac i meant to put all of these photos under the spoiler alert thing, but i obviously failed at that. can you help me out? 

Edited February 26, 2021 by shadow_operative

[Lerka Lerka 1,084]

Wonder what Kerwin Roach is doing today?

[Machinator 32,097]

5 minutes ago, Lerka Lerka said:

Wonder what Kerwin Roach is doing today?

 

[HookEm 2,441]

Seems easy to compare Derka's post with football data...  

First number is from Derka's post above.  2nd set of numbers is football recruits from Texas. 

• 2014 top 13 - 3 BB vs. 1 FB
• 2015 top 45 - 5 BB vs. 4 FB
• 2016 top 17 - 4 BB vs. 2 FB
• 2017 top 56 - 4 BB vs. 5 FB
• 2018 top 103 - 4 BB vs. 9 FB
• 2019 top 35 - 5 BB vs. 8 FB
• 2020 top 100 - 4 BB vs. 9 FB
• 2021 top 35 - 4 BB vs. 8 FB
• Total - 33 BB vs. 46 FB

Better would be to use a standard population set, like top-100.  If we do that we get.

• 2014 - 7 BB vs. 12 FB
• 2015 - 9 BB vs. 12 FB
• 2016 - 9 BB vs. 10 FB
• 2017 - 4 BB vs. 10 FB
• 2018 - 5 BB vs. 7 FB
• 2019 - 9 BB vs. 13 FB
• 2020 - 4 BB vs. 9 FB
• 2021 - 5 BB vs. 16 FB
• Total - 52 BB vs. 89 FB

Bottom line, there is a TON of great talent coming out of Texas in hoops.  But there is still more football talent.

[MotownHorn 1,724]

41 minutes ago, Lerka Lerka said:

Wonder what Kerwin Roach is doing today?

smoking weed would be my guess

[shadow_operative 15,931]

On 2/24/2021 at 12:16 AM, shadow_operative said:

at this point, this is like saying, "yeah, it's true- you have a terminal cancer that is going to kill you slowly and painfully. but you did just win $50 on a scratch off, and that doesn't happen often, so cheer up!" 

with all due respect, to anyone in here who is happy or celebratory about tonight's win- i do not understand you. at all. what is there to be happy about? what is there to celebrate? oh good, we swept KU! that totally erases the glaring, obvious disadvantage we have at HC and how miserable the last five years/foreseeable future has been/will be. no. just no. there is nothing to be happy about. there is no hope for the future, neither short term nor long term. fuck a win against the shittiest Kansas team in 20 years. the cancer is still running rampant through the program, and beating this once-in-two-decades shitty KU team does nothing to assuage that. 

AAAHHHHHEEEMMMMMMM. 

[shadow_operative 15,931]

On 2/24/2021 at 10:08 AM, shadow_operative said:

like i said- if we had played well then i would have enjoyed the game and been happy afterward. but that didn't happen. the game started with Greg Brown shooting (see: bricking) a step back three after a between-the-legs dribble, and ended with Matt Coleman bricking a three while Texas had a two point lead with time running down, on a possession where never so much as looked at a better shot. and in both cases, that's how Shaka likes it. he's fine with those shots, even though we finished 5-26 from deep, something we do regularly as we continue to lose (or in this case win) by one possession. we outscored KU in the end, but that's beyond secondary for me when compared to how we got there.

 

AAAHHHEEEMMMMM.

Edited March 21, 2021 by shadow_operative

[shadow_operative 15,931]

On 2/24/2021 at 7:20 PM, shadow_operative said:

My take is in no way hard to understand either. We did not look good, we did not play well, and we made all of the same mistakes and blunders that have plagued Shaka's teams for years, leading to a league record well under .500 and a total of zero tourney wins. Our team hasn't played well or looked good since early January, and that didn't change last night, despite the win. i'm much more concerned about and focused on how shitty we've been since the new year than i am about being all celebratory and happy that we swept Kansas, as if that even means anything. I'd celebrate a well played, clean win vs KU. What I saw last night was not worth celebrating. 

But hey, when we lose by two in our 5/12 or 6/11 matchup to some mid major team in a game where we shoot 6-30 from deep, shoot 20 fewer FTs than our opponent, and waste a ton of possessions on crappy shots and lazy passes, you guys can still smile and high five and carry Shaka off the court on your shoulders because we swept the worst Kansas team anyone can remember. Huzzah!

AAAAAHHHHHHEEEEMMMMMMMMMM.

Edited March 21, 2021 by shadow_operative

[Wulaw Horn 18,963]

Derka I have a question for you:

on a scale of 1-10 how self loathing are you?  Because you know this shit about Shaka conclusively and still follow this train wreck passionately. I don’t understand how you can do such a thing. Are you also a cutter? 

[shadow_operative 15,931]

7 hours ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Derka I have a question for you:

on a scale of 1-10 how self loathing are you?  Because you know this shit about Shaka conclusively and still follow this train wreck passionately. I don’t understand how you can do such a thing. Are you also a cutter? 

it's beyond self loathing by now. it reminds me of 10-11 years ago when the football team lost at home to ISU. i'm sitting on my couch watching the game, Texas is losing by two TDs with like 90 seconds left and in the shadow of its own goalpost, and GDGD calls a play action pass. i was beyond anger and grief and hurt- i was maniacally laughing out loud at the hilarious, comical ineptitude on display. like, of course we just ran a run fake right there.  of course we just lost to a JV team from Abilene with no shooters, athletes, or size that shot 29% from the field. of course we did. that's who we are, and who we've been for some time.

as for all of the people who crushed me for my comments in this thread, and the people who again crushed me saying that Texas was a middle of the pack Big XII team, your conspicuous absence from this board/thread has been noted.

[Braff Zacklin 13,399]

19 minutes ago, shadow_operative said:

and the people who again crushed me saying that Texas was a middle of the pack Big XII team, your conspicuous absence from this board/thread has been noted.

I still object to that phrase because there certainly wasn't middle of the pack talent, athleticism, or potential ... nor were the results middle of the pack (tied for third in regular season play, first in the league tournament). 

As many good takes as you have, I also feel you have a habit of entrenching yourself into some questionable ones, and then you dig your foxhole and scream, "COME AT ME, BROS!"

It wouldn't be such a big deal except there are several people here who love nothing more than to come at you, unfortunately.

Just my unsolicited $0.02.

[CurlyDumps 4,439]

The Pollyanna goobers can celebrate our sweep of Kansas and super legit conference tourney till their dying days. 
 

This season was a true success! ❤️ ❤️ ❤️ 

[shadow_operative 15,931]

26 minutes ago, Braff Zacklin said:

I still object to that phrase because there certainly wasn't middle of the pack talent, athleticism, or potential ... nor were the results middle of the pack (tied for third in regular season play, first in the league tournament).

we were *tied* for third in the league without having to play Baylor in Waco. you guys cannot continue to gloss over this and act like what you're saying is genuine. had we played BU we would have finished *tied for 5th* in the league. that is the very definition of "middle of the pack", and the entire crux of your argument. "how can we be middle of the pack when we finished 3rd?!?!?!?". because we did not genuinely finish 3rd in the league, that's how. 

then there's the league tourney- we were 2.5 point underdogs to the 6 seed in game one, a game we won by one. we then beat OSU who we were favored against. that's the entire tourney! that's the amazing, chest pounding achievement that shows that we aren't middle of the pack: beating the 6 seed by one and then winning a game against a lower seeded team who were favored against. that's it. and yet your entire groups just sits there and says, "Texas just won the league!" without a trace of irony. again, this is completely disingenuous and you should be embarrassed to keep repeating it.

and finally, we went 5-5 against seeds 2-6 in the conference. that, again, is the definition of middle of the pack results. we got swept by the six seed, which really isn't that bad, because being a middle of the pack Big XII team this year equates to being a top 15-20 team in America. it is NOT the insult that y'all have acted like it is. you twist my words, then you ignore all points that i make in my follow up posts and act like like you're right. you're not. and you honestly should know that.

y'all are wrong. y'all are straight the fuck up wrong here, and your refusal to admit it, or to even address the fact that you KNOW that we would have finished *tied for 5th in the league* had we played BU twice is so disingenuous it's cowardly. some of you should be better than this, and i am frankly surprised that you aren't. 

Edited March 21, 2021 by shadow_operative

[Braff Zacklin 13,399]

This is kind of my point, Derka.

You insist on the COVID-impacted Baylor postponement as a loss if it had been played, yet you refuse to extend the same logic to the two COVID-impacted games that we did have to play despite being shorthanded and not being able to practice. Just as you don't doubt Baylor would have won (and I agree), I don't doubt Texas sweeps OU and WVU if it plays those games at full strength under "normal" conditions.

So, take away COVID, and it's a net gain of one W for Texas, which means the 'Horns finish in sole possession of second, no? Again, not middle of the pack.

Even so, both viewpoints are extrapolations because they did not happen. What did happen is that Texas finished tied for third. Texas also won the conference tournament title. Those are not middle-of-the-pack results.

It's a semantic argument, and really no big deal to me, so why you would end your diatribe with this...

Quote

y'all are wrong. y'all are straight the fuck up wrong here, and your refusal admit it, or to even address the fact that you KNOW that we would have finished *tied for 5th in the league* had we played BU twice is so disingenuous it's cowardly. 

... is exactly the sort of thing that many here take objection to.

Cowardly? Man, I'll be straight with you--it is flat out cowardly to talk to strangers over the Internet like you do.

I know you're a nice guy and you have a big heart when you're not running off the rails, but you forget yourself and your relationships at the drop of a hat as soon as someone disagrees with you, and that's super unfortunate.