#14 Texas vs. #17 Kansas - 8 PM, ESPN

[ztejas 44226]

2 minutes ago, shadow_operative said:

i've got it. here is the most succinct way i can describe why i'm not happy after last night's win:

you know how Courtney Ramey will chunk up a bunch of terrible shots on his way to a 2-11 (1-6 3PA) line from the field with three minutes to go and Texas losing by 5? Ramey will then take another terrible pull up three from 23 feet out before making a single pass, only this time the shot goes in to make it a two point game. it's still a terrible shot, and it's still the type of shot that got us into a hole in the first place, only this one went in. sorry, can't get excited about that. the fact that the shot went in this time doesn't make anything better- it only reinforces all of those other terrible shots from before.

What's worse is I saw almost everyone on the team do that last night. If you have one guy that does that, like Ramey, then you kind of take the good with the bad, but when you see Kai Jones do it, and Matt Coleman do it, and GB do it MULTIPLE times it's absolutely infuriating. When one guy does it you can maybe chalk it up to that player being a bit of a chucker - but when it's the whole fucking team it's 100% a coaching issue. 

[ClubWhatever 12299]

I can succinctly describe why that win doesn’t satisfy:  we are a dumb team.  

[gsoda3 3362]

2 hours ago, immamac said:

It's like watching a car wreck where your whole family dies. You watch hoping it doesn't happen the one time and then you feel better. [b]Unfortunately he's in a doom loop and the only thing to fix it is an elite 8 or final 4 appearance or shaka getting fired. [/b]

not gonna speak for derka, but for me it doesn't matter who the person is in charge as long as i see patterns of or processes toward improvement.  

[Brothahorn 10097]

Any win over our Basketball daddy is a good win. I'll accept it for what it is, while waiting for the next fuck up.

[Brothahorn 10097]

10 hours ago, realgreggym said:

Of course you don't understand. You have no real clue about game from a physical, mental or emotional viewpoint On one hand, you think Coach Smart is a bad coach. On the other hand, Bilas, Fran and others think he is a good coach. I am conflicted. Who should I believe? The guys with D1 playing and coaching experience or the guy who probably finished last in the highly regarded Backyard Basketball Warrior League. Gosh, this is a tough one. Only an idiot like you would find something to bitch about. Your schtick is worthless and I seriously doubt anyone here actually cares what you think.

Great comeback guys. Keep it going.  

Believe the on-court product. He is what his record and teams say he is. But that doesn't mean we can't enjoy a ray of sunshine every now and then. 

[Js1 87178]

3 minutes ago, Brothahorn said:

Believe the on-court product. He is what his record and teams say he is. But that doesn't mean we can't enjoy a ray of sunshine every now and then. 

This.

Beating KU is like beating OU in football - I ain't ever gonna be sad we won.  There's some programs you just love to fucking beat, no matter the circumstances. 

[Blackcat00 769]

Fuck Self and that cheating bastard. 

Never thought I would see Shaka hand him a broom. 

Edited February 24, 2021 by Blackcat00

[realgreggym 838]

23 minutes ago, Brothahorn said:

Believe the on-court product. He is what his record and teams say he is. But that doesn't mean we can't enjoy a ray of sunshine every now and then. 

Thats my point. We won and did something no team has done in the Big 12 and this little punk does nothing but complain. I have never seen a fan so butthurt about a coach leaving especially considering it was time for Coach Barnes to go. And I knew him a lot better than little gooey.

 

[Js1 87178]

1 minute ago, realgreggym said:

Thats my point. We won and did something no team has done in the Big 12 and this little punk does nothing but complain. I have never seen a fan so butthurt about a coach leaving especially considering it was time for Coach Barnes to go. And I knew him a lot better than little gooey.

 

OSU did it in 2018, actually.  They lost the third game in the Big 12 tournament though, 68-82

@ Kansas - W 84-79
Kansas - W 82-64

[ztejas 44226]

3 minutes ago, Js1 said:

OSU did it in 2018, actually.  They lost the third game in the Big 12 tournament though, 68-82

@ Kansas - W 84-79
Kansas - W 82-64

Baylor will probably do it, too.

Although osu will remain the only team to do it while playing an actual road game. 

[Js1 87178]

Just now, ztejas said:

Baylor will probably do it, too.

Although osu will remain the only team to do it while playing an actual road game. 

The Baylor game is Saturday, right? 

We'll see who is not yet back for Baylor. They had 3 players out. 

[ztejas 44226]

2 minutes ago, Js1 said:

The Baylor game is Saturday, right? 

We'll see who is not yet back for Baylor. They had 3 players out. 

Yeah. And they have a crazy stretch to close - WVU twice, Tech, okie lite and Kansas. Seriously doubt they go unscathed through that stretch.

[83Horn 1665]

3 hours ago, immamac said:

It's like watching a car wreck where your whole family dies. You watch hoping it doesn't happen the one time and then you feel better. Unfortunately he's in a doom loop and the only thing to fix it is an elite 8 or final 4 appearance or shaka getting fired. 

 

Would it though?  In that unlikely scenario, or an even more unlikely scenario that we win it all ( and no, I'm not suggesting that that is a possibility, just using exaggeration to illustrate a point), it seems that some would probably choose to be upset over the inevitable contract extension that Shaka would receive, rather that being happy that the team is winning.  All things considered, it is the University of Texas Longhorns, not the Shaka Smart Longhorns or the Tom Herman Longhorns, and I'm happy when the Longhorns win.  I do wish they would do more of it, and more consistently and convincingly, however.

[Machinator 32103]

Texas has made the Final Four once in the modern college basketball era. If that happened this season, I would be ecstatic, coaching situation be damned.

[ztejas 44226]

If Texas makes the Final Four I'd happily sit through another 5 years of Shakaball. 

But I don't expect that to happen. 

[Js1 87178]

Past the first weekend - another year won't kill me

Sweet 16 - okay 2 more years

Elite 8 - okay 3 more years

Final Four - okay 5 more years

[Sal 1108]

5 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Past the first weekend - another year won't kill me

Sweet 16 - okay 2 more years

Elite 8 - okay 3 more years

Final Four - okay 5 more years

No. 

[ztejas 44226]

4 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Past the first weekend - another year won't kill me

Sweet 16 - okay 2 more years

Elite 8 - okay 3 more years

Final Four - okay 5 more years

Past the first weekend and sweet 16 are the same thing. 

Sweet 16 and another year of Shaka wouldn't be the worst outcome - even though I'm not really convinced that should save his job. We're probably going to suck next year regardless.

Elite eight and an extension or even letting him coach out his current deal is danger zone territory to me. 

Final Four though, I'm saying fuck it let this shit ride. That doesn't grow on trees at Texas.

[Js1 87178]

6 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Past the first weekend and sweet 16 are the same thing. 

Sweet 16 and another year of Shaka wouldn't be the worst outcome - even though I'm not really convinced that should save his job. We're probably going to suck next year regardless.

Elite eight and an extension or even letting him coach out his current deal is danger zone territory to me. 

Final Four though, I'm saying fuck it let this shit ride. That doesn't grow on trees at Texas.

Should have been "past the first game" because that's an accomplishment for Texas, this decade.

We've only been to 7 Elite 8s ever, so that's still a big accomplishment for Texas. 

[Catdaddyhorn 3466]

I'm not sure if there's any room for balance here, but I'll give it a go. First of all, the example of horrible play provided by Derka doesn't strike me as a particularly egregious instance of a poorly coached team. There were actual examples throughout the game to point out, especially in comparison to other college teams. And I want to emphasize the comparison to other college teams here because most of us don't watch other teams and are often subconsciously comparing this team to the pros. College basketball is a horrible product and if you watch enough teams you realize that most teams really suck and routinely make inane decisions.

Anyway the play that Derka harped on as a poor example is a pistol or 21 action made famous by the Mark D'Antoni led Phoneix Suns. Many of us who followed that 7 seconds or less offense when they first came on the scene remember Nash doing the very same thing that Ramey is doing on that play. Nash would routinely bring the ball up the floor with pace to start a possesion and push it towards the baseline off of a pick or ghost action at the free throw line extended. The point there is to stress and collapse the defense or probe the baseline. Nash was famous for routinely taking the ball on through the baseline onto the other side of the court after this action. And if yall can think back there have been several times this year where Ramey or Coleman push it towards the baseline and drop it off to Brown or Kai Jones coming in from the weakside. Anyway the point there is to stress the d and open up a cut from the opposite wing. If it's not there or if the timing is off they reverse it back out to the top and re-initiate the offense. 

Edited February 24, 2021 by Catdaddyhorn

[ztejas 44226]

6 minutes ago, Js1 said:

We've only been to 7 Elite 8s ever, so that's still a big accomplishment for Texas.

Yeah but it shouldn't be that rare considering the caliber of players Texas has gotten this century. It's a nice accomplishment but not enough for me to warrant extending a guy that has already been here 6 years and would only have a tournament win in one season. 

[Machinator 32103]

6 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Should have been "past the first game" because that's an accomplishment for Texas, this decade.

 

That's not the correct way to assess the team, though. The underachievement of the past decade has no bearing on this year's team. The expectation should be a second weekend appearance, minimum.

I do agree that one win is probably enough to maintain status quo at head coach in the eyes of decision-makers.

[Blotto 24013]

we're probably  a lock for the tourney, which means we're a lock to see Shaka back. There's still a lot of economic pain in the athletic department, so we're not cutting Shaka that check. Only we he got fired after this season was missing the tourney. Don't get your hopes up.

I shudder to think what a run past the S16 may lead to, lulz. He's a top 20 paid coach without  single tourney win in 4 completed seasons, so unless  he reaches the final weekend, I wouldn't adjust his contract.

[HookEm 2509]

For me, if he makes it to the Sweet 16, I will give him another year. No problem.

But the slate isn't washed clean until he either makes the Final 4 or gets to at least a couple of Elite 8s. So until that happens, if a year goes by where he doesn't make a Sweet 16, we need to find somebody better.

Regardless, he isn't going anywhere this year.

[shadow_operative 15932]

2 hours ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

I'm not sure if there's any room for balance here, but I'll give it a go. First of all, the example of horrible play provided by Derka doesn't strike me as a particularly egregious instance of a poorly coached team. There were actual examples throughout the game to point out, especially in comparison to other college teams. And I want to emphasize the comparison to other college teams here because most of us don't watch other teams and are often subconsciously comparing this team to the pros. College basketball is a horrible product and if you watch enough teams you realize that most teams really suck and routinely make inane decisions.

Anyway the play that Derka harped on as a poor example is a pistol or 21 action made famous by the Mark D'Antoni led Phoneix Suns. Many of us who followed that 7 seconds or less offense when they first came on the scene remember Nash doing the very same thing that Ramey is doing on that play. Nash would routinely bring the ball up the floor with pace to start a possesion and push it towards the baseline off of a pick or ghost action at the free throw line extended. The point there is to stress and collapse the defense or probe the baseline. Nash was famous for routinely taking the ball on through the baseline onto the other side of the court after this action. And if yall can think back there have been several times this year where Ramey or Coleman push it towards the baseline and drop it off to Brown or Kai Jones coming in from the weakside. Anyway the point there is to stress the d and open up a cut from the opposite wing. If it's not there or if the timing is off they reverse it back out to the top and re-initiate the offense. 

lmao. are you seriously suggesting that running an offense tailored for Steve Nash with Courtney Ramey in the Nash role is a good and/or defensible thing? you know just as well as i do that Ramey's aimless, head-down drives end in disaster a lot more often than they do success. in one breath you say we should compare our team to other college teams, and not the pros, and in the next breath you defend that play by pointing to two-time MVP Steve Nash's success running similar plays in the NBA. i'm not sure that tracks.

as for that play "not striking you as being a particularly egregious example of a poorly coached team", I didn't post that video "as an example of a poorly coached team", i posted that video as an example of Shaka Smart's specific failings as a coach. Shaka wants Ramey to drive like that despite his habitual lack of success on said drives, he doesn't care that Ramey makes shitty passes which set his teammates up for failure, he doesn't care that Kai Jones takes such a low percentage shot without even trying to get a better look; none of it will ever be addressed. All of it is up to Shaka Smart's standards. that exact type of low percentage, aimless, empty possession takes place a dozen times per game and it never changes or gets any better.    if that doesn't upset you then i'll just continue to say that i don't understand that type of mentality. 

[shadow_operative 15932]

more things i do not understand: people waiting to see what we do in the 2021 tournament before deciding how they feel about Shaka being our HC going forward. anyone who doesn't have their mind firmly made up by now can't be taken seriously. i mean what the fuck? the last 5.75 years hasn't influenced you, but two random games a few weeks from now will? get out of here. 

Edited February 24, 2021 by shadow_operative

[HookEm 2509]

Like I said, the first year that Shaka fails to make the Sweet 16, he is gone if the decision is up to me. Say he only makes the round of 32 this year?  Gone. 

Obviously to take a stance like that, I'm not ignoring the last 6 years.  Nobody fires a coach who wins a tournament game without some extra baggage beyond the current year.  I don't think there is a person on this board who feels "good" about Shaka.  I have felt really good about this particular team at points through the year.  But again, it is going to take a Final 4 run or several Elite 8s for me to give Shaka a reset. That could still happen this year, but a round of 32 exit is probably more likely.

And really, any talk of whether Shaka should be fired or not is pointless mid-season unless he hits a player or molests someone.  

So Derka, is there anything that Shaka could do to redeem himself in your mind?  You've mentioned many times it is about the product on the court.  I'm not asking whether you think it is likely, rather what it would take for you do do a 180.  National Title?  3 straight Big-12 Titles?  Anything?

[Catdaddyhorn 3466]

7 minutes ago, shadow_operative said:

lmao. are you seriously suggesting that running an offense tailored for Steve Nash with Courtney Ramey in the Nash role is a good and/or defensible thing? you know just as well as i do that Ramey's aimless, head-down drives end in disaster a lot more often than they do success. in one breath you say we should compare our team to other college teams, and not the pros, and in the next breath you defend that play by pointing to two-time MVP Steve Nash's success running similar plays in the NBA. i'm not sure that tracks.

as for that play "not striking you as being a particularly egregious example of a poorly coached team", I didn't post that video "as an example of a poorly coached team", i posted that video as an example of Shaka Smart's specific failings as a coach. Shaka wants Ramey to drive like that despite his habitual lack of success on said drives, he doesn't care that Ramey makes shitty passes which set his teammates up for failure, he doesn't care that Kai Jones takes such a low percentage shot without even trying to get a better look; none of it will ever be addressed. All of it is up to Shaka Smart's standards. that exact type of low percentage, aimless, empty possession takes place a dozen times per game and it never changes or gets any better.    if that doesn't upset you then i'll just continue to say that i don't understand that type of mentality. 

Pistol action sets to initiate offense are as much of a staple of modern basketball as the 4 corners were back before the shot clock. Nobody would describe it as a set specifically for Steve Nash. I just brought him up because he was part of the team that originated it and his actions off of it, particularly dribbling along the baseline, are a hallmark that I thought would be familiar to posters.

 This is not the first time you've made a video about an action you clearly know nothing about. I remember a few months back you ranting on and on about your disgust over poor screens not realizing that they were actually ghost screens and part of the design. Now we can't be happy about sweeping fucking KU because "Oh my God!! Kai took a bad shot!!". Now let me make a video about it and make 100 posts over the fact that a college basketball player took a bad shot. You've pretty much ruined this board with endless negativity. Nobody can even display a smidgeon of joy over the fact that we swept Kansas. We really are a miserable fucking fanbase and you're the fucking avatar for it.

[Js1 87178]

There's only so many teams that run good looking offenses (Gonzaga and Villanova are two that come to mind) in college ball - most of it is butt fucking ugly.  Shaka's offense isn't the outlier.  Gonzaga and Villanova are. 

[Bottlecap 1523]

Thats not true at all (look around the league, no one's asking for the 90-91 Runnin Rebels, but some offensive philosophy would be nice). And especially not with this talent. We can't even break a shitty 3-2 zone with a couple of backdoor cuts. Our 3s just get further away.

[Catdaddyhorn 3466]

17 minutes ago, Js1 said:

There's only so many teams that run good looking offenses (Gonzaga and Villanova are two that come to mind) in college ball - most of it is butt fucking ugly.  Shaka's offense isn't the outlier.  Gonzaga and Villanova are. 

And aesthetically speaking, this year's Villanova offense, not that great.

[Catdaddyhorn 3466]

19 minutes ago, Bottlecap said:

Thats not true at all (look around the league, no one's asking for the 90-91 Runnin Rebels, but some offensive philosophy would be nice). And especially not with this talent. We can't even break a shitty 3-2 zone with a couple of backdoor cuts. Our 3s just get further away.

We're currently 21st in offensive efficiency. Our main issue is we have 2 ball stoppers in Ramey and occasionally Andrew Jones who force the dribble too much instead of moving it when we get things going. On those few occasions where we get players moving and move the ball around without too much dribble probing you can understand the design of our offense and the purpose of some of our alignments. We actually create a lot of space at times on a ball side pick'n roll where only the ball handler and someone like Sims or Hamm are alone on one side of the court. A more instinctive pg like TJ or DJ would kill in some of those alignments. 

Edited February 24, 2021 by Catdaddyhorn

[shadow_operative 15932]

our offense would be immensely more efficient and fun to watch if we valued the ball at all. that's why this is all so frustrating. i made a post in the game thread last night where i said that this team has proven that it can run good sets and get good looks, but instead we *choose* to waste probably 10-15 possessions each night due to our totally correctable, but completely unchecked problems with basic basketball fundamentals. better passing, increased passing, not settling for the first open look, more off-ball movement, fewer stupid shots; but no. no. we just live with Ramey and Kai and Brown taking any shot at any time.

the same players make the same mistakes game after game, and there's no evident attempt to correct any of it. when our first shot of the night was a Greg Brown step back three (which he predictably bricked), there was never going to be any way to enjoy that game. Shaka is totally ok with starting the night off like that, and that is why the fact that we actually won the game does not make me happy or bring me any kind of joy. we will always be running at somewhere between 60-80% of our potential because our coach does not even see any problem with our crappy shooters taking crappy shots from the opening tip to the final buzzer. just keep firing the first shot you see while the other four guys stand on the perimeter and watch. it's madness. 

 

edit: oh yeah, and besides being more palatable to watch, we'd also have a lot more wins, which seems kind of important. how many years in a row can we have 7 or 8 one-possession losses before we stop letting the players take 15 terrible shots per game?

Edited February 24, 2021 by shadow_operative

[jimmyjazz 47152]

18-21 year old kids generally aren't mature enough to grab the reins and manage the game in an optimal way.  Shaka isn't a good enough coach to demand these guys play to their strengths.  So, we're fucked.  We will get the occasional win over a very below-par KU team, and we'll get beat by WVU by blowing a 19 point halftime lead.

This is all predictable.  I mean, it's predictable in the aggregate.  Any one game?  Who the fuck knows.

What we do know is that Shaka has almost nothing to do with this team's success, other than recruiting guys to the 40 Acres.  Beyond that, he basically rolls the ball out and it's up to the whims and vagaries of old teenagers to get the job done.

How much more evidence do people need?  I will NEVER root against Texas, I love it when we win and hate it when we lose, but Shaka Smart has almost nothing to do with any success, save recruiting guys to campus.

[ztejas 44226]

2 hours ago, shadow_operative said:

more things i do not understand: people waiting to see what we do in the 2021 tournament before deciding how they feel about Shaka being our HC going forward. anyone who doesn't have their mind firmly made up by now can't be taken seriously. i mean what the fuck? the last 5.75 years hasn't influenced you, but two random games a few weeks from now will? get out of here. 

Well... I thought he should have been fired after year 3. But here we are. Whatever this team does or doesn't do from here on out, this is the best team Shaka has had. Do I think he has improved significantly as a coach in that span? Not really. Do I think there is a chance that he comes around as a coach and enjoys a higher level of success from here on out? Maybe. I was entertaining that idea a bit more seriously in early January. Do I think this season should be judged on anything other than how Texas does in the tournament? Not really, and I don't think any season should be unless Texas is contending for a B12 title, and they aren't this season (and I think tournament conference titles are pretty meaningless in a conference that plays double round robin). 

There is something different about this team. Maybe it's just talent and experience, but if I'm being honest, none of these guys really consistently impress me on an individual level. There are things that just feel different. Like things that I expect a Shaka-led team to do that they don't or vice versa. Coming back from 14 down against Kansas is one of those things. I thought they'd blow the first Okie Lite game and they didn't. I didn't think they had any business winning the first WVU game and they did. I really do keep wanting to detach and completely give up but I just can't, and some part of me still thinks they could be great in March.

So they either make an awesome tourney run winning 3 or 4 games and that small voice or suspicion or whatever you want to call it ends up being verified to some degree and I'm okay with seeing Shaka take one more stab at it....

OR...

They flame out in the first or second round and I'm back to being cynical and apathetic and in most ways right about Shaka all along. 

I guess that's why I am not 100% in yet on firing him after this season. 

[Revolution512 1518]

11 hours ago, Js1 said:

Yes I get that. Derka can feel how he feels. It’s basically the basketball version of beating OU twice in one season (if game 2 wasn’t a champ game). KU has had our number for years. Felt nice to sweep them. 

Exactly, this isn’t hard to understand. Being happy about this doesn’t equate to thinking Shaka is the future.

[shadow_operative 15932]

18 minutes ago, Revolution512 said:

Exactly, this isn’t hard to understand. Being happy about this doesn’t equate to thinking Shaka is the future.

My take is in no way hard to understand either. We did not look good, we did not play well, and we made all of the same mistakes and blunders that have plagued Shaka's teams for years, leading to a league record well under .500 and a total of zero tourney wins. Our team hasn't played well or looked good since early January, and that didn't change last night, despite the win. i'm much more concerned about and focused on how shitty we've been since the new year than i am about being all celebratory and happy that we swept Kansas, as if that even means anything. I'd celebrate a well played, clean win vs KU. What I saw last night was not worth celebrating. 

But hey, when we lose by two in our 5/12 or 6/11 matchup to some mid major team in a game where we shoot 6-30 from deep, shoot 20 fewer FTs than our opponent, and waste a ton of possessions on crappy shots and lazy passes, you guys can still smile and high five and carry Shaka off the court on your shoulders because we swept the worst Kansas team anyone can remember. Twice. Huzzah!

[shadow_operative 15932]

and here's the major disconnect between me and you guys that's killing me- you're all out here going, "well maybe this will happen in the tournament, maybe we'll go on a run, maybe we make the Elite 8, let's wait and see what happens there." 

HELLO. how do you think we go on this magical tourney run if we don't change and correct the habitual blunders which plague this team? yes, we won the game last night, but would that performance have been good enough to win even a first round game? did our team give you any reason to believe that it can win three or four tourney games with that performance? no! and yet you sit here, just totally incredulous at the idea that i'm not happy.

i'll be happy when our team stops shooting itself in the foot all game every game and actually gives me a reason to believe that it can make a deep run. we know we're in the tourney, and right now the games are not as much about winning as they are about how the team is actually playing. i don't give a damn if we lose to TTU and OU in the coming days so long as we give a good performance while doing so. If we take better shots, if we cut down on the sloppy passes, if we attempt 15-17 good looks from deep as opposed to our usual 30+ mostly questionable shots from deep and we still lose, then fuck it; i'm fine with that. if the team is playing to its potential then i'm happy. but this shit that we've seen since the first week of January? this sloppy, lazy, no-defense playing shit? until that changes then we ain't winning shit in the postseason, so don't ask me why im not happy. 

Edited February 25, 2021 by shadow_operative

[Machinator 32103]

None of us thinks it's likely. It's a discussion of how we reach the point where we as a message board fanbases are happy about a Texas win, regardless of how it happens.

Edited February 25, 2021 by Machinator

[LTtxfan 49996]

9 minutes ago, shadow_operative said:

HELLO. how do you think we go on this magical tourney run if we don't change and correct the habitual blunders which plague this team?

Shadow Derka,

HELLO??

It's called March Madness.  Even this current TEXAS team could get hot enough in the Tourney and make it to the 2nd weekend... 🤘

[MotownHorn 1895]

4 hours ago, shadow_operative said:

more things i do not understand: people waiting to see what we do in the 2021 tournament before deciding how they feel about Shaka being our HC going forward. anyone who doesn't have their mind firmly made up by now can't be taken seriously. i mean what the fuck? the last 5.75 years hasn't influenced you, but two random games a few weeks from now will? get out of here. 

Of course you don't understand why people care about how we do in the tournament. your favorite coach is literally one of the worst tournament coaches of all time.

Most college b-ball fans care more about wins in March than wins in January.

[shadow_operative 15932]

2 minutes ago, MotownHorn said:

Of course you don't understand why people care about how we do in the tournament. your favorite coach is literally one of the worst tournament coaches of all time.

Most college b-ball fans care more about wins in March than wins in January.

lmao. no shit Sherlock. and how many tourney wins does Shaka have at Texas? oh. ok. 

[HookEm 2509]

I’m not SUPER worried about a day one flameout with this group. Our worst loss is to OSU in double OT. They are better than who we will play in round 1. According to Massey, our losses are to the #2, #8, #13, #18, #19, and #35 teams. We won’t see teams at that level until the 2nd or 3rd game in the tourney.

[shadow_operative 15932]

12 minutes ago, HookEm said:

I’m not SUPER worried about a day one flameout with this group. Our worst loss is to OSU in double OT. They are better than who we will play in round 1. According to Massey, our losses are to the #2, #8, #13, #18, #19, and #35 teams. We won’t see teams at that level until the 2nd or 3rd game in the tourney.

you can definitely face a top 35 team in round one as a 5 or 6 seed. 

edited to add:

2019 final Kenpom rankings/tourney seed

Florida- #26 in kenpom, a 10 seed

Oregon- #28 in kenpom, a 12 seed

St.Mary's- #31 in Kenpom, an 11 seed

Edited February 25, 2021 by shadow_operative

[Revolution512 1518]

38 minutes ago, shadow_operative said:

My take is in no way hard to understand either. We did not look good, we did not play well, and we made all of the same mistakes and blunders that have plagued Shaka's teams for years, leading to a league record well under .500 and a total of zero tourney wins. Our team hasn't played well or looked good since early January, and that didn't change last night, despite the win. i'm much more concerned about and focused on how shitty we've been since the new year than i am about being all celebratory and happy that we swept Kansas, as if that even means anything. I'd celebrate a well played, clean win vs KU. What I saw last night was not worth celebrating. 

But hey, when we lose by two in our 5/12 or 6/11 matchup to some mid major team in a game where we shoot 6-30 from deep, shoot 20 fewer FTs than our opponent, and waste a ton of possessions on crappy shots and lazy passes, you guys can still smile and high five and carry Shaka off the court on your shoulders because we swept the worst Kansas team anyone can remember. Twice. Huzzah!

Program firsts always mean something. We know this isn’t a well oiled machine, it’s frustrating and hard to watch. But I’ll still be as excited as ever for March Madness. It’s the best sporting event for me and it takes on a whole new meaning when your team is in it.

As far as the team goes, yes the shot selection can be shit at times. I’m more concerned about our drop off on the defensive end. This should be an elite defensive group.

[shadow_operative 15932]

18 minutes ago, MotownHorn said:

Of course you don't understand why people care about how we do in the tournament. your favorite coach is literally one of the worst tournament coaches of all time.

Most college b-ball fans care more about wins in March than wins in January.

oh yeah, this is like the 15th time you've brought up Barnes out of nowhere. i don't know anyone more obsessed with the man than you. also, for the entire decade of the aughts Rick Barnes (your boy) was one of the 5 or 6 best tourney coaches in America. meanwhile Shaka doesn't have a tourney win since 2013. 8 years ago. but great fucking post, other than all that. 

[83Horn 1665]

5 hours ago, HookEm said:

For me, if he makes it to the Sweet 16, I will give him another year. No problem.

But the slate isn't washed clean until he either makes the Final 4 or gets to at least a couple of Elite 8s. So until that happens, if a year goes by where he doesn't make a Sweet 16, we need to find somebody better.

Regardless, he isn't going anywhere this year.

I understand that we should be striving for championships and all, but historically speaking, that just doesn't happen with Texas Men's Basketball.  In the last 50 years, we have been to 1 Final Four, 3 Elite Eights, and 8 Sweet Sixteens.  Tom Penders and Rick Barnes, the most successful coaches in school history, combined for a grand total of 5 Conference Championships in 27 years.  The norm for Texas basketball is a regular season win total in the mid-20s, a second or third place finish in conference and a first or second round exit from the NCAA tournament.  Based on our history, I just don't think that expecting Shaka to be fired if he doesn't win conference championships and go three or four games deep into the NCAA tournament on a regular basis is realistic. There just isn't that kind of tradition here for basketball.  Perhaps it's a function of my age, but I just have more tempered expectations for the basketball team than I do for the other sports.

[shadow_operative 15932]

1 hour ago, 83Horn said:

I understand that we should be striving for championships and all, but historically speaking, that just doesn't happen with Texas Men's Basketball.  In the last 50 years, we have been to 1 Final Four, 3 Elite Eights, and 8 Sweet Sixteens.  Tom Penders and Rick Barnes, the most successful coaches in school history, combined for a grand total of 5 Conference Championships in 27 years.  The norm for Texas basketball is a regular season win total in the mid-20s, a second or third place finish in conference and a first or second round exit from the NCAA tournament.  Based on our history, I just don't think that expecting Shaka to be fired if he doesn't win conference championships and go three or four games deep into the NCAA tournament on a regular basis is realistic. There just isn't that kind of tradition here for basketball.  Perhaps it's a function of my age, but I just have more tempered expectations for the basketball team than I do for the other sports.

you are not wrong, but i would respond by saying that what Rick Barnes did from 1999-2010 was change the status quo for Texas Basketball- he elevated it to a point where he missed the tourney one time and got fired. Shaka was brought in to get results in line with Barnes' results from his first 10 years, not his last seven. Shaka has already shown that he struggles to finish in the top half of the conference and make the tourney every year. That's clearly not what he was hired for. Because of the success brought by Barnes, TJ, PJ, LA, DJ, KD, et al, the bar has been raised. Texas basketball now has a name that rings out. We have cache, and we've shown that you if you come here we can get you to the NBA asap. i would hate to think that we watched our program grow to that level, then fired our greatest coach ever for falling off of that level, only to then deem it acceptable to revert to Penders era levels of success when the next guy comes in and is mediocre for six straight years. 

Edited February 25, 2021 by shadow_operative

[dcar00 14951]

1 hour ago, 83Horn said:

I understand that we should be striving for championships and all, but historically speaking, that just doesn't happen with Texas Men's Basketball.  In the last 50 years, we have been to 1 Final Four, 3 Elite Eights, and 8 Sweet Sixteens.  Tom Penders and Rick Barnes, the most successful coaches in school history, combined for a grand total of 5 Conference Championships in 27 years.  The norm for Texas basketball is a regular season win total in the mid-20s, a second or third place finish in conference and a first or second round exit from the NCAA tournament.  Based on our history, I just don't think that expecting Shaka to be fired if he doesn't win conference championships and go three or four games deep into the NCAA tournament on a regular basis is realistic. There just isn't that kind of tradition here for basketball.  Perhaps it's a function of my age, but I just have more tempered expectations for the basketball team than I do for the other sports.

we aren't looking for regular, we are looking for ONCE.

[HookEm 2509]

Exactly. The bar for Shaka is higher now because he gave us this shit sandwich for the last 6 years. It is going to take a lot for me to forget all that.