First migrant facility for children opens under Biden

[Biff Tannen 45495]

49 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

You are unbelievable vapid. 

stealing this

[Hookah Horns 3081]

6 hours ago, fakebusiness said:

At the end of the day you don't care about any of this. Like AOC I believe this is wrong under any admib. YOU don't. Because you're a disingenuous clown.

This is wrong:

https://www.aclu.org/press-releases/aclu-calls-new-trump-administration-family-separation-numbers-shocking

This is also wrong:

https://www.aclu.org/press-releases/aclu-sues-obama-administration-detaining-asylum-seekers-intimidation-tactic

Still waiting for your proposal on what to do with these kids. 

[Captainant 27464]

Just now, Hookah Horns said:

Still waiting for your proposal on what to do with these kids. 

lol you're gonna be waiting for a minute

[RomaVicta 29793]

3 hours ago, Biff Tannen said:

Can someone tell me what kind of a world we are living in where the entire purpose of a political party is to play disingenuous and hypocritical gotcha games after they tried to destroy the very fabric of our system of government for the last 4 years?  I'm fucking tired of it.

They're going back to what worked prior to Trump not realizing that this infernal habit is what opened the door for Trump.

Lies beget liars. Liars beget monsters.

Mitch McConnel and the criminal operation known as the GOP doesn't care an iota about Trump's damage to the USA. They only care that he was out of their control. They will happily recruit another Trump (Cruz, Hawley, Q-anon girl 1 or girl 2) and let that person rain havoc so long as the GOPs and their rich, white constituency get what they want.

I, too, am tired of it, my friend. But it seems to be a juggernaut that we may have paused  but not halted altogether.

[CowboyFred 1151]

2 hours ago, fattyflattie said:

I bet many are.  And I bet we’d get a helluva 180* on open borders movement/loose immigration reform if they start voting like South Texas Hispanics have recently.  

Being a South Texas Hispanic from the border I’d like to reply: the recent voting in the presidential election that favored trump or an increased voter total in his favor is not easily explained looking at the numbers only.  
For example, in Laredo, a large portion of the population works in the oilfield or for border patrol.  The oilfield allows many who would otherwise be working a dead end job the opportunity to earn great money.  I have no issues with people making money but their lack of education or ability to use critical thinking with regards to understanding policies that would either help or hurt their profession added to the increased support.  In their minds, Biden (democrats) were going to end oilfield/fracking work for good when in reality Biden’s stated agenda for fracking was not to issue new permits on federal land.  That lie was parroted on Facebook and in the news by right leaning news outlets and spread like wildfire in Laredo.  

Regarding BP, it provides a great paying federal job for many that wouldn’t otherwise qualify for such a high paying government job.  One of my cousins, literally known in the family as not the brightest of his siblings, is now a recruiting supervisor after about 10 years experience.  I remember he would brag about how he didn’t have to go to school and is still taking home over 100K while I was struggling to get through undergrad and law school.  Many friends that became agents would brag about getting paid to sit in their Tahoe’s and watch movies while parked on a ranch close to the border.  One BP agent on my Facebook feed (now since deactivated because fuck Facebook) even was advocating for Texas to secede from the US if Biden wins.  Mindblown.gif

The sad reality is that many of the Hispanic citizens along the border, many only a generation removed from living across the border, think so lowly about our neighbors from the south.  The mentality is “fuck them, I got mine.”  They’ll claim that “They’re stealing our jobs” yet they don’t care that “Don Juan” who is mowing their lawn or remodeling their kitchen is here illegally because he will do it for cheaper.  They'll cross the border to see the doctor because it’s cheaper.  Additionally a sad reality that I’ve seen with a few acquaintances and distant family is that they fall for many of the conspiracies that are spread like wild fire on Facebook.  I blame our education system in Texas for this shit but in my opinion it is part of the reason for the increase in support for trump this past election.

[fattyflattie 4636]

57 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Guys, he is pleading ignorance and failure to give a shit enough to correct himself. Obviously we should give him (or her) a break. 

Like I said, it’s truth. Only thing I ever noticed was the red next to his name. But who’s sock he was or posting style, forgetaboutit. 

[Hookah Horns 3081]

2 hours ago, DonkeyCigars said:

Speaking of adequate representation, I think ultimately we need to determine what is it we want from the Democratic Republic. Do we want equal representation by states as a federated system-- you know, a united group of states, or United States-- because we (states) are all equal partners in this experiment? Or, do we want to be more metocratic and favor big populations and cities and do away with the electoral college?

Both sides have pros and cons (EC, representation of smaller populations, potential to have a non-majority in power, etc.), but we need to iron out the mission first. Then we can determine a model or models.

Definitely more metocratic. Not sure what that means but if it involves every citizen's vote having equal value, I'm in. 

[Celery Man 20886]

Quote

posts about how doing good things and doing bad things are the same if the actors are seeking power

 

[RomaVicta 29793]

1 hour ago, Neonmoon said:

What happened to the intelligent conservatives? I mean, I swear to god, I used to know them. 

They're here being called fanatical, antifa-loving circle-jerkers by people calling themselves conservatives without any concept of what that is supposed to mean.

An intelligent person calling himself a GOP conservative is a steady customer of fear mongers and likely puts self above all. They're thinking is unbalanced by hysteria.

[ndawg 1242]

3 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

They're here being called fanatical, antifa-loving circle-jerkers by people calling themselves conservatives without any concept of what that is supposed to mean.

An intelligent person calling himself a GOP conservative is a steady customer of fear mongers and likely puts self above all. They're thinking is unbalanced by hysteria.

In other words, they're standing athwart stupidity, yelling, "STOP!"

[fattyflattie 4636]

2 minutes ago, CowboyFred said:

The sad reality is that many of the Hispanic citizens along the border, many only a generation removed from living across the border, think so lowly about our neighbors from the south.  The mentality is “fuck them, I got mine.”  They’ll claim that “They’re stealing our jobs” yet they don’t care that “Don Juan” who is mowing their lawn or remodeling their kitchen is here illegally because he will do it for cheaper.  They'll cross the border to see the doctor because it’s cheaper.  Additionally a sad reality that I’ve seen with a few acquaintances and distant family is that they fall for many of the conspiracies that are spread like wild fire on Facebook.  I blame our education system in Texas for this shit but in my opinion it is part of the reason for the increase in support for trump this past election.

Don’t want to long cat but great post. I spend quite a bit of time down there myself (but not Hispanic or from there) and I’ve seen plenty of the same.  

I was only using it as an example, though. My greater point was that, I feel, that the parties don’t gaf about individuals, but whatever puts and keeps them in power.  And that if over the next 3 elections cycles, Hispanics went 90% R, the D’s would have a tremendously different outlook on immigration strategy.  They may care more than R’s, but they care more about staying in power than any one group.  I understand many don’t feel this way, and the argument already happened with Donkey cigar upthread.   They understand DC went 95% for Biden. They know what PR is going to do, it’s been studied.  If not they’d only be trying for DC. This shit isn’t as touchy feely feel good as people make it out to be.  It’s all about staying in control. 

[Hookah Horns 3081]

45 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

If I was in charge of China, I'd be making hyper aggressive moves in Asia already.  We simply don't have the ability to tolerate a draft as a people anymore.  And as long as they keep it away from our land and waters, we would descend into civil war before we unified against an external threat.

If China invaded and promised they're only taking the west coast, the Rs would probably be cool with it. They'd definitely be cool with it if the alternative was a draft. 

[RDCanecutter 26276]

20 minutes ago, CowboyFred said:

The sad reality is that many of the Hispanic citizens along the border, many only a generation removed from living across the border, think so lowly about our neighbors from the south.  The mentality is “fuck them, I got mine.” 

I heard a really long joke, told completely in Spanish, about two friends from Mexico who plan to sneak into the US together. It goes on with them talking about all the stuff they're gonna do in the US, all in Spanish. They go to crawl through a last tangle of wire, first dude gets through, second dude gets hung up somehow. In Spanish, second dude begs his friend to come back and help him.

First dude looks down at the US soil on which he's standing, looks back at his friend, and says, in English:

"What?"

[Willfully Horn 7913]

Release unaccompanied minors to family here in the US. (I assume this is happening). Allow these kids a path to citizenship.

Invest in the legal apparatus that determines the validity of asylum claims. Afford asylum seekers legal representation. Clear the backlog.

 

[Js1 85110]

5 minutes ago, Willfully Horn said:

Release unaccompanied minors to family here in the US. (I assume this is happening). Allow these kids a path to citizenship.

Invest in the legal apparatus that determines the validity of asylum claims. Afford asylum seekers legal representation. Clear the backlog.

 

They have to find family first. Also AMNESTY! SOCIALISM!!!!!! 

[DonkeyCigars 144]

26 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

Don’t want to long cat but great post. I spend quite a bit of time down there myself (but not Hispanic or from there) and I’ve seen plenty of the same.  

I was only using it as an example, though. My greater point was that, I feel, that the parties don’t gaf about individuals, but whatever puts and keeps them in power.  And that if over the next 3 elections cycles, Hispanics went 90% R, the D’s would have a tremendously different outlook on immigration strategy.  They may care more than R’s, but they care more about staying in power than any one group.  I understand many don’t feel this way, and the argument already happened with Donkey cigar upthread.   They understand DC went 95% for Biden. They know what PR is going to do, it’s been studied.  If not they’d only be trying for DC. This shit isn’t as touchy feely feel good as people make it out to be.  It’s all about staying in control. 

1000% agree with you here, and I think it’s a reasoned opinion and you can defend the value of the take as well as you can any takes that would oppose it.

But because it’s not a popular take you will be called vapid and stupid by some mediocre minds, so steel yourself 😂

Edited February 24, 2021 by DonkeyCigars

[DonkeyCigars 144]

1 hour ago, ndawg said:

Neither are true. Your assertion that morality is only found at the extremes of the spectrum is not true. The counterargument I was suggesting you explore is not itself true. The latter was only meant to reveal a flaw in the former, and there will be further flaws in that counterargument that additional scrutiny would reveal.

Your worldview includes your belief that politicians in the middle of our left/right political spectrum are motivated by the pursuit of power -- because if they weren't, you seemed to argue, they'd hold one of the more ideological positions that is found on the extremes. That belief can be easily refuted. A politician who is driven to make maximum progress toward their ideal can easily justify a steadfast commitment to the middle: progress can only be made at the negotiating table, after all.

I don't want to come across like a condescending prick, and I'm trying to avoid sermonizing you. However, the opinions you're espousing simply haven't been tempered by even minimal critical thinking. You can clearly apply critical thinking towards the opinions of others, so why not apply it towards your own?

Again, thanks for your post, good stuff.

Maybe I’m hitting the ceiling of my cognitive abilities here, but I’m not sure I follow how your first paragraph is accurate.

My assertion and your argument both seem to be true and not true, at the same time and not at all, depending on who is viewing it and at what angle. This gets to the crux of the issue I guess I’m having with politics in general and discussions with the community here in the Cloak Room writ large: if I am right and you are right and we are both wrong, then how are we supposed to find alignment and even respect for one another outside of a tradition of decorum and being raised with manners?

And in 2021 politics is not a gentleman’s sport steeped in the aforementioned traditions. It’s been, ironically, “democratized”, for both sides which is pure, random chaos. Which I guess explains Trump (joking).

Edited February 24, 2021 by DonkeyCigars

[GW Hayduke 1952]

We need our Democratic representatives to be more responsible on twitter.  Has AOC clarified or retracted her tweet? 

[Biff Tannen 45495]

What I've learned in this thread is that Donkey doesn't see a difference between good and evil.  That seems like it could be problematic, in an existential sort of way.

[Dahobbs 17447]

29 minutes ago, DonkeyCigars said:

1000% agree with you here, and I think it’s a reasoned opinion and you can defend the value of the take as well as you can any takes that would oppose it.

But because it’s not a popular take you will be called vapid and stupid by some mediocre minds, so steel yourself 😂

Look guys, because it is politics, there is no good and no bad. Stopping people voting and expanding access to voting are equally bad because maybe the motives are the same (not that DonkeyCigars has even attempted to understand the motives of those wanting to, gasp, expand the grasp of democracy). 

[Dahobbs 17447]

18 minutes ago, DonkeyCigars said:

Again, thanks for your post, good stuff.

Maybe I’m hitting the ceiling of my cognitive abilities here, but I’m not sure I follow how your first paragraph is accurate.

My assertion and your argument both seem to be true and not true, at the same time and not at all, depending on who is viewing it and at what angle. This gets to the crux of the issue I guess I’m having with politics in general and discussions with the community here in the Cloak Room writ large: if I am right and you are right and we are both wrong, then how are we supposed to find alignment and even respect for one another outside of a tradition of decorum and being raised with manners?

And in 2021 politics is not a gentleman’s sport steeped in the aforementioned traditions. It’s been, ironically, “democratized”, for both sides which is pure, random chaos. Which I guess explains Trump (joking).

What a bunch of fucking nonsense. You aren't right. You are wrong. You've been wrong this whole time. The only reason you have to twist yourself in this weird existential circle is because you refuse to face the fact that you're fucking wrong about pretty much everything. 

[DonkeyCigars 144]

Is there a more tired literary trope than the exaggerated-and-jocular-paraphrase-but-stripped-of-any-of-the-nuance-parody-POV? Or is it just a lazy way to end a conversation? I’ll hang up and listen DaHobbs.

[DonkeyCigars 144]

2 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

What a bunch of fucking nonsense. You aren't right. You are wrong. You've been wrong this whole time. The only reason you have to twist yourself in this weird existential circle is because you refuse to face the fact that you're fucking wrong about pretty much everything. 

This is better thank you. I’ll bow out now. Good evening, be well.

[FondrenRoad 4378]

45 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

Don’t want to long cat but great post. I spend quite a bit of time down there myself (but not Hispanic or from there) and I’ve seen plenty of the same.  

I was only using it as an example, though. My greater point was that, I feel, that the parties don’t gaf about individuals, but whatever puts and keeps them in power.  And that if over the next 3 elections cycles, Hispanics went 90% R, the D’s would have a tremendously different outlook on immigration strategy.  They may care more than R’s, but they care more about staying in power than any one group.  I understand many don’t feel this way, and the argument already happened with Donkey cigar upthread.   They understand DC went 95% for Biden. They know what PR is going to do, it’s been studied.  If not they’d only be trying for DC. This shit isn’t as touchy feely feel good as people make it out to be.  It’s all about staying in control. 

Focusing on immigration is still racially charged. Immigrants, especially newer Latino immigrants, are more socially conservative than white Americans in general. They also lead a bootstraps life. They wouldn't be natural enemies of the GOP if not for the race issue. Same with black people. They are also more socially conservative on average. Both Latinos and blacks are also more likely to be Christian.  They both offer pretty much everything the GOP platform wants except for their skin color. 

So you could get your economic libertarianism with them. And could maybe even get the "Christian nation" going.  But you'd have to stop attacking them first.  Part of that would be allowing for broader immigration.  Clearly, we need people to come and do the work that illegal immigrants come to do so let them do it on the books.  In a way, this has worked out for the Dems as it has allowed for us to make civil rights strides for LGBTQ people with allies that would ordinarily be socially conservative but have full knowledge of what it's like to be on the wrong end of a hate crime.  

[Dahobbs 17447]

22 minutes ago, DonkeyCigars said:

Is there a more tired literary trope than the exaggerated-and-jocular-paraphrase-but-stripped-of-any-of-the-nuance-parody-POV? Or is it just a lazy way to end a conversation? I’ll hang up and listen DaHobbs.

 

21 minutes ago, DonkeyCigars said:

This is better thank you. I’ll bow out now. Good evening, be well.

Your posts parody themselves. You're welcome. 

[Bullneck 18987]

19 hours ago, fakebusiness said:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/immigrant-children-camp-texas-biden/2021/02/22/05dfd58c-7533-11eb-8115-9ad5e9c02117_story.html?utm_campaign=wp_main&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social

So, what do we think about this?

Fakebusiness, rest his soul, was already dead when I shot him.

[Bullneck 18987]

2 hours ago, DonkeyCigars said:

1000% agree with you here, and I think it’s a reasoned opinion and you can defend the value of the take as well as you can any takes that would oppose it.

But because it’s not a popular take you will be called vapid and stupid by some mediocre minds, so steel yourself 😂

OK, Anastasis

[Biff Tannen 45495]

17 minutes ago, Bullneck said:

OK, Anastasis

[burntorangebongos 10681]

2 hours ago, GW Hayduke said:

We need our Democratic representatives to be more responsible on twitter.  Has AOC clarified or retracted her tweet? 

I don't know about how politics works, but I imagine if I were a progressive, I'd want to keep poking at the establishment to keep them moving to improve this situation. I think that is what she is doing. She doesn't acknowledge that it was more humane than the administration before and that it is a temporary situation because she doesn't want the administration to get complacent on this. So she pokes and speaks up. Now hopefully, there is dialog behind the scenes and give and take between progressives and moderates and they end up moving down the road to better policy. 

Maybe I'm real naïve but I think that is what her poking tweet was all about....to keep the administration working on this clusterfuck to more humane policy and not playing it safe to shield themselves from negative republican talking points. 

 

[NWBuck 8547]

This seems worth noting 

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/immigration/lawyers-have-found-parents-105-separated-migrant-children-past-month-n1258791

 

[Sawbonz 27434]

5 hours ago, Willfully Horn said:

Release unaccompanied minors to family here in the US. (I assume this is happening). Allow these kids a path to citizenship.

Invest in the legal apparatus that determines the validity of asylum claims. Afford asylum seekers legal representation. Clear the backlog.

 

 

The best compromise on immigration policy IMO is to have a liberal permanent guest worker program that does not offer a path to citizenship. If you are not a felon and can find gainful employment come on over. If you want to be a citizen file the paperwork and get in line irrespective of your status as a guest worker. Current undocumented workers would get amnesty for the guest worker program but would go to the back of the line for citizenship. Minor children of undocumenteds or unaccompanied minors could take advantage of the guest worker program as well when they are 15 or so, and get in line for citizenship, but I would also offer them a 4 year shortcut to citizenship either through military or civil service. 

[Dahobbs 17447]

4 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

 

The best compromise on immigration policy IMO is to have a liberal permanent guest worker program that does not offer a path to citizenship. If you are not a felon and can find gainful employment come on over. If you want to be a citizen file the paperwork and get in line irrespective of your status as a guest worker. Current undocumented workers would get amnesty for the guest worker program but would go to the back of the line for citizenship. Minor children of undocumenteds or unaccompanied minors could take advantage of the guest worker program as well when they are 15 or so, and get in line for citizenship, but I would also offer them a 4 year shortcut to citizenship either through military or civil service. 

That's an ok compromise. But I don't understand why citizenship requires a waiting game. We use to sign people up by boatload. I don't see a compelling reason why we can't process more people. If you want to come here and be a citizen, great, here is your American flag pin and your social security card. Next! 

[Sawbonz 27434]

54 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

That's an ok compromise. But I don't understand why citizenship requires a waiting game. We use to sign people up by boatload. I don't see a compelling reason why we can't process more people. If you want to come here and be a citizen, great, here is your American flag pin and your social security card. Next! 

I’m no historian but I don’t know that it’s ever been that easy. And I don’t know that I want it to be that easy. 

[Willfully Horn 7913]

52 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

 

The best compromise on immigration policy IMO is to have a liberal permanent guest worker program that does not offer a path to citizenship. If you are not a felon and can find gainful employment come on over. If you want to be a citizen file the paperwork and get in line irrespective of your status as a guest worker. Current undocumented workers would get amnesty for the guest worker program but would go to the back of the line for citizenship. Minor children of undocumenteds or unaccompanied minors could take advantage of the guest worker program as well when they are 15 or so, and get in line for citizenship, but I would also offer them a 4 year shortcut to citizenship either through military or civil service. 

I respect these statements, as I think they derive from a ‘doctrine’ of fairness. I assume we both see these circumstances as distinct from asylum requests.

I also assume we might quibble about age, but see unaccompanied minors as a separate circumstance.

 

[Sawbonz 27434]

1 minute ago, Willfully Horn said:

I respect these statements, as I think they derive from a ‘doctrine’ of fairness. I assume we both see these circumstances as distinct from asylum requests.

I also assume we might quibble about age, but see unaccompanied minors as a separate circumstance.

 

As a Christian I think we have an absolute moral directive to care for asylum seekers (and I would argue unaccompanied minors are unequivocally refugees). I don’t think it is productive to push for automatic citizenship for this group if you are aiming for a broad base of support for new policy 

[Willfully Horn 7913]

Just now, Sawbonz said:

As a Christian I think we have an absolute moral directive to care for asylum seekers (and I would argue unaccompanied minors are unequivocally refugees). I don’t think it is productive to push for automatic citizenship for this group if you are aiming for a broad base of support for new policy 

I agree. A path for minors, and asylum for those so deserving.

[HenryJames 65890]

 

[Bullneck 18987]

^^^ It's been said many times but the level of self-interest and derangement in Trump's White House was off the scale.

[Sawbonz 27434]

Did that hobgoblin give a single interview during the time he was in government?

[Dahobbs 17447]

7 hours ago, Sawbonz said:

I’m no historian but I don’t know that it’s ever been that easy. And I don’t know that I want it to be that easy. 

I was exaggerating slightly. Maybe it shouldn't be quite that easy. But it shouldn't take years either. I think a month turn around time is pretty reasonable. Why turn people away if they want to be citizens? 

[fattyflattie 4636]

2 hours ago, HenryJames said:

 

@DonkeyCigars   This is an example of trolling.  (Stephen Miller not poster). 

[DonkeyCigars 144]

17 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

@DonkeyCigars   This is an example of trolling.  (Stephen Miller not poster). 

Indeed, makes sense.

As an aside, I'm dying this morning at UpperWestside and his sock's persistence to go back weeks and necro-neg every single post I've ever made. You're doing it UpperWestside, YOU'RE DOING IT!

Edited February 25, 2021 by DonkeyCigars

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

21 hours ago, fattyflattie said:

Well yeah he did fuck that part up. 
 

I expect people on the R to post and discuss when the Biden group doesn’t get it right (not necessarily this instance) and I expect the L to say “but Trump”.   That’s all I can see for an extended amount of time. 

It'll always but but but.....  

[ndawg 1242]

9 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

It'll always but but but.....  

Biden will receive a lot more criticism from the left than Trump did from the right. 😉

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

3 minutes ago, ndawg said:

Biden will receive a lot more criticism from the left than Trump did from the right. 😉

Not sure I can argue that point.

[Chuckie Finster 22600]

2 hours ago, Sawbonz said:

Did that hobgoblin give a single interview during the time he was in government?

I vividly remember the one with the fake hair, but I don't think he did too many after that.

[fattyflattie 4636]

37 minutes ago, ndawg said:

Biden will receive a lot more criticism from the left than Trump did from the right. 😉

I don’t know.  Is he going to almost single handedly destroy and set your party back 50 years?    Hell definitely receive more criticism than any Trumpkin would give trump for sure.  1000%.  1000000%

Edited February 25, 2021 by fattyflattie

[GW Hayduke 1952]

12 hours ago, burntorangebongos said:

I don't know about how politics works, but I imagine if I were a progressive, I'd want to keep poking at the establishment to keep them moving to improve this situation. I think that is what she is doing. She doesn't acknowledge that it was more humane than the administration before and that it is a temporary situation because she doesn't want the administration to get complacent on this. So she pokes and speaks up. Now hopefully, there is dialog behind the scenes and give and take between progressives and moderates and they end up moving down the road to better policy. 

Maybe I'm real naïve but I think that is what her poking tweet was all about....to keep the administration working on this clusterfuck to more humane policy and not playing it safe to shield themselves from negative republican talking points. 

 

We need more maturity from our elected Democratic representatives when their twitter team decides to "poke and speak up."  AOC should never be parroting the same talking points as Fox News, fakebusiness, and Steve Miller.  I get that folks want to find vague excuses for it but it shouldn't be acceptable.  

[wildcat09 29256]

11 hours ago, Sawbonz said:

 

The best compromise on immigration policy IMO is to have a liberal permanent guest worker program that does not offer a path to citizenship. If you are not a felon and can find gainful employment come on over. If you want to be a citizen file the paperwork and get in line irrespective of your status as a guest worker. Current undocumented workers would get amnesty for the guest worker program but would go to the back of the line for citizenship. Minor children of undocumenteds or unaccompanied minors could take advantage of the guest worker program as well when they are 15 or so, and get in line for citizenship, but I would also offer them a 4 year shortcut to citizenship either through military or civil service. 

I'm not sure I'd even call that a compromise, it's just the Chamber of Commerce position on immigration. 

[Wanker Bob 379]

On 2/24/2021 at 10:02 AM, burntorangebongos said:

This is an opportunity to come up with humane policy about unaccompanied minors. This is an opportunity to make the adult people who came here in desperation for a better life become productive members of our society, whether they are here temporarily or not. I don't know what all that entails but it is past time we come up with good policy. Migration due to climate change is inevitable and already happening. We need to fucking come up with realistic good policy for the betterment of ourselves. Obstructing and ignoring it isn't working. We are so stupid as a nation, it hurts. 

I feel the best solution is to identify which three or four fields of employment has the highest percentage of trump supporters. Then invest resources to train and educate these kids to do those jobs and once ready ship the Trump supporters out to the border of Russia and make them Putin's problem. 

Edited February 25, 2021 by Wanker Bob