Another White Guilt Post

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

I listen to too much NPR than is good for me and lately I've noticed a trend. If there is something terrible going on in the country, they invariably point out that "of course this disproportionately affects people of color," and then that's what we hear about. And they are forever dredging up monstrosities from the past for...not any great reason I can see. 

I think this is extremely misguided. Covid is not racist. Poor people of every hue are affected disproportionately, and while poverty rates are highest among people of color, they are not the only poor people in America.

Which is what NPR's reporting strongly suggests. POC=poverty. Nobody white is poor, and every person of color is somehow more susceptible to every social ill out there.

Which creates a problem in two ways -- I believe it causes compassion fatigue among some whites, who eventually wonder "Why can't these dang people of color get their shit together?" and resentment from poor whites who are always left out of this "conversation," as NPR would probably call it. 

NPR has bought in whole-hog to the idea that race is the sole determinant of social outcomes in this country and that class has nothing to do with it at all. It's a pernicious message and one that in the end only perpetuates racism and has created a whole industry of (mostly white) anti-racists who go around telling other white people they are all racists for the most gratuitous reasons.

This is ugly but true, but when LBJ declared war on poverty, often as not he used little Deliverance kids in the posters and ads. He didn't want to allow the racists to contain poverty to the "people of color" of his day, so he put a snot-nosed, broken-teeth, tow-headed face on the problem, and you know what? That is not all that inaccurate. There are millions of poor white kids out there.

This is the kind of idea that gets people killed in this country though. So long as MLK kept to "his people," he was tolerated. But then once he started in on uniting the poor of all races, that was all she wrote. That was also Fred Hampton's idea, and he arrived it at is much sooner than MLK did. Here's a song from that era in Chicago -- "Mighty mighty children, unite yourself in power, for black and white power's gonna be the tower..."

"It really don't make no difference, if you cut, you gonna bleed..."

Same goes for covid and a whole bunch of other shit. 

I am not saying police brutality is not more of an issue in the Black community or anything like that. What I am saying is that this well-meaning white liberal message that the only poor people are people of color and that they are always in need of assistance is counterproductive at best and downright racism-producing at worst. It perpetuates the idea that "people of color" are "the other" and always basket cases. No good can come from that at all. 

 

[TwiceHorn 31280]

I haven't noticed this.

However, since the pandemic, I drive less and thus listen to NPR less.

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

2 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

I haven't noticed this.

However, since the pandemic, I drive less and thus listen to NPR less.

It's one of those things...Once it's in your head, you see it everywhere. 

[Biff Tannen 45495]

3 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

I haven't noticed this.

However, since the pandemic, I drive less and thus listen to NPR less.

I haven't either, BUT I think OP makes a good point.  

[Surly Bevo 24696]

I would add that it also pisses off people of color as well, particularly those who have Slorched their way out of the stereotype.  Compassion and understanding is one thing, being patronized is quite another and I've talked to my fair share of POCs who don't much care for all of it at the level it is at.  

That all doesn't mean there isn't a very significant issue there but like so many other things the approach/messaging often sucks ass.  

[wildcat09 29256]

Stop listening to NPR.

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

2 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

I haven't either, BUT I think OP makes a good point.  

NOT while behind the wheel drinking game: tune into all three hours of All Things Considered/other national shows from 4-7 and drink every time someone says "disproportionately affects people of color." 

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

Just now, wildcat09 said:

Stop listening to NPR.

I am getting better at that. On the Media is about the only program of theirs I really like and I get that via podcast, anyway. 

[Biff Tannen 45495]

3 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Stop listening to NPR.

wat

[NWBuck 8547]

My guess (and only a guess) is that there's such a correlation between race and socioeconomic status (due, in part, to unresolved and disregarded elements of America's history) that it's easier (and lazier) to have conversations about race. And, while these are important and urgent, they are (as OP identifies) incomplete.

I'd also guess that, as impossible as it is for America to deal with the racism and white supremacy in our past in present, dealing with issues of class would be even more challenging as long as we worship at the altar of capitalism. In fact, many scholars believe that the construct of race was created in the American context as a way to distract from issues of class... Poor white people wouldn't rebel against the gentry and landowners if they believe that they were on the same people due to some manufactured "racial" identity.

As it's been said- MLK wasn't assassinated when he was only working for racial equality. It wasn't until he pushed into the idea of socioeconomic equity that transcends race when he finally lost his life. 

[gyroprotagonist 2591]

9 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

I listen to too much NPR than is good for me and lately I've noticed a trend. If there is something terrible going on in the country, they invariably point out that "of course this disproportionately affects people of color," and then that's what we hear about.

probably because it does.  I have noticed the same thing (although i drive much less too) with NPR, but they usually follow that up with stats that back up the claim.  I heard a piece on Pandemic jobless and they said that women were more likely to lose their job than men.  Then broke it down further and black women were most likely to have lost their job in the pandemic vs any other group.

I don't know the right balance that reporting should take, but i think they are trying to show that yes there are problems in the country and yes x race seems to have a harder time of it.  is it all borne out of racism?  is it more because of the types of employment black women were working at the time?  Are those two related?  dunno, probably some from each column.  

read this article today: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/24/us/smith-college-race.html     (may be paywall; i was reading on phone) and it starts off with a story we have seen before of white employee at college questions why black person is eating while black in this specific area.  But then goes on a little deeper and paints of picture of nobody really did anything wrong or racist, but black student still felt she was being profiled and harassed and may have falsely accused or amplified the circumstances.  There was a kids camp going on and they were trying to keep people out of that area.

anyway, i think it's fair to report on the stuff and it's fair to be fatigued about it. 

[Biff Tannen 45495]

11 minutes ago, NWBuck said:

In fact, many scholars believe that the construct of race was created in the American context as a way to distract from issues of class... Poor white people wouldn't rebel against the gentry and landowners if they believe that they were on the same people due to some manufactured "racial" identity.

This is how the modern GOP keeps the poor whites voting for them.

[tantric superman 4667]

38 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Stop listening to NPR.

Your blood pressure would be lowered if you just stop all news sources and start listening to Rachel Maddow.

Edited February 25, 2021 by tantric superman

[SimonBolivar 10931]

46 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

I listen to too much NPR than is good for me and lately I've noticed a trend. If there is something terrible going on in the country, they invariably point out that "of course this disproportionately affects people of color," and then that's what we hear about. And they are forever dredging up monstrosities from the past for...not any great reason I can see. 

I think this is extremely misguided. Covid is not racist. Poor people of every hue are affected disproportionately, and while poverty rates are highest among people of color, they are not the only poor people in America.

Which is what NPR's reporting strongly suggests. POC=poverty. Nobody white is poor, and every person of color is somehow more susceptible to every social ill out there.

Which creates a problem in two ways -- I believe it causes compassion fatigue among some whites, who eventually wonder "Why can't these dang people of color get their shit together?" and resentment from poor whites who are always left out of this "conversation," as NPR would probably call it. 

NPR has bought in whole-hog to the idea that race is the sole determinant of social outcomes in this country and that class has nothing to do with it at all. It's a pernicious message and one that in the end only perpetuates racism and has created a whole industry of (mostly white) anti-racists who go around telling other white people they are all racists for the most gratuitous reasons.

This is ugly but true, but when LBJ declared war on poverty, often as not he used little Deliverance kids in the posters and ads. He didn't want to allow the racists to contain poverty to the "people of color" of his day, so he put a snot-nosed, broken-teeth, tow-headed face on the problem, and you know what? That is not all that inaccurate. There are millions of poor white kids out there.

This is the kind of idea that gets people killed in this country though. So long as MLK kept to "his people," he was tolerated. But then once he started in on uniting the poor of all races, that was all she wrote. That was also Fred Hampton's idea, and he arrived it at is much sooner than MLK did. Here's a song from that era in Chicago -- "Mighty mighty children, unite yourself in power, for black and white power's gonna be the tower..."

"It really don't make no difference, if you cut, you gonna bleed..."

Same goes for covid and a whole bunch of other shit. 

I am not saying police brutality is not more of an issue in the Black community or anything like that. What I am saying is that this well-meaning white liberal message that the only poor people are people of color and that they are always in need of assistance is counterproductive at best and downright racism-producing at worst. It perpetuates the idea that "people of color" are "the other" and always basket cases. No good can come from that at all. 

 

 

 

35 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Stop listening to NPR.

Boo

[tantric superman 4667]

 

38 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Stop listening to NPR.

You know, one day, Judy Woodruff will be dead, and you'll say, "Oh, yes, I've been listening to her work for years."

Edited February 25, 2021 by tantric superman

[Mole 4320]

Any station that plays Toot Suite regularly is alright by me. Pre-pandemic, their Saturday programming was always a good, fun listen. It doesn’t really translate to the remote world. Weekday NPR is incessant in its NPRness and that can be a beating after a while.

Some issues are race issues; some are poverty issues; some are both. Healthcare and the pandemic might be both.

On the other hand, portraying these issues as purely Black issues creates a space where the majority population can pretend that it isn’t their problem. 

[tantric superman 4667]

Ultimately, all I really want of my fellow citizens is to listen to the news critically (OP, you KNOW what they mean when they say COVID disproportionately affects people of color, so even though you sorted it out in your post, just assume other people know what it means and they aren't tying themselves in knots over it) AND to have some  empathy.

I don't care if you don't think certain policies (reparations) make sense.  I care if you waste time arguing against or whining about what everyone knows - that in general people of color have had more disadvantages than whites in this country and that this fact explains lots of shit.

 

[horn4life 3755]

Most of my attitude is that poor folks of all colors need help.  Do things like years of voter suppression, and denial of basic rights that white folks take for granted real? Well, yes. Or what good are 40 acres and a mule when you are driven from the land?  MOST wealth is accumulated over generations.  Some folks go out and kick ass all on their own, but most folks get some pretty strong helping hands.  Some of the things I have heard some of my friends say about, well "why don't they just borrow some money from..." Because a lot of poor people don't know anyone to borrow money from.  They have no mobility and on and on an on.

As a guy from an upper middle class white area in West Houston probably the only reason I have such perspective was selling newspapers door to door in Houston.  I saw people live in situations that quite frankly my upbringing did not allow me to really imagine.  I could imagine it in a third world country, but not right off loop 610.

NPR has a liberal lean that is for certain.  But they also consistently present factual information. LIsten to some of the conservative lie machines and you will pine for NPR... if you have a fucking brain and actually know some of the facts.  

So your choices are liberal drivel, or conservative lies... take your pick! 😉

 

[TwiceHorn 31280]

1 hour ago, NWBuck said:

In fact, many scholars believe that the construct of race was created in the American context as a way to distract from issues of class... Poor white people wouldn't rebel against the gentry and landowners if they believe that they were on the same people due to some manufactured "racial" identity.

I dunno.  I think our particular "brand" of slavery, in the midst of the country (as opposed to distant colonies), and emancipation resulting in millions of black former slaves living in the midst of their former owners and others committed to the immoral notion of slavery is a pretty complete explanation of "the racial construct in America."

Now maybe some sort of construct played a role in the persistence of Jim Crow and resistance to civil rights, but Occam's Razor tends to indicate otherwise.

[27-25 2040]

1 hour ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

...snot-nosed, broken-teeth, tow-headed face...

You misspelled Oklahoman.

[David Dennison 18658]

The legacy of African slavery is the biggest issue this country faces and nothing else comes close. 

[SydneyCarton 47884]

I listen to NPR every day. And I recognize what you're saying. But it doesn't bother me because I simply take it as a reminder that larger segments of minorities as opposed to white people are disadvantaged. And that's a fucking fact. I don't read it as "only POC are poor." I hear that and am reminded that more POC need help to get into better situations in life. More POC live on top of one another in smaller domiciles. More POC ride busses to get to jobs. More POC need help. Again, these are just facts. 

[bad_teammate 13132]

NPR's audience doesn't want to hear about class solidarity.

[SydneyCarton 47884]

2 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

The legacy of African slavery is the biggest issue this country faces and nothing else comes close. 

Eh, I'm pretty sure that the biggest issue this country faces is the systemic and widespread attacks on Democracy currently taking place, the outcome of which might preclude anyone in this country from being able to even tackle how to remedy the legacy of slavery. 

[David Dennison 18658]

Just now, SydneyCarton said:

Eh, I'm pretty sure that the biggest issue this country faces is the systemic and widespread attacks on Democracy currently taking place, the outcome of which might preclude anyone in this country from being able to even tackle how to remedy the legacy of slavery. 

Why do you think there is an attack on democracy at the moment?

Hint: it has to do with race.

 

[DonkeyCigars 144]

Just now, bad_teammate said:

NPR's audience doesn't want to hear about class solidarity.

Probably because people who ride the subways have a different smell. like when you boil a rag or an old radish, I've heard it described.

[David Dennison 18658]

2 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

NPR's audience doesn't want to hear about class solidarity.

"If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you."

[SydneyCarton 47884]

1 minute ago, David Dennison said:

Why do you think there is an attack on democracy at the moment?

Hint: it has to do with race.

 

No. It has to do with power. Race and Religion and Values are just excuses to grab it. 

[David Dennison 18658]

Just now, SydneyCarton said:

No. It has to do with power. Race and Religion and Values are just excuses to grab it. 

Yeah. Wypipo who are a threat to American democracy don't want non-wypipo, specifically black people, to have power. 

[SydneyCarton 47884]

Just now, David Dennison said:

Yeah. Wypipo who are a threat to American democracy don't want non-wypipo, specifically black people, to have power. 

I disagree. You see the grab for power to be specifically related to race. I see the grab for power to be about the power. The fact they may not like people of color would be a bonus. If there weren't minorities, we'd just be back to Catholics versus Protestants in Ireland. Or the Kurds being attacked in the middle east. It's always going to be something, even among people that look alike. You're Different From Me for _______________ and I don't want you to have power over me. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

21 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

The legacy of African slavery is the biggest issue this country faces and nothing else comes close. 

I would say white patriarchal “Christian” supremacy is the biggest issue.

If I had to boil down the ethos of the contemporary conservative movement it would go something like this:

“America is a white man’s “Christian” nation and should remain a white man’s “Christian” nation at all costs.  Truth, democracy, and peace are expendable as long as their sacrifice is in the name of preserving the white man’s “Christian” America.”

All the weird behavior coming from the right can be explained when you view it through this paradigm.  It doesn’t matter how much Trump lies or how batshit Qanon is b/c they are perceived as efforts to preserve the white man’s “Christian” society and therefore are tolerated. 

Bad faith outrage over gun laws, abortion, immigration, socialism, Muslims, welfare are all in the name of preserving the perceived white man’s privilege.

This reckoning has plagued this country since inception and prevented our society from reaching its full potential. 

Edited February 25, 2021 by Hugo Stiglitz

[David Dennison 18658]

1 minute ago, SydneyCarton said:

I disagree. You see the grab for power to be specifically related to race. I see the grab for power to be about the power. The fact they may not like people of color would be a bonus. If there weren't minorities, we'd just be back to Catholics versus Protestants in Ireland. Or the Kurds being attacked in the middle east. It's always going to be something, even among people that look alike. You're Different From Me for _______________ and I don't want you to have power over me. 

But here, it's about black and white race relations. It always has been. This is a nation founded on the notion of white supremacy, and white supremacy is still the norm. 

[Judge Roybeanbag 11810]

3 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

I disagree. You see the grab for power to be specifically related to race. I see the grab for power to be about the power. The fact they may not like people of color would be a bonus. If there weren't minorities, we'd just be back to Catholics versus Protestants in Ireland. Or the Kurds being attacked in the middle east. It's always going to be something, even among people that look alike. You're Different From Me for _______________ and I don't want you to have power over me. 

You're mostly correct, but that doesn't make the disenfranchised people any less angry.  My white grandmother couldn't vote until 1920, and couldn't serve on a fucking jury until 1955, here in Texas.  She harbored a little resentment about that.  I don't blame her.  I can't imagine if she had been black how pissed off she would have been.

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

1 hour ago, NWBuck said:

 

I'd also guess that, as impossible as it is for America to deal with the racism and white supremacy in our past in present, dealing with issues of class would be even more challenging as long as we worship at the altar of capitalism. In fact, many scholars believe that the construct of race was created in the American context as a way to distract from issues of class... Poor white people wouldn't rebel against the gentry and landowners if they believe that they were on the same people due to some manufactured "racial" identity.

 

This is true -- Bacon's Rebellion was launched by a coalition of freed indentured servants both Black and White who joined forces and pretty much chased the Virginia colonial gov't back to London. Those freed servants were not yet separated by law or class and were intermarrying and proven quite troublesome as a result. One day the Tidewater Swells were forced to realize they were greatly outnumbered when the multiracial mob descended on Jamestown with muskets and pitchforks. 

In Barbados, there had been a similar uprising amongst Irish and African freed slaves and servants, and it was there that they codified the racist laws that were to become the law of the land here. If you scratch at South Carolina's history, underneath the skin it's more a colony of Barbados than Britain, so many Barbadians settled there in the early days with their slaves, and their laws. 

Which is not to say they invented racism. @RDCanecutter is privy to those charts the Spaniards and Portuguese used to have, but those, with seemingly endless variations on who could be called what by their variatons of Black, White and Indigenous blood, were the furthest thing ever from the "one drop" rule we've had here. They seemed to be attempting to set up a very complicated caste system whereas the one here was literally Black and White, although with secret gradations of class within both. (Yes, there was a class system among the slaves, too.) 

 

[SydneyCarton 47884]

5 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

But here, it's about black and white race relations. It always has been. This is a nation founded on the notion of white supremacy, and white supremacy is still the norm. 

Listen dude, the nation wasn't founded on the idea of White fucking Supremacy. The Mayflower didn't land on these shores because folks needed a place to subjugate blacks, and the topic of 1776 wasn't "Man, we really need to break from England because they want us to treat Black People equally." It was fucking taxation without representation. I'll even go so far to say it was greed. But lets not pretend the nation was fucking founded on white supremacy. If it was, then there would have been a fucking unanimous agreement on it, we wouldn't have an electoral college, and there wouldn't have been a civil fucking war. Just stop right there. 

[SydneyCarton 47884]

7 minutes ago, Judge Roybeanbag said:

You're mostly correct, but that doesn't make the disenfranchised people any less angry.  My white grandmother couldn't vote until 1920, and couldn't serve on a fucking jury until 1955, here in Texas.  She harbored a little resentment about that.  I don't blame her.  I can't imagine if she had been black how pissed off she would have been.

100% agree. I'm simply trying to frame what I see appropriately. The disenfranchised should be fucking angry. Im angry for them and I've never had to walk a foot in their shoes, much less a mile. 

[ChickenSandwich 9798]

2 hours ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

I listen to too much NPR than is good for me and lately I've noticed a trend. If there is something terrible going on in the country, they invariably point out that "of course this disproportionately affects people of color," and then that's what we hear about. And they are forever dredging up monstrosities from the past for...not any great reason I can see. 

I think this is extremely misguided. Covid is not racist. Poor people of every hue are affected disproportionately, and while poverty rates are highest among people of color, they are not the only poor people in America.

Which is what NPR's reporting strongly suggests. POC=poverty. Nobody white is poor, and every person of color is somehow more susceptible to every social ill out there.

Which creates a problem in two ways -- I believe it causes compassion fatigue among some whites, who eventually wonder "Why can't these dang people of color get their shit together?" and resentment from poor whites who are always left out of this "conversation," as NPR would probably call it. 

NPR has bought in whole-hog to the idea that race is the sole determinant of social outcomes in this country and that class has nothing to do with it at all. It's a pernicious message and one that in the end only perpetuates racism and has created a whole industry of (mostly white) anti-racists who go around telling other white people they are all racists for the most gratuitous reasons.

This is ugly but true, but when LBJ declared war on poverty, often as not he used little Deliverance kids in the posters and ads. He didn't want to allow the racists to contain poverty to the "people of color" of his day, so he put a snot-nosed, broken-teeth, tow-headed face on the problem, and you know what? That is not all that inaccurate. There are millions of poor white kids out there.

This is the kind of idea that gets people killed in this country though. So long as MLK kept to "his people," he was tolerated. But then once he started in on uniting the poor of all races, that was all she wrote. That was also Fred Hampton's idea, and he arrived it at is much sooner than MLK did. Here's a song from that era in Chicago -- "Mighty mighty children, unite yourself in power, for black and white power's gonna be the tower..."

"It really don't make no difference, if you cut, you gonna bleed..."

Same goes for covid and a whole bunch of other shit. 

I am not saying police brutality is not more of an issue in the Black community or anything like that. What I am saying is that this well-meaning white liberal message that the only poor people are people of color and that they are always in need of assistance is counterproductive at best and downright racism-producing at worst. It perpetuates the idea that "people of color" are "the other" and always basket cases. No good can come from that at all. 

 

Glenn Loury gave a great speech recently that touches on this somewhat. Should be required reading. 
 

https://quillette.com/2021/02/10/unspeakable-truths-about-racial-inequality-in-america/

 

This is the text of a lecture delivered by the author as part of the Benson Center Lecture Series at the University of Colorado, Boulder, on February 8th, 2021.

I am a black American intellectual living in an age of persistent racial inequality in my country. As a black man I feel compelled to represent the interests of “my people.” (But that reference is not unambiguous!) As an intellectual, I feel that I must seek out the truth and speak such truths as I am given to know. As an American, at this critical moment of “racial reckoning,” I feel that imperative all the more urgently. But, I ask, what are my responsibilities? Do they conflict with one another? I will explore this question tonight.

My conclusion: “My responsibilities as a black man, as an American, and as an intellectual are not in conflict.” I defend this position as best I can in what follows. I also try to illustrate the threat “cancel culture” poses to a rational discourse about racial inequality in America that our country now so desperately requires. Finally, I will try to model how an intellectual who truly loves “his people” should respond. I will do this by enunciating out loud what have increasingly become some unspeakable truths. So, brace yourselves!

Edited February 25, 2021 by ChickenSandwich

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

16 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

I disagree. You see the grab for power to be specifically related to race. I see the grab for power to be about the power. The fact they may not like people of color would be a bonus. If there weren't minorities, we'd just be back to Catholics versus Protestants in Ireland. Or the Kurds being attacked in the middle east. It's always going to be something, even among people that look alike. You're Different From Me for _______________ and I don't want you to have power over me. 

I was married to a working class Brit, and once she got to America and got her degree and rose up in the world, she finds going back to England unbearable. Those fucking snots start trying to put her back in her place before we even got on flights to Manchester. Correcting her grammar in the departure lounge and so on. I've seen it happen and now she just will not tolerate it. She hasn't been back to England in ten years. 

Once you pick up on British notions of class, you see it everywhere. It's in most of their films and TV shows, subtly in some, blatantly obvious in others. Like Downton Abbey...Blackadder is another. You have Blackadder as the sensible middle class surrounded by morons below and on top. 

And I worked over there for awhile in shit jobs. Class was far more important than race, and then there were weird geographical prejudices, like, I worked in Lancashire. And whenever shit would go sideways on that job the scapegoat was not the Black guy, or the Pakistani, or even the dude from Liverpool (that whole city is regarded as a hive of scum and villainy by outsiders and even natives), but Archie, the dude from Yorkshire. Because: Wars of the Roses, 700 years ago. Lancashire lost and hasn't forgotten. 

Edited February 25, 2021 by MaybeACoordinator

[David Dennison 18658]

2 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

Listen dude, the nation wasn't founded on the idea of White fucking Supremacy. The Mayflower didn't land on these shores because folks needed a place to subjugate blacks, and the topic of 1776 wasn't "Man, we really need to break from England because they want us to treat Black People equally." It was fucking taxation without representation. I'll even go so far to say it was greed. But lets not pretend the nation was fucking founded on white supremacy. If it was, then there would have been a fucking unanimous agreement on it, we wouldn't have an electoral college, and there wouldn't have been a civil fucking war. Just stop right there. 

It absolutely was. No one except white men were included in the experiment. That was by design.

[Captainant 27463]

1 minute ago, David Dennison said:

It absolutely was. No one except white men were included in the experiment. That was by design.

+1 lmao, many of the framers of the constitution were slave owners. IE: whites holding supremacy over blacks.

[ChickenSandwich 9798]

1 hour ago, gyroprotagonist said:

probably because it does.  I have noticed the same thing (although i drive much less too) with NPR, but they usually follow that up with stats that back up the claim.  I heard a piece on Pandemic jobless and they said that women were more likely to lose their job than men.  Then broke it down further and black women were most likely to have lost their job in the pandemic vs any other group.

I don't know the right balance that reporting should take, but i think they are trying to show that yes there are problems in the country and yes x race seems to have a harder time of it.  is it all borne out of racism?  is it more because of the types of employment black women were working at the time?  Are those two related?  dunno, probably some from each column.  

read this article today: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/24/us/smith-college-race.html     (may be paywall; i was reading on phone) and it starts off with a story we have seen before of white employee at college questions why black person is eating while black in this specific area.  But then goes on a little deeper and paints of picture of nobody really did anything wrong or racist, but black student still felt she was being profiled and harassed and may have falsely accused or amplified the circumstances.  There was a kids camp going on and they were trying to keep people out of that area.

anyway, i think it's fair to report on the stuff and it's fair to be fatigued about it. 

It is also true that this sort of victim hood has become social currency.  15 mins of fame if you will  

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9297475/Black-student-not-victim-racism-eating-black-80k-Smith-College.html

Student was not victim of racism for 'eating while black' at $80k Smith College and made up details that ruined the lives of four campus workers and led to controversial anti-bias training that employee resigned over 

[RDCanecutter 26276]

11 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

@RDCanecutter is privy to those charts the Spaniards and Portuguese used to have, but those, with seemingly endless variations on who could be called what by their variatons of Black, White and Indigenous blood, were the furthest thing ever from the "one drop" rule we've had here. 

 

De Aggy y Baylora nace Qtarda.

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

1 minute ago, RDCanecutter said:

De Aggy y Baylora nace Qtarda.

Y si es Bayloro y aggy nace que? 

[RDCanecutter 26276]

Just now, MaybeACoordinator said:

Y si es Bayloro y aggy nace que? 

Qtardos all the way down.

[SydneyCarton 47884]

6 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

It absolutely was. No one except white men were included in the experiment. That was by design.

This...can't be serious. You're suggesting that because there weren't a ton of autonomous black folks in England, an overwhelmingly white nation, who decided to emigrate to the Colonies (which initially was about religious freedom), therefore the whole thing was just racist. That's like saying Jewish people where inherently racist because when Moses parted the Red Sea it didn't have any Japanese folks. Because everyone knows they were just lying around Egypt.

[RomaVicta 29792]

That's a brave post, Maybe A Coordinator. It would be easy for some people to dismiss your broader observation to lift out phrasing that could be made to sound offensive.

NPR has been really hard to listen to for years now. There is very little skillful investigation or amusing analysis. Their stories seem to come from a template now.

Something happens. Send a reporter with a drippingly sorrowful and sympathy soaked delivery to the area. Pick out an individual to give this particular something a human face so the earnest audience can feel their pain.

Start with a sound. Grind, grind, grind. Marisol is grinding corn for her family. They don't have electicity because of the something. With five kids and no power, it can be hard. Marisol's voice: I get the corn and pork from friends who have power and freezers. It's hard, but we're really luckier than others.

Then a lot of earnest, sad talk about this individual ending with, For now, there is corn and pork to last the week. After that, no one knows...Here's Marisol, "We pray every day. We're getting tired of tamales." Tired of tamales. But...tamales...are all they have...

I'd like a little actual news mixed in. They're approach to news actually makes all the events generic because all of the interviews sound the same.

So, I think they're definitely into explaining and presenting victimology. They've become like actors, and talking to Marisol is a really juicy role with lots of fake emoting.

Oh yea, if there's a school shooting they talk as though I might leap out of my moving car if they don't sooth me.

It makes me angry and sad because All Things Considered was once a great couple of hours of radio. Now it's only good if if you're in the car and want to hear an impeachment or some other live event.

Rant over.

[SydneyCarton 47884]

9 minutes ago, Captainant said:

+1 lmao, many of the framers of the constitution were slave owners. IE: whites holding supremacy over blacks.

You're sort of missing the point. You're suggesting that because SOME owned slaves, even MANY owned slaves. the sole purpose they founded America and went to war with Britain was because they had to have power over black people. I'm saying that not only isn't the case, it's absurd. But you two clowns do you. 

[Celery Man 20886]

Do we.... know that covid doesn't affect POC more severely than wypipo on average? I don't mean in terms of "poor people get it", I mean with all other things equal black people who get it tend to fare less well than white people who get it.

 

Did anyone else have Guridy for anything at UT? I was just unpacking books and looking at the ones I have from his Afro-Latin America course, and the discussion of the racial framework of America vs other places is taking me back. One of the stories that always stuck out to me from some of the reading was an Afro-latin baseball player who learned that in America he needed to speak Spanish or else he would be black.

[David Dennison 18658]

2 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

This...can't be serious. You're suggesting that because there weren't a ton of autonomous black folks in England, an overwhelmingly white nation, who decided to emigrate to the Colonies (which initially was about religious freedom), therefore the whole thing was just racist. That's like saying Jewish people where inherently racist because when Moses parted the Red Sea it didn't have any Japanese folks. Because everyone knows they were just lying around Egypt.

I'm not suggesting anything. Black folks were excluded from the American Experiment from the beginning. This was a nation whose fledgling government was limited to white, male landowners because the Founding Fathers believed that white, male landowners were superior to all others. That's white supremacy.

[RomaVicta 29792]

16 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

Listen dude, the nation wasn't founded on the idea of White fucking Supremacy. The Mayflower didn't land on these shores because folks needed a place to subjugate blacks, and the topic of 1776 wasn't "Man, we really need to break from England because they want us to treat Black People equally." It was fucking taxation without representation. I'll even go so far to say it was greed. But lets not pretend the nation was fucking founded on white supremacy. If it was, then there would have been a fucking unanimous agreement on it, we wouldn't have an electoral college, and there wouldn't have been a civil fucking war. Just stop right there. 

Respectfully, White Supremacy was well in place in the New World more than a hundred years prior to the creation of the US. Blacks had a higher survival rate for some of the diseases here and they largely built the infrastructure that settlers finally started using when they survived in enough numbers.

At least, that's what I recall from reading 1493, a great book and companion to 1491. 

A book I read in a UT history course, The White Man's Burden, explained that part of the reason whites had to dismiss black slaves as animals was to justify the horrors of slave life. If you humanized a person that you enslaved and treated as such, you'd be eaten up with guilt. Dehumanizing blacks was a neat trick to get around that and make some money.

These opinions and observations may be out of date, but I find them convincing.