OU Recruiting 2023: Blowing and Going

[Duane Moore 5237]

5 hours ago, LTtxfan said:

Sometimes good things happen on Saturdays

 

Thx for this @Longboard Horn

Do we have any purple alt-uniforms we can bust out this weekend? 

[AP101S 1480]

"More open than Will Smith's marriage"

 

[TommyGufano 6021]

Good luck telling recruits you aren't going to honor their commitment if they visit elsewhere after the last 3 weeks, BV

[crash_davis 23100]

45 minutes ago, TommyGufano said:

Good luck telling recruits you aren't going to honor their commitment if they visit elsewhere after the last 3 weeks, BV

David Hicks??????????

[TommyGufano 6021]

1 minute ago, crash_davis said:

David Hicks??????????

Not entirely sure how the kid committed to tamu relates to what i posted, but sure why not

[TexEx15 17509]

 

[crash_davis 23100]

1 minute ago, TommyGufano said:

Not entirely sure how the kid committed to tamu relates to what i posted, but sure why not

Didn't realized that he had committed to aggy? My bad.

[Fud 9551]

Bill Connelly on OU

Spoiler

What on earth has happened to Oklahoma?

Texas 49, Oklahoma 0

It's difficult to underachieve against the spread for a particular period of time because the books adjust. If a team is worse than expected, the bar will keep being lowered until equilibrium is found.

Sometimes, however, a collapse comes so swiftly that it takes a while to find equilibrium. Sometimes you pull a John Mackovic. Or a Turner Gill.

Which brings us to Oklahoma.

Largest underachievement vs. the spread in a three-game span for a once-ranked team, last 30 years:

1. 1997 Texas (-110.5 points)

2. 2011 Texas Tech (-107.5)

3. 1999 UCLA (-101.5)

4. 2005 Colorado (-99.5)

5. 2022 Oklahoma (-98)

Having posted SP+ projections against the lines for about a decade now, I can confidently say that the books are smarter than they've ever been. The lines are extraordinarily hard to beat in volume, even compared to just a few years ago. And they have not been able to keep up with the velocity of Oklahoma's collapse.

Just three weeks ago, Brent Venables' first Sooners team was 3-0 and coming off of a rousing rivalry win at Nebraska. Favored by 10.5 points, the Sooners had won by a 49-14 margin, and they were 13.5-point home favorites against a Kansas State team that had just lost to Tulane.

• Sept. 24: Kansas State (+13.5) 41, Oklahoma 34

• Oct. 1: TCU (+5) 55, Oklahoma 24

• Oct. 8: Texas (-7.5) 49, Oklahoma 0

Expected scoring margin for Oklahoma in these games: plus-11. Actual scoring margin: minus-87.

EDITOR'S PICKS

• 

  Alabama, Georgia, Tennessee show why college football still runs through the SEC

  1dDavid M. Hale
• 

  Bowl projections: How high do UCLA, TCU and Tennessee climb?

  17hKyle Bonagura and Mark Schlabach
• 

  A historic loss: Numbers behind Texas' rout of OU

  2dJeremy Willis

We can tell how uniquely bad this stretch has been from the company OU is currently keeping. In the past three decades, only four once-ranked teams have underachieved by more over a three-game span. Two of them fired their coaches (1997 Texas, 2005 Colorado), and the other two probably should have. Bob Toledo survived a 4-7 collapse at UCLA in 1999 because he was coming off back-to-back top-10 finishes. But he went just 20-15 over the next three seasons and was fired. Tommy Tuberville and Texas Tech, meanwhile, pulled the same act the following season: The Red Raiders started 6-1, then lost four of five before Tuberville left for Cincinnati.

In all four of these instances, the coaches had been in their jobs for a while, and the sudden collapses were signs of an ending, either soon or on the horizon.

If we focus specifically on teams that collapse in their head coach's first seasons, things get much, much darker.

Largest underachievement vs. the spread in a three-game span for a first-year coach, past 30 years:

1. Turner Gill, 2010 Kansas (-109)

2. Brian Knorr, 2001 Ohio (-101.5)

3. Vic Koenning, 2000 Wyoming (-98.5)

4. Brent Venables, 2022 Oklahoma (-98)

5. Paul Wulff, 2008 Washington State (-94.5)

6. Ron Dickerson, 1993 Temple (-91)

The five names surrounding Venables' are five of the least successful hires college football has seen in that time span. Those coaches went a combined 38-170 -- the equivalent of 2-10 seasons ad infinitum. None won more than four games in a season.

Granted, none of these men were coaching Oklahoma, either. Those five poor individuals were taking on some of the hardest jobs in the country, and while they performed terribly, the floor in Norman -- where the Sooners have finished under .500 just five times since World War II -- is quite a bit higher.

Still, inclusion on these lists should ring serious alarm bells. There are really no examples of a team collapsing like this and recovering in a short amount of time. If OU is to become the first, the three main sources of collapse must rebound immediately.

1. Quarterback play. This one will be the easiest to fix, if only because Dillon Gabriel is expected back soon. The UCF transfer was still in the concussion protocol and wasn't cleared to play against Texas, and wow, have his replacements proven unready.

In 34 pass attempts since Gabriel was injured against TCU, Davis Beville has gained just 55 net yards -- 88 gained from 13-for-28 passing, minus 33 yards from six sacks -- and thrown an interception. Adjusted Net Yards per Attempt (ANY/A) is a per-attempt average that accounts for sacks and applies 20-yard bonuses for touchdowns and 45-yard penalties for interceptions; Gabriel is averaging 9.9 ANY/A, Beville 0.3. A decent case could be made that OU's offense was at its best Saturday when tight end Brayden Willis was behind center as a Wildcat QB.

Oklahoma fans have been clamoring for an appearance from either third-stringer General Booty -- a favorite of the college football internet world for very obvious reasons -- or blue-chip freshman Nick Evers, who threw a single incompletion against Texas. The fact that Venables and offensive coordinator Jeff Lebby determined Beville was their best option, however, doesn't suggest a particularly high ceiling for an alternate move.

Again, Gabriel should return soon, potentially against Kansas this coming weekend. He's 23rd in Total QBR, and even if that's not quite the standard Baker Mayfield, et al. set in Norman, it's good.

2. Run defense. Over the past three weeks, OU has allowed 7.2 yards per carry (dead last in FBS at 131st) and a 53% success rate (126th). Worse, it has been beaten by three different types of run games. Kansas State's zone-read game produced 100-yard performances for both quarterback Adrian Martinez (148 yards and four scores) and back Deuce Vaughn (116 yards). TCU offered more spread and speed, and four Horned Frogs backs combined for 242 yards (8.3 per carry) while quarterback Max Duggan ripped off a 67-yard sprint for good measure. Texas offered no run threat whatsoever from the quarterback position, but Longhorns backs, led by Bijan Robinson, still had 279 yards (5.8 per carry).

Mind you, the pass defense hasn't covered itself in glory, either. But opponents have been able to pass only when they want to because the run is always there.

3. Defensive disruption. It vanished overnight. The Sooners recorded 13 sacks among 32 tackles for loss in their first three games; in their past three games: one and 12, respectively. Linemen Reggie Grimes II, Ethan Downs, Jalen Redmond, Isaiah Coe and Jonah Laulu had 16.5 TFLs in the first three games, and have four since. There is no push against the run, and with opponents never behind schedule, pass-rushing opportunities have vanished as well. The Sooners have been average on third-and-long (33% conversion rate, 79th in FBS) but an absolute sieve in shorter distances (77% conversion rate on third-and-6 or less, 125th).

Disruption was the one thing former defensive coordinator Alex Grinch was guaranteed to create, albeit at the cost of allowing lots of big plays. OU is now giving up as many big plays as it ever has, but with no havoc in return. While plenty of first-year coaches leaned heavily on the portal to prop up weak units, Venables brought in six defensive transfers, four from Group of 5 schools, and none have made significant contributions. One, linebacker T.D. Roof, is missing the season with injury, which has contributed to some massive issues in linebacker depth. If it seems like there are no linebackers on the field when opposing running backs are cutting untouched into the second level of the defense, that is more correct than it should be.

History suggests it's a long road back to respectability for the Sooners. (That has to be the first time I've ever typed that sentence.) 

 

[NoName 16351]

is this bad? from Bill C's week 6 takeaways. not sure where to drop it but happy to do it here.

any time you are on a list with these guys it isn't good:

Text

Quote

 

What on earth has happened to Oklahoma?

Texas 49, Oklahoma 0

It's difficult to underachieve against the spread for a particular period of time because the books adjust. If a team is worse than expected, the bar will keep being lowered until equilibrium is found.

Sometimes, however, a collapse comes so swiftly that it takes a while to find equilibrium. Sometimes you pull a John Mackovic. Or a Turner Gill.

Which brings us to Oklahoma.

Largest underachievement vs. the spread in a three-game span for a once-ranked team, last 30 years:

1. 1997 Texas (-110.5 points)

2. 2011 Texas Tech (-107.5)

3. 1999 UCLA (-101.5)

4. 2005 Colorado (-99.5)

5. 2022 Oklahoma (-98)

Having posted SP+ projections against the lines for about a decade now, I can confidently say that the books are smarter than they've ever been. The lines are extraordinarily hard to beat in volume, even compared to just a few years ago. And they have not been able to keep up with the velocity of Oklahoma's collapse.

Just three weeks ago, Brent Venables' first Sooners team was 3-0 and coming off of a rousing rivalry win at Nebraska. Favored by 10.5 points, the Sooners had won by a 49-14 margin, and they were 13.5-point home favorites against a Kansas State team that had just lost to Tulane.

• Sept. 24: Kansas State (+13.5) 41, Oklahoma 34

• Oct. 1: TCU (+5) 55, Oklahoma 24

• Oct. 8: Texas (-7.5) 49, Oklahoma 0

Expected scoring margin for Oklahoma in these games: plus-11. Actual scoring margin: minus-87.

We can tell how uniquely bad this stretch has been from the company OU is currently keeping. In the past three decades, only four once-ranked teams have underachieved by more over a three-game span. Two of them fired their coaches (1997 Texas, 2005 Colorado), and the other two probably should have. Bob Toledo survived a 4-7 collapse at UCLA in 1999 because he was coming off back-to-back top-10 finishes. But he went just 20-15 over the next three seasons and was fired. Tommy Tuberville and Texas Tech, meanwhile, pulled the same act the following season: The Red Raiders started 6-1, then lost four of five before Tuberville left for Cincinnati.

In all four of these instances, the coaches had been in their jobs for a while, and the sudden collapses were signs of an ending, either soon or on the horizon.

If we focus specifically on teams that collapse in their head coach's first seasons, things get much, much darker.

Largest underachievement vs. the spread in a three-game span for a first-year coach, past 30 years:

1. Turner Gill, 2010 Kansas (-109)

2. Brian Knorr, 2001 Ohio (-101.5)

3. Vic Koenning, 2000 Wyoming (-98.5)

4. Brent Venables, 2022 Oklahoma (-98)

5. Paul Wulff, 2008 Washington State (-94.5)

6. Ron Dickerson, 1993 Temple (-91)

The five names surrounding Venables' are five of the least successful hires college football has seen in that time span. Those coaches went a combined 38-170 -- the equivalent of 2-10 seasons ad infinitum. None won more than four games in a season.

Granted, none of these men were coaching Oklahoma, either. Those five poor individuals were taking on some of the hardest jobs in the country, and while they performed terribly, the floor in Norman -- where the Sooners have finished under .500 just five times since World War II -- is quite a bit higher.

Still, inclusion on these lists should ring serious alarm bells. There are really no examples of a team collapsing like this and recovering in a short amount of time. If OU is to become the first, the three main sources of collapse must rebound immediately.

1. Quarterback play. This one will be the easiest to fix, if only because Dillon Gabriel is expected back soon. The UCF transfer was still in the concussion protocol and wasn't cleared to play against Texas, and wow, have his replacements proven unready.

In 34 pass attempts since Gabriel was injured against TCU, Davis Beville has gained just 55 net yards -- 88 gained from 13-for-28 passing, minus 33 yards from six sacks -- and thrown an interception. Adjusted Net Yards per Attempt (ANY/A) is a per-attempt average that accounts for sacks and applies 20-yard bonuses for touchdowns and 45-yard penalties for interceptions; Gabriel is averaging 9.9 ANY/A, Beville 0.3. A decent case could be made that OU's offense was at its best Saturday when tight end Brayden Willis was behind center as a Wildcat QB.

Oklahoma fans have been clamoring for an appearance from either third-stringer General Booty -- a favorite of the college football internet world for very obvious reasons -- or blue-chip freshman Nick Evers, who threw a single incompletion against Texas. The fact that Venables and offensive coordinator Jeff Lebby determined Beville was their best option, however, doesn't suggest a particularly high ceiling for an alternate move.

Again, Gabriel should return soon, potentially against Kansas this coming weekend. He's 23rd in Total QBR, and even if that's not quite the standard Baker Mayfield, et al. set in Norman, it's good.

2. Run defense. Over the past three weeks, OU has allowed 7.2 yards per carry (dead last in FBS at 131st) and a 53% success rate (126th). Worse, it has been beaten by three different types of run games. Kansas State's zone-read game produced 100-yard performances for both quarterback Adrian Martinez (148 yards and four scores) and back Deuce Vaughn (116 yards). TCU offered more spread and speed, and four Horned Frogs backs combined for 242 yards (8.3 per carry) while quarterback Max Duggan ripped off a 67-yard sprint for good measure. Texas offered no run threat whatsoever from the quarterback position, but Longhorns backs, led by Bijan Robinson, still had 279 yards (5.8 per carry).

Mind you, the pass defense hasn't covered itself in glory, either. But opponents have been able to pass only when they want to because the run is always there.

3. Defensive disruption. It vanished overnight. The Sooners recorded 13 sacks among 32 tackles for loss in their first three games; in their past three games: one and 12, respectively. Linemen Reggie Grimes II, Ethan Downs, Jalen Redmond, Isaiah Coe and Jonah Laulu had 16.5 TFLs in the first three games, and have four since. There is no push against the run, and with opponents never behind schedule, pass-rushing opportunities have vanished as well. The Sooners have been average on third-and-long (33% conversion rate, 79th in FBS) but an absolute sieve in shorter distances (77% conversion rate on third-and-6 or less, 125th).

Disruption was the one thing former defensive coordinator Alex Grinch was guaranteed to create, albeit at the cost of allowing lots of big plays. OU is now giving up as many big plays as it ever has, but with no havoc in return. While plenty of first-year coaches leaned heavily on the portal to prop up weak units, Venables brought in six defensive transfers, four from Group of 5 schools, and none have made significant contributions. One, linebacker T.D. Roof, is missing the season with injury, which has contributed to some massive issues in linebacker depth. If it seems like there are no linebackers on the field when opposing running backs are cutting untouched into the second level of the defense, that is more correct than it should be.

History suggests it's a long road back to respectability for the Sooners. (That has to be the first time I've ever typed that sentence.) Worse, there might be even more nefarious forces at work.

Scott Frost's legacy might extend to schools at which he hasn't even coached!

 

 

2 minutes ago, Fud said:

Bill Connelly on OU

  Reveal hidden contents

What on earth has happened to Oklahoma?

Texas 49, Oklahoma 0

It's difficult to underachieve against the spread for a particular period of time because the books adjust. If a team is worse than expected, the bar will keep being lowered until equilibrium is found.

Sometimes, however, a collapse comes so swiftly that it takes a while to find equilibrium. Sometimes you pull a John Mackovic. Or a Turner Gill.

Which brings us to Oklahoma.

Largest underachievement vs. the spread in a three-game span for a once-ranked team, last 30 years:

1. 1997 Texas (-110.5 points)

2. 2011 Texas Tech (-107.5)

3. 1999 UCLA (-101.5)

4. 2005 Colorado (-99.5)

5. 2022 Oklahoma (-98)

Having posted SP+ projections against the lines for about a decade now, I can confidently say that the books are smarter than they've ever been. The lines are extraordinarily hard to beat in volume, even compared to just a few years ago. And they have not been able to keep up with the velocity of Oklahoma's collapse.

Just three weeks ago, Brent Venables' first Sooners team was 3-0 and coming off of a rousing rivalry win at Nebraska. Favored by 10.5 points, the Sooners had won by a 49-14 margin, and they were 13.5-point home favorites against a Kansas State team that had just lost to Tulane.

• Sept. 24: Kansas State (+13.5) 41, Oklahoma 34

• Oct. 1: TCU (+5) 55, Oklahoma 24

• Oct. 8: Texas (-7.5) 49, Oklahoma 0

Expected scoring margin for Oklahoma in these games: plus-11. Actual scoring margin: minus-87.

EDITOR'S PICKS

• 

  Alabama, Georgia, Tennessee show why college football still runs through the SEC

  1dDavid M. Hale
• 

  Bowl projections: How high do UCLA, TCU and Tennessee climb?

  17hKyle Bonagura and Mark Schlabach
• 

  A historic loss: Numbers behind Texas' rout of OU

  2dJeremy Willis

We can tell how uniquely bad this stretch has been from the company OU is currently keeping. In the past three decades, only four once-ranked teams have underachieved by more over a three-game span. Two of them fired their coaches (1997 Texas, 2005 Colorado), and the other two probably should have. Bob Toledo survived a 4-7 collapse at UCLA in 1999 because he was coming off back-to-back top-10 finishes. But he went just 20-15 over the next three seasons and was fired. Tommy Tuberville and Texas Tech, meanwhile, pulled the same act the following season: The Red Raiders started 6-1, then lost four of five before Tuberville left for Cincinnati.

In all four of these instances, the coaches had been in their jobs for a while, and the sudden collapses were signs of an ending, either soon or on the horizon.

If we focus specifically on teams that collapse in their head coach's first seasons, things get much, much darker.

Largest underachievement vs. the spread in a three-game span for a first-year coach, past 30 years:

1. Turner Gill, 2010 Kansas (-109)

2. Brian Knorr, 2001 Ohio (-101.5)

3. Vic Koenning, 2000 Wyoming (-98.5)

4. Brent Venables, 2022 Oklahoma (-98)

5. Paul Wulff, 2008 Washington State (-94.5)

6. Ron Dickerson, 1993 Temple (-91)

The five names surrounding Venables' are five of the least successful hires college football has seen in that time span. Those coaches went a combined 38-170 -- the equivalent of 2-10 seasons ad infinitum. None won more than four games in a season.

Granted, none of these men were coaching Oklahoma, either. Those five poor individuals were taking on some of the hardest jobs in the country, and while they performed terribly, the floor in Norman -- where the Sooners have finished under .500 just five times since World War II -- is quite a bit higher.

Still, inclusion on these lists should ring serious alarm bells. There are really no examples of a team collapsing like this and recovering in a short amount of time. If OU is to become the first, the three main sources of collapse must rebound immediately.

1. Quarterback play. This one will be the easiest to fix, if only because Dillon Gabriel is expected back soon. The UCF transfer was still in the concussion protocol and wasn't cleared to play against Texas, and wow, have his replacements proven unready.

In 34 pass attempts since Gabriel was injured against TCU, Davis Beville has gained just 55 net yards -- 88 gained from 13-for-28 passing, minus 33 yards from six sacks -- and thrown an interception. Adjusted Net Yards per Attempt (ANY/A) is a per-attempt average that accounts for sacks and applies 20-yard bonuses for touchdowns and 45-yard penalties for interceptions; Gabriel is averaging 9.9 ANY/A, Beville 0.3. A decent case could be made that OU's offense was at its best Saturday when tight end Brayden Willis was behind center as a Wildcat QB.

Oklahoma fans have been clamoring for an appearance from either third-stringer General Booty -- a favorite of the college football internet world for very obvious reasons -- or blue-chip freshman Nick Evers, who threw a single incompletion against Texas. The fact that Venables and offensive coordinator Jeff Lebby determined Beville was their best option, however, doesn't suggest a particularly high ceiling for an alternate move.

Again, Gabriel should return soon, potentially against Kansas this coming weekend. He's 23rd in Total QBR, and even if that's not quite the standard Baker Mayfield, et al. set in Norman, it's good.

2. Run defense. Over the past three weeks, OU has allowed 7.2 yards per carry (dead last in FBS at 131st) and a 53% success rate (126th). Worse, it has been beaten by three different types of run games. Kansas State's zone-read game produced 100-yard performances for both quarterback Adrian Martinez (148 yards and four scores) and back Deuce Vaughn (116 yards). TCU offered more spread and speed, and four Horned Frogs backs combined for 242 yards (8.3 per carry) while quarterback Max Duggan ripped off a 67-yard sprint for good measure. Texas offered no run threat whatsoever from the quarterback position, but Longhorns backs, led by Bijan Robinson, still had 279 yards (5.8 per carry).

Mind you, the pass defense hasn't covered itself in glory, either. But opponents have been able to pass only when they want to because the run is always there.

3. Defensive disruption. It vanished overnight. The Sooners recorded 13 sacks among 32 tackles for loss in their first three games; in their past three games: one and 12, respectively. Linemen Reggie Grimes II, Ethan Downs, Jalen Redmond, Isaiah Coe and Jonah Laulu had 16.5 TFLs in the first three games, and have four since. There is no push against the run, and with opponents never behind schedule, pass-rushing opportunities have vanished as well. The Sooners have been average on third-and-long (33% conversion rate, 79th in FBS) but an absolute sieve in shorter distances (77% conversion rate on third-and-6 or less, 125th).

Disruption was the one thing former defensive coordinator Alex Grinch was guaranteed to create, albeit at the cost of allowing lots of big plays. OU is now giving up as many big plays as it ever has, but with no havoc in return. While plenty of first-year coaches leaned heavily on the portal to prop up weak units, Venables brought in six defensive transfers, four from Group of 5 schools, and none have made significant contributions. One, linebacker T.D. Roof, is missing the season with injury, which has contributed to some massive issues in linebacker depth. If it seems like there are no linebackers on the field when opposing running backs are cutting untouched into the second level of the defense, that is more correct than it should be.

History suggests it's a long road back to respectability for the Sooners. (That has to be the first time I've ever typed that sentence.) 

 

beat me by <1 min haha

[quigley 1560]

Texas was the best team on the field last week, and OU was the worst.

[AP101S 1480]

2 hours ago, Fud said:

Bill Connelly on OU

  Reveal hidden contents

What on earth has happened to Oklahoma?

Texas 49, Oklahoma 0

It's difficult to underachieve against the spread for a particular period of time because the books adjust. If a team is worse than expected, the bar will keep being lowered until equilibrium is found.

Sometimes, however, a collapse comes so swiftly that it takes a while to find equilibrium. Sometimes you pull a John Mackovic. Or a Turner Gill.

Which brings us to Oklahoma.

Largest underachievement vs. the spread in a three-game span for a once-ranked team, last 30 years:

1. 1997 Texas (-110.5 points)

2. 2011 Texas Tech (-107.5)

3. 1999 UCLA (-101.5)

4. 2005 Colorado (-99.5)

5. 2022 Oklahoma (-98)

Having posted SP+ projections against the lines for about a decade now, I can confidently say that the books are smarter than they've ever been. The lines are extraordinarily hard to beat in volume, even compared to just a few years ago. And they have not been able to keep up with the velocity of Oklahoma's collapse.

Just three weeks ago, Brent Venables' first Sooners team was 3-0 and coming off of a rousing rivalry win at Nebraska. Favored by 10.5 points, the Sooners had won by a 49-14 margin, and they were 13.5-point home favorites against a Kansas State team that had just lost to Tulane.

• Sept. 24: Kansas State (+13.5) 41, Oklahoma 34

• Oct. 1: TCU (+5) 55, Oklahoma 24

• Oct. 8: Texas (-7.5) 49, Oklahoma 0

Expected scoring margin for Oklahoma in these games: plus-11. Actual scoring margin: minus-87.

EDITOR'S PICKS

• 

  Alabama, Georgia, Tennessee show why college football still runs through the SEC

  1dDavid M. Hale
• 

  Bowl projections: How high do UCLA, TCU and Tennessee climb?

  17hKyle Bonagura and Mark Schlabach
• 

  A historic loss: Numbers behind Texas' rout of OU

  2dJeremy Willis

We can tell how uniquely bad this stretch has been from the company OU is currently keeping. In the past three decades, only four once-ranked teams have underachieved by more over a three-game span. Two of them fired their coaches (1997 Texas, 2005 Colorado), and the other two probably should have. Bob Toledo survived a 4-7 collapse at UCLA in 1999 because he was coming off back-to-back top-10 finishes. But he went just 20-15 over the next three seasons and was fired. Tommy Tuberville and Texas Tech, meanwhile, pulled the same act the following season: The Red Raiders started 6-1, then lost four of five before Tuberville left for Cincinnati.

In all four of these instances, the coaches had been in their jobs for a while, and the sudden collapses were signs of an ending, either soon or on the horizon.

If we focus specifically on teams that collapse in their head coach's first seasons, things get much, much darker.

Largest underachievement vs. the spread in a three-game span for a first-year coach, past 30 years:

1. Turner Gill, 2010 Kansas (-109)

2. Brian Knorr, 2001 Ohio (-101.5)

3. Vic Koenning, 2000 Wyoming (-98.5)

4. Brent Venables, 2022 Oklahoma (-98)

5. Paul Wulff, 2008 Washington State (-94.5)

6. Ron Dickerson, 1993 Temple (-91)

The five names surrounding Venables' are five of the least successful hires college football has seen in that time span. Those coaches went a combined 38-170 -- the equivalent of 2-10 seasons ad infinitum. None won more than four games in a season.

Granted, none of these men were coaching Oklahoma, either. Those five poor individuals were taking on some of the hardest jobs in the country, and while they performed terribly, the floor in Norman -- where the Sooners have finished under .500 just five times since World War II -- is quite a bit higher.

Still, inclusion on these lists should ring serious alarm bells. There are really no examples of a team collapsing like this and recovering in a short amount of time. If OU is to become the first, the three main sources of collapse must rebound immediately.

1. Quarterback play. This one will be the easiest to fix, if only because Dillon Gabriel is expected back soon. The UCF transfer was still in the concussion protocol and wasn't cleared to play against Texas, and wow, have his replacements proven unready.

In 34 pass attempts since Gabriel was injured against TCU, Davis Beville has gained just 55 net yards -- 88 gained from 13-for-28 passing, minus 33 yards from six sacks -- and thrown an interception. Adjusted Net Yards per Attempt (ANY/A) is a per-attempt average that accounts for sacks and applies 20-yard bonuses for touchdowns and 45-yard penalties for interceptions; Gabriel is averaging 9.9 ANY/A, Beville 0.3. A decent case could be made that OU's offense was at its best Saturday when tight end Brayden Willis was behind center as a Wildcat QB.

Oklahoma fans have been clamoring for an appearance from either third-stringer General Booty -- a favorite of the college football internet world for very obvious reasons -- or blue-chip freshman Nick Evers, who threw a single incompletion against Texas. The fact that Venables and offensive coordinator Jeff Lebby determined Beville was their best option, however, doesn't suggest a particularly high ceiling for an alternate move.

Again, Gabriel should return soon, potentially against Kansas this coming weekend. He's 23rd in Total QBR, and even if that's not quite the standard Baker Mayfield, et al. set in Norman, it's good.

2. Run defense. Over the past three weeks, OU has allowed 7.2 yards per carry (dead last in FBS at 131st) and a 53% success rate (126th). Worse, it has been beaten by three different types of run games. Kansas State's zone-read game produced 100-yard performances for both quarterback Adrian Martinez (148 yards and four scores) and back Deuce Vaughn (116 yards). TCU offered more spread and speed, and four Horned Frogs backs combined for 242 yards (8.3 per carry) while quarterback Max Duggan ripped off a 67-yard sprint for good measure. Texas offered no run threat whatsoever from the quarterback position, but Longhorns backs, led by Bijan Robinson, still had 279 yards (5.8 per carry).

Mind you, the pass defense hasn't covered itself in glory, either. But opponents have been able to pass only when they want to because the run is always there.

3. Defensive disruption. It vanished overnight. The Sooners recorded 13 sacks among 32 tackles for loss in their first three games; in their past three games: one and 12, respectively. Linemen Reggie Grimes II, Ethan Downs, Jalen Redmond, Isaiah Coe and Jonah Laulu had 16.5 TFLs in the first three games, and have four since. There is no push against the run, and with opponents never behind schedule, pass-rushing opportunities have vanished as well. The Sooners have been average on third-and-long (33% conversion rate, 79th in FBS) but an absolute sieve in shorter distances (77% conversion rate on third-and-6 or less, 125th).

Disruption was the one thing former defensive coordinator Alex Grinch was guaranteed to create, albeit at the cost of allowing lots of big plays. OU is now giving up as many big plays as it ever has, but with no havoc in return. While plenty of first-year coaches leaned heavily on the portal to prop up weak units, Venables brought in six defensive transfers, four from Group of 5 schools, and none have made significant contributions. One, linebacker T.D. Roof, is missing the season with injury, which has contributed to some massive issues in linebacker depth. If it seems like there are no linebackers on the field when opposing running backs are cutting untouched into the second level of the defense, that is more correct than it should be.

History suggests it's a long road back to respectability for the Sooners. (That has to be the first time I've ever typed that sentence.) 

 

Other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?

[Tree Fidy 1176]

1 hour ago, quigley said:

Texas was the best team on the field last week, and OU was the worst.

The fact that aggy is up and to the right of Bama and still lost is hilarious.

[Sandbagging Steve 982]

On 10/10/2022 at 7:48 AM, Fud said:

Bill Connelly on OU

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Sometimes, however, a collapse comes so swiftly that it takes a while to find equilibrium. Sometimes you pull a John Mackovic. Or a Turner Gill.

Largest underachievement vs. the spread in a three-game span for a once-ranked team, last 30 years:

1. 1997 Texas (-110.5 points)

 

 

[Hookem2147 21194]

Tom Loy for Notre Dame 247 said ND has been in contact with Jackson Arnold and there’s a chance he visits for the Clemson game next month.

[ClubWhatever 12120]

Slow motion “o o o f f “

[Sabalo 994]

9 minutes ago, Hookem2147 said:

Tom Loy for Notre Dame 247 said ND has been in contact with Jackson Arnold and there’s a chance he visits for the Clemson game next month.

Ousux but fuck notre dame. How in the hell do they have 4 of the top 50 kids in Texas comitted?

 

[Burt Macklin 19020]

11 minutes ago, Hookem2147 said:

Tom Loy for Notre Dame 247 said ND has been in contact with Jackson Arnold and there’s a chance he visits for the Clemson game next month.

I can’t see OU hanging on to him, and I’d rather he go to ND than aggy, so this seems like a positive development. 

[ChiTownDoc 21143]

Burn it all down.  Bring on Urbs.  Or fat fuck Heupel.  Or Mack.   Who cares

[Burt Macklin 19020]

6 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

Burn it all down.  Bring on Urbs.  Or fat fuck Heupel.  Or Mack.   Who cares

I know a guy whose had a 13 win season and won 2 NY 6 bowls in the past 7 years that would be a perfect fit for your school. 

[Funk Doctor Spock 12177]

So we gettin Vasek. 

[JOSEYWALES66 1801]

1 hour ago, Hookem2147 said:

Tom Loy for Notre Dame 247 said ND has been in contact with Jackson Arnold and there’s a chance he visits for the Clemson game next month.

He’s over rated.  Don’t care if he goes to OU. 

But fuck ND too.  
 

[Getafix 28561]

 

OU update on Arnold (and A&M 😂)

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

[Funk Doctor Spock 12177]

1 hour ago, JOSEYWALES66 said:

He’s over rated.  Don’t care if he goes to OU. 

But fuck ND too.  
 

Thank you. I've wanted to say the same thing. Dude is vastly overrated 

[gmr548 16576]

I know a guy whose had a 13 win season and won 2 NY 6 bowls in the past 7 years that would be a perfect fit for your school. 

I’d actually have very little interest in Herman at Oklahoma. Already had a rep for getting his team up for big games and you know he’d be game planning for Texas all offseason. They might not do anything of note but they would play out of their minds in the Cotton Bowl every year.

[quigley 1560]

13 hours ago, Burt Macklin said:

I can’t see OU hanging on to him, and I’d rather he go to ND than aggy, so this seems like a positive development. 

I don't know if Jackson Arnold is good or bad or in the middle. I do know that Tommy Rees (ND OC and QB coach) was bad as a QB. Ian Book is the best QB he's developed. So if Arnold aspires to that, good luck.

Gabriel will probably be around for another year at OU so the Sooners may be able to take a mulligan on QB recruiting 2023 if needed.

[WBT 20561]

Yeah if Gabriel comes back the depth chart should be in good shape clearly

[quigley 1560]

18 minutes ago, quigley said:

I don't know if Jackson Arnold is good or bad or in the middle. I do know that Tommy Rees (ND OC and QB coach) was bad as a QB. Ian Book is the best QB he's developed. So if Arnold aspires to that, good luck.

Gabriel will probably be around for another year at OU so the Sooners may be able to take a mulligan on QB recruiting 2023 if needed.

 

Timed out before edit completed -- sorry for double posting

I don't know if Jackson Arnold is good or bad or in the middle. I do know that Tommy Rees (ND OC and QB coach) was bad as a QB. Ian Book is the best QB he's developed. So if Arnold aspires to that, good luck.

Gabriel will probably be around for another year at OU so the Sooners may be able to take a mulligan on 2023 high school QB recruiting, if needed. Clearly, they'll need to be in the transfer portal looking for a backup for Gabriel.

Also, I fully expect OU to lose commits, but I'm more worried about DL and DB commits. It's clear to everyone that OU's coaches are unable to deploy the current players well.

[NoName 16351]

1 hour ago, quigley said:

I don't know if Jackson Arnold is good or bad or in the middle. I do know that Tommy Rees (ND OC and QB coach) was bad as a QB. Ian Book is the best QB he's developed. So if Arnold aspires to that, good luck.

Gabriel will probably be around for another year at OU so the Sooners may be able to take a mulligan on QB recruiting 2023 if needed.

after the game plan vs Texas can you blame the guy for sniffing around elsewhere?

...seriously, they had worst case a full week to prepare and THAT is what they came up with?

i hope he takes a visit, i would love to see Venables pressed on his dumb ass "take visits and get your offer yanked" policy. because it is dumb.

losing Arnold would be a tremendous loss in the class. dude has been locked in for 10 months and OU only has offers out to three QBs this cycle: Malachi Nelson (who Riley was chasing for years), Arnold and Jaden Rashada who also i am guessing was an offer by the prior staff. OU didn't make his final 7.

that is a QB room that greatly needs some high end talent. Gabriel and Beeville, Booty (didn't realize he was unranked entirely?), Evers (who was a good get but looks as skinny as Jerrod Heard at QB which isn't good) and Arnold.

a QB room without Gabriel AND Arnold is going to be very very not good.

  

1 hour ago, quigley said:

Also, I fully expect OU to lose commits, but I'm more worried about DL and DB commits. It's clear to everyone that OU's coaches are unable to deploy the current players well.

see i am interested to see how BV sells things. you guys are in a position where you can point to results and say "see, you can be the guy starting next year over these clowns" and offer early PT. Venables has a great history of being an excellent defensive coach and it isn't like that just goes away. guessing a lot of it is the kind of players he wants/recruits are not the kind of players the prior regime wanted/recruited on the defensive side.

Edited October 14, 2022 by NoName

[quigley 1560]

28 minutes ago, NoName said:

 

after the game plan vs Texas can you blame the guy for sniffing around elsewhere? No, I don't blame him. In fact, I said OU'd lose commits. It's only weird he'd chose ND because their QB development has been poor.

i hope he takes a visit, i would love to see Venables pressed on his dumb ass "take visits and get your offer yanked" policy. because it is dumb.

The policy, as I understand it, is that OU no longer considers you committed if you take other visits. I don't think they rescind the offer. That said, OU's policy is dumb. I said so several months ago and was surprised OU's gotten such a good class with it in place.

I fully expect Venables to keep his pledge to rescind the commitment. At the press conference after the UT game, Venables was visibly shaken and expressed some humility. That humility was gone by early this week based on his press conferences. So far, this staff appears uninterested in shifting directions.

losing Arnold would be a tremendous loss in the class. dude has been locked in for 10 months and OU only has offers out to three QBs this cycle: Malachi Nelson (who Riley was chasing for years), Arnold and Jaden Rashada who also i am guessing was an offer by the prior staff. OU didn't make his final 7.

Yes, Nelson and Rashada were Riley offers. Lebby has not pursued either. As I mentioned above, OU'll be looking in the portal, regardless of Arnold because it's stupid to expect a freshman to lead a Big 12 team.

that is a QB room that greatly needs some high end talent. Gabriel and Beeville, Booty (didn't realize he was unranked entirely?), Evers (who was a good get but looks as skinny as Jerrod Heard at QB which isn't good) and Arnold.   Evers looks like a basketball player in body-type and because he likes to throw bounce passes.

a QB room without Gabriel AND Arnold is going to be very very not good. Of course. That's the room we saw in Dallas.

see i am interested to see how BV sells things. you guys are in a position where you can point to results and say "see, you can be the guy starting next year over these clowns" and offer early PT. Venables has a great history of being an excellent defensive coach and it isn't like that just goes away. guessing a lot of it is the kind of players he wants/recruits are not the kind of players the prior regime wanted/recruited on the defensive side.

Good coaches are able to modify their scheme to their players skills. It's the old Bum Phillips' quote "Bryant can take his'n and beat your'n, and then he can turn around and take your'n and beat his'n." In basketball, Popovich is one the best at modifying his strategies to fit his teams (that is until he decided to ignore that 3-point line).

Venables, if he were the coach he was reputed to be, would've taught his principles while molding a better defense. Instead, he's beaten down his defense and put a poor product on the field. And yet he's convinced he's doing it the right way.

[NoName 16351]

21 minutes ago, quigley said:

after the game plan vs Texas can you blame the guy for sniffing around elsewhere? No, I don't blame him. In fact, I said OU'd lose commits. It's only weird he'd chose ND because their QB development has been poor.

i hope he takes a visit, i would love to see Venables pressed on his dumb ass "take visits and get your offer yanked" policy. because it is dumb.

The policy, as I understand it, is that OU no longer considers you committed if you take other visits. I don't think they rescind the offer. That said, OU's policy is dumb. I said so several months ago and was surprised OU's gotten such a good class with it in place.

I fully expect Venables to keep his pledge to rescind the commitment. At the press conference after the UT game, Venables was visibly shaken and expressed some humility. That humility was gone by early this week based on his press conferences. So far, this staff appears uninterested in shifting directions.

losing Arnold would be a tremendous loss in the class. dude has been locked in for 10 months and OU only has offers out to three QBs this cycle: Malachi Nelson (who Riley was chasing for years), Arnold and Jaden Rashada who also i am guessing was an offer by the prior staff. OU didn't make his final 7.

Yes, Nelson and Rashada were Riley offers. Lebby has not pursued either. As I mentioned above, OU'll be looking in the portal, regardless of Arnold because it's stupid to expect a freshman to lead a Big 12 team.

that is a QB room that greatly needs some high end talent. Gabriel and Beeville, Booty (didn't realize he was unranked entirely?), Evers (who was a good get but looks as skinny as Jerrod Heard at QB which isn't good) and Arnold.   Evers looks like a basketball player in body-type and because he likes to throw bounce passes.

a QB room without Gabriel AND Arnold is going to be very very not good. Of course. That's the room we saw in Dallas.

see i am interested to see how BV sells things. you guys are in a position where you can point to results and say "see, you can be the guy starting next year over these clowns" and offer early PT. Venables has a great history of being an excellent defensive coach and it isn't like that just goes away. guessing a lot of it is the kind of players he wants/recruits are not the kind of players the prior regime wanted/recruited on the defensive side.

Good coaches are able to modify their scheme to their players skills. It's the old Bum Phillips' quote "Bryant can take his'n and beat your'n, and then he can turn around and take your'n and beat his'n." In basketball, Popovich is one the best at modifying his strategies to fit his teams (that is until he decided to ignore that 3-point line).

Venables, if he were the coach he was reputed to be, would've taught his principles while molding a better defense. Instead, he's beaten down his defense and put a poor product on the field. And yet he's convinced he's doing it the right way.

i don't disagree with anything you said. good info on the commit stuff. thanks for sharing it.

[Plorant 799]

@quigley When can I order a 2022 Marvin Mims Jr.: 1 Catch -2 yards T-shirt?

[Vertigo 20276]

59 minutes ago, quigley said:

after the game plan vs Texas can you blame the guy for sniffing around elsewhere? No, I don't blame him. In fact, I said OU'd lose commits. It's only weird he'd chose ND because their QB development has been poor.

i hope he takes a visit, i would love to see Venables pressed on his dumb ass "take visits and get your offer yanked" policy. because it is dumb.

The policy, as I understand it, is that OU no longer considers you committed if you take other visits. I don't think they rescind the offer. That said, OU's policy is dumb. I said so several months ago and was surprised OU's gotten such a good class with it in place.

I fully expect Venables to keep his pledge to rescind the commitment. At the press conference after the UT game, Venables was visibly shaken and expressed some humility. That humility was gone by early this week based on his press conferences. So far, this staff appears uninterested in shifting directions.

losing Arnold would be a tremendous loss in the class. dude has been locked in for 10 months and OU only has offers out to three QBs this cycle: Malachi Nelson (who Riley was chasing for years), Arnold and Jaden Rashada who also i am guessing was an offer by the prior staff. OU didn't make his final 7.

Yes, Nelson and Rashada were Riley offers. Lebby has not pursued either. As I mentioned above, OU'll be looking in the portal, regardless of Arnold because it's stupid to expect a freshman to lead a Big 12 team.

that is a QB room that greatly needs some high end talent. Gabriel and Beeville, Booty (didn't realize he was unranked entirely?), Evers (who was a good get but looks as skinny as Jerrod Heard at QB which isn't good) and Arnold.   Evers looks like a basketball player in body-type and because he likes to throw bounce passes.

a QB room without Gabriel AND Arnold is going to be very very not good. Of course. That's the room we saw in Dallas.

see i am interested to see how BV sells things. you guys are in a position where you can point to results and say "see, you can be the guy starting next year over these clowns" and offer early PT. Venables has a great history of being an excellent defensive coach and it isn't like that just goes away. guessing a lot of it is the kind of players he wants/recruits are not the kind of players the prior regime wanted/recruited on the defensive side.

Good coaches are able to modify their scheme to their players skills. It's the old Bum Phillips' quote "Bryant can take his'n and beat your'n, and then he can turn around and take your'n and beat his'n." In basketball, Popovich is one the best at modifying his strategies to fit his teams (that is until he decided to ignore that 3-point line).

Venables, if he were the coach he was reputed to be, would've taught his principles while molding a better defense. Instead, he's beaten down his defense and put a poor product on the field. And yet he's convinced he's doing it the right way.

I do expect OU to hold on to Arnold. While I would be in for the lulz if he did decommit, he has to be thinking he could be a walk in starter next season, or at the very least the backup while learning on the job. Say what you want about Venables level of dumbassery, but the starting QB for OU still has some shine to it. I think they will lose some other guys, and the portal will be key for them this offseason, but there is still enough residual talent on the offensive side of the ball to be good enough to keep a guy like Arnold. 

If I were BV, I would be spinning the Texas team under Sark last year as proof that these things can turn quickly once you get a year to get things established. 

 

Edited October 14, 2022 by Vertigo

[quigley 1560]

20 minutes ago, Plorant said:

@quigley When can I order a 2022 Marvin Mims Jr.: 1 Catch -2 yards T-shirt?

He should print those, complete with a rendering of his one catch.

This is the poor guy's third year. When he was a frosh, he had Rattler closing the season strong and leading a top 3-4 team going into 2021 with classmate Caleb Williams in the bullpen.

Last Saturday, he was a blocking split end for a wildcat offense.

[Vertigo 20276]

1 minute ago, quigley said:

He should print those, complete with a rendering of his one catch.

This is the poor guy's third year. When he was a frosh, he had Rattler closing the season strong and leading a top 3-4 team going into 2021 with classmate Caleb Williams in the bullpen.

Last Saturday, he was a blocking split end for a wildcat offense.

He has got to be thinking: "I held off on entering the portal for this? FML"

[closetojumping 62557]

3 minutes ago, Vertigo said:

He has got to be thinking: "I held off on entering the portal for this? FML"

I asked around about Mims and no one has a strong opinion about whether he would consider Texas or not in the portal. I think the guy is a bad ass and if he went into the portal I hope Texas would make their pitch. I assume he’d wind up at USC. 

Edited October 14, 2022 by closetojumping

[quigley 1560]

8 minutes ago, Vertigo said:

I do expect OU to hold on to Arnold. While I would be in for the lulz if he did decommit, he has to be thinking he could be a walk in starter next season, or at the very least the backup while learning on the job. Say what you want about Venables level of dumbassery, but the starting QB for OU still has some shine to it. I think they will lose some other guys, and the portal will be key for them this offseason, but there is still enough residual talent on the offensive side of the ball to be good enough to keep a guy like Arnold. 

If I were BV, I would be spinning the Texas team under Sark last year as proof that these things can turn quickly once you get a year to get things established. 

 

If only...there are 2 big differences between OU's offensive and trajectory and UT's resurgence since last year:

1. OU's OL is getting worse. Lebby's scheme is supposed to be easier on OL, not harder. And this year, the OU is a step below last years, continuing the trend. This is on Bedenbaugh and Lebby.
2. It's very clear OU doesn't have a genius OC who scheme his team to easy yards and points. Lebby's probably above replacement level, but it's obvious he can't conjure up a strategy to take the load off of his QB.

[quigley 1560]

4 minutes ago, closetojumping said:

I asked around about Mims and no one has a strong opinion about whether he would consider Texas or not in the portal. I think the guy is a bad ass and if he went into the portal I hope Texas would make their pitch. I assume he’d wind up at USC. 

It's obvious Mim's good. I think he declares despite low numbers.

[Vertigo 20276]

16 minutes ago, closetojumping said:

I asked around about Mims and no one has a strong opinion about whether he would consider Texas or not in the portal. I think the guy is a bad ass and if he went into the portal I hope Texas would make their pitch. I assume he’d wind up at USC. 

Worthy, Mims, and Neyor would be a sight to behold next season with Quinn as the trigger man and Sanders at the TE. 

[ChiTownDoc 21143]

15 hours ago, Spider2YBanana said:

Thank you. I've wanted to say the same thing. Dude is vastly overrated 

This the Arch thread?  Sorry bit confused.  I’m drinking early. 

[NoName 16351]

44 minutes ago, quigley said:

If only...there are 2 big differences between OU's offensive and trajectory and UT's resurgence since last year:

1. OU's OL is getting worse. Lebby's scheme is supposed to be easier on OL, not harder. And this year, the OU is a step below last years, continuing the trend. This is on Bedenbaugh and Lebby.
2. It's very clear OU doesn't have a genius OC who scheme his team to easy yards and points. Lebby's probably above replacement level, but it's obvious he can't conjure up a strategy to take the load off of his QB.

Lebby since leaving Baylor has pretty consistently led top 15 OFEI teams. he is a good OC.

he just isn't as good as you guys last OC - which is a lot of the problem. he looks even worse when compared to Lincoln and how well he is doing this year (#5 OFEI team, but obviously with a very good QB)

Edited October 14, 2022 by NoName

[Chili dog 1787]

1 hour ago, Vertigo said:

I do expect OU to hold on to Arnold. While I would be in for the lulz if he did decommit, he has to be thinking he could be a walk in starter next season, or at the very least the backup while learning on the job. Say what you want about Venables level of dumbassery, but the starting QB for OU still has some shine to it. I think they will lose some other guys, and the portal will be key for them this offseason, but there is still enough residual talent on the offensive side of the ball to be good enough to keep a guy like Arnold. 

If I were BV, I would be spinning the Texas team under Sark last year as proof that these things can turn quickly once you get a year to get things established. 

 

At what point does his professional development become a concern? I wonder if Lane Kiffin or Kendall Briles are considering making a run at him. They should. 

Edited October 14, 2022 by Chili dog
Punctuation

[Chili dog 1787]

14 minutes ago, NoName said:

Lebby since leaving Baylor has pretty consistently led top 15 OFEI teams. he is a good OC.

he just isn't as good as you guys last OC - which is a lot of the problem. he looks even worse when compared to Lincoln and how well he is doing this year (#5 OFEI team, but obviously with a very good QB)

But who has he coached for? Kiffin’s offense is Kiffin’s. Who was the head coach at UCF? Frost or Huepel? I’m just not sure he was the reason the offenses were good. 

[Hiphopopotamos 20869]

6 minutes ago, Chili dog said:

But who has he coached for? Kiffin’s offense is Kiffin’s. Who was the head coach at UCF? Frost or Huepel? I’m just not sure he was the reason the offenses were good. 

Heupel.  This is the first time that fat bastard hasn't worked under an offensive genius (other than a 1yr stint with the 'Southeastern Fire') - and that offensive gameplan against Texas is what he came up with.

[Chili dog 1787]

Just now, Hiphopopotamos said:

Heupel.  This is the first time that fat bastard hasn't worked under an offensive genius (other than a 1yr stint with the 'Southeastern Fire') - and that offensive gameplan against Texas is what he came up with.

Yeah, that’s what I thought. He’s a fucking sycophant. He sucks. 

[Atticus 3973]

1 hour ago, Vertigo said:

I do expect OU to hold on to Arnold. While I would be in for the lulz if he did decommit, he has to be thinking he could be a walk in starter next season, or at the very least the backup while learning on the job. Say what you want about Venables level of dumbassery, but the starting QB for OU still has some shine to it. I think they will lose some other guys, and the portal will be key for them this offseason, but there is still enough residual talent on the offensive side of the ball to be good enough to keep a guy like Arnold. 

If I were BV, I would be spinning the Texas team under Sark last year as proof that these things can turn quickly once you get a year to get things established. 

 

Gabriel has two more years to play unless he retires due to concussions. I doubt Arnold would unseat him that quickly.  

[cafe society 2860]

36 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

This the Arch thread?  Sorry bit confused.  I’m drinking early. 

[Burt Macklin 19020]

51 minutes ago, NoName said:

Lebby since leaving Baylor has pretty consistently led top 15 OFEI teams. he is a good OC.

he just isn't as good as you guys last OC - which is a lot of the problem. he looks even worse when compared to Lincoln and how well he is doing this year (#5 OFEI team, but obviously with a very good QB)

Cmon man. You should be better than this. He was the OC under Heupel and Kiffin. Those weren’t his offenses. 

[Big Woodrows 4200]

Just now, Burt Macklin said:

Cmon man. You should be better than this. He was the OC under Heupel and Kiffin. Those weren’t his offenses. 

Remember when TFB reported that Ole Miss boosters would have preferred firing Kiffin and making Lebby HC last offseason?

[NoName 16351]

7 minutes ago, Burt Macklin said:

Cmon man. You should be better than this. He was the OC under Heupel and Kiffin. Those weren’t his offenses. 

i was just pointing out he has a good history BEFORE this year. honestly, the game plan vs Texas was horrific across the board. if the QB got hurt in Friday's practice, or had a scooter accident Thursday night after practice, i could understand it.

[Hornlover 8829]

16 minutes ago, NoName said:

i was just pointing out he has a good history BEFORE this year. honestly, the game plan vs Texas was horrific across the board. if the QB got hurt in Friday's practice, or had a scooter accident Thursday night after practice, i could understand it.

Maybe Lebby was planning all week with the assumption "Hey, we're OU. Of course we are going to throw the concussed qb out there. " But then found out Saturday morning that Gabriel refused to play?